[MOC] RENFE AVE S-102 (Talgo 350) WIPish...

[Ferro-Friki]

Hello everyone! I think it’s time I shared something over here I’ve been working on.

This is RENFE’s AVE S-102 (Talgo 350) made out of Lego. You might already be familiar with this Spanish high-speed train since other talented builders have shared their own wonderful versions in this forum.

Here’s a picture of the real thing if you’re not familiar with it (photo by Adrià Pàmies on flickr).

If you didn’t know, you won’t be surprised to learn that this EMU has earned itself the nickname “Pato” (Duck) due to the shape of the head. Very reminiscent of Japanese Shinkansen as a result of following the same aerodynamic principles.

These trains are composed of 2 tractor heads at each end and 12 Talgo coahes. In Lego form I decided to shorten it to just 6 coaches, enough to feature one of each unique variation.

The Talgo 350 is employed by RENFE for both its AVE and Avlo services. The Avlo brand, which stands for “alta velocidad low cost” (a bit of Spanglish there for you), being the equivalent and direct response to SNCF’s Ouigo.

Originally, I intended to build the Avlo version because I find the livery very striking and unlike anything running in Europe, let alone Spain. I got as far as designing every coach, but as soon as I got to the heads I realized that the magenta brick palette is too limited to achieve the shape, so I turned it into an AVE instead.

Turning it into an AVE brought its own challenge though. In order to achieve the not quite boxy look of the coaches and keep the magenta stripe running all along the length of the train I had hinge the lower section of the walls at a very gentle angle to get it just right. It’s almost imperceptible, but in my opinion, it makes all the difference.

Unfortunately, as much as I’d like to have the entire train brick-built, I just don’t have the space necessary for it. That’s why for now I’m happy to only have one of the heads (the unpowered one) and only three of the coaches as a static display.

Of course, this being a Talgo train, it features their signature single pair of wheels between coaches (rodal). Thanks to @Hod Carrier's brilliant rodal design this train can navigate pretty much any track geometry (with some restrictions) while maintaining a distance of barely more than a stud between coaches.

I don’t rule out building the rest of the coaches and the other engine in the future, as well as motorizing the entire train. However, the remaining head’s final design is still pretty much a work in progress. For now, the intention is to power both bogies with two geared-up PF L motors and a BuWizz 2.0.

I’ve never tackled a project of this size before, so there are many things I’m not sure of yet. I’m worried the two PF L Motors won’t be enough to pull the entire consist. Or even if it has enough pulling power, I’m not sure the rodal design can handle the weight of so many heavy coaches. In that case, I suppose restricting the train to wider radius curves would help it run better.

[Ropefish]

oh! ive been watching your progress with this on Flickr, some really fun techniques used to get this fella working!

[Darkkostas25]

Astounding build! Marvelous body shaping ang great idea with motorization 

[-DoNe-]

The shaping is perfect, nothing to add. Masterclass! 

[Feuer Zug]

Wonderful work. You managed to capture the feel of the AVE S-102 class well. The motorization adds significantly to it. Great job.

[Ferro-Friki]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:25 AM, Ropefish said:

oh! ive been watching your progress with this on Flickr, some really fun techniques used to get this fella working!

Thank you! They were fun to come up with as well.

On 8/15/2024 at 7:11 AM, Darkkostas25 said:

Astounding build! Marvelous body shaping ang great idea with motorization

 

On 8/15/2024 at 5:33 PM, Feuer Zug said:

Wonderful work. You managed to capture the feel of the AVE S-102 class well. The motorization adds significantly to it. Great job.

Thanks! That’s all it is for now, an idea. Unfortunately, the motors take too much structural importance and would be very hard to get to. I should probably redesign it pretty much from scratch.

On 8/15/2024 at 8:08 AM, -DoNe- said:

The shaping is perfect, nothing to add. Masterclass!

Thank you! With an unusual shape like that I had to make sure I got it right.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Absolutely crazy ... the model is exactly like the original (I like the detail of the wheels very much)!
The sectional view of the wagons is a work of art and having shared it does not take away the magic of the final result!
The internal view of the driving locomotive is also a great inspiration!

[zephyr1934]

Impressive work, very well done!

On 8/13/2024 at 11:28 AM, Ferro-Friki said:

Turning it into an AVE brought its own challenge though. In order to achieve the not quite boxy look of the coaches and keep the magenta stripe running all along the length of the train I had hinge the lower section of the walls at a very gentle angle to get it just right. It’s almost imperceptible, but in my opinion, it makes all the difference.

Indeed, that is both a brilliant solution and spot on about the impact. It is the tiny details that make a build like this "pop."

 

[Hod Carrier]

That's some great progress you've made there. I also like the subtle way that you've shaped the cars to get the shape of the real thing and so that they are not too boxy. I'm relieved that the rodales are working well.

I'm not sure how you couple the engine to the rest of the train. If you're using magnets you will need to be careful about how many hinge points there are, as too many hinge points will cause the first axle to be pushed out of alignment relative to the track and cause friction and, potentially, a derailment if the engine is ever at the rear and pushing the train.

[JopieK]

Thanks for sharing @Ferro-Friki. Looks amazing indeed. Also the smart way you placed the motors is very inventive.

[paulmaglev]

Impressive.

[Ferro-Friki]

On 8/16/2024 at 9:24 PM, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

Absolutely crazy ... the model is exactly like the original (I like the detail of the wheels very much)!
The sectional view of the wagons is a work of art and having shared it does not take away the magic of the final result!
The internal view of the driving locomotive is also a great inspiration!

Thank you! Designing the bogies is always one of my favorite parts of building a train.

On 8/17/2024 at 2:03 AM, zephyr1934 said:

Indeed, that is both a brilliant solution and spot on about the impact. It is the tiny details that make a build like this "pop."

 

On 8/17/2024 at 1:00 PM, Hod Carrier said:

That's some great progress you've made there. I also like the subtle way that you've shaped the cars to get the shape of the real thing and so that they are not too boxy. I'm relieved that the rodales are working well.

Thanks! I've noticed that most passenger trains rarely have completely vertical walls, It’s something I’ve been experimenting with lately.

On 8/17/2024 at 1:00 PM, Hod Carrier said:

I'm not sure how you couple the engine to the rest of the train. If you're using magnets you will need to be careful about how many hinge points there are, as too many hinge points will cause the first axle to be pushed out of alignment relative to the track and cause friction and, potentially, a derailment if the engine is ever at the rear and pushing the train.

I ditched the magnets since this is an EMU that pretty much never gets decoupled or swapped around with other vehicles (also the good magnets are wayy to expensive).

I think I’ve come up with a solution that, from the light testing I’ve done, seems to work fine going forwards and in reverse.

The yellow bogie is the rear of the engine, the blue assembly has the single rodal with a bit of the underside frame, and the red pieces represent all the rotation points.

It could do with a little refining though, and I’ve no idea how this could misbehave in a complete, motorized train.

19 hours ago, JopieK said:

Thanks for sharing @Ferro-Friki. Looks amazing indeed. Also the smart way you placed the motors is very inventive.

 

18 hours ago, paulmaglev said:

Impressive.

Thank you! :)

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

On the wheel there is a drawing of a perforated disc, is it a sticker?
The result is definitely professional.

[Red Rackham]

It's stunning how well the curves and the whole elegant shape of the train have been captured.
In magenta, of course, it looks even finer.
The hoses next to the cockpit window are amazing, as are the pantographs. 
And the many details of the wheels and couplings between the cars, master class.
I'd love to see it in motion. Did it ride on your rails?

And then the latest picture of the bogie: 
How many parts are you currently at?
I'd love to see more details.
Very fascinating.

 

[Hod Carrier]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:57 PM, Ferro-Friki said:

I think I’ve come up with a solution that, from the light testing I’ve done, seems to work fine going forwards and in reverse.

Awesome!! 

[Ferro-Friki]

On 8/19/2024 at 6:03 PM, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

On the wheel there is a drawing of a perforated disc, is it a sticker?

They’re actually 3D printed MS wheels, even the holes have real depth. I bought them from BricktheBrick and painted the actual discs with acrylic paint. The wheels look amazing, but the quality leaves a bit to be desired, even after sanding they offer a lot of resistance when rolling.

For a display train it’s fine, but if I end up completing the train and motorizing it I’ll have to get wheels from somewhere else. Originally I had my eyes on HA Bricks, but Lego had other plans for me… 

On 8/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, Red Rackham said:

It's stunning how well the curves and the whole elegant shape of the train have been captured.
In magenta, of course, it looks even finer.

Thank you! I agree, I wish I could have built the Avlo irl. It's a gorgeous and unusual color.

On 8/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, Red Rackham said:

I'd love to see it in motion. Did it ride on your rails?

I'm afraid it hasn't moved much. Partly because of the heavy friction of the BricktheBrick wheels, because the loose rodal of the café car won't behave propperly unless coupled to another Talgo coach, and because of the little time I have to tinker with the train and run tests. And of course, the engine I've built is a dummy and the actual power engine is still in the works.

On 8/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, Red Rackham said:

How many parts are you currently at?

After checking on Studio, the half I've physically built is almost exactly at 3000 pieces. The complete train should be at around 6000.

On 8/19/2024 at 7:10 PM, Red Rackham said:

I'd love to see more details.

I have an album dedicated to this train on my flickr page. It’s actually a pretty good record of the entire development process.

 

 

On 8/21/2024 at 2:50 PM, Hod Carrier said:

Awesome!! 

Thanks! :)

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

5 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

They’re actually 3D printed MS wheels, even the holes have real depth. I bought them from BricktheBrick and painted the actual discs with acrylic paint. The wheels look amazing, but the quality leaves a bit to be desired, even after sanding they offer a lot of resistance when rolling.

Beautiful!

Thanks for the info

[Asper]

That's a wonderful train. Thank you for sharing all the details!

[Maufol]

Incredible model! Such a difficult to design the very special apearence of our S102 series aka "Pato".

[L-Gauger]

On 8/13/2024 at 10:28 AM, Ferro-Friki said:

I don’t rule out building the rest of the coaches and the other engine in the future, as well as motorizing the entire train. However, the remaining head’s final design is still pretty much a work in progress. For now, the intention is to power both bogies with two geared-up PF L motors and a BuWizz 2.0.

I’ve never tackled a project of this size before, so there are many things I’m not sure of yet. I’m worried the two PF L Motors won’t be enough to pull the entire consist. Or even if it has enough pulling power, I’m not sure the rodal design can handle the weight of so many heavy coaches. In that case, I suppose restricting the train to wider radius curves would help it run better.

@Ferro-Friki from the tests I've seen the PF L motor is the strongest of all PF motors. If you used wheels with traction bands and ran on R104 track, I'm pretty sure one L motor would be enough for your whole EMU set. However, one thing which might up your chances of successfully navigating R40 curves would be to power both of the locomotives instead of having one powered and one unpowered. Even having one L motor in each locomotive would likely offer less stress on the overall train than two L motors in one locomotive. 

Maybe you could try setting things up so that one PF L motor powers both bogies in one locomotive... I think that would be the most efficient design, especially if you choose to power both locomotives instead of one. 

Edited July 14 by L-Gauger
Spelling correction

[Elysiumfountain]

Very accurate! I love the way you created the curves, the whole appearance is very well done. 

[Ferro-Friki]

On 7/14/2025 at 11:31 PM, L-Gauger said:

@Ferro-Friki from the tests I've seen the PF L motor is the strongest of all PF motors. If you used wheels with traction bands and ran on R104 track, I'm pretty sure one L motor would be enough for your whole EMU set. However, one thing which might up your chances of successfully navigating R40 curves would be to power both of the locomotives instead of having one powered and one unpowered. Even having one L motor in each locomotive would likely offer less stress on the overall train than two L motors in one locomotive. 

Having both locomotives powered would be the ideal solution, and more realistic too. The thing is I currently don’t have any BuWizz battery boxes. I was hoping one would be enough. Buying two at the same time would be rough, those things aren’t cheap… But as long as I leave the option to motorize the other head I can always get another BuWizz and more motors eventually.

On 7/14/2025 at 11:31 PM, L-Gauger said:

Maybe you could try setting things up so that one PF L motor powers both bogies in one locomotive... I think that would be the most efficient design, especially if you choose to power both locomotives instead of one. 

That is an interesting solution that I hadn’t thought of. I imagine I would need a technic axle shaft running from one bogie pivot to the other. I’m not sure how easily the battery box would fit in the engine if it had to share space with the shaft.

Maybe I’ll try this for another train in the future. The thing is, this model was designed from the beginning with two motors in the engine, and the motors are cheaper than the BuWizz 2.0 battery box after all.

On another note, it seems like this S-102 will stay as a display piece for the time being. I’m ditching the 7-wide scale. That 1 stud difference compared to 8-wide really makes a difference, specially when motorizing. But I’m working on a very similar Talgo train now, the S-106, and all the lessons I learned with the S-102 apply there too. It’s an 8-wide model and I’m making sure from the start it’s motorized and with easy to access electronics.

14 hours ago, Elysiumfountain said:

Very accurate! I love the way you created the curves, the whole appearance is very well done. 

Thanks!

[L-Gauger]

10 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

Having both locomotives powered would be the ideal solution, and more realistic too. The thing is I currently don’t have any BuWizz battery boxes. I was hoping one would be enough. Buying two at the same time would be rough, those things aren’t cheap… But as long as I leave the option to motorize the other head I can always get another BuWizz and more motors eventually.

On 7/14/2025 at 4:31 PM, L-Gauger said:

Gotcha, that makes perfect sense... you know, I don't know the going price of PF extender cables, but maybe you could run an extension cable from one hub all the way down the train to the other locomotive or something like that. Could be cheaper. 

11 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

That is an interesting solution that I hadn’t thought of. I imagine I would need a technic axle shaft running from one bogie pivot to the other. I’m not sure how easily the battery box would fit in the engine if it had to share space with the shaft.

To me it looks like you might have room for the shaft above the BuWizz hub, up in the roof. Obviously that might not be the ideal location ergonomically speaking, but everything in engineering is a compromise... 

Another option would be to put the battery box in the second car, and just have the motor plus some extra weight in the locomotive, be that train weight bricks from the 80s or a compartment full of something like fishing weights or coins. 

11 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

Maybe I’ll try this for another train in the future. The thing is, this model was designed from the beginning with two motors in the engine, and the motors are cheaper than the BuWizz 2.0 battery box after all.

True. My theory, though, is that two motors in one locomotive might not pull as much as two locomotives, each with one motor. This hunch comes from experience regarding a 6-wide Super Chief MOC of mine. I'll have to share photos at some point, but it's pulled by two EMD F-7 locomotives, each equipped with one Power Functions train motor and that setup has been flawless. 

 

11 hours ago, Ferro-Friki said:

I’m ditching the 7-wide scale. That 1 stud difference compared to 8-wide really makes a difference, specially when motorizing.

I take it you're switching to 8-wide trains, then? Sounds interesting. I look forward to seeing your S-106 model!