Technic Parts Exclusive to Specific Sets

[Captainowie]

I think that the only answer to ANY question of the form "Why would LEGO do X?" is "We don't know", unless of course TLG come out with a statement explaining why they did X

[dr_spock]

Most Power Function LEGO trains also allow for easy addition of PF LEDs for engine headlights. Instructions are included in the instruction manual but the PF LEDs has to be purchased separately.

[KamalMYafi]

Why LEGO Power Functions rechargeable battery 84599 are not in any set? except 8878

[Kristof]

@DrJB

I still can't get rid of feeling that this whole topic and discussion is rather fabricated and somewhat augmented. It simply is the way lego sets are made now (not only today ro this year - we are talking past... decade, at very least!). Earlier, true, part palette was much more limited which - besides all the negatives - indeed has its obvious positive that it was easier to build sets you didn't buy... but in fact, that has never been granted, still you had to have decent stock at home and there were much fewer sets being produced these days, which also increase this impression of 'universality'. Now, with more specialized parts, some of which happen to be quite unique, the models are cooler, more accurate, more interesting. And the argument that it makes it difficult to what actually - bricklink the parts? Or build it from your stock parts? - just doesn't seem very valid to me.

From what you are saying it sort of feels like there were sets that would exclusively contain some super essential and indispensable key parts, while otherwise being crappy sets which you have no other reason to obtain. Well I don't think that's the reality :)

If you like the set and you want to own it, there is hardly any cheaper way than buying the box. If you don't like the set, you most likely won't miss those few rare parts either. And if you from some reason desperately need these parts, well, then you have to pay some extra, either by getting the set just for the parts or to hunt them down on aftermarket.

Nowhere in this equation I see some catty effort of TLG to force anyone to buy anything.

[DrJB]

@DrJB

I still can't get rid of feeling that this whole topic and discussion is rather fabricated and somewhat augmented ...

Nowhere in this equation I see some catty effort of TLG to force anyone to buy anything.

The topic is neither fabricated nor augmented. This is a forum i.e., a room for discussion, and if you missed the point, you need to re-visit. Obviously you and I are from different generations. When I was growing up, lego was about buying sets and building whatever you wanted. Today, to some extent (not just Technic) it has evolved into building specific contraptions with a certain number of UNIQUE parts. Of course YOU are entitled to YOUR opinion, but don't go hammering on me as to the validity of the post. YES, it is a proven fact that TLG uses unique parts to sell specific sets. You do not agree? Well, my little girl is always asking for a different Elves set because it has a key with a different color/pattern. It is now about collecting all the possible variations of that key ... No, no one is twisting my arm to do anything, not TLG, not my daughter. I was merely asking for what the 'community' thought of such unique parts, and if you think the post is NOT appropriate, please notify the mods, and move on.

Happy building, gluing, MOCing, hacking, ... complaining, or whatever it is you like to do with YOUR legos. ;)

[Cumulonimbus]

I have tried to bite my tongue on this one, but I'll bite the lure.

Please don't take offense, but I'm with krisandkris12 on these types of topics. Call me old fasioned, but I expect that topics are started with a certain goal in mind: solve a technical question, help with a MOC build process, share a review, update the community on new sets, etc. I wonder what the goal is here.

This feels like a discussion for the sake of discussing. As mentioned by Captainowie, without input of TLG, your question can never truely be answered and us assuming and guessing is, in my opinion, not bringing you closer to an answer.

Again, this critique is not aimed at you personally DrJB, but I just feel this forum getting diluted and the information I want to read is more difficult to find as a result.

[Kristof]

This is a forum i.e., a room for discussion, and if you missed the point, you need to re-visit.

Questioning certain topic from the point of 'sense' or validity is a part of discussion or would you consider otherwise? I don't see why would you yell in uppercase if someone disagree with you ;)

Cumulonimbus named it perfectly - discussion for the sake of discussing. Started as a question about certain technic parts, now seem to be disctussion about exclusivity and collecability in general...?

Forgive me but I really feel that your question and arguments suggest that you somehow ignored the reality of evolution of (not only) TLG and lego market in past decades. It's like waking up one day and going like 'what the he** are unique parts for?'.

You started discussing Technic parts (even named examples) and you got some explanations on what might be the reasons for short lifetime or intentional exclusivity of these parts. But you quickly evolved your argumentation on whole assortment (talking lego Elves now) which is significantly different area (collectible minifigs to come? Only come in one polybag set, what a shame).

Of course that such modern-kid-aimed product lines like Elves use new minifigs or whatever parts to boost the demand (and sales consequently). Of course there are aspects of collectability and the quality of the set itself (in terms of building experience etc) has been shifted on the side track. I share your (guessing negative) opinion on these trends but these are obvious and not new and most importanly - not occuring in lego Technic.

I'm myself not happy about how certain toys look like today and yes, this unfortunately includes some lego sets. I think there could (perhaps) be an interesting discussion about that but that neither belongs in Technic forum, nor is initiated by your question. Plus such discussion is usually very vague, people throw in their unbacked guesses and fast baked opinions including pointless critique and lack of insight into such complex problem (market, business, competition, business, sales, business...). As for me, I don't feel educated enough to contribute into such discussion, maybe except sharing whether I like it or not...

To conclude, as much as you are free to start whatever topic (within the bounds of forum rules), others are free to express their opinions. I did. By no means I wanted to attack you as a person, because you are most likely nice guy (which I like to presume unless the person proves otherwise) and I apologize if my critique went to straight forward. I hope I made myself clearer now.

Edited March 10, 2016 by krisandkris12

[KamalMYafi]

I apologize, because it seems i shouldn't ask about that question, because like Captainowie said

I think that the only answer to ANY question of the form "Why would LEGO do X?" is "We don't know", unless of course TLG come out with a statement explaining why they did X

[Kristof]

@Kamal

There is nothing wrong on asking I guess :) Captainowie made good point there that a lot of such questions has no obvious answer we can figure out without asking Lego.

In this case, however, I'll make a guess - rechargable box is expensive. If they included it in sets, they would have to increase the price (quite significantly) and that could discourage some potential customers from making the purchase. Since they have cheaper replacement in form of AAA box, that is I think the reason.

The product itself exist as an alternative (or upgrade) for people who really want it and use its benefits.

Important note - all just my guesses ;)

[KamalMYafi]

@krisandkris12

Ooh thank you, now I know why no rechargeable box on technic sets. Although it was just your guess.

Edited March 10, 2016 by KamalMYafi

[Zerobricks]

Also, I tink using any other battery box, but the AA one for technic would seem....not technic style, if you get my drift. The smaller battery boxes are all studded and in not-odd sizes, so they dont fit so well in modern studdles, odd-numbered technic system.

Also as long as TLG doesnt do too many exclusive parts (like pre-2000's) for a specific set I dont mind it. But its nice if the parts are rerelased in other sets later on (like tumbler wheels, or portal hubs, ball joints and springs in the unimog).

Having said that I am still waiting for a set to use the Mobile crane MKII's sliding red 8 tooth gears, Volvo's showel and the Arocs's sliding parts (which IMO could be used nicely on the new Xerion's arm).

Edited March 10, 2016 by Zblj

[DrJB]

Questioning certain topic from the point of 'sense' or validity is a part of discussion or would you consider otherwise? I don't see why would you yell in uppercase if someone disagree with you ;)

To conclude, as much as you are free to start whatever topic (within the bounds of forum rules), others are free to express their opinions. I did. By no means I wanted to attack you as a person, because you are most likely nice guy (which I like to presume unless the person proves otherwise) and I apologize if my critique went to straight forward. I hope I made myself clearer now.

Thank you for opening up and clarifying your position. Allow me to answer few points as well.

1. I was not yelling. I tend to be rather verbose in my writing, and to make sure what the emphasis is in my statement, I write the 'key' words in upper case. Maybe there is a non-written rule in this internet ether that equates CAPS with YELLING, but I'm not aware of such.

2. While I fully agree with you and others that questions such as the one I asked, we'll never get a true answer to, is it not ok to still gather 'opinions' as to what people thought of such practice? In my many years (and I'm not lecturing), I've learned that there is way more than pure black and white: There is PERCEPTION. And so far, these exclusive parts (to me) seem like a mechanism to push sales. Others will disagree, but I'm sure many more might see it the same.

3. Lastly, about what questions/topics are and are not allowed on here, my position is this: We live in a very diverse world, and while Mr CloudGuy (Cumulonimbus) ;) has different expectations from the forum, mine have some overlap with his, but not 100%. It would be very boring if all of us came here for the same exact reason. Many of us buy the newspaper (if any remember what it is) and read SPECIFIC sections only ... I do not read the newspaper, and yet I do not tell anyone what should and should not go there. I think I made my point ... ;)

In any event, to me this is a forum i.e., a place for discussions, whether it's about the latest MOCs, building ideas, finding out 'official' information, or even collecting opinions (as it was my intention) ... and the main point is to walk away a bit satisfied from this interaction, hopefully not with a higher blood pressure.

Peace to all.

Edited March 10, 2016 by DrJB

[Kristof]

@Zblj

Good points.

Sliding 8 tooth are on my wishlist too. Volvos shovel is very typical for front loaders - I guess it would have to be very similar model to use it. Not expecting such release anytime soon. Arocs sliders on contrary could be useful in whole variety of applications. I wish they will.

@DrJB

Feeling the written messages does sometimes cause a misinterpretations. All fine.

Edited March 10, 2016 by krisandkris12

[Samer]

One of the most famous rare parts is hailfire droid wheel/geer. Comes only in set 4481 and the part sells for the price of a medium size set.

[nerdsforprez]

LOL ... I bet the tatoo was MORE expensive than the shock absorber itself.

Okay too funny...... when I initially saw this pic I was on my iphone (small screen) and this looked like hair. I had no idea why there was a female Lego minifig with butt hair growing up out of her bikini bottom :laugh: Now i am home and I see this on the big screen that it si actually a tattoo.... still, too funny

[DrJB]

Glad u appreciate. I was looking for actual lego tattoos on people, but when I found this, I simply HAD to share.

Edited March 10, 2016 by DrJB

[TinkerBrick]

We should not forget that most of those parts we are talking (at the newer ones) can be easily obtained at the TLG customer service.

And in many cases those newer parts are cheaper there.

[Riley-NZL]

YES, it is a proven fact that TLG uses unique parts to sell specific sets. You do not agree?

Where has this been proven?

Why LEGO Power Functions rechargeable battery 84599 are not in any set? except 8878

Very clever :P

[DrJB]

Where has this been proven?

Well, it's proven to ME. You may have a different opinion and that is alright. I have kids and went through many 'series' and it's always the same story: We need such set because it has that unique part of minifig. It was the same story with their friends and their parents. Need more 'proof'? Go search for the green ninja from Ninjago, which was released only once in an expensive set and still today commands a high price tag on eBay. But again, the data is there, and the interpretation is up to the one looking through the lens.

[Riley-NZL]

Well, it's proven to ME. You may have a different opinion and that is alright. I have kids and went through many 'series' and it's always the same story: We need such set because it has that unique part of minifig. It was the same story with their friends and their parents. Need more 'proof'? Go search for the green ninja from Ninjago, which was released only once in an expensive set and still today commands a high price tag on eBay. But again, the data is there, and the interpretation is up to the one looking through the lens.

I don't know much about the Ninjago sets, but I know in lego City sets, the "unique" mini-fig's in the expensive sets are intentionally always released in a cheap set as well.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Riley-NZL

[DrJB]

I don't know much about the Ninjago sets, but I know in lego City sets, the "unique" mini-fig's in the expensive sets are intentionally always released in a cheap set as well.

You make it sound like I'm in the 'wrong' theme ... lol

[Lipko]

I'm anything but a molding expert, but is it really that expensive to make the tool? I mean, such a huge company either design/manufactures its own molds or has long proven/tried suppliers who design a tool in no time due to their experience with the material and similar parts. So a few molds that aren't reused again is really a bottleneck? They don't even have to manufacture more tools because the relative low number of produced parts, there's no significant tool wear.

[DrJB]

That's a very good point. In prior discussions, some have reported that a mold can cost up to $ 2-300 k, with such investment, TLG must sell millions of the specifc set to get decent ROI. It could very well be that they perfected the mold making technology so well that mold cost is now very low. Good point, again.

Edited March 11, 2016 by DrJB

[Kristof]

^ Does $200,000 sound reasonable for a piece of (no matter how precisely) machined metal? I find it hard to believe... the figure feels several digits longer than I'd expect it to be.

Edited March 11, 2016 by krisandkris12

[Cumulonimbus]

Mould costs can vary widely, depending on product size and complexity, batch size, required temperature range (depending on the selected plastic), cooling capacity, etc.

In my experience, a mould for a relatively simple product measuring 5x5x5cm (a batch of 5000 pieces, two halves in one shot) costs in the region of €10.000.

However, Lego pieces require a much higher level of precision, often demand much more complex moulds and need to be produced reliably in huge series, so I would imagine a mould of €100k would not be out of the ordinary. On the other hand, there are cheaper techniques possible with copper moulds for injection moulding smaller series. Only TLG knows what their moulds cost.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Cumulonimbus