LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Durins Bane]

Oh the silly discussions. If you want a mumak just buy the walking atat and build over it. BOOOM. then you have a walking mumakai and its head will swing side to side!

[Blakstone]

A lot of Hobbit action figures hit the clearance bins around me. I think these movies target a younger audience that does not buy their own collectibles.

[BlueberryWaffles]

Yeah. I got Bilbo and Legolas 3 3/4 inch figures for $4 a piece back in October.

[Andeh]

I can't wait to have my mumakai, with laser cannons on it's back!

[InvincibleEagle]

I gotta say that this theme better not be over! There's just way too much in demand they haven't supplied yet.

[Darth Caedus]

If Lego wanted a killer, auto-profit final wave, they'd release 4 things: balrog, Witchking showdown, an osgiliath armybuilder (gondor/orcs), and the flagship set would be a brickbuilt Mumakil. It'd be a very appealing item to both AFOLs, kids, and casuals - kids like elephants, and Mumaks are the coolest elephants of them all - plus it is a "vehicle," which Lego loves to make. Casuals recognize the Mumaks from ROTK and it'd be a cool display piece. And AFOLs would eat it up because the thing would inherently be a monstrous armybuilder. A Mumak with half a dozen Haradrim/Easterlings, throw in Gamling mounted with a bow as the unique fig? Instant win.

This came up in a another thread - Lego not using the 13 buck slot properly. So far the 13 & 20 slots have been royally screwed up by Lego, with all the other sets generally coming out much better than these smaller ones:

Gandalfs Cart: terrible set. Cart itself is lame, Gandalf is barely armed, and Frodo is in his most boring outfit with zero gear. Its only value would be as a display piece for Gandalf's memorable arrival and the drive to Bag End, but it can only sit one minifig!

Shelobs Lair: Best of the cheap sets, and the only exception to this rule. Makes Gandalfs cart super-stupid since you can get the ultimate Frodo in this set, with his phial, elven cloak, Sting, and proper outfit - plus Sam. And what's Frodo without Sam?!

Riddles Ring: worst set of the whole line. Rocky turd, rehashed Gollum, boring Bilbo.

Wizard Duel: Redundant. Saruman is fine as an exclusive to Orthanc. The Palantir could have been there instead of the light up crap.

DGA: Dumb set. Beorn's headmold, not enough Orcs to justify an armybuilder, a scene that doesn't even occur at all. Mediocre build too.

Shelobs Lair is good, and I'll excuse DGA because of the movie split. But this would have been the proper alternative:

LOTR Wave 1: Lose the Cart. Slot Gandalf into Mines of Moria, cuz why not.

$12.99 - The Last Alliance. 1x Numenorean, 1x Noldor, 1x Mordor Orc (grey skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

Hobbit Wave 1: Lose Riddles for the Ring. Toss Bilbo and Gollum into Goblintown - problem solved!

$9.99 - Azanulbizar Conflict. 1x Erebor Dwarf, 1x Azanulbizar Orc (black or deep green skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

LOTR Wave 2: Lose Wizard Duel, toss true palantir in Orthanc.

$12.99 - Defense of Osgiliath. 1x Gondorian Soldier, 1x Morgul Orc (pale green skin) 1x Easterling, small rubble/statue/archway/whatever.

[Mr. Cube]

Darth Cadeus. Hmm...It´s strange to design the sets based on prologues, not on the movie itself. Better choice would be some battle packs to me (Goblins, Gundabad Orcs, Dwarfs, Lake-towners...). + that palatír in Orthanc doesn´t looks as good as you described it, because it can´t show the eye of Sauron, like that one from Wizards Battle.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Mr. Cube

[Blazej_Holen]

If Lego wanted a killer, auto-profit final wave, they'd release 4 things: balrog, Witchking showdown, an osgiliath armybuilder (gondor/orcs), and the flagship set would be a brickbuilt Mumakil. It'd be a very appealing item to both AFOLs, kids, and casuals - kids like elephants, and Mumaks are the coolest elephants of them all - plus it is a "vehicle," which Lego loves to make. Casuals recognize the Mumaks from ROTK and it'd be a cool display piece. And AFOLs would eat it up because the thing would inherently be a monstrous armybuilder. A Mumak with half a dozen Haradrim/Easterlings, throw in Gamling mounted with a bow as the unique fig? Instant win.

This came up in a another thread - Lego not using the 13 buck slot properly. So far the 13 & 20 slots have been royally screwed up by Lego, with all the other sets generally coming out much better than these smaller ones:

Gandalfs Cart: terrible set. Cart itself is lame, Gandalf is barely armed, and Frodo is in his most boring outfit with zero gear. Its only value would be as a display piece for Gandalf's memorable arrival and the drive to Bag End, but it can only sit one minifig!

Shelobs Lair: Best of the cheap sets, and the only exception to this rule. Makes Gandalfs cart super-stupid since you can get the ultimate Frodo in this set, with his phial, elven cloak, Sting, and proper outfit - plus Sam. And what's Frodo without Sam?!

Riddles Ring: worst set of the whole line. Rocky turd, rehashed Gollum, boring Bilbo.

Wizard Duel: Redundant. Saruman is fine as an exclusive to Orthanc. The Palantir could have been there instead of the light up crap.

DGA: Dumb set. Beorn's headmold, not enough Orcs to justify an armybuilder, a scene that doesn't even occur at all. Mediocre build too.

Shelobs Lair is good, and I'll excuse DGA because of the movie split. But this would have been the proper alternative:

LOTR Wave 1: Lose the Cart. Slot Gandalf into Mines of Moria, cuz why not.

$12.99 - The Last Alliance. 1x Numenorean, 1x Noldor, 1x Mordor Orc (grey skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

Hobbit Wave 1: Lose Riddles for the Ring. Toss Bilbo and Gollum into Goblintown - problem solved!

$9.99 - Azanulbizar Conflict. 1x Erebor Dwarf, 1x Azanulbizar Orc (black or deep green skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

LOTR Wave 2: Lose Wizard Duel, toss true palantir in Orthanc.

$12.99 - Defense of Osgiliath. 1x Gondorian Soldier, 1x Morgul Orc (pale green skin) 1x Easterling, small rubble/statue/archway/whatever.

Why Easterling in Osgiliath ruins? They never been there :)

Darth Cadeus. Hmm...It´s strange to design the sets based on prologues, not on the movie itself. Better choice would be some battle packs to me (Goblins, Gundabad Orcs, Dwarfs, Lake-towners...). + that palatír in Orthanc doesn´t looks as good as you described it, because it can´t show the eye of Sauron, like that one from Wizards Battle.

He describes those sets because he wants (as everyone here) those minifig in cheap :) Its a good idea for armybuilding but only for AFOLS...

[Brickadiergerard]

Why Easterling in Osgiliath ruins? They never been there :)

That hasn't exactly been a barrier to the inclusion of figures in sets so far - Beorn in DGA being a notable recent example, Yazneg another. And it would be a great set. The Easterlings were also sadly under-played in the films. They're one of the main parts of Sauron's army in the books, and why they didn't get to feature in the film's version of the battle of the Pelennor Fields was always beyond me. All they do in the film is march to the Black Gate and, er, that's it.

For me, Darth Cadeus's analysis nails it on every point. I would only add that my kids enjoyed Gandalf's Cart and Riddles for the Ring. But DC's alternate sets would have been waaaayyyy better.

[Thomas_w]

Gandalfs Cart: terrible set. Cart itself is lame, Gandalf is barely armed, and Frodo is in his most boring outfit with zero gear. Its only value would be as a display piece for Gandalf's memorable arrival and the drive to Bag End, but it can only sit one minifig!

Shelobs Lair: Best of the cheap sets, and the only exception to this rule. Makes Gandalfs cart super-stupid since you can get the ultimate Frodo in this set, with his phial, elven cloak, Sting, and proper outfit - plus Sam. And what's Frodo without Sam?!

Riddles Ring: worst set of the whole line. Rocky turd, rehashed Gollum, boring Bilbo.

Wizard Duel: Redundant. Saruman is fine as an exclusive to Orthanc. The Palantir could have been there instead of the light up crap.

DGA: Dumb set. Beorn's headmold, not enough Orcs to justify an armybuilder, a scene that doesn't even occur at all. Mediocre build too.

I am sorry, but I think your synopsis of the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit sets is totally deluded. You seem to be operating on the assumption that people who buy these sets either buy all of them or multiples of them all for "army building". Personally my two favourite sets from the whole series were Gandalf Arrives and the Wizard dual. Both sets allowed me to get some of my favourite characters from the films without having to spend hundreds of pounds on a huge tower.

Lego products are aimed at children first and foremost, not obsessive collectors hungering for thousands of identical personality-less soldiers. Having cheaper sets with iconic main characters in allows people of all incomes to enjoy the figures. Your suggestion of removing the Gandalf Arrives set and replacing it with a boring set containing 3 generic fighters who most people wont care about is ludicrous, and frankly I don't think this would be the instant "auto-profit" scheme you think it would be. The same can be said of your Defence of Osgiliath set, you would remove one of the most iconic scenes of the Lord of the Rings trilogy and replace it with a few generic monsters, but its okay because that cool little playset can be incorporated into a £250 monster set, well out of the price point for many fans, adult and children alike.

I don't know if this post was satire, or you genuinely think these things, but your post comes across as very naive to me.

[Deathleech]

I don't think Lego even needs to cut any of the sets they offered. The past few LotR and Hobbit waves have been small enough that Lego could of easily thrown in 1 or 2 proper battle packs on top of everything. The battle packs could of been like the Star Wars ones and required minimal effort on Lego's part. Four minifigures and a small build for $12.99. How hard is that? Like I said in the Hobbit thread, I would of loved to have seen an Easterling and Haradrim battle pack to compliment the Black Gates set in the second LotR wave and a Mordor Orc and Gondor soldier one in the third wave. Here are my ideas for battle packs if we get three LotR waves:

Wave 1:

Rohan Battle Pack - 4 Rohan Soldiers. Gamling or some other higher ranking soldier, the soldier from the UHA set, and 1-2 more rag tag Rohirrim with either of the helms we see Eowyn or Merry wearing. Give them 2 shields, a bow and quiver, and a spear. Make a smaller wall piece to attach to Helm's Deep. Lego could of also gave us 3 Rohirrim here and snuck in an elf of Lothlorien.

Uruk-hai Battle Pack - 4 Uruk-hai. Pretty much exactly what we got in UHA except smaller. 2 with sword and shields, 2 with halberds. Maybe a small wall ruin and the bolt thrower as the build?

Wave 2:

Easterling Battle Pack - 4 Easterlings. 1 captain and 3 grunts. 1 armed with sword and shield, 1 with bow and quicker, and 2 armed with spear and shields. All decked out in their cool gold armor.

Haradrim Battle Pack - 4 Haradrim. The chieftan/Mumakil driver and 3 masked Haradrim. Give 2 bows and quivers and 1 a spear. I am not sure what the build could be for these two BPs, make a small add on to the Black Gate set?

Wave 3:

Gondor Soldier Battle Pack - 4 soldiers of Gondor. 2 Gondor Soldiers, 1 Ithilien Ranger, 1 White Tree guard. Give the two normal soldiers shields and swords, the guard a pike and shield, and the Ithilien Ranger a bow and quiver. The build could be a small wall of Minas Tirith, the court yard, or a small trebuchet that attaches to a bigger Gondor set.

Mordor Orc Battle Pack - 4 Morranon Orcs. 1 could be a captain or lieutenant, maybe Gorbag? Someone that looks enough like a grunt to not discourage multiple purchases. Make the other 3 orcs decked out in armor. 2 with sword and shields, 1 with bow and quiver. A small catapult and rock would do for the build.

If there are only two waves basically just combine most of the sets together and only offer 1-2 soldiers from each faction. While not as ideal, it would still be vastly better than what we got.

[Mr. Cube]

Deathleech: Nice ideas. Personally, I would add just one think - replace one generic uruk-hai with uruk-hai general with that cool helmet (from my avatar).

[Tuinman]

This came up in a another thread - Lego not using the 13 buck slot properly. So far the 13 & 20 slots have been royally screwed up by Lego, with all the other sets generally coming out much better than these smaller ones:

Gandalfs Cart: terrible set. Cart itself is lame, Gandalf is barely armed, and Frodo is in his most boring outfit with zero gear. Its only value would be as a display piece for Gandalf's memorable arrival and the drive to Bag End, but it can only sit one minifig!

Shelobs Lair: Best of the cheap sets, and the only exception to this rule. Makes Gandalfs cart super-stupid since you can get the ultimate Frodo in this set, with his phial, elven cloak, Sting, and proper outfit - plus Sam. And what's Frodo without Sam?!

Riddles Ring: worst set of the whole line. Rocky turd, rehashed Gollum, boring Bilbo.

Wizard Duel: Redundant. Saruman is fine as an exclusive to Orthanc. The Palantir could have been there instead of the light up crap.

DGA: Dumb set. Beorn's headmold, not enough Orcs to justify an armybuilder, a scene that doesn't even occur at all. Mediocre build too.

Shelobs Lair is good, and I'll excuse DGA because of the movie split. But this would have been the proper alternative:

LOTR Wave 1: Lose the Cart. Slot Gandalf into Mines of Moria, cuz why not.

$12.99 - The Last Alliance. 1x Numenorean, 1x Noldor, 1x Mordor Orc (grey skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

Hobbit Wave 1: Lose Riddles for the Ring. Toss Bilbo and Gollum into Goblintown - problem solved!

$9.99 - Azanulbizar Conflict. 1x Erebor Dwarf, 1x Azanulbizar Orc (black or deep green skin), rock formation, mini catapult or flick fire.

LOTR Wave 2: Lose Wizard Duel, toss true palantir in Orthanc.

$12.99 - Defense of Osgiliath. 1x Gondorian Soldier, 1x Morgul Orc (pale green skin) 1x Easterling, small rubble/statue/archway/whatever.

I do not share your vision/ idea. I am happy with Gandalfs cart, as it is the start of the movie and for that very recognisable. It stands excellent next to the Hobbit house. And it's good to have a Frodo in different clothing, also for MOC'ing purposes.

Also: I'm cannot afford/ am not willing to pay 200 bucks for 1 Lego set, so to have a set like Wizards duel gives me the opportunity to get Saruman as well.

Shelobs lair is great, I agree on you with that one. DGA is maybe a bit overpriced for what you get, but still not bad, when you connect it to the bigger Dol Guldur.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Tuinman

[Deathleech]

Yet look at the Star Wars line. Do they even offer any sets under $15 that include named characters? Aren't they all pretty much army builders now? I agree that Lego needs to find a happy medium and satisfy all fans, but Gandalf Arrives really can't be that appealing of a set to anyone can it? The build isn't terribly interesting and you could get the same Frodo and Gandalf in polybags for $3 cheaper (at least here in the states) . You can also get them both in a number of other fairly cheap sets . I doubt most kids care what clothing Frodo is in as long as they can get him. For $7 more you can get him in sets like Shelob Attacks. I think most kids would want Gollum, Sam, and a giant spider for a mere $7 more than they would want Gandalf and Frodo with a tiny cart pulled by a horse? The same goes for Riddles for the Ring. The build was beyond lame and the figures are available in so many other sets it's not even funny (well at least Bilbo was). I think the Wizard Battle was the only really justified set because there are no other cheap options to get Saruman.

At any rate, you assume that kids have no interest in generic soldiers but I don't think that is true. Yes kids want the main characters, but I remember when I was younger always thinking how lame it was when a character like Darth Vader was in several sets yet Storm Troopers were only offered in one or two. I always thought "what the heck, there is only ONE Darth Vader but there are thousands upon thousands of Storm Troopers in the movies so why isn't it the same in these toys!?" I find it hard to believe kids would pass up buying an army builder if it didn't have a main character. I am sure kids would buy at least one battle pack, which is the most anyone is going to buy of sets like Gandalf Arrives or Riddles for the Ring. On the other AFOLS probably pass up those sets since they buy the full waves and can get the characters in other sets, all the while they would buy DOZENS of battle packs. For instance I bought 1 Gandalf Arrives, Wizard Battle, and Riddles for the Ring sets. I bought over 10 Mirkwood Elf Army and 20 Uruk-hai Army sets. If Lego gave us a proper $12.99 battle pack, like I mentioned above, I could easily see myself buying at least 10 of EVERY one and as many as 20 or 30 of some like the Mordor Orcs or Gondor Soldiers. If kids REALLY need a unique character just throw in someone who looks common enough to serve as a general and can still be massed. There are PLENTY of these characters in LotR and the Hobbit.. Grishnak, Shagrat, Gorbag, Gamling, Eomer, Faramir, Madril, etc.

Also I saw TONS of Riddles for the Ring clogging shelves when it was out. That set could not have sold well. What appeal does it have to kids? Are they going to sit there and have Gollum and Bilbo tell each other riddles from the film? I would bet they would have MUCH more fun with an orcs/elf or dwarf/orc battle pack. If Lego feels it's absolutely necessary to give us a $12.99 set in each wave with main characters, why not at least compromise and do something else for AFOLs and army builders? Make the $20 set a proper army builder and put the characters usually in it in another set (Beorn in DGB, Sam in Weathertop, etc.). Or at the very least give us a $30 army builder every wave like MEA and UHA. I feel like a lot of people look at army builders as boring and lame but look how well they do for Star Wars. Obviously kids and adults alike love them or they wouldn't release 4+ every wave. I can just see kids eating up an Easterling BP, or a Gondor one. Kids would love the amount of minifigures to bolster their small armies and fill out the larger sets, AFOLs could army build, and of course what MOCer wouldn't love more shiny armor soldiers or unique Easterling/Mirkwood Elf/Iron Hills Dwarf/ armor?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Deathleech

[Blakstone]

I liked the Gandalf Arrives sets too. It disappeared from the shelves before before I could give one to my niece. I agree that it should have either been wide enough for two minifigs or had different axles so that it could easily be MOCed into a two seater. LEGO vehicles are frequently one seat wide.

Both the first wave of LotR and The Hobbit focused on getting the main characters (The Fellowship and Thorin's Company).

This wave of LotR did focus on army building one army: Uruk Hai. You can build quite an army them even if you just buy one of each set. As fans we always want more, but I think this wave was beautifully planned.

I think fans might have been happier if the second wave focused on one theme as well. However, I stand by my belief that this wave was focused on getting the necessary molds for the Orthanc.

EDIT: Fixed two typos

Edited February 4, 2014 by Blakstone

[naf]

Gandalfs Cart: terrible set. Cart itself is lame, Gandalf is barely armed, and Frodo is in his most boring outfit with zero gear. Its only value would be as a display piece for Gandalf's memorable arrival and the drive to Bag End, but it can only sit one minifig!

Shelobs Lair: Best of the cheap sets, and the only exception to this rule. Makes Gandalfs cart super-stupid since you can get the ultimate Frodo in this set, with his phial, elven cloak, Sting, and proper outfit - plus Sam. And what's Frodo without Sam?!

Riddles Ring: worst set of the whole line. Rocky turd, rehashed Gollum, boring Bilbo.

Wizard Duel: Redundant. Saruman is fine as an exclusive to Orthanc. The Palantir could have been there instead of the light up crap.

DGA: Dumb set. Beorn's headmold, not enough Orcs to justify an armybuilder, a scene that doesn't even occur at all. Mediocre build too.

I think the flaw here is assuming everyone army builds. I think the vast majority of Lego buyers don't army build, and only buy a set once. Lego can't make every set an army builder at the expense of weakening the entire line.

Gandalf arrives is a great little set, and it reminds of of some of the simple peasant carts that would be available in the castle lines from the 80's. It also pairs well with the Bag-End set.

Riddles for the Rings is indeed a big blob of gray bricks, but there's a lot of that going on in the LotR/Hobbit theme just because of the locations everything takes place in. You have caves, mines, castles, all of which end up having large amounts of gray. Again, I like this set, it makes a very nice little display piece, and seeing as it's arguably the most important scene in the entire saga, I'm glad they included it. If I were to make one suggestion on it, I think it would have been better if they had built Gollum's cave instead of the big rock, but you can easily build that with the bricks included.

The wizard duel is a great little set, again something that looks great as a display and is also an iconic scene from the book. Not everyone can afford a $200 Orthanc set, so I'm glad they gave fans a way to get Saruman in a low cost set.

[Blazej_Holen]

That hasn't exactly been a barrier to the inclusion of figures in sets so far - Beorn in DGA being a notable recent example, Yazneg another. And it would be a great set. The Easterlings were also sadly under-played in the films. They're one of the main parts of Sauron's army in the books, and why they didn't get to feature in the film's version of the battle of the Pelennor Fields was always beyond me. All they do in the film is march to the Black Gate and, er, that's it.

For me, Darth Cadeus's analysis nails it on every point. I would only add that my kids enjoyed Gandalf's Cart and Riddles for the Ring. But DC's alternate sets would have been waaaayyyy better.

No Yazneg was in the ser because TLG thought that he is Azog, because Azog supposed to look like this. TLG makes sets based on the movie not a books.

And yes you´re right about Beorn, but they (TLG) need to include him in the wave somewhere.. And maybe we see him in Dol Guldur in extended version...And in the movie storyline he was there acording to his tale...

So for you maybe this Darth Cadeus analysis is good, but unrealistic.:)

[Alcarin]

I think the flaw here is assuming everyone army builds. I think the vast majority of Lego buyers don't army build, and only buy a set once. Lego can't make every set an army builder at the expense of weakening the entire line.

Yep a toy made after MOVIE with MASSIVE battles being its centerpiece and most intriguing parts (if we exclude Fellowship up to falls) should totally be focused on something else...

LOTR is not Super heroes where you should get Superman all the time or Batman or the Avengers....

[Ardelon]

Yep a toy made after MOVIE with MASSIVE battles being its centerpiece and most intriguing parts (if we exclude Fellowship up to falls) should totally be focused on something else...

Well, I would say the centerpiece of the LotR movies, like the books, was the journey of the fellowship, especially the Hobbits, even when they split up. Maybe Tolkien would say the certerpiece were his Elvish languages. The realms, armies and battles were just a delicious backdrop.

I really would like to see battlepacks, though (who wouldnt?). I was hoping TLG would release some at the end of the theme, when there would be no risk of cannibalizing sales of existing sets, but I have no reason to think this would happen.

[Darth Caedus]

One thing I forgot to mention is that the ideal place for a 'cheap' Saruman would be adding him to the upcoming Dol Guldur TABA set, because I'll acknowledge that many can't afford the $200 Orthanc (I really couldn't either, but budget be damned).

As to the other criticisms of 'making everything armybuilders', my thought experiment was very deliberate: this method would have left all the other sets in the wave quite intact, and 90% of them are non-armybuilders. Gandalf's Cart is redundant because Shelob costs only slightly more for a much more exciting build with more characters. Gandalf could have easily rested in the MoM in that wave given how many other ways there are to acquire him. The Wizard Battle is pointless because by then there are already enough Gandalfs, and Saruman could have fit into the cheap TABA set. And Riddles for the Ring is, as said above, pure trash, because it has no play value or collector value. The figures are rehashes, the build is garbage, and it's the least action-y scene that Lego's adapted. If they HAD to keep it, they should've made it 13 bucks and tossed in a goblin, there's one right in the freakin' scene!

And LOTR armybuilders are hardly 'generic'. An example of a "generic" looking arymbuilder: The TOR Star Wars battlepack went on clearance for a reason: the troop designs have no resonance with anyone except a tiny minority of EU fans (and I love EU). Excellent battlepack, with 2 of each faction, but with 0% appeal to casuals or kids. A LOTR battlepack as I described above would have things people can recognize: the fierce Orcs of Mordor, the golden-armored Easterlings, the elegant Noldor, and above all, the silver-helmed Gondorians.

At any rate, you assume that kids have no interest in generic soldiers but I don't think that is true. Yes kids want the main characters, but I remember when I was younger always thinking how lame it was when a character like Darth Vader was in several sets yet Storm Troopers were only offered in one or two. I always thought "what the heck, there is only ONE Darth Vader but there are thousands upon thousands of Storm Troopers in the movies so why isn't it the same in these toys!?" I find it hard to believe kids would pass up buying an army builder if it didn't have a main character.

This. A 1000 times this. I'm 21 and have been collecting since I was 5. When Lego SW hit in '99 I was a 7-year-old ecstatic child. This was huge. But it was supremely irritating that it was so hard to get bad guys! Having all the good guys and all they can fight is Vader and a couple scout troopers? The big heroes and villains are important, but I *always* wanted to have at least a few generics involved. That's why lego battle droids were great - easy to get a lot of them and have little Lego Qui-gon and Obi-wan eviscerate them. I was a teenager by the time the battlepacks hit, and they were still so awesome I had to get lots of them. FINALLY, to have a squad of the iconic Rebel Fleet Troopers! Epic!

I remember being irritated that other lines were so main-character heavy. It was frustrating. So many darn Harry Potters when you only needed around 3 variations max. And that wasn't even a franchise that much at all in the way of armybuilding! It's excusable in Batman stuff since he has so many suit variants (though they still don't make enough variations. Every suit should be different, prints cost next to nothing and add colossal value - imagine a freakin' Brightest Day or Dark Knight of the Round Table Batman) - but Star Wars and LOTR are franchises that are about battle and adventure. They understand this with Star Wars - why don't they get that it's the same with LOTR? Especially since the designs of LOTR armies are more intricate and spectacular than Saleucami/Utapau clone troopers or whatever dregs from the bottom of the barrel they're dredging up in Lego SW these days (don't get me wrong, I love clone variants, but it's not *that* exciting, except when it's swag helmets like Death Star Gunners).

[atreyu2112]

Why no love for Treebeard? I understand that there is an Ent with the Orthanc set, but Treebeard is SUCH an iconic character!

To me, the Ent with Orthanc is Birch:

A brick built Treebeard set would be comparable to the Shelob set, would include Merry, Pippin & Grishnakh... $30-40 set. BAM!

If a Treebeard is NOT coming, why would they put a "generic" Ent in the Orthanc set. The minute I saw this I assumed a Treebeard set was a definite. Plus, even in the game, you get to play as both Treebeard & the other Ent. An authentic Treebeard along with the Orc Forge & Orthanc would make a KILLER display.

My mom wants her own Treebeard, my wife, several of my friends. It's a no brainer $$$ maker. Some generic Ent... meh, whatever, where's Treebeard?

I am certainly happy for what LotR we do have, but the collection won't be complete without him, the Balrog, the Witchking with his Fell Beast and some sort of Gondor/Minas Tirith representation. It honestly would be a slap in the face to the fans that have been collecting the entire line not to release these sets.

[Deathleech]

Honestly I wish Lego would of taken a different approach to marketing when they obtained the LotR license. I have seen other toy companies such as Hasbro do things like make more limited runs of ultra detailed action figures marketed strictly towards adult collectors. I feel like LotR would of been PERFECT for something like this. Lego could of done a more limited run aimed at adults and gave us AFOLs everything we desired rather than doing what they are now where they are trying to please everyone (it would seem), but not really making anyone extremely happy. I mean are kids really that interested in LotR? It's a PG-13 movie and Lego is mainly aimed at 8-12 year olds. To make it worse the LotR movies came out over a decade ago so most kids that would buy Lego were not even old enough to see the movies when they were first released.

Just look at the Simpsons theme. Rather than have normal 5-6 set waves they are doing a big D2C exclusive and a minifigure series. Something like this would of worked wonders with LotR I think. I brought it up before, but how cool would LotR CMFs be? You could army build, try to collect the entire Fellowship, etc just from one wave alone. I feel like most of the LotR scenes don't lend themselves well to being made into Lego sets. Lego does really well with small buildings or vehicles. Other than a few catapults and boats, there are next to no vehicles in LotR. Most of the locations are either HUGE buildings (Minas Tirith) or sprawling landscapes (Mirkwood, Mines of Moria). Both are hard to recreate when you have to meet certain price points.

My dream would of been to see Lego cater to adults with the LotR line and done more limited production runs. Make 1-2 huge sets each wave, a creature or two, and then a CMF series. Give us 3-4 waves and they could of covered all the main buildings, all the characters, and all the awesome creatures. I can't imagine this wouldn't of been profitable. For example one wave could of had a big $200 Helm's Deep (basically what we got except more UHA walls built into the set and taller with Eomer), a $20-30 Treebeard, a $40-60 Balrog, and a CMF series of 16 minifigures. It could of had the 9 Fellowship members, two Rohan Soldier variants (maybe make one Gamling?), two Uruk-hai (make one a scout?), Lurtz, Saruman, and a Lothlorien Elf all armored out. Each wave could focus on one movie and given us sets mostly from it.

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[naf]

Yep a toy made after MOVIE with MASSIVE battles being its centerpiece and most intriguing parts (if we exclude Fellowship up to falls) should totally be focused on something else...

LOTR is not Super heroes where you should get Superman all the time or Batman or the Avengers....

Your point doesn't really invalidate mine. Who's going to army build? AFOLs. What percentage of sales do AFOLs make up? About 5%. Most parents are going to buy Uruk Hai Army for their kid exactly one time. Unfortunately for army builders, Lego must cater to their core demographic who probably prefers a lot of named characters, with a handful of bad guys for them to fight.

I'm an AFOL, and I'd love to have everything, great location sets and some army builders. But Lego doesn't view their business that way, and I can understand that. If their license was different, they could and probably would sell battle packs like they did in Kingdoms, but they can't.

Darth Caedus seemed to think that everything should be a battle pack, at the expense of removing lower priced sets from very important scenes in the movie. I don't agree with that.

[Darth Caedus]

Darth Caedus seemed to think that everything should be a battle pack, at the expense of removing lower priced sets from very important scenes in the movie. I don't agree with that.

That's not what I said at all. I said every $12.99 set should be a battle pack - a totally reasonable assertion. And even if AFOLs make up only 5% of the market, a superb $12.99 battle pack is something that will be bought in the dozens. There's nothing to indicate that a cool $12.99 set with armybuilders would sell any less than Gandalf's horse and buggy. The Treason of Isengard is, I'll grant you, important, but it's definitely not in the top 10. Gandalf's cart and the Riddle scene don't rate at all - Riddles is a fun sequence from the book but doesn't adapt well to Lego (just like Minas Tirith is too big to depict in Lego, or Mount Doom is too sparse, Riddles is too cerebral. different sides same coin).

But just to show you that I'm not an armybuilder fanatic, here is another set of alternatives that would have included main characters. It's not as good as the ideal (most desirable armybuilders for LOTR and the Hobbit are Gondor, Easterlings, 2nd Age, Mordor Orcs, and Erebor or Iron Hills Dwarves) but it's still leagues better than what we got.

LOTR Wave 1: Lose the Cart. Slot Gandalf into Mines of Moria, cuz why not.

$12.99 - Witch-King Showdown. Eowyn, Merry (helmetless, no new molds), Witchking with flail and spinny-base action. Maybe a catapult for Merry, who cares. Iconic scene that doubles as a functional armybuilder - Eowyn and Merry can be stripped for parts, Witchking is a hoodswap away from being a normal Nazgul.

Hobbit Wave 1: Adjust Riddles for the Ring....

$12.99 - Gollum Ambush. Bilbo with a blue-tinted Sting (painted, printed, whatever, makes it interesting), Gollum with his Smeagol devious plotting face as opposed to the pretty angry one from the set, 1x Goblintown Goblin with sword, a few mushrooms and Gollums boat. Iconic scene that makes Goblins more affordable.

LOTR Wave 2: Lose Wizard Duel, toss true palantir in Orthanc, put a Saruman in TABA DG set.

$12.99 - Defense of Osgiliath. 1x Armored Faramir, 1x Gondorian Soldier, 1x Morgul Orc (pale green skin), small rubble/statue/archway/whatever. Armored Faramir isn't quite scene accurate but who cares, he's a headswap away from being a helmetless Gondorian. If you HAD to make him Ranger form, fine, though it's a more unique outfit that's harder to reuse for generic rangers. Ideally it'd be Madril for the unique slot and not Faramir, but he's not exactly an iconic character, lol.

Edited February 5, 2014 by Darth Caedus

[Hammerhand]

I'm still wondering why Lego didn't just do three LOTR waves, one for each movie. In my opinion, it would've been a good move, rather than randomly split up different scenes from the three movies like they've done. I suppose they might have had a reason, but it's beyond me. I'm still thinking that we're going to get a 3rd wave though. It just make sense to do a third. It probably just got shoved back due to the Hobbit's timing.

Oh, Darth Caedus, that list would be awesome if it was real... We can dream.