Life-sized hot rod driven by 256 Lego pistons

[Meatman]

I have been unable to generate more than 8 bars with my home compressor, so i was never able to fully test the limits.

But the maximum that could happen is the air starting to escape through the rubber ring in the piston and through the swithc into the surroundings. No explosion would occur.

That is basically what I meant, the seals leaking. Do the little air hoses ever pop off or must they be glued down?

I found it funny when they said they didn't want to push it to far because of an "explosion"

I have been unable to generate more than 8 bars with my home compressor, so i was never able to fully test the limits.

What would this equal roughly in P.S.I. ?

Raul Oaida said to me, that in romania, the car went closer to 25mph,

I would really like to see a video of this. If this is true, I am sure that they have it.

[Tamas Juhasz]

In TLBC:

Their creation is powered by 256 LEGO pistons mounted within four enormous orbital engines fed by compressed air, with only the wheels and loaded components featuring non-LEGO construction.

The engine is awesome, but that's all. I even don't understand, why consider Lego builders great this car, if it's NOT a lego creation. Metal structure and metal loaded parts?? Then no sense of all. The thruth is, you can make a similar sized vehicle from 100% Lego parts, that would be great. But for those, a lot of engineering work would be needed. Wheels are one of the hardest parts only from Lego, but not impossible. Thinking outside of the box helps a lot. My only problem is with such a big project that I don't have tons of parts and time.

Many people will consider this a LEGO car which works, and life sized, even it's strongly a mixture of a metal car and Lego body & engine. They are so "humble" they call their own project superawesome: http://www.superawes...ject.com/about/

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mbmc

[JGW3000]

http://www.quadlock.com/about/unit_converter.htm

8 bar = 7.895 atm = 116.03 psia = 101.33 psig

There is no way any Lego pneumatic parts can hold that pressure, the lego manometer, part 64065, only goes to 4 bar (60 psig)

Another concern is at lower pressure, the air volumetric flow rate can get quite large, so amble diameter tubing will be needed from the compressed air cylinder, through all of the distribution manifolds, etc... to each of the pneumatic engine parts. Any idea how much air flow would be needed to supply this car?

[Tamas Juhasz]

The most unabashed LIE in their webpage:

"Working car made entirely out of lego, powered by air & reaching dizzying speeds of 30km/h"

"entirely"

There would be no problem, if they would describe this as a lego body and an LPE in a car frame, but they don't do this. Ridiculous.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mbmc

[Meatman]

http://www.quadlock....t_converter.htm

8 bar = 7.895 atm = 116.03 psia = 101.33 psig

There is no way any Lego pneumatic parts can hold that pressure, the lego manometer, part 64065, only goes to 4 bar (60 psig)

Another concern is at lower pressure, the air volumetric flow rate can get quite large, so amble diameter tubing will be needed from the compressed air cylinder, through all of the distribution manifolds, etc... to each of the pneumatic engine parts. Any idea how much air flow would be needed to supply this car?

I have a compressor in my garage that puts out 100 psi and I find it very very hard to believe that these small rubber tubes and seals in the Lego pneumatic pistons can come close to handling this type of pressure. 100 psi is serious pressure.

The most unabashed LIE in their webpage:

"Working car made entirely out of lego, powered by air & reaching dizzying speeds of 30km/h"

"entirely"

There would be no problem, if they would describe this as a lego body and an LPE in a car frame, but they don't do this. Ridiculous.

I feel this project was create for nothing but youtube hits with false advertisement.

[JGW3000]

I feel this project was create for nothing but youtube hits with false advertisement.

And to corner the market on yellow and black bricks

[nicjasno]

The black plastic tubes that i use are rated at 10 bar pressure.

That said, if you understand the laws of physics, you will know that when 8 bar enters the engine, it gets split. At best, 2 bars can reach one single cylinder in the I4 engine.

Since the engine is double acting, that means that all 4 cylinders do work at the same time, unlike in a 4 stroke inline 4 engine, where only 1 works at a time.

[Lipko]

That said, if you understand the laws of physics, you will know that when 8 bar enters the engine, it gets split. At best, 2 bars can reach one single cylinder in the I4 engine.

What do you mean by "split"? Divided? As far as I know, pressure is constant in a system if it's static. When the pistons are moving (not static state), then there can be some pressure loss due to the friction, but it's nothing like a split/divide.

[DrJB]

The black plastic tubes that i use are rated at 10 bar pressure.

That said, if you understand the laws of physics, you will know that when 8 bar enters the engine, it gets split. At best, 2 bars can reach one single cylinder in the I4 engine ...

I am not sure I agree here (and I do understand the laws of physics). Momentarily the pressure 'may' drop, but if the air-paths are open, the pressure quickly 'balances' to that in the tank. That is why the bigger the tank, the smoother the pneumatic engines will run.

The other challenge I see with such design is really the max air pressure the system can handle. The weakest is NOT the seal in the piston, but most likely the connection rubber tube to piston. I can easily make that connection 'pop' with a simple lego piston/pump. Unless, as someone mentioned above, the tubes were somehow 'glued' to the lego parts.

Again, my opinion? ... This is a fake ... possibly just something to attract 'investors'.

Edited December 19, 2013 by DrJB

[Blakbird]

Let's do some simple calculations and figure it out.

The inside diameter of a pneumatic cylinder is 36 LDraw units or 14.4mm. The outside diameter of a piston rod is 12 LDraw units or 4.8mm. The means that the available area for extending the piston is 162.86 mm^2 (1.6286 cm^2) and the area available for retracting the piston is 144.76 mm^2 (1.4476 cm^2). Let's assume that any given cylinder is fed a maximum of 2 bar of pressure (which is very generous). This is about 2.04 kg/cm^2. This means that the actuator can generate 3.32 kg (32.6 N) in compression and 2.95 kg (28.9 N) in tension. Respectable! (My own experiments with Lego pneumatic cylinders indicate that they can actually react about this much load without leaking, so let's use this as a baseline.)

An LPE Power engine uses a crankshaft with a throw of 1 stud = 20 LDU = 8 mm = 0.8 cm. An inline 4 at top dead center has 2 cylinders which aren't producing any torque. The other 2 are opposite: one pushing and one pulling. So the maximum amount of torque you could get out of an LPE Power inline 4 at any given instant is (32.6 N + 28.9 N)*0.8 cm = 49.2 N-cm. Note that the fact that this is a double acting engine almost doubles the amount of torque it can produce compared with a regular 2 stroke engine.

The video indicates that this car has 256 pneumatic cylinders, so that means it has a total of 64 inline 4 engines. Add them all up and you get 3148 N-cm of torque. For the Americans out there, this is 23.2 ft-lb of torque. Let's compare this with a pathetically underpowered road car. A Smart car is rated at about 92 N-m (68 ft-lb) of torque, so this Lego car makes 34% as much torque as a Smart car. If this is true, there is no reason it couldn't travel 25 kph on level ground.

Of course, all of this neglects friction and, more importantly, it neglects air distribution. The problem is that the volume of air that needs to be delivered to run an inline 4 at that pressure is considerable. Nijasno bores out the inlet ports of the actuators and the T-fittings and also uses larger tubing. This allows you to get enough air to one engine. However, if you look at the photos you'll see that all the engines in a given ring are running off of a single pneumatic hose! They are not split at the source so that each engine has an independent supply. Rather, each engine gets air only after the previous engine in the series has withdrawn its own air flow from the same line. This means that each of the 4 banks of engines (16 engines worth 64 cylinders) has to get its air from a single tiny pneumatic line. You'd need thousands of psi of pressure (hundreds of bar) to get that much flow. That much pneumatic pressure would be hugely dangerous. So I can believe the car from a strictly torque standpoint, but I am having a hard time imaging how the air distribution can be effective.

Personally, I don't think a purely Lego car is structurally possible. While burf has created a few wonders that will hold a human, they are very compact and the weight is distributed to the wheels very directly. Something shaped like a real car would simply not be anywhere near strong enough to support a human. Even if you were to add enough bricks to make it possible, it would be as heavy or heavier than a real car. The Lego sphere that Mythbusters built weighed thousands of pounds and it fell apart immediately when rolling. Granted this used studs and not Technic pins.

Edit: Despite all the skepticism, I don't want to forget to mention that this is really cool. Building a rotary LPE out of 64 inline 4's is awesome, regardless of whether or not it is strictly powering the car. Covering a metal car frame in Lego is also pretty cool. So kudos to the builders no matter what.

[LegoPanda]

now, who volunteers to make a power function or windstorms one

[Meatman]

Edit: Despite all the skepticism, I don't want to forget to mention that this is really cool. Building a rotary LPE out of 64 inline 4's is awesome, regardless of whether or not it is strictly powering the car. Covering a metal car frame in Lego is also pretty cool. So kudos to the builders no matter what.

So if I cover my car in Lego does that make it a Lego car?

[Ape Fight]

Crikey, there's a lot of grumbling about this!

I have no issue believing 256 Lego cylinders can power a light vehicle very slowly for a short distance.

Yeh, there'll be a non-Lego compressed air tank somewhere on this but how is that different from the batteries in a Power Functions powered MOC? It isn't. At all.

And sure, the frame is metal. But so are Lego's own models at Legoland.

It's damn cool and much props to the builders for designing and making something that no-one else has before. It seems there's a lot of miserable jealousy on Eurobricks Can't we just be happy that someone's taken Lego to new levels and is getting news coverage for their efforts (it's on the BBC homepage in the top 10 news stories today!).

I think it's ace, and the world (and Eurobricks) would be a lot nicer if people just congratulated one another rather than picking holes in others' achievements

[allanp]

Lego pneumatics powering a pretty much full size car? That's awesome any way you look at it!

Edited December 19, 2013 by allanp

[Lipko]

Well, Burf would be a bit rightfully jealous. And all other awesome builders who don't have the chance to get some attention outside of the tiny Technic community, because their creations are not "life sized", "1 ton", etc.

[Meatman]

Crikey, there's a lot of grumbling about this!

I have no issue believing 256 Lego cylinders can power a light vehicle very slowly for a short distance.

Yeh, there'll be a non-Lego compressed air tank somewhere on this but how is that different from the batteries in a Power Functions powered MOC? It isn't. At all.

And sure, the frame is metal. But so are Lego's own models at Legoland.

It's damn cool and much props to the builders for designing and making something that no-one else has before. It seems there's a lot of miserable jealousy on Eurobricks Can't we just be happy that someone's taken Lego to new levels and is getting news coverage for their efforts (it's on the BBC homepage in the top 10 news stories today!).

I think it's ace, and the world (and Eurobricks) would be a lot nicer if people just congratulated one another rather than picking holes in others' achievements

Lego's large models at Legoland are also built with metal frames for safety issues, not to mention they have to stand the tests of the weather. This thing just has to roll down the street.

And you are missing the key point here which is why there is so much grumbling. They are promoting this as a "Car built entirely of Lego" and that just isn't the truth. It has nothing to do with being jealous, more so with being deceptive on their part and they are being called out on it. You can't come along and advertise something and then when people start asking questions you make excuses and get upset.

There are actually naive people making comments around the world that these people have revolutionized the auto industry.

[Lakop]

I get what they are trying to do but somehow it doesn't captivate me like other large models we've heard of and seen.

H

[nicjasno]

The hoses i use are polyetilene and they do NOT pop out. There's a reason i don't use simple lego silicone hoses. :P

Also... Blackbird is amazing as always. Great explanation.

[Tamas Juhasz]

Yeh, there'll be a non-Lego compressed air tank somewhere on this but how is that different from the batteries in a Power Functions powered MOC? It isn't. At all.

And sure, the frame is metal. But so are Lego's own models at Legoland.

It's damn cool and much props to the builders for designing and making something that no-one else has before. It seems there's a lot of miserable jealousy on Eurobricks Can't we just be happy that someone's taken Lego to new levels and is getting news coverage for their efforts (it's on the BBC homepage in the top 10 news stories today!).

I think it's ace, and the world (and Eurobricks) would be a lot nicer if people just congratulated one another rather than picking holes in others' achievements

You didn't get it. There would be absolutely no problem, if they wouldn't advertise it as "life sized car made entirely out of Lego". Where do you see in the BBC article written, it has a metal frame/metal loaded parts? It's a normal car, covered with Lego and driven by an LPE. Why should be someone jealousy? Rather than that, people can be feel scammed. Every people who reads the article, think, it's full Lego. That's the problem.

If it were a big ship (like VFracingteam's mocs), or a huge moc car fully made of Lego, Lego technic, then I will happily congratulate them. As I said before, the 256 piston engine is genial, but that's all in this car which is a Lego technic construction.

This forum is for conversations, pros and contras. Permanent gratulation for everything wouldn't be so interesting.

Lipko and Meatman wrote the essence:

"Well, Burf would be a bit rightfully jealous. And all other awesome builders who don't have the chance to get some attention outside of the tiny Technic community, because their creations are not "life sized", "1 ton", etc."

"They are promoting this as a "Car built entirely of Lego" and that just isn't the truth. It has nothing to do with being jealous, more so with being deceptive on their part and they are being called out on it. You can't come along and advertise something and then when people start asking questions you make excuses and get upset."

Edited December 19, 2013 by Mbmc

[Blakbird]

So if I cover my car in Lego does that make it a Lego car?

No, but it would make your car pretty cool.

And you are missing the key point here which is why there is so much grumbling. They are promoting this as a "Car built entirely of Lego" and that just isn't the truth. It has nothing to do with being jealous, more so with being deceptive on their part and they are being called out on it. You can't come along and advertise something and then when people start asking questions you make excuses and get upset.

To be fair, did the builders ever actually claim that the car was entirely Lego, or is it only the people writing the news articles who are getting it wrong? Reporters get everything wrong.

Also... Blackbird is amazing as always. Great explanation.

Thanks!

[Saberwing40k]

You know, this thread gave me an absolutely terrible idea: What if you took a chassis, like from an old Lotus, and built a Lego Technic body for that?

To be fair, did the builders ever actually claim that the car was entirely Lego, or is it only the people writing the news articles who are getting it wrong? Reporters get everything wrong.

Thanks!

I would not be at all surprised if that were the case.

[Meatman]

To be fair, did the builders ever actually claim that the car was entirely Lego, or is it only the people writing the news articles who are getting it wrong? Reporters get everything wrong.

Thanks!

The problem is that they don't say anywhere that any part of it is not made from Lego when they give out the specs for it, so that is obviously what they want people to believe. Only when questioned about the frame and other components do they admit that metal was used because it had to be.

Super Awesome Micro Project Factoids

• More than 500,000 LEGO pieces were used.
  
• The car engine is made from standard Lego pieces and runs on air!
  
• The engine has four orbital engines and a total of 256 pistons.
  
• Top speed is not very fast, around 20-30km (We were scared of a lego explosion so we drove it slowly)
  
• It was built in Romania and shipped to a secret location in suburban Melbourne.
  
• It’s a Hot Rod design, mainly because hot rods are cool.
  

[Ape Fight]

The problem is that they don't say anywhere that any part of it is not made from Lego when they give out the specs for it, so that is obviously what they want people to believe. Only when questioned about the frame and other components do they admit that metal was used because it had to be.

The very first sentence in their 'About' section reads:

Super Awesome Micro Project is: A car made of Lego, that drives, has an engine made from Lego which runs on air. (wheels and some load bearing elements are non-Lego)

With that I'll take a back seat on EB - I think it's such a shame that there's so much rife jealousy here towards others' success. They're not conning anyone, because

a) it says there's non-Lego involved in the construction right there in the very first sentence, and

b) even if they didn't say there was non-Lego involved (which they did), they built it for FUN. They're not trying to sell it to someone under false pretences like a guy with a fake Rolex, and they are perfectly entitled not to give a stuff about the purist rules set out in a little corner of the internet by people they've never met.

This isn't going to win me any friends here, but meh, lighten up people. It's Lego (mostly), not the use of chemical weapons in Syria. I'd be bloody proud if I made it and I bet anyone here would too. Except I didn't make it, and nor did anyone else here, and that to me, seems to be the problem.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Ape Fight

[Paul Boratko]

The very first sentence in their 'About' section reads:

Super Awesome Micro Project is: A car made of Lego, that drives, has an engine made from Lego which runs on air. (wheels and some load bearing elements are non-Lego)

For what it's worth, I think that part may have been recently added to clear up any confusion as to what all materials were being used because of so many questions at youtube.... I don't remember that being there when this project first hit the net... I was like the first person to comment on it at youtube and my comment was "This will have a million views soon"

I don't think there is jealousy being shown here, instead a bit of dissapointment... I for one really wanted to see an all Lego built car actually drive someday...

Can anyone find a backer with about $100,000..? I bet a few of us here could team up and do it...

[Blakbird]

Personally, I don't really care if the car is all Lego or not, I just want to know a lot about the engine and how he made it work. Hopefully more information will be posted.