[MOC] WIP 38-gun Frigate HMS Diana

[Achilles099]

This is my WIP model of HMS Diana, a fifth rate 38-gun Artois class frigate launched in 1794. If you're interested in the details of the real ship there is a book in the "Anatomy of the Ship" series dedicated to her, written by David White. That is where I gotten all of the dimensions and draughts I have used as guides for this model. I've built the ship to appear as she would have during the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars, with "berthed-up" barricades on the forecastle and quarterdeck. I am planning to make the rigging using the same approach I did for my first frigate, which can be seen here. I also plan to raise the stern and quarter galleries a fair bit, since they are sitting too low right now.

 

Hull shot abeam 1 by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

Full hull shot 1 by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

Double capstan and pumps by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

Hull from above by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

Larboard battery gun by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

Quarterdeck and quarter galleries by Andrew Cardy, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Achilles099
Added MOC flair

[Jack Sassy]

Lovely build.  Would really like to see how she turns out in the end. 

 

[Achilles099]

11 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Lovely build.  Would really like to see how she turns out in the end. 

 

Thank you, I'll be posting some completed pictures once I have what I need to get all of the rigging done!

[Supersick_]

Awesome, can't wait to see this completed. 

[Achilles099]

15 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Awesome, can't wait to see this completed. 

Thank you, I'll be sure to post updates here, just waiting on some strings and pieces for the rigging to begin to take shape. It will essentially look like a larger version of the same rigging I did for my first ship

 

 

[Professor Thaum]

Nice WIP, this is promising for the future of this frigate !

As your three first posts are promising for your future on EB !

[Achilles099]

29 minutes ago, Professor Thaum said:

Nice WIP, this is promising for the future of this frigate !

As your three first posts are promising for your future on EB !

Thank you, I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out thus far, with some minor changes at the stern I think it will be exactly where I want it to be!

[Stoertebricker]

Thats a huge ship, in this state it looks a bit flat from the side but that can change with the proceeding. My fav is the pic with the larboard battery gun where you have assembled a true gun port with strings and ropes holding the cannons in position and even using original lego strings for that!

[Achilles099]

1 hour ago, Stoertebricker said:

Thats a huge ship, in this state it looks a bit flat from the side but that can change with the proceeding. My fav is the pic with the larboard battery gun where you have assembled a true gun port with strings and ropes holding the cannons in position and even using original lego strings for that!

Thanks, I was really excited to have the room to do some proper gun tackles. Just like with my first frigate I'm only using 100% official LEGO elements, it adds to the challenge which I enjoy!

The sheer of the decks on a real ship like this is so slight that it's not really practical to portray in LEGO, doing so usually just ends up with a very exaggerated sheer which I don't like. The appearance of greater sheer on these vessels comes from the hull itself, which is also hard to show but I tried to use the paint job to do some of that. On the real ship the blue streak followed the sheer of the hull, but inevitably in LEGO it tends to look a bit more blocky than I'd like. I may extend the dark red streaks up slightly higher on the forecastle and quarterdeck barricades to correct a bit but I'm not sure how it'll turn out.

[Supersick_]

4 hours ago, Achilles099 said:

Thanks, I was really excited to have the room to do some proper gun tackles. Just like with my first frigate I'm only using 100% official LEGO elements, it adds to the challenge which I enjoy!

The sheer of the decks on a real ship like this is so slight that it's not really practical to portray in LEGO, doing so usually just ends up with a very exaggerated sheer which I don't like. The appearance of greater sheer on these vessels comes from the hull itself, which is also hard to show but I tried to use the paint job to do some of that. On the real ship the blue streak followed the sheer of the hull, but inevitably in LEGO it tends to look a bit more blocky than I'd like. I may extend the dark red streaks up slightly higher on the forecastle and quarterdeck barricades to correct a bit but I'm not sure how it'll turn out.

Agreed, but at your scale adding a plate or 2 of shear especially at the stern would help (in my opinion). Right now I do think it looks a little hogged (human eyes don't like straight lines). I'd look at maybe adding something like 1/6 rise/run ... anyway - again sorry for the unsolicited opinions.

[Achilles099]

9 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

Agreed, but at your scale adding a plate or 2 of shear especially at the stern would help (in my opinion). Right now I do think it looks a little hogged (human eyes don't like straight lines). I'd look at maybe adding something like 1/6 rise/run ... anyway - again sorry for the unsolicited opinions.

I've considered that and might still try it if modifications to the colouring don't get me the desired effect. The appearance of hogging is actually partially cause the table isn't flat, I noticed after taking a few pictures that none of the bow sliders were actually making contact with it!

Edit: also no need to say sorry for the unsolicited opinions, I like getting outside perspectives on this, it's easy to get too close to a project this big and time consuming!

Edited May 18, 2021 by Achilles099
In text

[Supersick_]

On 5/18/2021 at 2:21 AM, Achilles099 said:

I've considered that and might still try it if modifications to the colouring don't get me the desired effect. The appearance of hogging is actually partially cause the table isn't flat, I noticed after taking a few pictures that none of the bow sliders were actually making contact with it!

Edit: also no need to say sorry for the unsolicited opinions, I like getting outside perspectives on this, it's easy to get too close to a project this big and time consuming!

I see... so it was not an illusion but actual hogging (technically, haha) - always a sign that she's in need of a refit or repair! jk

I love the detail you're capturing at this scale. The double capstan is done beautifully, as-is the beakhead.

I revise my unsolicited advice: maybe something like 1/10 or 1/12 for the rise/run. I noticed this is basically 2x the size of my Fer Maiden (built at theme scale) and I am using 1/6. Diana also seems to have some decent shear at the bow as well (looking at her plans). I'd at least consider adding 1-2 plates of rise at the bow and 3-4 plates at the stern especially. Again, looking at Diana's plans, the bottom of her quarter gallery windows is in line with the top of her waist gunports, so it's definitely there!

Looking forward to the progress, this is a massive project.

[Achilles099]

18 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

I see... so it was not an illusion but actual hogging (technically, haha) - always a sign that she's in need of a refit or repair! jk

I love the detail you're capturing at this scale. The double capstan is done beautifully, as-is the beakhead.

Thank you, I am really happy with how those areas turned out, though the beakhead I might need to adjust slightly once I start adding rigging and need tie-down points in that area.

18 hours ago, Supersick_ said:

I revise my unsolicited advice: maybe something like 1/10 or 1/12 for the rise/run. I noticed this is basically 2x the size of my Fer Maiden (built at theme scale) and I am using 1/6. Diana also seems to have some decent shear at the bow as well (looking at her plans). I'd at least consider adding 1-2 plates of rise at the bow and 3-4 plates at the stern especially. Again, looking at Diana's plans, the bottom of her quarter gallery windows is in line with the top of her waist gunports, so it's definitely there!

Which set of draughts are you looking at? The ones I've used show only minimal sheer on the upper deck itself, though the exterior view of the hull does certainly have more. The trick I'm finding is striking a balance between the almost flat deck beneath and the sheer of the hull that you see from the outside. I've been trying to design a good way of giving smooth, gradual sheer, currently experimenting with setting the quarterdeck barricades at an angle along with the aft-most two-thirds or so of the quarterdeck, but I'm still not finding a way that I like of giving the very slight sheer to the hull along the upper deck. The other problem of course is that I've used hinges to angle the hull inwards beginning at about the mainmast to show the gradual narrowing, and then combining that with gradual incline it's hard to get a hull without gaps and with sufficient strength to it. I'm hoping that with some sheer on the barricades it will give the impression I'm looking for. I also might need to wait and see how some of these things look once masts and rigging are added, I found with my first frigate I was not as pleased with the look of the hull until I rigged it, and then it all sort of came together and looked better in my opinion. So we'll see. Definitely appreciate the feedback, there aren't many LEGO mocs of this scale that I have seen to take notes from so it's a lot of trial and error at this point! 

[Supersick_]

1 hour ago, Achilles099 said:

Thank you, I am really happy with how those areas turned out, though the beakhead I might need to adjust slightly once I start adding rigging and need tie-down points in that area.

Which set of draughts are you looking at? The ones I've used show only minimal sheer on the upper deck itself, though the exterior view of the hull does certainly have more. The trick I'm finding is striking a balance between the almost flat deck beneath and the sheer of the hull that you see from the outside. I've been trying to design a good way of giving smooth, gradual sheer, currently experimenting with setting the quarterdeck barricades at an angle along with the aft-most two-thirds or so of the quarterdeck, but I'm still not finding a way that I like of giving the very slight sheer to the hull along the upper deck. The other problem of course is that I've used hinges to angle the hull inwards beginning at about the mainmast to show the gradual narrowing, and then combining that with gradual incline it's hard to get a hull without gaps and with sufficient strength to it. I'm hoping that with some sheer on the barricades it will give the impression I'm looking for. I also might need to wait and see how some of these things look once masts and rigging are added, I found with my first frigate I was not as pleased with the look of the hull until I rigged it, and then it all sort of came together and looked better in my opinion. So we'll see. Definitely appreciate the feedback, there aren't many LEGO mocs of this scale that I have seen to take notes from so it's a lot of trial and error at this point! 

Yeah, that's why I think building the sheer with a rise/run method of the plate works best. Whilst it does initially seem too "blocky" in a 2D side view, when it's combined with tumblehome slope and hull plan view tapering it at least gets removed from the "unorthodox" building techniques that are quite weak like you said, for the hull of a ship (especially this size). 

These are the plans I've referenced for Diana: https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/ship-plan-of-hms-diana-1794-lines-j5535

I've overlaid them with some lines in Adobe Illustrator and color coded them for discussion:

- Pink outlines the gunports and 2 rails that define the gunport stripe (ochre/yellow/tan)

- Light Pink is the gun deck - it does not have as much shear as the hull, as you said.

- Green is horizontal lines to use as reference (note: especially the one intersecting the bottom of windows and top of waist gunports)

- Blue is water line (horizontal) that denotes her coppering as well

 

Here's some additional reference after reading my post:

https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2040-completed-model-of-hms-diana-by-jotika/

[Achilles099]

1 hour ago, Supersick_ said:

Yeah, that's why I think building the sheer with a rise/run method of the plate works best. Whilst it does initially seem too "blocky" in a 2D side view, when it's combined with tumblehome slope and hull plan view tapering it at least gets removed from the "unorthodox" building techniques that are quite weak like you said, for the hull of a ship (especially this size). 

These are the plans I've referenced for Diana: https://prints.rmg.co.uk/products/ship-plan-of-hms-diana-1794-lines-j5535

I've overlaid them with some lines in Adobe Illustrator and color coded them for discussion:

- Pink outlines the gunports and 2 rails that define the gunport stripe (ochre/yellow/tan)

- Light Pink is the gun deck - it does not have as much shear as the hull, as you said.

- Green is horizontal lines to use as reference (note: especially the one intersecting the bottom of windows and top of waist gunports)

- Blue is water line (horizontal) that denotes her coppering as well

 

Here's some additional reference after reading my post:

https://modelshipworld.com/gallery/album/2040-completed-model-of-hms-diana-by-jotika/

Yeah I see what you mean, adding the lines is helpful! Adding simple plate step-ups is definitely on the table, if I can't find a way of doing a true curve to it. 

[Wellesley]

This is really awesome! Can't wait to see further progress!

[BrickDuvel]

This is already one fine ship. I love the overall shaping of the hull. Stern and bow look very nice and your colour scheme is great.  The optical illusion of a slight upward curve of the gunports towards the bow and the stern that is created with the diminishing blue line looks superb.   This is an interesting idea to elborate on/take in mind for future builds since the gunport line doesn't follow the curving of the hull completely.

Looking forward to see this ship fully rigged.

Edited July 19, 2021 by BrickDuvel