Powering 2 Horizon Express Trains

[Detroit-Funk]

Hi friends,

I've researched this a bit on both this forum and others. But hoping there maybe some updated ways to power two engines on the 10233 Horizon Express so I could run them like on the box with engines on opposite ends. 

I don't really have the infrastructure for 9v so that's probably out of the question. But hoping someone may have updated info on how to do this for PoweredUp? Or if Power Functions is still the way to go, what has been deemed the best way to go about it?

Thanks in advance.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Detroit-Funk

[Lok24]

With Powered Functions you can motorize the second unit like the first on, connected via a cable and a switch to change the  direction of the second motor.

With Powerd Up you can add a second hub and motor to the second unit.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Lok24

[paul_delahaye]

From my limited understanding of both systems, you have 3 options I see using power functions:

1. On my Horizon Express, I put 2 motors in one end of the train, and also inside that part of the train was a pole reverser switch for one of the motors so they both work off the same receiver, and go in the same direction.  It's tight, but can be done.
2. You can have a motor in each end of the train, with lots of extension cables inbetween, you will also need a pole reverser switch in line for the rear motor, the negative of this option is the need for lots of cables and then making them run through all the carriages
3. You have a Battery Box, Motor and Receiver in each end of the train.  The receivers are both set to the same channel.  The rear motor will also need a pole reverser switch in line.  The risk here is one of the receivers does not pick up the singal at the same time as the other one.  So the front motor could be running at speed setting 5 and the rear motor at speed setting 3, which would probably not be great for either motor.  Equally as one battery box goes flat, it may cause a small speed difference between motors, so they could in theory be fighting agaist each other?

I'd go for option 1 but new components direct from Lego will slowly phase out.

With Powered up, in theory you can put a battery box/bluetooth hub receiver at each end of the train, both powering a motor.  If I understand correctly, the hubs can be sync'd so they operate together, this would solve the main issues with Power functions option 3, however to date I do not believe there is a pole reverser switch, so a second motor without doing some surgery to one of the motors wiring or drilling a hole in the train base to allow the motor to be mounted the wrong way around will not work as the rear motor won't be going the same way as the front one?

 

 

[Lok24]

 

1 minute ago, paul_delahaye said:

If I understand correctly, the hubs can be sync'd so they operate together

You can connect them both to the app or connect them both to the handset.

[Detroit-Funk]

27 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

With Powered Functions you can motorize the second unit like the first on, connted via a cable and a switch to change the  direction of the second motor.

With Powerd Up you can add a second hub and motor to the second unit.

so for PF, i would be running cabling through all cars to reach the second engine, correct? Like Paul below laid out in his explanation? do they make one long cable or is this several short cables? 

for PoweredUp, aren't the engines directional though? so again, as Paul below pointed out, will that require some sort of reverse engineering in the motor itself to trick it to operate in reverse?

[Lok24]

1 minute ago, Detroit-Funk said:

 do they make one long cable or is this several short cables?

I think its several long cables, depending on number of waggons and if light is desired as well.

2 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

for PoweredUp, aren't the engines directional though? so again, as Paul below pointed out, will that require some sort of reverse engineering in the motor itself to trick it to operate in reverse?

You can program them properly or use one of the handset knobs turned.

[Detroit-Funk]

5 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

I think its several long cables, depending on number of waggons and if light is desired as well.

You can program them properly or use one of the handset knobs turned.

do you have any more details around this? I would actually prefer to go the PoweredUp route. for simplicity sake if nothing else. so is it two battery/bluetooth boxes and two train motors? anything else needed?

and then, how do I program them to run opposite? Or, what exactly needs to be done on the handset to get the two motors to operate in the correct position? 

[Lok24]

1 minute ago, Detroit-Funk said:

so is it two battery/bluetooth boxes and two train motors?

Yes, a smart device or a remote control.

2 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

and then, how do I program them to run opposite?

add on motor command with V and the other for the second motor with V*-1

4 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

 Or, what exactly needs to be done on the handset to get the two motors to operate in the correct position? 

Turn one of the knobs by 180°.

[Detroit-Funk]

Just now, Lok24 said:

Yes, a smart device or a remote control.

add on motor command with V and the other for the second motor with V*-1

Turn one of the knobs by 180°.

no kidding on the controller knobs, huh? i had no clue what those are/were for. so they change polarity? what is the process for syncing everything so it runs together? meaning, both motors are synced to the same controller and one runs in reverse?

 

and how does one go about doing this? "add on motor command with V and the other for the second motor with V*-1" what are you using to code this function?

[Lok24]

If you turn one of the knobs on the remote control that does't change polarity, but the "-" button is on top where on the other the "+" is via the bottom.

You can easily push them simultaniously :

You then connect the remote control to one hub and then the other hub to the same channel.

26 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

and how does one go about doing this? "add on motor command with V and the other for the second motor with V*-1" what are you using to code this function?

I use the Powered Up app to code this.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Lok24

[Detroit-Funk]

1 minute ago, Lok24 said:

If you turn one of the knobs on the remote control that doenst change polarity, but the "-" button is up whre on the other the "+" is up.

You can easily push them simultaniously :

You then connect the remote control to one hub and then the other hub to the same channel.

I use the Powered Up app to code this.

LOL, i feel so dumb for saying that. It's so obvious now that all you are doing is telling one to go straight and the other backwards. LMAO! My next question was going to be how do you control the speed as it seems you would be trying to hit the button at the same time. and here you are with a neat little contraption that you have built to do just that. So was that your own design or did you find it somewhere?

 

 

[Lok24]

4 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

 So was that your own design or did you find it somewhere?

It's my own design, but I presented it here (or somewhere else?) already.

It's just a study, you can make it much better.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Lok24

[Detroit-Funk]

9 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

It's my own design, but I presented it here (or somewhere else?) already.

It's just a study, you can make it much better.

i think it's great. do you have a parts list for it? may bricklink one later. 

44 minutes ago, Lok24 said:

Yes, a smart device or a remote control.

add on motor command with V and the other for the second motor with V*-1

Turn one of the knobs by 180°.

hopefully last question, if i wanted to go the app route. how do i do the actual coding for that and then apply it to the train? do you have a step-by-step guide to show that for a dummy like me? 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Detroit-Funk

[Toxic43]

My Horizon Express is doubled up just like on the box with the full interior and all the minifigs that came with it. It's very heavy. That being said, I have a double motor setup with Power Functions train motors. The front motor is connected via a reverser switch switched to the reverse position so the motor can face backwards with the wire leading to the middle of the loco yet run the correct way. I also have PF lights in the front too on the second channel so I can operate them simultaneously. There is also a mod for the 10233 which allows a city like fast on/off action via a press of the roof. The original author updated the pictures a while back for me so I could build it. I expect it will work for Powered up too since the button on the hub is in the same place.

Here's the link: 

 

Back to what I was saying. The train I run can launch up to full speed quite quickly with two motors pulling it along. I don't have any need for extras in the rear. Although I do have to use 1x2 plates to connect the couplings together or I find the loco breaking away from the train! With the plates in place it all hangs together and runs quickly. I can derail it in curves if I go too fast. For such a heavy train it's quite the feat!

I may try Powered Up in the future and link motors up in the rear loco too, but I dislike only being able to use two channels. Not being able to run two motors AND lights at the same time is a big no from me. Power Functions has a big advantage in that respect.

[Detroit-Funk]

5 minutes ago, Toxic43 said:

My Horizon Express is doubled up just like on the box with the full interior and all the minifigs that came with it. It's very heavy. That being said, I have a double motor setup with Power Functions train motors. The front motor is connected via a reverser switch switched to the reverse position so the motor can face backwards with the wire leading to the middle of the loco yet run the correct way. I also have PF lights in the front too on the second channel so I can operate them simultaneously. There is also a mod for the 10233 which allows a city like fast on/off action via a press of the roof. The original author updated the pictures a while back for me so I could build it. I expect it will work for Powered up too since the button on the hub is in the same place.

Here's the link: 

 

Back to what I was saying. The train I run can launch up to full speed quite quickly with two motors pulling it along. I don't have any need for extras in the rear. Although I do have to use 1x2 plates to connect the couplings together or I find the loco breaking away from the train! With the plates in place it all hangs together and runs quickly. I can derail it in curves if I go too fast. For such a heavy train it's quite the feat!

I may try Powered Up in the future and link motors up in the rear loco too, but I dislike only being able to use two channels. Not being able to run two motors AND lights at the same time is a big no from me. Power Functions has a big advantage in that respect.

appreciate the PF perspective. I didn't think about lighting in this formula but that would be great to have as well at some point. 

[Lok24]

1 hour ago, Detroit-Funk said:

i think it's great. do you have a parts list for it? may bricklink one later. 

do you have a step-by-step guide to show that for a dummy like me? 

No and no, I don't have any train layout here.

55 minutes ago, Detroit-Funk said:

appreciate the PF perspective. I didn't think about lighting in this formula but that would be great to have as well at some point. 

Yes, that's obviosly the simplest solution

[1963maniac]

 

[Lok24]

1 minute ago, 1963maniac said:

 

But you saw that this solution uses a Raspberry Pi microprocessor which has to be programmed according the BT protocoll?

[Mr Hobbles]

This my solution for this. It's a Powered Up app program that allows you to use the normal Powered Up remote control buttons (up/down/stop) in exactly the same fashion with two hubs (ie. the Horizon Express). It assumes 1) There's a hub in both the front and the back locomotives, 2) The train motors are plugged into port A on both hubs, and 3) There are LED lights plugged into port B on both hubs, for both head and tail lights.

The hubs should be connected as: Front locomotive hub as Hub 1, back locomotive hub as Hub 2, and Powered Up remote control as Hub 3.

It looks complex, but it includes button debouncing functionality which ensures that a single button press only increases by one speed step, instead of accidental double increases.

EDIT: OUT OF DATE! SIMPLER VERSION ON NEXT PAGE!

Edited June 15, 2020 by Mr Hobbles

[Detroit-Funk]

10 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said:

This my solution for this. It's a Powered Up app program that allows you to use the normal Powered Up remote control buttons (up/down/stop) in exactly the same fashion with two hubs (ie. the Horizon Express). It assumes 1) There's a hub in both the front and the back, 2) The train motors are plugged into port A on both hubs, and 3) There are LED lights plugged into port B on both hubs, for both head and tail lights.

The hubs should be connected as: Front locomotive hub as Hub 1, back locomotive hub as Hub 2, and Powered Up remote control as Hub 3.

It looks complex, but it includes button debouncing functionality which ensures that a single button press only increases by one speed step, instead of accidental double increases.

Wowza, yeah that's a lot! and i can do this all from the app? and what does the controller layout look like for this? best i can tell you only get the two choices unless i missed something. 

[Mr Hobbles]

Just now, Detroit-Funk said:

Wowza, yeah that's a lot! and i can do this all from the app? and what does the controller layout look like for this? best i can tell you only get the two choices unless i missed something. 

There is no controller layout. :) You connect the physical Powered Up remote control and use that in exactly the same way as other trains - speed up, speed down, emergency stop.

Edited June 15, 2020 by Mr Hobbles

[Detroit-Funk]

 

Just now, Detroit-Funk said:

so you just make the bluetooth connection and it assumes this code once connected?

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Detroit-Funk

[Mr Hobbles]

@Detroit-Funk Using the Bluetooth icon at the top left of the screen, you can connect multiple hubs.

1. Connect Hub 1 (front locomotive)

2. Connect Hub 2 (back locomotive)

3. Connect Hub 3 (The remote control).

Once all connected, click the big green "Play" button at the top right.

Now you can use the remote control to control both locomotives. :)

Edited June 15, 2020 by Mr Hobbles

[Detroit-Funk]

8 minutes ago, Mr Hobbles said:

Using the Bluetooth icon at the top left of the screen, you can connect multiple hubs.

1. Connect Hub 1.

2. Connect Hub 2.

3. Connect Hub 3 (The remote control).

 

sorry for having to dumb this down so much, but i've never done any of this before and i'm looking to purchase the necessary motors/hubs and i want to get it right.

so from a steps perspective: 

install motors and hubs into trains
create a new "coding" project in the poweredup app (not controller)
code project how you have it above
connect all hubs per your instructions above
drive the train using the physical remote and your coding above closely matches the physical controllers layout?

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Detroit-Funk

[Mr Hobbles]

@Detroit-FunkI've uploaded a video for you here. :) (Please excuse the dog walking around, she was very curious...)

For my setup, you need 2x Powered Up hubs, 2x train motors, and 2x LED lights. On the back locomotive I've made the tail lights red instead of clear.

1. Create a new coding project.
2. Create the program as per my screenshot.
3. Connect all hubs and remote.
4. Press Play.
5. Drive train with remote!
 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Mr Hobbles