Has POTC crossed the line? Should Lego follow?

[SirScottLego]

Okay POTC is building an empire out of blurring the line between historical reality and adventure fiction. With immortal tortured souls, to a kraken, to hammer head shark sailors, the trilogy has really incorporated fantasy into the overall plot.

My question is... how do you feel about building fantasy into Lego themes? Megablok's (cursed be the name) pirate line is almost devoid of historical soliders and is really heavy with fictional sea monsters and cursed ships... Do you like this approach?

Personally, I love the historical and mostly accurate approach to building but I can see the enjoyment of bringing some of the fantasy in to- what do you think?

[JackDagger]

My question is... how do you feel about building fantasy into Lego themes? Megablok's (cursed be the name) pirate line is almost devoid of historical soliders and is really heavy with fictional sea monsters and cursed ships... Do you like this approach?

Personally, I love the historical and mostly accurate approach to building but I can see the enjoyment of bringing some of the fantasy in to- what do you think?

I love the idea of incorporating fantasy into the the Pirate theme. I think the kraken, ghost ship all of that stuff is great when PotC does it because they loosely (very loosely) base it off things.

The flying dutchman isn't something they just made up, its a real legend that they embellished. The kraken sn't made up either and i love it, one of my fondest memories is of the scene in disney's 20,000 leagues under the sea with the giant squid.

Also IMO we're dealing with little blocky men here, how historically accurate do we need to be? If i really wanted that i would be pushing around little metal men that i painted worried about a bulky and hard to interpret rules system.

But there is a point in which one could go over board, and i think that's when fantasy that doesn't fit the pirates era is introduced, like wizards, orcs, dragons, you know the stuff that should be on another website

[oo7]

Hmm, there is a thread 99% exaclty like this one right here, and it's pretty recent too. Maybe we should continue this discussion there. ;-)

[El Bucanero]

Okay POTC is building an empire out of blurring the line between historical reality and adventure fiction. With immortal tortured souls, to a cracken, to hammer head shark sailors, the trilogy has really incorporated fantasy into the overall plot.

My question is... how do you feel about building fantasy into Lego themes? Megablok's (cursed be the name) pirate line is almost devoid of historical soliders and is really heavy with fictional sea monsters and cursed ships... Do you like this approach?

Personally, I love the historical and mostly accurate approach to building but I can see the enjoyment of bringing some of the fantasy in to- what do you think?

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with the fantasy in POTC, and I would love to see a lego kraken! However

there is a dark side on it, for example, the kraken could be am ugly 2-part creature or something, the ships, probarly with a 4+ hull and way too short armed with technic cannons.

About your question: The viking Dragons are also fantasy, and it didn't came out that bad. But I don't love the approach of cursed ships and fictional sea monsters... un-cursed ships do the job as well :-)

The first Pirate theme I like THAT approach

[SkaForHire]

Okay POTC is building an empire out of blurring the line between historical reality and adventure fiction. With immortal tortured souls, to a cracken, to hammer head shark sailors, the trilogy has really incorporated fantasy into the overall plot.

My question is... how do you feel about building fantasy into Lego themes? Megablok's (cursed be the name) pirate line is almost devoid of historical soliders and is really heavy with fictional sea monsters and cursed ships... Do you like this approach?

Personally, I love the historical and mostly accurate approach to building but I can see the enjoyment of bringing some of the fantasy in to- what do you think?

Well, I think there's nothing wrong with the fantasy in POTC, and I would love to see a lego kraken! However

there is a dark side on it, for example, the kraken could be am ugly 2-part creature or something, the ships, probarly with a 4+ hull and way too short armed with technic cannons.

About your question: The viking Dragons are also fantasy, and it didn't came out that bad. But I don't love the approach of cursed ships and fictional sea monsters... un-cursed ships do the job as well :-)

The first Pirate theme I like THAT approach

I have been thinking how exactly could lego bring back the theme...

it is true vikings pretty much fight sea monsters, which is a shame because kids will get board and may not realize that vikings are also good for raiding their castle(if you want to call KK2 that) stuff... but poor vikings don't have thier own real, inteligent enemy. they are going to faill. no conflict = no play, kids need to be told what to start imagining about, they can take it from there but if you limit them... then they are going to get bored. i love those vikings tho...

So with that said... a new pirates theme should not be just about krakens and other giant meanies.... perhpas undead pirates are fine... they are atleast a faction to fight... but i would like to see something more classic (but perhhaps a little fantasy set in...)

What I came up with was this for a new nautical pirate theme:

Generic Title: the great treasure hunt... (yeah i know pirates didn't really bury treasure, but its a common myth that kids know)

There are three "factions" they are all sent out by the king to go find this mysterious treasure somewhere in the west indies. I think this could provide lego with a way to use its recent marketing promo abilities to generate a story for kids to see and play with.... ie like exoforce... the problem with vikings was they had no dynamic personality, the marketing was bad for kids.... whereas i think they really released those sets for AFOLs and older kids that have more self starting imaginations...

The largest ship in the line would belong to the "flamboyant" merchant who is over confident in his ability to bring home the treasure... his faction would have the "prettyest, bigest, and most grande ship" there faction could also include small sets that are small parties to go onto the islands to look for the treasure...

The second largest ship, and the "bad guy" faction would be a rough pirateesque (if not a full blown pirate, or a previous pirate) man and his crew. their ship would be slightly smaller, or medium sized. Their faction would include small sets that were "raiding" parties and tresure hunters. The personality of these characters would be that of perhaps sam sinister from adventureres... theses guys just want to get out there and get the tresure. They don't care if they have to battle the other people for it or even steal it! They could even have control of the waters around the island with the tresure, and not be sent on the hunt at all... this owuld make them more pirate then anything.

the third faction would be the more "heroic" model. His ship, the smallest yet perhaps medium size would be full of adventurers, which is also the motivation for their quest for the tresure. they want to see the world. They may often have to come to the rescue of the merchant, or they may even have to fight him if need be! but they are good guys in all sense of the word. their small sets would be explorer based

Also there would have to be a large, medium and a couple small islands, where TLG would market that "you as the legomaniac will decide where the tresure is and who will find it first"

This theme would make it different from old pirates but not drasticly... it also gives a sense of personal adventure for the player...

It could easily have a follow up year...

The third faction guy gets a new ship! a larger model...

enter royal forces into the waters to protect from pirates...

Pirate invasion! more pirates then ever are in the waters...

IF TLG is reading, go ahead and steal the idea LOL.... i just want more pieces to create ships with LMAO... heck i would design the whole line for free if i got to keep the pieces hehehe

This is the kind of theme i would like to see... i know its a little off topic... but i have been kicking it around for the last couple of days.

[SirScottLego]

Great discussion. Thanks oo7 for pointing out a similiar thread, I do hope there is some merit discussing this here in that I would love to see this center on the whole pirate genre however.

Ska- what a brilliant imagination. I love the Treasure seeker ideas! Sign me up to your newsletter! *sweet*

JackDagger and Tiber, I think you have some strong valid points.

The one thing that fantasy and imagination allow is a bridging of themes. I've often thought that you could marry pirate, castle and even some adventure (amazon temple) together with a conceptual story i.e. Treasure seekers of the 1700's. Heck you can even use many of the Western and Viking wood for outposts.

I just want to see 'pirates' as the central theme. Great comments.

[Berry Syedow]

SkaForHire, I like your idea. I can't see a king sending "factions" to get a treasure. If he was British for example, then the imperial army would hunt around for the treasure and then the pirates and adventurers/explorers would learn about what the king is doing and follow suit.

We could go even further: An explorer on his deathbed reveals a huge hidden treasure in a far away region. News about this treasure spreads across Europe until the French, Spanish, British, Dutch, etc. are all after it. The pirates also learn about the treasure and some decide to wait till it's discovered and then attack the merchant vessels when they're most vulnerable. Other elite explorers would compete with the other nations to find it first.

[SkaForHire]

SkaForHire, I like your idea. I can't see a king sending "factions" to get a treasure. If he was British for example, then the imperial army would hunt around for the treasure and then the pirates and adventurers/explorers would learn about what the king is doing and follow suit.

We could go even further: An explorer on his deathbed reveals a huge hidden treasure in a far away region. News about this treasure spreads across Europe until the French, Spanish, British, Dutch, etc. are all after it. The pirates also learn about the treasure and some decide to wait till it's discovered and then attack the merchant vessels when they're most vulnerable. Other elite explorers would compete with the other nations to find it first.

yeah i know it wasn't realistic, just trying to think of a good "lego" feeling theme. But the rumor of treasure works pretty well too, it gets the adventurers out there without having to ask, "um so what does the king model look like?" lol but anyway... another reason i neglected nationalities at the begining was that they tend to localize lego. (which i would love to see a theme like that where all of different nations are involved... but that would be a much larger release then Lego normaly produces, unless you started with a couple countries and released a new one or two each year.)

i actually have to go so cant finish this now...

[oo7]

Or everyone could keep on posting stuff and completly ignore my comment, that works too. :-)

[SirScottLego]

Yes oo7 you are right there is another discussion going on centering on the the Reality v. Fantasy discussion

I think however Skaforhire has taken this a new direction which is kind of fun to follow. (Maybe we should encourage him to start a new thread with his ideas, I'd love to explore his plots)

From what I see that discussion in the other thread is "macro lego" and we are talking "micro" or pirate specific. I honestly didn't know that other thread was going on if I did that would have made me a pirate indeed! ;-)

So to modify the purpose of this thread to keep in harmony with my original intent, I would like to ask, In terms of the Lego Pirate Theme-had it continued would you have liked to have seen in go more "romantic" history as Mister Phes points out, or pure fantasy as POTC is leaning? and is there a difference?

[Mister Phes]

Hmm, there is a thread 99% exaclty like this one right here, and it's pretty recent too. Maybe we should continue this discussion there. ;-)

My answer to this question is in the other thread but question of this thread is somewhat different. So as long as this thread remains a Pirate related discussion only then that will justify its existence. At some point in the future when I have more time I'll copy & paste my answer over here.

[ghoulrealm]

You can have a stimulating theme without mythical or paranormal aspects, but why not include them.

Even if TLC decides not to include those features, my mocs will, as it is my forte.

Pirate theme is an exellent base to moc all kinds of creatures, mythical and real.

The paranormal and myhtical culture is the best component to any medium.

[Berry Syedow]

You can have a stimulating theme without mythical or paranormal aspects, but why not include them.

Even if TLC decides not to include those features, my mocs will, as it is my forte.

TLC is obsessed with fantasy. I think it's an impossibility for them to avoid incorporating it into the theme now, if they ever get around to reviving it. :-|

Pirate theme is an exellent base to moc all kinds of creatures, mythical and real.

The paranormal and myhtical culture is the best component to any medium.

Very true. Greek and Roman mythology are great role models of that as well. I'd really like for TLC to make a theme based on one of those cultures. All they would need to do is research and apply it to sets. No made up nonsense. It'd be a sure fire hit!

[JackDagger]

You can have a stimulating theme without mythical or paranormal aspects, but why not include them.

Even if TLC decides not to include those features, my mocs will, as it is my forte.

Pirate theme is an exellent base to moc all kinds of creatures, mythical and real.

The paranormal and myhtical culture is the best component to any medium.

i totally agree with ghoulrealm here, I also like the three faction idea but i would prefer if one of the faction was of the more paranormal nature. Be it damned, undead, or whatever sailors, that way for those who are seaking a more realistic line can just buy two of the factions

another thing i was thinking about is if lego just continued with the pirate theme and used pirates, imperials, and introduced another paranormal faction there.

one thing i always wondered was why lego never released an imperial ship using the wide hull? or am i wrong on this one.

[SkaForHire]

You can have a stimulating theme without mythical or paranormal aspects, but why not include them.

Even if TLC decides not to include those features, my mocs will, as it is my forte.

Pirate theme is an exellent base to moc all kinds of creatures, mythical and real.

The paranormal and myhtical culture is the best component to any medium.

i totally agree with ghoulrealm here, I also like the three faction idea but i would prefer if one of the faction was of the more paranormal nature. Be it damned, undead, or whatever sailors, that way for those who are seaking a more realistic line can just buy two of the factions

another thing i was thinking about is if lego just continued with the pirate theme and used pirates, imperials, and introduced another paranormal faction there.

one thing i always wondered was why lego never released an imperial ship using the wide hull? or am i wrong on this one.

Carribean clipper was wide hull... sorry about the god awful spelling...

[JackDagger]

oh right what was i thinking.

Just think of all the cool paranormal sets they could make without even ripping off PotC. There could be a bermuda triangle set full of wrecked ships

i've always had a ship in mind to make but haven't gotten around to it yet and its a wide hulled ship with a bridge to a narrow hulled ship making it like a catamaran ship. I'm sure with enough vision it could be made to look at least halfway decent

definity a ship full of ghosts (i still like the glow in the dark sheet men)

it would just be nice, regardless of what comes out, to see system pirates on the shelf again

[Brick Miner]

Hmm, there is a thread 99% exaclty like this one right here, and it's pretty recent too. Maybe we should continue this discussion there. ;-)

that is what i was thinking ;-)

POTC was one only element that had me questioning historical accuracy vs. fictional liberties... only my thread got off to a rocky start with all the western controversy. *wacko* *wacko* *wacko*

- BM

[SirScottLego]

JackD I love your concept... Imperials, Pirates and the Damned. That seems like the solution.

I don't know how many of you follow the "Pirates of the Spanish Main" Card game. But in the past year they have expanded from the "historical fiction" to include the fantasy aspects by introducing the "The Cursed".

I don't no how long we should continue this discussion but I'm walking away with the thought that maybe a historical theme can only run so long before it becomes "tapped" out and needs some sort of fantasy to keep the imagination alive... but then you run the risk of becoming too "out there"....

[SkaForHire]

JackD I love your concept... Imperials, Pirates and the Damned. That seems like the solution.

I don't know how many of you follow the "Pirates of the Spanish Main" Card game. But in the past year they have expanded from the "historical fiction" to include the fantasy aspects by introducing the "The Cursed".

I don't no how long we should continue this discussion but I'm walking away with the thought that maybe a historical theme can only run so long before it becomes "tapped" out and needs some sort of fantasy to keep the imagination alive... but then you run the risk of becoming too "out there"....

shhhh history is always fun... or else i am getting all this education for nothing !!!!

I would be up for anything that brings ships back to the shelves... did you see the original viking prototype had new color wide hull!!!!

I also played PotSM... i bought a whole box of the original set... then my brothers and i stopped really collectiong around the revolution sets (i wish we would have kept getting them... but alot o money for a game we dont play very often ... or in the last year lol...) the new faction sounds fun... ill have to check it out.

[Mister Phes]

Lets not forget there has already been a fantasy element in the original Pirate theme in the form of skeletons. The LEGO Company often depicted these skeletons as being "active" in the catalogues and box designs, so its not like they were dead and inaminate.

[oo7]

Yeah, I didn't notice that Phes, but your right!

I just found this poll thread also on a topic very similar to this one, and it needs a tie-breaker.

[ghoulrealm]

I just found this poll thread also on a topic very similar to this one, and it needs a tie-breaker.

It seems to remain tied in any thread.

Monsters will win eventually! *skull*

or ye be cursed :-D

[Evil Willy]

I just found this poll thread also on a topic very similar to this one, and it needs a tie-breaker.

It seems to remain tied in any thread.

Monsters will win eventually! *skull*

or ye be cursed :-D

The monsters need to stay away mate! Unless of course they are giant squid, which would make them realistic :D

[ApophisV]

Actually the PotC writers are doing what is very usual within other historical themes.

"Castle" themed books, stories, movies and so on included those mystical creatures from the beginning (e.g. Lord of the Rings).

So I don't think there is any "problem" of involving such elements in Pirate themed stories or related things!

Look at the classic castle guys! There are both the historical correct builders and also those that get isnpired by fantastic books and such!

[ghoulrealm]

The monsters need to stay away mate! Unless of course they are giant squid, which would make them realistic :D

Sea monsters or real dangerous marine animals to be exact.

Lets not forget there has already been a fantasy element in the original Pirate theme in the form of skeletons. The LEGO Company often depicted these skeletons as being "active" in the catalogues and box designs, so its not like they were dead and inaminate.

Fantasy? Ok, I geuss so. but they need not be active in your build, in this case it could easily go either way.

the skeleton is cool dead or undead *y*