SNOT in 1983

[Hobbes]

While browsing the instruction scans on brickfactory I stumbled upon an alternate model of one of the waggons of 7727 and noticed that it used SNOT:

(Click thumb for larger picture)

I know that that "Legal techniques" builders guide mentions the USS Constellation as an example which is a set from the late 1970s. But I don't really consider what they used ("sticking" a gray 1x2 plate between two studs) SNOT as we know it today. This waggon, though, IMO clearly is SNOT.

Just wanted to point it out since I didn't expect to see something like that in a 1980s set...

Anybody know of anything SNOTty that old? Or older?

[Mister Phes]

I know very little about SNOTing for I am not very SNOTy, but I'll comment anyway.

The peices without the studs on top don't have any studs whatsoever, and to be a true SNOT design wouldn't it be required to have pieces with studs, but the studs were not on top?

Errr... Did that make sense? *wacko*

[Lasse D]

That was the very set that introduced me for alternative building techniques back in the day. :-$

If I remember correctly, many alternative models (especially Technic models) in those days were a little more daring, so to say, than the primary models, but I can't recall any good examples of SNOT-techniques right now.

[Hobbes]

The peices without the studs on top don't have any studs whatsoever, and to be a true SNOT design wouldn't it be required to have pieces with studs, but the studs were not on top?

Errr... Did that make sense? *wacko*

It did. But I think SNOT refers to the technique, i.e. using bricks so that you can attach other bricks at angles other than "from above".

Did that makes? *wacko*

[simonwillems]

...using bricks so that you can attach other bricks at angles other than "from above".

If you go by this definition there are lots of other sets that use the same technique from the beginning of the eighties, because that would mean that this cute little car is made with SNOT techniques as well.

After all the headlights and taillights are attached at angles other than from above, and this car is from 1980. 8-|

So any set using this piece is made with SNOT techniques?

[Hobbes]

So any set using this piece is made with SNOT techniques?

Funny, five minutes ago when I built the carriage of my 6379 Riding Stable I thought the same thing. By that definition - yes, SNOT has been around since this piece has been :-$

I was just surprised about how the headlight piece was used in the waggon design (tilted 90 degrees)...

[xenologer]

alternate model of one of the waggons of 7727 and noticed that it used SNOT:

Really awesome the way they used it to mount those sliding doors there.

I'm going to have to seriously think about using that kind of door (mounted sideways like that) in a Space MOC sometime. A nice thin airlock sliding door, a roof hatch in a cargo bay, maybe a bomb bay door in the bottom of a bomber....

Plus, those sliding doors are now readily available with the new LDD 2.0 update :-)

[Commander Wolf]

Lego's already made a space set with a horizontal sliding door. If you recall: 6973

[Mr Hobbles]

Just curious, but the brick that's added in step 10, won't that stop the doors from sliding in and out? Doesn't that defeat the point, ie. a retracting cover?

[xenologer]

Maybe they want to keep the doors from slipping open while its racing along the tracks? Look nice more than be usable?

I notice a latch on the door, do they click shut?

[ApophisV]

Funny, five minutes ago when I built the carriage of my 6379 Riding Stable I thought the same thing.

Ha Ha! Hobbes plays with horses!!!! :-P ;-)

(Come on, better one stupid post from time to time instead of no signs of life! X-D )

[Hinckley]

I know very little about SNOTing for I am not very SNOTy, but I'll comment anyway.

The peices without the studs on top don't have any studs whatsoever, and to be a true SNOT design wouldn't it be required to have pieces with studs, but the studs were not on top?

Errr... Did that make sense? *wacko*

Actually I see four pieces with studs, with the Studs Not on Top: the rail plates holding the doors in place. Plus there are eight headlight bricks fastened headlight side up...

*wacko*

[maiq the liar]

Legal building guide? can i get a link?

[Freddie]

Legal building guide? can i get a link?

Here, found in this blog by the very same guy who designed the Caf

[Mister Phes]

It did. But I think SNOT refers to the technique, i.e. using bricks so that you can attach other bricks at angles other than "from above".

So these Fabuland roofs dating back to 1982 are officials SNOTs then?

Did that makes? *wacko*

Did that make what? X-D

[Hobbes]

Did that make what? X-D

... sense...

I really should finish typing before I submit a post... *wacko*

[Commander Wolf]

So these Fabuland roofs dating back to 1982 are officials SNOTs then?

Did that make what? X-D

Well, as there are no studs on the roof, there are no studs to not be on top, so I would say it's not SNOT.

[blueandwhite]

People are taking this thing a bit too literally.

As far as my understanding goes, SNOT doesn't require studs of any kind. It is simply aligning the brick in a different direction, allowing for connections at different angles (as opposed to vertically). The headlight brick is simply the most basic method of inducing SNOT-based design, allthough there are countless other bricks which can be used to change the vertical alignment of studs. It has been used in a number of rudementry ways for years. It is only in recent years however, that we have seen a true emphasis on SNOT-based design from LEGO themselves, with models that have studs aligned in a multitude of directions (Death Star, Star Destroyer etc.).

[BerndDasBrot]

sorry that I revived this thread but it fits very well:

It already uses the fence-SNOT-technique! Could be from the seventies.

(Once again sorry, if you already know about this one, but I searched the forum and found this topic...)

[Hinckley]

I'm all for reviving topics with something that's relevant, so no need to apologize. *sweet*

I haven't looked for long, but I can't quite figure out how that particular SNOT technique was accomplished. Any ideas?

[BerndDasBrot]

I'm glad to hear that!

If I got you right, the render will help:

[simonwillems]

That's an interesting contraption, and that sure is the SNOT principle.

It does not work though, there's no lead leading from the battery box to the engine.... *sweet*

[CP5670]

Here, found in this blog by the very same guy who designed the Caf� Corner.

It truly is worth a read, lots of interesting stuff in that presentation.

This is very cool. I've actually seen a number of those illegal techniques on official sets (often on the extra models on the back of the box), so they must have become more stringent with it only recently. I tend to be quite picky about this in my MOCs too and don't use any connections that could weaken the model. The one on pages 5 and 6 seems okay to me though; the "illegal" one actually makes the assembly stronger without putting stress on anything.

The Super Street Sensation uses two particularly bad illegal connections, with a 1x5 Technic plate connected to a 1x5 liftarm. I got this set when it came out, and to this day I haven't been able to separate those pieces. :-P

There are also some models that don't have anything illegal, but still have pieces arranged in a way that damages them over time. The 8466 4x4 Off Roader is one example, where the suspension isn't quite strong enough to support the weight of the model and the front shocks become bent over time. This is easy to fix by adding a second yellow shock on each wheel.

[Hinckley]

I'm glad to hear that!

If I got you right, the render will help:

I just had one of those X-O moments. I never thought of using a fence for SNOT. I'm sure I've seen it used or in a SNOT suggestion thread, but woow!! This opens doors. Thanks Bernd!

[BerndDasBrot]

It does not work though, there's no lead leading from the battery box to the engine.... *sweet*

that's an extremeley thwarting problem... :-P

I just had one of those moments. I never thought of using a fence for SNOT. I'm sure I've seen it used or in a SNOT suggestion thread, but woow!! This opens doors. Thanks Bernd!

I already knew this idea from a brickshelf user who uploaded a lot of SNOT-ideas (don't know his name though).

all the more I was suprised to find it in an idea book from the seventies.

(btw: my real name in Benjamin, but I will solve this mystery at my first anniversary. ;-) )