Didumos69 Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) This topic has been followed up here: http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=123304 Edited September 28, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
LegoDego Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Very good and complex model! I want to see it in real life(especially suspension)! But I think there are not enough photos without wheels from a different angle. I am very interested in will there be a motorized version! Quote
tripletschiee Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Yeah, please add more detailled fotos of the (front) suspension! Quote
piterx Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 it looks so good! reminds me of oldschool TLG designs Quote
agrof Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Looks really-really good technically, the body might not match couple people's taste. I like it, but I like more the fact, that it is easy to "dress" the chassis for individual taste. For me the v12 is a bit overkill, but it fits perfectly without destroying the proportions, not to mention the front / rear idea, which is great! Do You plan to release it (maybe with instructions)? There are many nice details to get under the loupe. Fantastic modular build, congratulations! EDIT: I know I have seen this before... hmmm... but where? Edited January 23, 2016 by agrof Quote
Lipko Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 It looks awesome, I like the minimalist body design. Quote
zux Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Looks wonderful Yeah, please add more detailled fotos of the (front) suspension!I would love to see front suspension pics as well. Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Thanks for all the nice responses! Very good and complex model! I want to see it in real life(especially suspension)! But I think there are not enough photos without wheels from a different angle. I am very interested in will there be a motorized version! More images of the front suspension are coming... I didn't plan to motorize it. I personally prefer to sense the drive while moving it by hand. But I can imagine their is space behind the seats and above the rear axles to place engines and a battery. I know I have seen this before... hmmm... but where? Whohahaha! It does go back to the time when I started playing with Lego Technic though;-) I don't know whether I will be making real building instructions. I'm currently working with groups in LDD to have a building guidline for myself. I might offer those in the future. I will soon be posting close-ups of the front suspension. Regards, Diederik Edited January 23, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
Lakop Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 That's a sweet looking model. I look forward to the real thing, i'm also interested in the suspension. H Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Update: I removed the images, the front suspension wasn't properly designed at this stage. As promised some pictures of and considerations behind the front suspension of the 'Steppenwolf': Kingpin inclination - To aim the projected axis of the steering down through the kingpin more towards the middle of the tire's width at the level where the tire touches the surface, the upper steering cup is moved 1M to the inside of the car while keeping the lower steering cup fixed. This reduces the scrub radius of the tyres. Zero scrub radius is possible without an inclined kingpin, but requires a deeply dished wheel so that the kingpin is at the centerline of the wheel. Lego wheels are not dished enough to have a vertical kingpin at the center of the wheel. Caster angle - To give the car a feeling of wanting to maintain a straight line, the kingpin leans slightly backwards. Variable camber angle - When the vehicle is in a turn, body roll should result in positive camber gain on the lightly loaded inside wheel, while the heavily loaded outer wheel should gain negative camber. Ackermann steering - A tooth rack with a fixed position with regard to the length of the car - it can only move sideways, not forwards or backwards - would weaken the effect of Ackermann steering when placed in front of the wheel axis. When placed behind the wheel axis, it actually amplifies the effect. Vertical arm - The extra vertical arm placed exactly halfway the upper and lower wishbones freezes the distance between the upper and lower steering cups during compression/expansion of the suspension. This locks up the self-assembled front hub and prevents it from getting disassembled during operation. Differential placed 0.5M in front - The differential is placed 0.5M in front of the wheel axis. This allows for a little more steering reach, because it gives the inner steering wheel some advantage on the outer steering wheel which is convenient because due to Ackerman steering the inner wheel will steer farther than the outer wheel. Suspension position under car's own weight - To make the overal suspension behavior a game of compression on one side and expansion on the other side, the normal suspension position under the car's own weight should be somewhat compressed. That will give the suspension some room to expand during operation. See also: https://bricksafe.co...olf/suspension. I'm curious what your opinion is about this. Regards, Diederik Edited February 13, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
Lipko Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 What will prevent the upper ball joint on the hub to be pushed more into the hub, thus weakening the lower ball joint connection? Plus how will the connector at the lower ball joint keep its position? Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 What will prevent the upper ball joint on the hub to be pushed more into the hub, thus weakening the lower ball joint connection? Plus how will the connector at the lower ball joint keep its position? The construction is of course a compromise. It does rely on the connector attached to the lower ball joint, which is indeed a weak point. If the hub would be a little larger, than the upper ball joint would already be completely pushed into the hub. In that case the vertical arm would lock up the hub and prevent the lower ball joint from getting disconnected. Ideas on how to make the hub an exact fit are welcome! Bear in mind that the hub needs space to turn en move up and down without touching the suspension wishbones, especially around the ball joints. Regards, Diederik Quote
Epic Technic Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 Great model, what program do you use to render the LDD files? Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 24, 2016 Author Posted January 24, 2016 Great model, what program do you use to render the LDD files? Thanks! I use Bluerenderer: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=109972 Quote
Zerobricks Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) While ai appreciate all you hard work that wnt into this model and espceially front suspension I do have some worries about the stability of the real life thing... As other noted the front hubs, as realistic as they are would probably fall apart after a few suspension bumps. I suggest you to try rotating the hub 90 degrees and rebuilding the outer casing in that orientation. Another thing that is not very good is the spring location. Either use two soft springs on both sides of the suspesnion arm or one strong one as close to center as possible. As it is now, there will be a lot of force on one side of the suspension arm and that force will bend the arm and the springs and whole thing will work with a lot of friction... Good suspension setups are very responsive and always return to the exact same position. Having said that I really like your universal chassis idea and I hope you can work on it further - making various interchengable suspension systems for example: - low racing style - current offroad one - rock crawler live axle one And you can also maybe try making modular body parts? I have yet to see A FULL modular design with bodywork included, I think it would be awesome! Keep up the good work and welcome Edited January 24, 2016 by Zblj Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) While ai appreciate all you hard work that wnt into this model and espceially front suspension I do have some worries about the stability of the real life thing... As other noted the front hubs, as realistic as they are would probably fall apart after a few suspension bumps. I suggest you to try rotating the hub 90 degrees and rebuilding the outer casing in that orientation. Another thing that is not very good is the spring location. Either use two soft springs on both sides of the suspesnion arm or one strong one as close to center as possible. As it is now, there will be a lot of force on one side of the suspension arm and that force will bend the arm and the springs and whole thing will work with a lot of friction... Good suspension setups are very responsive and always return to the exact same position. Having said that I really like your universal chassis idea and I hope you can work on it further - making various interchengable suspension systems for example: - low racing style - current offroad one - rock crawler live axle one And you can also maybe try making modular body parts? I have yet to see A FULL modular design with bodywork included, I think it would be awesome! Keep up the good work and welcome Having a full-time job and a family at home I'm affraid I won't find the time to live up to all of your suggestions, but thanks for thinking with me. My focus will remain to be on constructing a front wheel suspension that combines drive with aspects such as Ackermann steering, Camber angle, Caster angle etc. Making compromises will be inevitable, but if the result has some educational value (and of course does not fall apart while demonstrating) I will be satisfied. This also explains the minimalistic body; I want the suspension to have maximum room to travel under any steering angle. The educational purpose is also the reason why I don't plan to motorize this build. It's clear I have to go back to the drawing table when it comes to the front wheel hubs and their outer casing. I did manage to rearrange the outer casing such that the upper ball joint is fully lowered into the hub. This completely locks up the outer casing between the upper and lower wishbones (at the risk of labouring the obvious: the space between the upper and lower wishbones is fixed due to the vertical arm that connects the center of the upper wishbone with the center of the lower wishbone). However, the way the lower ball joint connects to the rest of the casing remains to be the weakest point of the setup. I will continue to search for improvement. About your suggestion to rotate the hub 90 degrees; I did investigate this, but couldn't come up with an appropriate setup. The lower ball joint would need to be placed beneath the hub, making the construction too large to fit inside the wheel, there would be no room to connect the lower suspension arm to the ball joint. Another aspect that narrows down the construction options is the fact that to obtain Ackermann steering the steering ball joint needs to be placed 1 studd to the inside of the car. When steering, this ball joint would bump into a vertical arm or shock absorber placed along the back side of the wish bones. This is why both the vertical arm and the shock absorber are both placed at the front side of the wish bones. The best compromise I found was to place the shock absorber as close as possible to the vertical arm. A push-rod-like shock absorber on top of the upper suspension arm would also be an option though. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Helps me to improve this concept. I'll keep you posted... Regards, Diederik Edited February 13, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
2LegoOrNot2Lego... Posted January 27, 2016 Posted January 27, 2016 Really great concepts and I really love the looks of it...!!! Quote
Didumos69 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) Update: I removed the images, the front suspension wasn't properly designed at this stage. Edited March 14, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
Didumos69 Posted February 14, 2016 Author Posted February 14, 2016 (edited) For more info see this follow-up topic: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=123304 Edited March 14, 2016 by Didumos69 Quote
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