Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I'm with fatman, thinking rocky is likely (not confirmed or sure, just a leaning) town for the same logic.

Not sure who I AM suspicious of at the moment... so I'm gonna just go ROCK for a while and see if I can find any scummos falling over from the power of my BEAT!

Posted

I also think Amanda is scummy. One thing we've definitely learned from this lynch is that Paris wasn't afraid to bus her teammates, and he did accuse Amanda a couple times. She's also been called out multiple times for being unhelpful and even after those times she still hasn't stepped up her game at all.

You just say, I am scummy, but you don't bring any evidence. I was unhelpful the first two days? Yes. I was called out for that? How does this make me scummy? And I didn't step up? Really?

I don't think you stepped up either. Yes, you made a few more posts: the colour-coded voting analysis (where you suggested that it didn't really tell us anything), and the WIFOM arguments that I found confusing to say the least.

Who is left? oho! is Amanda! Much interesting.

Good point. Although I note that you and Romeo haven't been confirmed as town.

Interesting to note that Amanda didn't say anything about in her voting analysis yesterday about those who hadn't voted for Brittney on day 1. It makes sense that at least one scum didn't vote for Brittney.

If you know me and other characters similar to me, when they are town, then you will recognize a huge insecurity for making voting decisions. I think that I don't have these insecurities when I play Scum.

You made a number of posts before your vote, which incidentally was the next vote after the majority had been reached. So, you uhm'd and ah'd until Abraham's fate was pretty much sealed.

Looks like Paris's statement was true with Abraham. This makes me suspicious of Rocky as Paris did say

While I wouldn't put it past Paris to bus two scum buddies, I do think it is unlikely that she would have done so. I'm inclined to believe that Rocky is town rather than scum.

Night actions are incredibly useful and bringing up suspects, but with roles like godfather, millers, framers, tailors, and insane cops populating potentially this and other mafia situations, we as a town are required to use our heads and rationally inspect every word that has been said for subconscious scummy behavior that will eventually reveal itself.

I don't understand why you brought up the possibility of these roles (other than godfather) given we have been told it's a simple game and we haven't had anything to suggest to date that we have any of these more advanced or non-standard roles.

Also, where are Eric and Rosie today?

Posted

Uh, what? Is this a summary of how to play mafia? I'm not discounting the importance of day play, I'm just saying that right now, I don't have enough suspicions on one person to say they are scum. The people I thought were scummy (Paris and Abraham) turned out scum--and were both lynched. I didn't see Carlisa turning out as scum, as I didn't suspect her to be one. Ergo, the people I thought were scum--turned out scum--and now I'm out of people I thought were scum--that doesn't mean I'm now lazy an useless.

Yes it is a summary of how to play mafia, because you are lobbying in favor of a dependence upon night actions. Your very first post today, was an appeal for night actions, which we all hope to lead us somewhere, but thus far it has seemed like you treat it as our only recourse. You said you thought Paris and Abraham were scum, why did you think that? Is it simply because we had an investigation or a scummy looking CMF result, or did you consider the other contributing factors made plane through an analysis of their behavior during the day threads? If you did the latter than apply it again, towards new suspects, don't just "I'm out of people I thought were scum" and stop looking.

And I don't think the town is "missing right what is in front of them"; heck as you seem to know about PR's, a night investigation would only shed light on what is in front of them. Do you feel that we should not use night actions and focus only on the day game, because that's what's being implied here.

I'm saying an attitude of total dependence upon night actions ends up causing the town to miss "what is right in front of them" later on down the line, not right now. And of course I feel we should use night actions as I so clearly stated,

Night actions are incredibly useful and bringing up suspects...

However work hand in hand with analysis of day behavior, not exclusive of it.

And no I'm not a Lazy Boy; I feel that I'm active in trying to help the town (Moreso then you). And no I'm not a Manipulation Man--I'm not trying to manipulate the town into not doing anything or veering them in the wrong direction (Which you do seem to be doing).

Thank you for a suspicion, that's what I'm trying to get from you. Consider people's statements. Though when you make such statements, back them up i.e. how you have been trying to help the town moreso than me, or how I am manipulating the town and steering them in the wrong direction. Think man.

I also don't know where that statment came from in the first place; the Lazy/Manipulation seems tacked on the end of your summary (Which in regards to the PR also seems strange since many of the roles you state do not appear here, since by now we all know this is a "plain" mafia game--there sure as hell are no millers or insane cops here, or we would have seen something by now). To me, this whole fluff post seems like you are just jumping on the "point finger at Rocky" bandwagon, without any substance to your claim. Seems like a scum move to me. I may have a suspicion now.

I'm trying to guess your super name as requested by Fluffy, hence the lazy and manipulating monikers.

11.5. It's Superhero day at the hotel. Please make sure you make a superhero name for yourself and post as if you are acting to be a superhero. Voting does not have to use superhero names, however. Failure to comply will result in a One-Vote penalty.

And yes, I know we don't have those roles, but they are examples to reinforce my beliefs on how we work should as a town in this and every situation. Night actions and behavior analysis working together against any slyness the scum should try and get away with. I'll also gladly jump on the "point finger at Rocky" bandwagon if your behavior is warranting it. Don't give me the opportunity to do that though, engage us, use that brain that first made you suspect Paris and Abraham and apply it to the situation at hand, not only lounge back waiting for night actions and someone else to do the work.

I don't understand why you brought up the possibility of these roles (other than godfather) given we have been told it's a simple game and we haven't had anything to suggest to date that we have any of these more advanced or non-standard roles.

See above.

Posted

I am ROCK MAN. I throw rocks at people who are mean to me.

You know, I did kind of back off of accusing Rocky after Paris came up scum, but I guess it's still possible he could be scum... I'm not really sure. There's still all the contradictions he's made since Day 1, and throw on top of that he hasn't done much to clear his name at all. So he's kind of on middle ground here. Rocky along with Amanda and Balthasar are the three I can think of that are all on middle ground.

Posted

Hm, it's strange that a scum member would lie and tell us to have a minifigure that's as monstrous as their own, but hey, I don't mind. That also explains why that's the only figure that stood out.

Oh, in case you were wondering who's talking to you, it's Captain A-hair-ica! This vibranium hairbrush takes some getting used to, but I think I've got the hang of it :sweet:

Amanda now is basically my top suspect. Yesterday I already addressed why I was suspicious of her (something she never replied to, by the way) and today the only major thing she said was dripping with WIFOM (as she herself pointed out) and didn't actually provide any insight.

Also, Amanda is among my prime suspects. Not as much because she said Carlisa wasn't on her list, but because she only roleplayed and flew under the radar on day one, then on day two she started by speculating about the vigilante, and then, when we got the result, made a long post full of fluff in which she basically distanced herself from Paris.

Apart from that, there's not much to go on, so I'd really like her to speak up.

Posted

I am ROCK MAN. I throw rocks at people who are mean to me.

You know, I did kind of back off of accusing Rocky after Paris came up scum, but I guess it's still possible he could be scum... I'm not really sure. There's still all the contradictions he's made since Day 1, and throw on top of that he hasn't done much to clear his name at all. So he's kind of on middle ground here. Rocky along with Amanda and Balthasar are the three I can think of that are all on middle ground.

Who isn't on middle ground, in your opinion?

Holy egg McMuffin, FATMAN! To the FATMOBILE!

One way or another, I mean. Do you have any suspects? Any confident town-reads?

Posted

Who isn't on middle ground, in your opinion?

Holy egg McMuffin, FATMAN! To the FATMOBILE!

One way or another, I mean. Do you have any suspects? Any confident town-reads?

Me saying they're all middle ground is my way of saying I think they should be looked into today. At this point, we're getting to so few of us that it should be easier to narrow down this last scum or two. I already pointed out my suspicion towards Amanda earlier today and then there's Rocky who I accused for the first couple days and then backed off of after Paris came up scum. Last is Balthasar, but he really hasn't done anything too scummy in my eyes. The thing that makes me uneasy about him is just what I was saying earlier... he's just been at middle ground the whole time.

Posted

That's not at all what I thought you meant by "middle ground" but thank you for the clarification.

Holy golden syrup, FATMAN! To the FATMOBILE!

Posted

Yes it is a summary of how to play mafia, because you are lobbying in favor of a dependence upon night actions. Your very first post today, was an appeal for night actions, which we all hope to lead us somewhere, but thus far it has seemed like you treat it as our only recourse. You said you thought Paris and Abraham were scum, why did you think that? Is it simply because we had an investigation or a scummy looking CMF result, or did you consider the other contributing factors made plane through an analysis of their behavior during the day threads? If you did the latter than apply it again, towards new suspects, don't just "I'm out of people I thought were scum" and stop looking.

I'm lobbying for dependence upon night actions? Here is my very first post to show you what I said:

Well it sucks that we lost two town, and unfortunately it appears our vig killed one on accident, but we did get another scum.

I'm happy to have taken out another scum, but Abraham was notoriously quiet--so we really don't have any other leads from him. Maybe some town night action could shed some light on the scum.

From this statment you feel that I only care about night actions? Do I throw all logic out the window from this statment?

Paris was on my radar from the begining--and frainkly like past lives I am suspicous of over over active townsmen, especially early on; that along with her rudeness and jumpy-ness upon people who attack/criticize her (Like Romeo did). Then the night investigation sealed the deal for me. Abraham was on the outs and never helping let alone talking--and then the CM spirit that was a monster-ish fig. Finally on this point, who said "screw it, I'm done" simply because I don't have a strong lead now. When did I say I give up? You seem to be making a habbit of putting words in my mouth.

I'm saying an attitude of total dependence upon night actions ends up causing the town to miss "what is right in front of them" later on down the line, not right now. And of course I feel we should use night actions as I so clearly stated,

Again, I never said that we should only depend only on night actions. As for what's in front of them, I don't see how night actions would hinder that possibilty. A night action like an investigation prevents us from missing what is in front of us--it would allow us to see the scum in front of us like Paris.

Thank you for a suspicion, that's what I'm trying to get from you. Consider people's statements. Though when you make such statements, back them up i.e. how you have been trying to help the town moreso than me, or how I am manipulating the town and steering them in the wrong direction. Think man.

You're trying to get me suspicious of you? Seems to be working. I do consider people statements (And not just night actions), and back them up like right now. I've been helping the town, and helping vote of scum, I've had some contact with the core town, and my CM spirit helps show my towness to them. As for you manipulating the town, you seem to be filling the form with fluff like how to play higher level mafia but worst of all twisting my words like saying that I only want to use night actions.

I'm trying to guess your super name as requested by Fluffy, hence the lazy and manipulating monikers.

While the request was since cancelled, in all honesty I had just scrolled through the rules and missed that ammendment. Regardless, that does not seem like something that should be used to judge another when we are four days in (That's day one tactics).

And yes, I know we don't have those roles, but they are examples to reinforce my beliefs on how we work should as a town in this and every situation. Night actions and behavior analysis working together against any slyness the scum should try and get away with. I'll also gladly jump on the "point finger at Rocky" bandwagon if your behavior is warranting it. Don't give me the opportunity to do that though, engage us, use that brain that first made you suspect Paris and Abraham and apply it to the situation at hand, not only lounge back waiting for night actions and someone else to do the work.

Problem is you seem to have already jumped on the wagon, heck you're diving it. You already seem to have made up your mind that I'm scum, and thats the end of it. Along with your jump to conclusions and changing my words to fit your statments, I'm inclined to belieave you are scum. Why else would a townsman jump on my comments and suspicions.

Speaking of suspicions, I may not have too many (Though I've just gained one), but why are you jumping on me for not having any (Or many)? You however have not supplied any suspicions (Other then myself, though that was implied) today at all either? You cast a stone at me for not having suspicions when you yourself supply none?

Posted

Voting is now open!

An interlude will be on it's way shortly.

With 12 players remaining, a majority of 7 votes is required to form a lynch.

Posted

Interlude

9454806718_55a98f52af_z.jpg

"SQUAWK!! GRUMBLE GRUMBLE SQUAWK!!" Balthasar screams as the disgusting creature Mercutio befriended chases after the delicious-looking chicken.

9454806144_ef4e0bbe01_z.jpg

Meanwhile downstairs, Amanda Lazaro cuddles with her 7 new pets that she ordered on eBay. She loves them all, though she already isn't that fond of the seagull, who has a rather strange obsession with pecking Amanda's crotch.

"Ouch! Gully!"

22 hours remain in the day

Posted

I don't have much to say at the moment, but I feel the need to ensure those wondering, that I am still alive and kicking. I've had a tough time making time for the past week, but I'll be back later today with my thoughts on the current matters. :sweet:

#Thathairlooksevenbetterinblack

Posted

I'm lobbying for dependence upon night actions? Here is my very first post to show you what I said:

From this statment you feel that I only care about night actions? Do I throw all logic out the window from this statment?

I don't feel that your only care about night actions, only that you seemed fixated on them singularly from the onset.

Well it sucks that we lost two town, and unfortunately it appears our vig killed one on accident, but we did get another scum.

I'm happy to have taken out another scum, but Abraham was notoriously quiet--so we really don't have any other leads from him. Maybe some town night action could shed some light on the scum.

...To be honest, I don't have too many suspicions right now. We've gone through the Lawrance list and found two scum. The vig found another, and now we are down to a few scum (Hopefully one) and the need for night results are important--I think it will be hard to catch a scum during the day. I mean, if there is one left, it may be hard to find them since they would really be trying not to slip up...

Paris was on my radar from the begining--and frainkly like past lives I am suspicous of over over active townsmen, especially early on; that along with her rudeness and jumpy-ness upon people who attack/criticize her (Like Romeo did). Then the night investigation sealed the deal for me. Abraham was on the outs and never helping let alone talking--and then the CM spirit that was a monster-ish fig. Finally on this point, who said "screw it, I'm done" simply because I don't have a strong lead now. When did I say I give up? You seem to be making a habbit of putting words in my mouth.

You did when you said you were out of people you thought were scum! What's the point of saying such a thing. There are obviously more scum out there, ergo your mind should be going to more people you suspect of being scum! I don't put words in people's mouth, I call them out for the attitudes they represent.

Again, I never said that we should only depend only on night actions. As for what's in front of them, I don't see how night actions would hinder that possibilty. A night action like an investigation prevents us from missing what is in front of us--it would allow us to see the scum in front of us like Paris.

Hence my quote about godfathers and all manner of evil roles we see in other games, they require more thought and analysis than just a simple night actions and believe me, I've seen plenty of games where the town is so busy leaning on night actions they are easily fooled by the scum right in front of them. The point isn't those roles, the point is we should be working just as hard at independent analysis now as we would in those games. And again, it's not your words, which strangely enough you keep saying I'm accusing you of saying, it's your attitude concerning them.

You're trying to get me suspicious of you? Seems to be working. I do consider people statements (And not just night actions), and back them up like right now. I've been helping the town, and helping vote of scum, I've had some contact with the core town, and my CM spirit helps show my towness to them. As for you manipulating the town, you seem to be filling the form with fluff like how to play higher level mafia but worst of all twisting my words like saying that I only want to use night actions.

I'm trying to get you suspicious of someone, which I'll add you've gotten better at since the beginning of the day. That's how the town works, we lay our suspicions out, we back them up, we argue about them, we clarify, and we eventually win all because we open our mouths and talk. Silence kills a town and sometimes it needs reminding of that fact.

Problem is you seem to have already jumped on the wagon, heck you're diving it. You already seem to have made up your mind that I'm scum, and thats the end of it. Along with your jump to conclusions and changing my words to fit your statments, I'm inclined to belieave you are scum. Why else would a townsman jump on my comments and suspicions.

I have in no way made up my mind about you being scum, only in that you seemed to be of an attitude that stifled analysis earlier in the day. And why would a townsman jump on your comments and suspicions? Do you consider yourself above suspicion? You happen to be one of the few individuals left who has no evidence in their favor by either night actions nor post analysis. It's a simple matter of the process of elimination and pushing you, or as you like to put it "jumping" is one way of getting you to talk and as we all know the more someone talks, the more likely if they are a scum they will slip up.

Speaking of suspicions, I may not have too many (Though I've just gained one), but why are you jumping on me for not having any (Or many)? You however have not supplied any suspicions (Other then myself, though that was implied) today at all either? You cast a stone at me for not having suspicions when you yourself supply none?

As I said above, perhaps I consider you suspicious and have spent this entire time testing that theory. As far as others, Amanda and Balthasar currently don't have much going for them either at the moment, but I figured I'd start with you. In your defense, you haven't backed down and you've made a good number of town-tells, so I thank you for that.

Posted

By the process of logical elimination through claims and NA, I am satisfied that if there is only 1 scum killer left hiding, it has to be either Balthasar or Rocky. If there are more scums left hiding, I will include Amanda into my list.

But, like always, there are people I look at; however it's mostly because of activity levels. I don't hear much from Eric, and actually you Romeo don't sit very well with me, and cannot place it right now, but you just seem a bit off to me.

Yes I am suspicious of you. But it is also interesting that you are casting suspicions back at me for suspecting you.

I am also suspicious of Balthasar. Other than the reasons I have listed above, I noticed a few others have called out Balthasar for being middle of the road but him ignoring such calls and stalling time is not what a town should be doing right now. We saw Abraham ignoring similar calls to come out and turns out he is scum.

Having said that, I will stick my head out and say I am voting for Balthasar.

Vote: Balthasar Jameson (Kristel)

Posted

Before a bandwagon starts, who do you plan on voting for, Rocky?

You assume a bandwagon is going to start (On me?)? Why would you not vote; or are you waiting to join the bandwagon? Either way, I've not yet decided who I'll vote for, since there still is much time in the day, and I am looking at a few peoples. I'm looking closer at Romeo, since he hasn't said really anything today, other than a superhero name and asking for my suspicisions; just very inactive overall (See end of post). The same could be said for Eric today too--(My there seems to be a lot of inactive/missing people in this mafia), who only showed up to ensure us he's still alive. Amanda and Balthasar seem to be showing up on lists; I'm not too sure on the former, but I do have a gut kind of feeling that Balthasar is town (Don't know why, just have a feeling).

I am suspicious of you, Ronald, however. You've got it out for me or something, and you seem to not want to read the posts I make, specifically the day two ones about my flip/flop britt vote, which I answered multiple times--yes I admit, I did flip/flop on day one--because it was day one; we knew almost nothing concreate. My thoughts on her changed as the day progressed and new converstations were added to the topic at hand. I seem to be haunted by my indecision on day one.

I'm also obviously suspicious of Tybalt because of todays conversation between us. He does seem to want to place words in my mouth or at the least creating non-existant links; such as myself saying "I don't have too many suspicions right now" = "I don't have suspicions, so screw it I give up". He now feels that my attitude stifled analysis because I stated that I wanted to hear some night actions? Frainkly, he seems hella bent on pushing my buttons or lynching me. (Although see point C)

---

I don't feel that your only care about night actions, only that you seemed fixated on them singularly from the onset.

I have in no way made up my mind about you being scum, only in that you seemed to be of an attitude that stifled analysis earlier in the day. And why would a townsman jump on your comments and suspicions? Do you consider yourself above suspicion? You happen to be one of the few individuals left who has no evidence in their favor by either night actions nor post analysis. It's a simple matter of the process of elimination and pushing you, or as you like to put it "jumping" is one way of getting you to talk and as we all know the more someone talks, the more likely if they are a scum they will slip up.

As I said above, perhaps I consider you suspicious and have spent this entire time testing that theory. As far as others, Amanda and Balthasar currently don't have much going for them either at the moment, but I figured I'd start with you. In your defense, you haven't backed down and you've made a good number of town-tells, so I thank you for that.

A) I am not fixated on night actions. This is the problem I'm having with you; you take a statment of mine, such as myself saying "I think night actions are imporant and that it may be hard to catch the remaining scum during the day", and blow the statment up to say that "I only care about night actions". That is not true.

B) No, I do not feel that I am above suspicion, no one is. I just find your consistant scrutinizing of myself scummy--you have other suspicions, with self admitedly little on them, but you chose not to pursue them? Why only me when you say I town tell multiple times?

And I do apparently have little evidence of my town favor, at least in the concreate sense of things (Like an investigation result). But that's the burdon I must bear as a plain flavored townie. I have to talk to others to convince them of my in fact actual townieness; which is hard to do when people jump to conclusions on the words said about me, and not from me.

C) Perhaps you consider me suspicious? I think we are at the point in our own conversation where you can confirm outright if you think I am scum or town (The latter being the correct answer). I can confirm that I do think you are town, and we are just two town arguing--which I've seen and been appart of in various mafias. But I also need to ask why you only test your theory on me? Why do you not follow up on other suspicions?

---

By the process of logical elimination through claims and NA, I am satisfied that if there is only 1 scum killer left hiding, it has to be either Balthasar or Rocky. If there are more scums left hiding, I will include Amanda into my list.

Yes I am suspicious of you. But it is also interesting that you are casting suspicions back at me for suspecting you.

Why did I "cast a suspicion" back on you? Because your first (of two posts today) post says two things; your superhero name and a question asking for my suspicions; without stating your own, or anthing else for that matter. So lets get the timing right; you ask me for my suspicions; I say I think you are suspicious for asking me without supplying any of your own thoughts to your empty post, and now you are suspicious of me for being suspicious of you? Ok... I am "casting a suspicion back at you" because you ask for the answers but don't want to contribute.

Posted

By the process of logical elimination through claims and NA, I am satisfied that if there is only 1 scum killer left hiding, it has to be either Balthasar or Rocky.

That is interesting - Balthasar is still in the back of my mind from yesterday. You seem to have come to that conclusion based on private information but I won't ask you to share because too much could be revealed.

Going with what I know, I feel happy:

Vote: Amanda Lazaro (PsyKater)

Holy bucket-sized triple-hazelnut upside-down macchiato, FATMAN! To the FATMOBILE!

Oops...

Vote: Amanda Lazaro (PsyKater)

Posted

For now, I'll say

Vote: Balthasar Jameson (Kristel)

because he's said basically nothing today, and not much significant in prior days.

Others are also in that boat, like Eric (though he claims elsewhere to have reason for his absence) and Rosie like Bathalsar mentioned, but we'll start with him and then pursue others as time allows. And I'm also using gut feeling here... can't put my finger on it, but Rosie gives me a town vibe, and Balthasar and Eric don't.

Posted

You assume a bandwagon is going to start (On me?)? Why would you not vote; or are you waiting to join the bandwagon? Either way, I've not yet decided who I'll vote for, since there still is much time in the day, and I am looking at a few peoples. I'm looking closer at Romeo, since he hasn't said really anything today, other than a superhero name and asking for my suspicisions; just very inactive overall (See end of post). The same could be said for Eric today too--(My there seems to be a lot of inactive/missing people in this mafia), who only showed up to ensure us he's still alive. Amanda and Balthasar seem to be showing up on lists; I'm not too sure on the former, but I do have a gut kind of feeling that Balthasar is town (Don't know why, just have a feeling).

I am suspicious of you, Ronald, however. You've got it out for me or something, and you seem to not want to read the posts I make, specifically the day two ones about my flip/flop britt vote, which I answered multiple times--yes I admit, I did flip/flop on day one--because it was day one; we knew almost nothing concreate. My thoughts on her changed as the day progressed and new converstations were added to the topic at hand. I seem to be haunted by my indecision on day one.

I'm also obviously suspicious of Tybalt because of todays conversation between us. He does seem to want to place words in my mouth or at the least creating non-existant links; such as myself saying "I don't have too many suspicions right now" = "I don't have suspicions, so screw it I give up". He now feels that my attitude stifled analysis because I stated that I wanted to hear some night actions? Frainkly, he seems hella bent on pushing my buttons or lynching me. (Although see point C)

No, I'm not saying a bandwagon will form against you, I'm saying that whenever one forms you just join in on it later. I thought it'd be interesting to know who you'd vote for before everyone else voted. It seems you're only suspicious of the people that argue with you, but that's better than nothing so thanks for having suspicions.

About Balthasar, as I pointed out earlier today we're really beginning to narrow people down and he's one of those people that's just kind of here. He hasn't really done anything too scummy (except not say much today) but he hasn't really done anything too Townie either. For now I'll Vote: Balthasar Jameson (Kristel). I do want to see what a particular person does later down the road when they see this vote, though.

Posted

I've decided that Balthasar is a better lynch for today than Amanda, so:

Unvote: Amanda Lazaro (PsyKater)

Vote: Balthasar Jameson (Kristel)

Posted

I've decided that Balthasar is a better lynch for today than Amanda, so:

Unvote: Amanda Lazaro (PsyKater)

Vote: Balthasar Jameson (Kristel)

And why's that?

Posted

I had already had by own suspicions of Balthasar and I was told something that's best not to share out loud in public.

Well if it's that important that it changed your vote, you should say something about it. I mean if it confirms that he is scum, it should be told to the public at large; otherwise the majority of public have no idea why you changed your vote. Obviously if it's a risk to PR's then theres a reason not to say the whole story, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't say anything.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...