LEGO LotR - general discussion

[deskp]

Why does the LOTR lego have to stop just because The Hobbit lego does?

The kids prefer the hobbit.

[Nobrux]

Why does the LOTR lego have to stop just because The Hobbit lego does?

But nobody affirmed or confirmed that LOTR will necessarily stop. For now, we have a lot of rumors and speculations but only a few concrete facts, like the lack of LOTR propaganda in the Hobbit line.

In my opinion, LOTR will go on. That's pure speculation, of course. Just like the other opinions.

[deskp]

Maybe we'll know in february when the toy fairs happens.

[Faefrost]

Why does the LOTR lego have to stop just because The Hobbit lego does?

A roughly paraphrased quote from one of David Robertson's presentations might help explain it.

" in the early 2000's Lego was in trouble. They found that only 3 lines were making a profit. City, Star Wars and Harry Potter. And Harry Potter was only profitable in the given years that a corresponding movie was out."

So you can see why the HP line stopped with the movies. Given that LotR and The Hobbit are pretty much Lego's replacement for HP, and that like HP that license has already been extended by one more unexpected movie, it's a reasonable thought that the Middle Earth themes may quickly fade a few months after TABA releases. Which would give us 3 waves each of LotR and The Hobbit. Overall a very robust theme by Lego standards. You never know. We may get lucky and TLG may view it as another Star Wars type line and continue it. But I am doubtful. Star Wars has been a stand alone merchandising juggernaut from 35 years. LotR's mostly sells books when the movies aren't prominent.

I am real curious what if anything TLG would find to replace LotR's in that slightly older skewing Literary Fantasy niche that they seem to have done well with? (I assume we can rule out Game of Thrones?) Maybe something like ABC Disney's Once Upon a Time?

[Robert_88]

I agree. One wave (LotR and Hobbit) for each Hobbit film seems likely. Four waves would be nice but I don't think this will happen. But I also think that we will not get less then three waves. The third Hobbit wave is already confirmed and I think the second LotR wave would have been different if it had been the last one.

[SheepEater]

And if we don't get a 3rd LOTR wave, let's at least hope for a grand finale set, ala HP Diagon Alley or Medieval Joust

[zylek]

I agree that there must be another LOTR wave, a Fell Beast/Witchking set seems to be a no brainer and since we haven't seen one yet, I would think that implies a third wave. As said before, since they called the Ent that comes with Orthanc just a generic Ent it seems a Treebeard could be planned as well. If they didn't intend to release Treebeard you would have thought they would have had him with Orthanc.

But... since the Hobbit was originally supposed to be two movies, were they intending on releasing a third LOTR after the second/last movie?

[Alcarin]

I agree that there must be another LOTR wave, a Fell Beast/Witchking set seems to be a no brainer and since we haven't seen one yet, I would think that implies a third wave. As said before, since they called the Ent that comes with Orthanc just a generic Ent it seems a Treebeard could be planned as well. If they didn't intend to release Treebeard you would have thought they would have had him with Orthanc.

But... since the Hobbit was originally supposed to be two movies, were they intending on releasing a third LOTR after the second/last movie?

I feel the named Ent just Ent so you could amass them easier you know playing with your brains.... if it was called treebeared people would want 1 only... :D

[SMC]

And how many people buy more than 1 £169.99 sets? not the best ent army builder me thinks.

I agree that wave 2 would have looked very different if it was the planed end but what if it sales have been bad so they are ending sooner, not saying this is what happened. It would be nice to know the plan for this line.

[Proximo]

And if we don't get a 3rd LOTR wave, let's at least hope for a grand finale set, ala HP Diagon Alley or Medieval Joust

We have already got such a set with 10237.

[Alcarin]

And how many people buy more than 1 £169.99 sets? not the best ent army builder me thinks.

I agree that wave 2 would have looked very different if it was the planed end but what if it sales have been bad so they are ending sooner, not saying this is what happened. It would be nice to know the plan for this line.

You are right that notm any buy 170 pounds set multiple times BUT many might want to get rid of the Ent just like I did..... and 1 Ent is alot cheaper separately :)

[Nobrux]

But... since the Hobbit was originally supposed to be two movies, were they intending on releasing a third LOTR after the second/last movie?

In my opinion, the LOTR set list we have so far doesn't quite fit as a final list. It just doesn't make sense having a LOTR line that excludes the most iconic and biggest battle from the movies (siege at Minas Tirith). And it is a castle! Kids love castles!

We have already got such a set with 10237.

Again, a grand finale with Orthanc? Don't you feel this is wrong? I love this set. Nonetheless, I would much rather have a Minas Tirith equivalent instead. I'm pretty sure most of us would do. And I think Lego knows that.

[Mahtion]

Exactly! How many Cuusoo projects are about Mina's Tirith? Lego knows how popular such a set concept would be and it's marketability being a Castle with armored knights. Orthanc seems like a Diagon Alley type set but seems an odd choice for the final hurrah of the line.

I too find it a real possibility that the line has ended but every time I look at Wave 2 it doesn't make sense for Lego to choose the ones they did over the obvious most wanted and likely best selling sets that could have been made.

I agree with Deskp that the Hobbit line is probably more popular and the better seller considering the movie connection, playful set designs and the iconic Bag End.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mahtion

[Proximo]

In my opinion, the LOTR set list we have so far doesn't quite fit as a final list. It just doesn't make sense having a LOTR line that excludes the most iconic and biggest battle from the movies (siege at Minas Tirith). And it is a castle! Kids love castles!

Kids love castles, so far, so true. But that doesn't mean that it is necessary to release a second "King's Castle". There is already a new castle line. By the way: Kids also love pirate ships. This was the reason why they release such a set (most likely), although the corsairships play only a tiny role in the films. As you can see, its more important for Lego to release sets which can be sold instead of release sets which iconic scenes.

Generally: A minas tirith which most people here want to see has to be a set in the 300$/€-league. How many parents out there buy their kids such sets? So your kids-argument doesn't count here anyway. The main target for such expensive sets are AFOL's, but this market is limited.(this is a fact which Lego really knows of) Two sets like 10237 seem to be to much for a line which contains 2, maybe 3 waves. At least for me, it sticks to the fact that we never will see a minas tirith, at least not as a second D2C. (i know it's sad)

Again, a grand finale with Orthanc? Don't you feel this is wrong? I love this set. Nonetheless, I would much rather have a Minas Tirith equivalent instead. I'm pretty sure most of us would do. And I think Lego knows that.

Again, Lego isn't about "wrong feelings", it's just business (as many other people stated out before). We don't know why they choose this set to be the "great finale set". Maybe just because of lower production costs? Maybe some managers at Lego don't like minas tirith? There could be millions of reasons.

For me there are just some serious analogies to other lines. Just a few examples:

10210 for 2009 pirates line

10217 for Harry Potter

10223 for Kingdoms

10193 for last Castle line

...

As far as i see, Lord of the Rings would be not the first line which were ended by a 10XXX-set.

In conclusion, for me Orthanc is a indication that there will be no third wave. The none-promotion of 2014-LOTR's sets in the new Hobbit wave is another.

Of course just indications, so it's not completelly impossible, but i don't think there is much hope for that. I would love to see a third wave as you do.

[Nobrux]

As you can see, its more important for Lego to release sets which can be sold instead of release sets which iconic scenes.

Generally: A minas tirith which most people here want to see has to be a set in the 300$/€-league. How many parents out there buy their kids such sets? So your kids-argument doesn't count here anyway. The main target for such expensive sets are AFOL's, but this market is limited.

I believe the Helm's Deep set most people here initially idealized didn't fit the 120 dollar budget, too. That didn't stop Lego designing an awesome set that not only is affordable to children, but also appealing to AFOL's.

A 300 dollars Minas Tirith set? I've never considered that even in my deepest dreams (ok, maybe once ) . Nonetheless, a 120-200 price range set always seemed a logical business choice to me. That would allow kids and Afol's alike to get a good looking and affordable set with some nice play features. The Cuusoo projects have already showed us that this is possible. Even Lego with Helm's Deep did that.

Therefore, I think the "kid's argument" should not be invalidated at all, even tough it doesn't prove anything.

[Alcarin]

I believe the Helm's Deep set most people here initially idealized didn't fit the 120 dollar budget, too. That didn't stop Lego designing an awesome set that not only is affordable to children, but also appealing to AFOL's.

A 300 dollars Minas Tirith set? I've never considered that even in my deepest dreams (ok, maybe once ) . Nonetheless, a 120-200 price range set always seemed a logical business choice to me. That would allow kids and Afol's alike to get a good looking and affordable set with some nice play features. The Cuusoo projects have already showed us that this is possible. Even Lego with Helm's Deep did that.

Therefore, I think the "kid's argument" should not be invalidated at all, even tough it doesn't prove anything.

Good looking Minas Tirith for 120-200$ ???

Are you high?

A GOOD looking Minas Tirith would cost 500$+ and would come with 40 minifigs....

[Proximo]

I believe the Helm's Deep set most people here initially idealized didn't fit the 120 dollar budget, too. That didn't stop Lego designing an awesome set that not only is affordable to children, but also appealing to AFOL's. A 300 dollars Minas Tirith set? I've never considered that even in my deepest dreams (ok, maybe once ) . Nonetheless, a 120-200 price range set always seemed a logical business choice to me.

Maybe you could do that, but firstly that would not be the "last big set" because Orthanc is simply larger, and secondly a Minas Tirith like this would be absolutely dissatisfying for most people here (including me). Overall if there isn't a third wave at all we won't see Minas Tirith either way.

As for cuusso: For me this whole thing is more a marketing gag than a real chance for Lego fans to get thier own sets. Motto: Look, we are interested in you!

But as far as i can remember there is not one single cuusso set with more than 500 pieces. It seems that smaller and cheaper sets have far better chances to become real sets.

And a Minas Tirith which contains only 500 pieces may be to optimistic.

A GOOD looking Minas Tirith would cost 500$+ and would come with 40 minifigs....

I would order it, but not for my kids.

[Deathleech]

The only problem with that theory is a lot of wave 2 sets also made little sense from a market stand point if you are marketing to children. Can you honestly tell me kids want a Council of Elrond set over a Balrog duel with a huge awesome looking brick built Balrog, Gandalf, a couple of Mordor Orcs with cool new helm molds, and TONS of play features (Balrog with swinging "whip" arm, breakable bridge and stairs, etc.)? Instead we got Council of Elrond which has swivel chairs and a flip for Gimli. Yes the scene is iconic in the movie and I am sure hardcore fans and AFOLS alike eat it up, especially with all the nice pieces for MOCs, but from a child's perspective I just cant imagine it's that interesting.

So a Balrog set MIGHT not be made because the Balrog is seen as too demonic to some? Ok then why not a Mumakil set? Again you get a cool, interesting looking creature which sells the set itself to kids, but then you add to it nice features and unique figures and how can't that be a home run for everyone? For play features you have an exploding platform to emulate Legolas cutting it and it sliding off, flick fire missiles on the platform that actually make sense, and the Mumakil could even have a swinging head/trunk feature or rear up like they do in the movies. For minifigs you have a few Haradrim, the Haradrim chief, Legolas, maybe even a new unique Rohan Soldier or Eowyn with Rohan Merry (if they arnt going to be in any other set). Seems like a no brainer.

I am not saying I disagree with your theory because Lego has definetly skipped sets and characters that seem like no brainers to us in other themes. Minas Tirith is also probably hard to tackle due to its scale and complexity. It's just really REALLY hard to imagine no Eowyn, Witch King, Faramir, or even one Gondor set with Gondor Soldiers. If they were going to really end the theme after only two waves why not make the second wave have six sets instead of four and include a Witch King vs Eowyn battle and an Osgiliath army builder set? I am sure these would of sold fairly well. And could of easily wrapped up the missing main characters. As is the Lego LotR line only feels about 60-75% complete from a very basic stand point, and if you include all the lesser supporting characters and locations like Gothmog, Treebeard, Drenethor, etc. its much more.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Deathleech

[Proximo]

The only problem with that theory is a lot of wave 2 sets also made little sense from a market stand point if you are marketing to children. Can you honestly tell me kids want a Council of Elrond set over a Balrog duel with a huge awesome looking brick built Balrog, Gandalf, a couple of Mordor Orcs with cool new helm molds, and TONS of play features (Balrog with swinging "whip" arm, breakable bridge and stairs, etc.)? Instead we got Council of Elrond which has swivel chairs and a flip for Gimli. Yes the scene is iconic in the movie and I am sure hardcore fans and AFOLS alike eat it up, especially with all the nice pieces for MOCs, but from a child's perspective I just cant imagine it's that interesting.

I never said something different. It should be clear that the whole LOTR line is mainly aimed at a older audience or even adults, but this applies for expensive exclusives even more. Therefore it's very very unlikely that we will get another set like Orthanc, because i think the market for that is to small.

So a Balrog set MIGHT not be made because the Balrog is seen as too demonic to some? Ok then why not a Mumakil set? Again you get a cool, interesting looking creature which sells the set itself to kids, but then you add to it nice features and unique figures and how can't that be a home run for everyone? For play features you have an exploding platform to emulate Legolas cutting it and it sliding off, flick fire missiles on the platform that actually make sense, and the Mumakil could even have a swinging head/trunk feature or rear up like they do in the movies. For minifigs you have a few Haradrim, the Haradrim chief, Legolas, maybe even a new unique Rohan Soldier or Eowyn with Rohan Merry (if they arnt going to be in any other set). Seems like a no brainer.

The decisions which sets were produced and which not are often confusing (for me). I call it "Lego-logic", it would be interesting who exactly makes this decisions.

In any case, it ever was and still is very difficult to forecast which sets we will see.

I am not saying I disagree with your theory because Lego has definetly skipped sets and characters that seem like no brainers to us in other themes. Minas Tirith is also probably hard to tackle due to its scale and complexity. It's just really REALLY hard to imagine no Eowyn, Witch King, Faramir, or even one Gondor set with Gondor Soldiers. If they were going to really end the theme after only two waves why not make the second wave have six sets instead of four and include a Witch King vs Eowyn battle and an Osgiliath army builder set? I am sure these would of sold fairly well. And could of easily wrapped up the missing main characters. As is the Lego LotR line only feels about 60-75% complete from a very basic stand point, and if you include all the lesser supporting characters and locations like Gothmog, Treebeard, Drenethor, etc. its much more.

Well, i think nobody here will disagree with you by saying that there are a lot of missing characters. The problem for me is, that there will be always some characters which will be missing. Even after 4,5,6 waves there will be still some figures left which could be made. And even if all characters became minifigures, than you will observe the same thing which could be easy observed for Star Wars: Some people pop up and argue: "but we need X in Y" or "we still need X with another print/face/armor and because of this there has to be another wave". In my opinion this arguments are insignificant for Lego. The most important question will be, if the released sets are profitable enough or not. Since we get no information about sale figures of specific lines we could only speculate and this is quite mindless for me. But i think if the first wave would have sold like hot cake, the second wave would have been bigger.

I'm still not saying that a third wave is impossible, but with the points i already make in my upper post, it becomes more unlikely for me. At least nobody can complain about the fact that we don't get a big (last) set, because we simply get one, even if this set was not the most wanted one.

At last, i still hope Lego will prove me wrong.

[Blazej_Holen]

I never said something different. It should be clear that the whole LOTR line is mainly aimed at a older audience or even adults, but this applies for expensive exclusives even more. Therefore it's very very unlikely that we will get another set like Orthanc, because i think the market for that is to small.

The decisions which sets were produced and which not are often confusing (for me). I call it "Lego-logic", it would be interesting who exactly makes this decisions.

In any case, it ever was and still is very difficult to forecast which sets we will see.

Well, i think nobody here will disagree with you by saying that there are a lot of missing characters. The problem for me is, that there will be always some characters which will be missing. Even after 4,5,6 waves there will be still some figures left which could be made. And even if all characters became minifigures, than you will observe the same thing which could be easy observed for Star Wars: Some people pop up and argue: "but we need X in Y" or "we still need X with another print/face/armor and because of this there has to be another wave". In my opinion this arguments are insignificant for Lego. The most important question will be, if the released sets are profitable enough or not. Since we get no information about sale figures of specific lines we could only speculate and this is quite mindless for me. But i think if the first wave would have sold like hot cake, the second wave would have been bigger.

I'm still not saying that a third wave is impossible, but with the points i already make in my upper post, it becomes more unlikely for me. At least nobody can complain about the fact that we don't get a big (last) set, because we simply get one, even if this set was not the most wanted one.

At last, i still hope Lego will prove me wrong.

I agree and disagree all in one time :) Thera are actually missing KEY character which are in general most recognisible for LOTR, and they are Whitch King of Angmar, Eowyn, Gondor Knight and maybe Faramir and Gothmog. Also There should be some Troll in armor like in RoTF, when Minas Tirith was under the siege. Other characters like Denethor, other orcs, knights of Rohan are adjustable.

In my opinion TLG wil do a HUGE mistake if the discontinue the LOTR line, but also I can Imagine that they dont want to create/design a Minas tirith set, because its almost imposible to do it with a key detail and locations and keep the price on a ground. Maybe they could create an exclusive set like Orthanc, but it will be mostly for AFOLS. Not everyone, icluding me can buy these sets like "every day" I wait quite a time to get Tower of Orthanc set because its pricey - yeah 199 Dollars (4.999,- czech crounds) are not much but I have a rent to pay, car to take care about, girlfriend and other duties, so I cannot simply effort to buy a "toy" for 1/5-1/6 of my sallary :)

But its definitely nice to have it.

I dont agree that this huge set is the last one, or was the last one from the beginning. It could be last one from TT subtheme, but not the last one of all the line.

What we can hope for is this realistic wishes:

Pellenor fields battle/Whitch king showdown - set whit fell beast, king of nazguls, maybe Theoden on white horse with barding, Rohan -knight or Eowyn and possibly Merry in rohan armor (like in the video game)

Minas Morgul or at least front gate and some wall and in the best - the tower - maybe this set will include Gothmog, some orcs but is it enough for set? There should be other unique or key characters...

Mount Doom, with a little structure of entrance and walkway..with Frodo and Sam in orc armour, and Gollum?

Mirror of Galadriel - really? Maybe yes, but again Frodod in a shirt? For what? I understand that there should be a cheap set like 12.99 or whatever, but where is the point? Lorien wil be better...or a Ship from Grey Heavens, with Galadriel, Celeborn, old Bilbo...?

Minas Tirith - definitely if there will be third wave, it will include Minas Tirith. And Figs? Dunno...Yes there should be some knights of gondor with new moulded helmets and shields. Torso will have printed armor (grrrrr) and maybe there will also be a worshiped Denethor or Faramir. And what else? Pipin in gondor amror? Gothmog, 2 orc and a troll? Possibly Grond? No Grond..please, it will stole brics from Minas Tirith structure :D

So these are the options.. Is it enough for 3th wave or not?

Btw I guess that everyone noticed - there are the figs from "3th wave" in a game LOTR

There is:

Pippin - Gondor armor

Merry - Rohan armor

Whitch King + Fell Beast

Eowyn in armor

Eowyn without armor

Rohan royal guard

Gondorian knight

Gothmog

Faramir

Ranger of Ithilien

Denethor

Theoden in his royal dress

Theoden cursed

so..? :)

They already create Grima and Saruman..and it was the same case...

[Fives]

I think the theory that the Balrog looks too 'demonic' is weird. Anything depicting the evil characters in Middle-Earth technically looks demonic. Orthanc, a huge spiky black tower, doesn't really scream happiness when I look at it. Same can be said for The Black Gate, or even Dol Guldur.

Sure, the Balrog kinda transcends the level of demonic look due to the fact that it basically is a living demon in Middle-Earth, but it is so outrageously iconic and pivotal to the story that for LEGO to ignore it is folly. The people who likely would buy the set would already be familiar with LOTR and know what the Balrog is, and those who find it offensive just don't need to buy it.

I bring up the argument of Harry Potter. Harry Potter, as a story and franchise, has not been accepted by many religious groups. The witchcraft in the story is viewed as offensive to many, yet that didn't stop LEGO from making a ridiculously popular theme based on the films. The Balrog argument, in my eyes, is no different. While some may find certain aspects of LOTR as too offensive or suggestive, the majority of people are fine with it. For LEGO to suddenly make these efforts to avoid offending too many people just doesn't make sense. While they've been sensitive to their consumers around the world, they've never avoided producing as set due too religious symbols or beliefs. If they had been so sensitive in the past to all the beliefs of people in the world (religious or otherwise), then half the sets they've ever produced wouldn't have been put into production to begin with.

[Risgrynsgrot]

I think the theory that the Balrog looks too 'demonic' is weird. Anything depicting the evil characters in Middle-Earth technically looks demonic. Orthanc, a huge spiky black tower, doesn't really scream happiness when I look at it. Same can be said for The Black Gate, or even Dol Guldur.

Sure, the Balrog kinda transcends the level of demonic look due to the fact that it basically is a living demon in Middle-Earth, but it is so outrageously iconic and pivotal to the story that for LEGO to ignore it is folly. The people who likely would buy the set would already be familiar with LOTR and know what the Balrog is, and those who find it offensive just don't need to buy it

There's way too many people that care way too much over things they don't have anything to do with. I mean, if people tought that Jabbas Palace looks like a Mosque http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267062/Lego-accused-racism-Turkish-community-say-toy-offensive-based-mosque.html there's gonna be tons of people that's gonna start claiming that LEGO is satanic and is trying to sell satanic toys to children.

Look, I get your Harry Potter argument, and that's true, but the Balrog is in a completely different league. The jackson Balrog is a very stereotypical portrayal of the devil. Huge. Red. With horns. That's enough to make normal people that hasn't heard about LOTR ask why LEGO is making LEGO Devils.

I do wish that we'd get a LEGO Balrog, but I don't think we will.

[Blazej_Holen]

There's way too many people that care way too much over things they don't have anything to do with. I mean, if people tought that Jabbas Palace looks like a Mosque http://www.dailymail...sed-mosque.html there's gonna be tons of people that's gonna start claiming that LEGO is satanic and is trying to sell satanic toys to children.

Look, I get your Harry Potter argument, and that's true, but the Balrog is in a completely different league. The jackson Balrog is a very stereotypical portrayal of the devil. Huge. Red. With horns. That's enough to make normal people that hasn't heard about LOTR ask why LEGO is making LEGO Devils.

I do wish that we'd get a LEGO Balrog, but I don't think we will.

Lego devil might be good. Personaly, in these days? Who cares about "scary suffs"? Look at the video games, internet and so on..

[Blakstone]

I think we will get one more wave of LotR this summer. LEGO has shown that they are willing to allow a popular line end once their is no more media support for it (Pirates of the Caribbean and Harry Potter) so I doubt 2015 will see any LotR sets.

I think we have learned from CUUSOO that LEGO has their own internal set review. I imagine that a Balrog set, Minas Tirith set, and many more were proposed. Perhaps they needed more tweeking or so other sets were rated better out of review or play testing.

The link to the Jabba Palace controversy is a good example that there was controversy after word of the set was released but that did not change TLG's plans. In that case, I think the Turkish Community has a valid point... against Lucas but not TLG.

[Blazej_Holen]

And btw these occuses about Jabbas Pallace are really sick. Words like this can say anybody on everything...