Conversation to end all "I wish Lego used this" conversations.

[gmshades]

So many people on this forum complain that if Lego uses pneumatics, they should have used actuators. If Lego used actuators, they should have used pneumatics. Or, to use or not to use motors in a kit.

My solution to these arguements, If you don't like how Lego designed a set, change it, and show it.

Then, you will have the set of your dreams, and give others ideas to maybe change their own kit. I have started this with my manual 9397 Log Truck topic because I'm tired of motors taking all the fun out of a set. It's my opinion, not law.

[TechnicMati]

I totally agree with you. Lego technic is about creativity, giving some ideas a try. Of course one can built just from instructions that have been given by TLG but the whole fun and satisfaction starts when one tries to modify, share his/her ideas with others. This is why me as an adult chose Lego Technic as my hobby instead of whole ready built rc models industry (which is cheaper) just because Lego gives such big possibilities to modify and build my very own creations - MOCs. So when I see somebody complaining about something used or not used in a new lego set I just smile and laugh a little. This is what Lego is all about - MODYFYING, building MOCs.

Edited January 14, 2013 by TechnicMati

[allanp]

And exactly how am I supposed to change the size of a clutch gear or have different coloured 5x7 and 5x11 frames in a purist way .

Edited January 14, 2013 by allanp

[Lasse D]

Threads like this usually lack a context. This is no exception. Where are the complaints in question?

[mobi]

Sometimes change is not possible by end user. For example,

I like old boxes which had transparent cover so that I could see parts before opening the box (Lego did that before).

I like printed instruction for both models (Lego did that before).

I like motors not included with every set but instructions given for motorizing.

[kieran]

Sometimes change is not possible by end user. For example,

I like old boxes which had transparent cover so that I could see parts before opening the box (Lego did that before).

I like printed instruction for both models (Lego did that before).

I like motors not included with every set but instructions given for motorizing.

funny, I really miss the old boxes as well, not sure it was just the wonder of a young boy or just a better way to present the product, I liked the way the new or special pieces received special treatment in their own plastic tray, oh well the good old days I guess. I like building sets as Lego designed then, changing them up and creating things from scratch, so to me Lego is the perfect building medium, however you look at it

[Zerobricks]

Sorry for my crude language but this is just botching because of bitching...

Of course people have their opinions and yes lateley there seems to be more complaints, but last few years TLG actually listenes to ideas (orange panels unimog, trial truck-rock crawler, servo motors, the wheels on the grand pix car, etc...)

[Meatman]

Without criticism, how is anyone supposed to get feedback for future improvements/changes?

[andythenorth]

Context? Browse any thread discussing new releases, and many of the review threads. High-drama whining is pretty easy to find (as also is constructive, thoughtful criticism).

Whining is not unique to technic forum, there's just as much of it in the town and train forums, or maybe even more. The castle forum also appears to be full of people who think the sky is falling following the release of new castle sets.

My guess is that some significant percentage of Eurobricks posters see Lego as a collectable, not a creative construction toy. Modifying a TLG design seems to be an alien idea to these people.

Of course, and for the avoidance of doubt, I respect the right of these people to pursue their hobby, even if it is uncreative, unimaginative and apparently not very fulfilling (these people seem to be very unhappy).

[shadowhearth]

Finally, finally someone manned up and made such thread! ( again ) I was waiting for it, and it is finally here! ball is rolling so ill just add up!

*I just completely hate how independent eurobricks forum is! Can you imagine?! in 21st century people are allowed to discuss topics. Madness. Its a step too far. This thing "forums" is a bane of our society and should not be tolerated!

*These forums, should be changed. There should be only allowed two types of topics. On type would be complete praise of Set X, MOC X. the other type of threads should be "I am not happy with all this, you should be too, lets show our unhappiness by making this thread"

*Opinions should be completely banned. The only thing you can say in any single thread: "This is great, awesome, lovely, amazing". you might use "Very cool, but i am not a fan of it", but it is if you are very cheeky. usually it will mean that you will get a 24h ban for such statement. Its for people who love to be cool and live on the edge.

*Criticism should not be allowed on these lands. Surely criticism gives improvement in the long run, but hurting someone's feelings, because their creation is a bit off and could use some changes to make it better is play WRONG! Think of the FEELINGS first! Criticism is devils evil right hand!!!

*NO MORE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK! ONLY GOOD! EVERYTHING IS PERFECT! NO OPINION! MEEEEE! MEEEEEE! MEEEEEE! * turns in to sheep and runs off!

*sarcastic mode overloaded and host exploded taking half of the small town population.

[DarkShadow73]

Sometimes change is not possible by end user. For example,

I like old boxes which had transparent cover so that I could see parts before opening the box (Lego did that before).

I like printed instruction for both models (Lego did that before).

I like motors not included with every set but instructions given for motorizing.

The days of the transparent covers are long gone...believe they ended in the late 90's...

In many sets there are pitfalls to pneumatics over LA's...say the 8455, it is one of my favorites, but the constant pumping of the pneumatics is a pain but it looks great on a shelf...as far as LA's they have their place in many sets and do a lot of functions w/ PF added that are unbelievable...just my take

[Anio]

*Criticism should not be allowed on these lands. Surely criticism gives improvement in the long run, but hurting someone's feelings, because their creation is a bit off and could use some changes to make it better is play WRONG! Think of the FEELINGS first! Criticism is devils evil right hand!!!

*NO MORE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK! ONLY GOOD! EVERYTHING IS PERFECT! NO OPINION! MEEEEE! MEEEEEE! MEEEEEE! * turns in to sheep and runs off!

It appears to me that you are missing something.

For example, saying that Lego should have made 8258 or 42009 with 2 more motors for the model to drive and steer remotely, it is not a constructive criticism. It is a noob comment from someone who does not understand the goals of a set, what adds value to a Lego model, and what an official set has to comply with. :/

[shadowhearth]

It appears to me that you are missing something.

For example, saying that Lego should have made 8258 or 42009 with 2 more motors for the model to drive and steer remotely, it is not a constructive criticism. It is a noob comment from someone who does not understand the goals of a set, what adds value to a Lego model, and what an official set has to comply with. :/

Well opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one. Just because someone said something it does not make it right or wrong. Its opinion. That is the beauty of common sense.

[Anio]

Well opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one. Just because someone said something it does not make it right or wrong. Its opinion. That is the beauty of common sense.

I guess you never spoke with a Lego designer.

A Lego set is not well designed because someone claim it is well designed. It is well designed because the designer made tons of skecth models to find the best compromise.

Ok, ok, there are some rare exceptions where we can see some problems and some questionable design choices. But overall, 99% the official models are very well thought with clever choices. Cleverer choices than most AFOLs do with their own MOCs. And it is just "normal" if you consider the time a Lego designer spend on each of his models. :)

Edited January 14, 2013 by Anio

[jadedomg]

The point of lego is to have fun, what is more fun then seeing a great set then thinking how to add to it once you have it? It could be as simple as changing the colour scheme to adding remote control or just adding to the playability with some minor tweaks. Why leave a set the way it came when you can pull it apart!

This is a discussion board so people discussing how to change models after they come out isn't a insult to lego designers or the choices they had to make.

Just because you have a idea how to change a set doesn't mean you have the parts or skill to do it at the moment and everyone should feel free to tell everyone the ideas they have.

[andythenorth]

Well opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one. Just because someone said something it does not make it right or wrong. Its opinion. That is the beauty of common sense.

I'm not understanding this (my bad, sorry). Opinions are neither right or wrong? Or opinions are either right or wrong?

Edited January 14, 2013 by andythenorth

[Lipko]

The topic is getting to linguistic heights

[shadowhearth]

I guess you never spoke with a Lego designer.

A Lego set is not well designed because someone claim it is well designed. It is well designed because the designer made tons of skecth models to find the best compromise.

Ok, ok, there are some rare exceptions where we can see some problems and some questionable design choices. But overall, 99% the official models are very well thought with clever choices. Cleverer choices than most AFOLs do with their own MOCs. And it is just "normal" if you consider the time a Lego designer spend on each of his models. :)

Aye, hands down. Lego designers have really clever solution when it comes to the set models. In fairness only after you have it fully built you can see it all come together and go " Awwwwwwww, now thats clever". They really think out their build and make some simple solution a bit more too complicated, but i guess it is a good thing. It shows you how to do it hard way and you can improve on it, or even better: it will teach you that particular technique so you can use it in your own mocs. I know a lot of people are not fans of 4x4 crawler, but while I was working on its chassis I really though it was a very cool and interesting design choice. Overcomplicated, but it was still very very clever and interesting.

I guess the only thing that i would love Lego to improve on is colour choice. In 42000 review it is called "color vomit", which is very accurate description of a problem. Colours can be all over the place. I was not expecting any yellow parts in 42000, but holy Bejaysus they went mad with it in engine bay. I know why lego is doing it and as an adult i understand, whatever helps fellow younger lego brother is always good. If lego can, maybe it could improve colour choice. I really dislike the blue pin move. I loved when those were neutral black.

I'm not understanding this (my bad, sorry). Opinions are neither right or wrong? Or opinions are either right or wrong?

Opinion is opinion, it is not right or wrong. You as individual can agree or disagree with it.

In my opinion the flagship model of 2013 is bad or "meh". This is my opinion. Its not right or wrong. Other person will say that it is a great choice, because A, B and C. That is his opinion and it is not right or wrong. Thats the beauty of forums like this where opinions clash. One side can help out other side to understand things on the subject. For example i was completely opposed flagship as a crane, but it really grows on me now and it does interest me a lot. I never built cranes, so something like this might be a lot of fun and i could learn more. All thanks to having both sides having a say on it.

Obviously you get people who are just plain DUMB and all they care is: ITS NOT 100% LIKE I WANTED!!!!! Thats why we got a gift of common sense, where we can ignore those people and have an adult discussion with the ones who understand how the world works ;).

[Anio]

In 42000 review it is called "color vomit"

What you call color vomit can be explained. Colors are not choosen randomly. ;)

But I doubt it is the right thread to explain this.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Anio

[andythenorth]

Obviously you get people who are just plain DUMB and all they care is: ITS NOT 100% LIKE I WANTED!!!!! Thats why we got a gift of common sense, where we can ignore those people and have an adult discussion with the ones who understand how the world works ;).

K, but why not just drive them away or teach them how to behave by saying stuff like 'take your unconstructive whining into a dark room and stay there until you're a better person'?

Opinion is opinion, boring unconstructive whining is boring unconstructive whining eh? Some forums don't put up with it.

[Meatman]

I guess I must be the only one who actually likes the colors on the 42000.

[shadowhearth]

I guess I must be the only one who actually likes the colors on the 42000.

you are missing the point. I personally LOVE red/white theme. For someone like me the issue is that they mixed in colours that should not be in there. I dont like yellow bits in engine bay and fully black chassis would look a lot better. Like it or not, there is a reason why they use some of those random colours. It is to help younger builder, which is something that makes sense and we should just respect that as it is a Child's Toy.

[Lipko]

I guess I must be the only one who actually likes the colors on the 42000.

Nope. The only reason I don't really like it is that I don't want white panels for MOCs. And for the color vomit issue, I like it usually. I like that not everything is so obviously colored, like body is red, chassis is black, gears are grey. Wooo, I'm a better designer than TLG. However, in the 42000 colors do seem too random. the Unimog was way better with the red and yellow axle connectors. in my opinion.

[allanp]

body is red, chassis is black, gears are grey. Wooo, I'm a better designer than TLG.

Nobody is saying that. What i'm saying is that with instructions being so overly simplified and having 1:1 diagrams to show the length of every beam and axle the designers should be allowed to make more aesthetically pleasing colour choices. This is an example of a constructive critism that need not be taken offensively by anyone. Just lately there seems to be a trend of bitching and whining about any opinion that's anything other than "wow, everything they do is perfect". I love technic but nothing is perfect, everything can be made to be even better than it already is. Progress and continual improvement does NOT come from sitting around saying everything is just dandy which makes constructive critisisms a valuble asset to TLG. If somebody is going on a date and has bad breath, a polite stranger won't say anything, but a friend will tell them.

Edited January 15, 2013 by allanp

[Lipko]

I'm not on the "everything they do is perfect" side, I say that the colors of 42000 is too random for example. It's just the color randomness is not evil by itself, as many posts imply. And about the overly simplified instructions, I like them, for example. And I can build just fine. It's just a matter of opinion (where there are other aspects than complexity). The simplified instructions also looks evil reading these posts.

Feedback is important, but the "everything sucks" feel is just um... sucks