The Historic Forums

[leafan]

Hi,

I have some thoughts and questions on the format of these sub-forums and was wondering what others think.

I'm a big fan of both the Historic and Pirate sub-forums, so it's interesting to me that over on the Pirate forum, there is a separate sub-forum for MOCs (Pirate MOCs) and for a role-playing game (Brethren of the Brick Seas).

There's a clear distinction there and the MOC forum especially is rather active and serves as a good place to promote MOCs and Lego Ideas (outside of the Indices that I maintain).

Here, however, there is only 1 public sub-forum (Guilds of Historica) and it's described as " The castle MOCers paradise". But is it though? It seems that posting there comes with joining in with the roleplay game and a lot of additional stuff.

Now, I'm not trying to dismiss the value of that, but would it be better to mimic the Pirate structure here and separate the role-play building from the person that just wants to show what they've built?

I realise that MOCs can and are shared in the Historic main forum, but perhaps they would be better moved to their own sub-forum and clear room for general discussion in the main landing Historic page.

Then, when we get a spectacular Idea or moc, such as today's Medieval Marketplace or The Mythical Camelot Castle, we'd be better able to deliver that to the people most likely to be interested in it, and perhaps use those posts as frontpage news, like the Pirates are currently doing.

And lastly, and I do not mean any offence by this, but I don't even know if these sub-forums have a dedicated moderator. Do they? If so, can someone holla at me and let me know if there is a better place to discuss this?

Thanks for reading.

Edited April 28, 2020 by leafan

[MAB]

15 hours ago, leafan said:

I realise that MOCs can and are shared in the Historic main forum, but perhaps they would be better moved to their own sub-forum and clear room for general discussion in the main landing Historic page.

Then, when we get a spectacular Idea or moc, such as today's Medieval Marketplace or The Mythical Camelot Castle, we'd be better able to deliver that to the people most likely to be interested in it, and perhaps use those posts as frontpage news, like the Pirates are currently doing.

I prefer to see Eurobrick's users' MOCs in the main Historic forum, certainly more than just links to Ideas. Eurobricks shouldn't be an Ideas farm.

 

 

[leafan]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I prefer to see Eurobrick's users' MOCs in the main Historic forum, certainly more than just links to Ideas. Eurobricks shouldn't be an Ideas farm.

Yes, it wasn't my intent to suggest having only Ideas in there at all.

Thanks for your feedback.

[weeble1688]

I believe one of the Historic headers may have snuck into the Train forum, as it seems to have acquired a new look including a dark red "THE DRAGON'S DEN" header and other changes.  I believe the Train forum would like its old header, et al. back ... so if someone could chain it back in these parts?   Thank you very much!

[Grover]

Is there enough traffic to warrant a separate sub forum for MOCs vs. discussion?  I don't typically see that here.  It may be different on the Pirate forum, but I rarely go there.  I am also less likely to start reading more sub forums.  The more I have to click, the less likely I am to read the forums or comment.  I spend most of my time in GOH but my second most read forums are the historic forums here.  If I had to click to yet another sub forum, I would probably not bother.

Distinction between GOH and the rest of the forums seems all right, as the GOH is exclusively MOCs (no discussion outside of sticky threads).  Although there is a roleplaying aspect to the building, it's not terribly stringent and if you wanted to, you could just build a bunch of freebuilds and never participate in the challenges or develop a story.  The only real requirement would be to sign up for a particular guild so they get points for your builds.  There's a lot of really excellent builders there, too, and some great feedback.

[MAB]

Most of the recent topics in the main historic section are MOCs. If MOCs are hidden away in another sub-forum, then the historic forum will appear almost dead (or at least, very historic!) Although Pirates has had some recent activity in the main forum, the last thread on the second page hasn't been touched since November 2019. The last thread on the second page of Historic goes back to just April 1.

[leafan]

7 hours ago, Grover said:

Although there is a roleplaying aspect to the building, it's not terribly stringent and if you wanted to, you could just build a bunch of freebuilds and never participate in the challenges or develop a story.  The only real requirement would be to sign up for a particular guild so they get points for your builds.

From my perspective, that'd be 1 step too far just to share a moc. I don't ever visit Guilds of Historica though so perhaps it's just me.

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Most of the recent topics in the main historic section are MOCs. If MOCs are hidden away in another sub-forum, then the historic forum will appear almost dead (or at least, very historic!)

I have a strong feeling that the conversation would be helped, not hindered, by having those discussion topics more visible on page 1 of the Histroic pages.

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Although Pirates has had some recent activity in the main forum, the last thread on the second page hasn't been touched since November 2019. The last thread on the second page of Historic goes back to just April 1.

As someone who frequents both, I can tell you that the Pirates one certainly feels more alive than this one; but perhaps that is because they have several highly invested, active members and that, this year has been a pretty good one for Pirate releases. My gut feeling is that Historic actually has more traffic potential, by a good margin, and maybe this could be stimulated with some small changes.

I appreciate all of the feedback, and it does seem that I am in the minority with my thoughts on this.

So can anyone actually tell me who the moderator is for these forums? Who makes the decisions here specifically?

Edited April 29, 2020 by leafan
Clarification

[TeriXeri]

MOC in seperate sections would help, or at the very least consider Pinning more recent theme discussions.

Especially for the Town and Special Theme forum, the pinned threads there as dating back to 2008-2012.

I've seen the discussions about City/Speed Champions/ Friends/Creator/DOTS 2020 etc. fall to another page so sometimes a duplicate topic gets made as a result, while they are pinned on other forum sections like the Action forum as example.

 

Edited April 29, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Grover]

6 hours ago, leafan said:

From my perspective, that'd be 1 step too far just to share a moc. I don't ever visit Guilds of Historica though so perhaps it's just me.

I have a strong feeling that the conversation would be helped, not hindered, by having those discussion topics more visible on page 1 of the Histroic pages.

If you like looking at some great MOCs, you should visit GOH.  If you like discussing non-MOCs, this is probably the right forum for you.  I prefer looking at and commenting on MOCs.  I came to these forums to get feedback to improve my building, not really to discuss non-builds much, although I occasionally do (see this thread!).  Thus, I don't really come out here to the historic forums much except to occasionally look at MOCs.

I would also say to each their own.  If it's one step too far to share a MOC just to sign up, for some people, it's also one step too far to click on a sub forum to look for discussion or MOCs for others.  Thus, to each their own.  I, for one, will likely never read the main historic forums again if the MOCs are put in their own separate subforum.  I found this thread just looking for MOCs.

[leafan]

6 hours ago, Grover said:

If you like looking at some great MOCs, you should visit GOH.

 

6 hours ago, Grover said:

I, for one, will likely never read the main historic forums again if the MOCs are put in their own separate subforum.  I found this thread just looking for MOCs.

But don't you think that these 2 statements are a contradictory?

Right now MOCs are shared in both the main forum and GOH, a sub-forum.

[Grover]

1 hour ago, leafan said:

But don't you think that these 2 statements are a contradictory?

Right now MOCs are shared in both the main forum and GOH, a sub-forum.

No.  MOCs for those who have signed up for GOH go in the GOH forum.  Everything else goes in this forum.  As you said, there are people who do not want to have to sign up for GOH for their MOCs.  Thus, their builds go here.  BOTBS is much the same way on the pirate forum I expect.

My invitation was for you to come look at the guilds on GOH since you said you never go there, unless their being part of a role playing game really turns you off.  There are some excellent MOCs in GOH that you're missing out on if you never go there, and you usually get great feedback.  I don't know if you MOC and want feedback on your builds or prefer discussing non-MOC themes on the boards.  It depends on what you want.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Grover

[leafan]

2 hours ago, Grover said:

No.  MOCs for those who have signed up for GOH go in the GOH forum.  Everything else goes in this forum.  As you said, there are people who do not want to have to sign up for GOH for their MOCs.  Thus, their builds go here.  BOTBS is much the same way on the pirate forum I expect.

My invitation was for you to come look at the guilds on GOH since you said you never go there, unless their being part of a role playing game really turns you off.  There are some excellent MOCs in GOH that you're missing out on if you never go there, and you usually get great feedback.  I don't know if you MOC and want feedback on your builds or prefer discussing non-MOC themes on the boards.  It depends on what you want.

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree and think that if a sub-forum were to exist purely for MOCs (non-GOH), then you'd actually be helped in finding them by virtue of having their own sub-forum.

If that means that you'd no longer visit the Historic main forum and read discussions, then I think that is fine as you don't seem to be interested in them.

In regard to GOH, I should have said I rarely visit them, not never. I agree that there are some great mocs in there but for reasons I don't want to get into here (so to not derail this thread), I don't think they're as clearly presented as they could be as a MOC piece.

[Grover]

1 hour ago, leafan said:

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree and think that if a sub-forum were to exist purely for MOCs (non-GOH), then you'd actually be helped in finding them by virtue of having their own sub-forum.

If that means that you'd no longer visit the Historic main forum and read discussions, then I think that is fine as you don't seem to be interested in them.

In regard to GOH, I should have said I rarely visit them, not never. I agree that there are some great mocs in there but for reasons I don't want to get into here (so to not derail this thread), I don't think they're as clearly presented as they could be as a MOC piece.

We shall agree to disagree then.  I do not find value in splitting the Historic forums into MOC and non-MOC, and am afraid that we will lose traffic if we try to organize that way, but it doesn't bother me much either way if everyone wants to reorganize the Historic part of the forums.  I do think that lumping the GOH MOCs into the regular MOCs would be a bad idea, however, as it would make it difficult to find the GOH MOCs properly for story coherence.  I also disagree that the GOH MOCs are not clearly presented, as I find them to usually be more clearly presented that non-storyline MOCs here, so quite the opposite view point!

I do I appreciate your civil discourse and well-thought out responses, as there are members in other forums who are not very polite, and I think it's great that we have differing opinions and can have a rational discussion.  Thank you for that!

As for GOH, I personally find that having a consistent storyline can help drive and preserve builds.  Tolkien invented languages, and part of his reason for inventing Middle Earth was that he knew that a language without a culture would die (e.g., esperanto).  He wanted his world's culture, even if fictional, to preserve his languages.  In the same way, I find that my builds are more memorable and help to inspire others when they are part of an ongoing story, so I build in GOH.  I respect that not everyone sees things that way and certainly not everyone is into roleplaying, which can turn folks off, too, but I am happy to have a place in which I can present a story with my builds.  I am not really into the scorekeeping aspects of the game, so were I to build for BOTBS or Andromeda, etc., I would not pay much attention to scoring.

I know that digresses a bit, but I think it also helps illustrate the delineation between GOH and the other MOCs, so hopefully that was worthwhile.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Grover

[MAB]

21 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

MOC in seperate sections would help, or at the very least consider Pinning more recent theme discussions.

Especially for the Town and Special Theme forum, the pinned threads there as dating back to 2008-2012.

I've seen the discussions about City/Speed Champions/ Friends/Creator/DOTS 2020 etc. fall to another page so sometimes a duplicate topic gets made as a result, while they are pinned on other forum sections like the Action forum as example.

 

Those forums have active themes right now. What active historic themes are there that need to be pinned? LOTR was pinned while is was active, then unpinned as it is no longer current. 

[TeriXeri]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

Those forums have active themes right now. What active historic themes are there that need to be pinned? LOTR was pinned while is was active, then unpinned as it is no longer current. 

I meant the Pinning for Town and Special Themes forum, sorry if it wasn't clear.

I just posted here, as it's a recent discussion about the state/improving the forum, and overall structure across more then just Historic.

I'm not saying Town/Special would need a seperate MOC section, but pinning the 2020 theme threads would be a good start.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Pdaitabird]

9 hours ago, leafan said:

I understand what you're saying, but I disagree and think that if a sub-forum were to exist purely for MOCs (non-GOH), then you'd actually be helped in finding them by virtue of having their own sub-forum.

Personally, I would find it more helpful to have some way of separating or differentiating the Medieval/Castle/Fantasy builds (which seem to make up the vast majority of the forum's topics) from other historic themes. While the Pirates forum is a good home for any Age of Discovery/Enlightenment/Napoleonic subjects, MOCs based on other periods in history seem a bit out of place in what is essentially a Medieval forum. But there don't seem to be enough topics dedicated to ancient history or the western/Civil War/Victorian age to warrant another sub-forum, so I don't know if there is a solution. It just seems a bit odd that a MOC based on, say, the Battle of Gettysburg would go in the same forum as one based on Helm's Deep. 

[leafan]

@Pdaitabird Yeah I agree with this. I think that each distinct theme should have it's own sub-forum.

Western and Tolkien certainly fit in that category.

Edited May 1, 2020 by leafan

[Grover]

I want to see these forums thrive and do well.  Although it makes sense to categorize each theme, I am concerned that over-organizing the posts into sub forums will diminish traffic.  There are very few western builds.  How many subforums do we need?

GOH
MOCs
Roman
Greek
Medieval
Reniassance
Miscellaneous

This is a reasonable question, as I don't see enough builds outside of medieval to populate their own forums.  If have a subforum that gets 1 post a month, is that worth it?

[leafan]

2 minutes ago, Grover said:

I want to see these forums thrive and do well.  Although it makes sense to categorize each theme, I am concerned that over-organizing the posts into sub forums will diminish traffic.  There are very few western builds.  How many subforums do we need?

GOH
MOCs
Roman
Greek
Medieval
Reniassance
Miscellaneous

This is a reasonable question, as I don't see enough builds outside of medieval to populate their own forums.  If have a subforum that gets 1 post a month, is that worth it?

I don't think that every era of history needs it's own sub-forum, but having one for the likes of Western and Tolkien wouldn't harm in my opinion.

I could see Tolkien taking a few posts away from the main forum but for Western, it can only benefit. Right now, if you only wanted to see Western stuff, that would be difficult to filter to.

[Grover]

As a side question, how did we wind up with LotR in the Historic Themes, and Licensed didn't get it?  LotR isn't exactly historic.

We do have some Roman builds happening, too (most notably the crucifixion recently), so perhaps a forums for that?  And does each subforum consolidate discussion and MOCs, or is it just MOCs there, and all discussion happens in the main forum?

[MAB]

15 hours ago, Grover said:

As a side question, how did we wind up with LotR in the Historic Themes, and Licensed didn't get it?  LotR isn't exactly historic.

 

Because it is Castle-like, and MOCs of LOTR type scenery are of interest to historic builders and vice versa.

I don't see the need for sub forums for different eras. The good thing about having a main forum only is that you view a wide range of MOCs within a general theme. Sometimes you don't even know what they are going to be until you click on them. Whereas if you pigeonhole everything into specific sub-forums, then MOCs will get ever less views. If there was a Western sub-forum, for example, I probably wouldn't ever look in there. Whereas when the MOCs are in historic, I occasionally click on one and normally appreciate it. I wouldn't go looking for them, but it is nice to look at them from time to time. Plus I don't really see what problem having sub-forums actually solves. It is not like there are so many MOCs that viewers cannot keep up with them.

You could separate history in categories such as pre-history, Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greek, Ancient Roman, Dark Ages, Middle Ages, Renaissance, Industrial Revolution, and so on. You could have even more detailed sections, or less sections that were less focused. But a lot of the techniques used to make builds in one era are just as relevant for builds in other eras. Part of looking at a MOC is just looking at what it is. But (at least for me) another important part is looking at how it is built.

Edited May 2, 2020 by MAB