the best moc i ever build

[Hinckley]

All right, so with quite a bit of talk about constructive criticism over the last couple of days I thought I'd start a fun thread we can refer to when someone needs a little guidance on the subject.

So, here's my idea. I'll pretend I'm a new member (whenever I type in blue bold) and I've posted my first MOC and everyone can practice giving constructive criticism. Ready? Okay, here goes:

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Hy my name is fartface! this is my first moc its the best one i build yet. it's a spaceship see? its my ist so go ez on me :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

its a green spaceship cuz its green but the bike runs it so it wont use fuel and pollute space. it has a tree in there too because its good for the environment. i put a ghost in cuz i thought it be cool if it be haunted

let me know what you think!!!!!!!!!~1

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IMO, contructive criticism is offering solutions for "faults" in an MOC instead of just pointings out the "faults". By pointing out why something isn't so great and offering advice on how to fix it, a builder can grow and learn and become a better MOCer. It's always nice to find something positive to start out with too...but the key is not being insulting, patronizing or combative, but helpful and diplomatic.

Think of it like we are a team of LEGO builders who want to be the best and have to help each other out in order to achieve that...

So, let's assume fartface isn't a back-talker and already knows how to re-size pics but he's really eager to be a better builder. How would you respond to him/me?

...and this is for everybody, not just those who need practice. If you have a good handle on the constructive criticism, by all means, show us how it's done! *sweet* *y*

I'll play fartface, you be you, okay-GO!

[Chuck]

Welcome Fartface!

A few things:

Try to pick out a few colors to give it a nice, fluid color scheme.

Try not to pick out colors that clash, but if you do, make it look alien to detract from that.

Baseplates should not be used on something this small, as it gives it a boxy appearance.

I like what you have for wings and engines, but I sugges compressing everything together, as it looks like you laid a few pieces for a WIP onto a baseplate.

If you want it bicycle powered, make it steampunk :-P

-Chuck

[Doctor Sinister]

Hi Fartface! (snigger)

I love your MOC, it has energy and style and it looks really exciting. I guess the tree in the back is the hydroponics area for oxygen generation? What a good idea.

I reckon it would look better though if you used some small plates to close it up a little, make the footprint a bit smaller and sleeker. Perhaps put some controls in the cockpit - if you really want a bicycle in there, maybe build a hold at the back and store it in there for planetary exploration? Once you've got a smaller hull, you could build a canopy over it and then maybe mount some weapons on the top or something?

I love the engines at the back - those little fins are dead cool, I think the use of the dragon wings is good as well - if you matched the colour scheme to the wings you'd have a wicked looking little fighter craft. And those click hinges on the main wings could be used to make the wings fold up when docking.

These are only suggestions though, but let us see more if you decide to fiddle with it!

Dr. S.

(how was that?)

[gylman]

OK Fartface.

I would start with colour. Colour is one of most important things when building something.

You have to pick something that:

1) makes sense for the type of thing you are building

2) you have enough parts in that colour

Also, usually more than one colour is used, so try to make a non-clashing combination (orange + gray = bad, red + gray = fine).

So, if you are planning to build a spaceship, probably you want to be using gray as a main colour, with highlights in other colours.

I see you already have two good gray parts (the rocket - burners at the back). Why not get some gray bricks, slopes, panels, and some gray train windows if you have them to make the body of your rocket.

The brown part you have the front can be gray too, but other colours that might work would be red, or a trans-shade. Brown, generally does not work well for space.

The green baseplate also should be either gray (if you want to make it part of the ship) or something like white if you want to make it part of the display that the spaceship sits on.

Once you have the main shell, tryto think of things you can put on that are NOT gray, like wings, instrument panels, landing gear, weapons. This way the details are highlighted, and the background is consistent.

Other members at this friendly forum will probably be talking about proportion, symmetry.

Good luck.

[Batbrick]

Hey Fartface! Welcome to the board!

It is good to see a member with such an enthusiastic attitude! :-)

I really like the idea behind your spaceship but here is a little suggestion for future MOCs:

Try not to cram too many ideas into one model, yours are great ideas, but it seems overstocked. Eliminate a couple of extra ideas and you can make them into another model! ;-)

I like your attitude Fartface (fartface :-D ) and hope to see you improve during your stay with Eurobricks! *sweet*

TTFN! >:-)

[john cleese]

well you almost have a time-cruiser/ twisters moc there and i would like it if it was fleshed out. You didnt seem to take alot of time in building this and its really REALLY not my cup of tea. I would recocomend researching other mocs on brickshelf and mocpages to learn new building techniques and familiarize yourself with mocing in the afol community. Im afraid this thing is suitable for the official lego gallery but not eurobricks. I dont want to seem harsh but we have certain standards here. If you revamped this thing i could probably give you more specific advice.

[SirNadroj]

Let me start out by saying this is a great idea, Hincky. This is just what some of this board needs. ;-)

Hi fartface, Welcome to EB!

That is an interesting MOC. Clever use of the dragon wings as the wings of a spaceship. ;-)

But it does need some improvment so it can be even better! *y* Try adding more to it, because at this stage, its lacking some peices. Also, you may want to build it on a smaller base ~ the one you are utilizing now is too big. Work on the cockpit and the front. *y*

(Hinckley, you are really playing the role of a new member well! (i,e, gramatical errors, etc. ;-) ) But I'm just being hypocritical and sterotyping! :-D ............... ;-) )

[Chuck]

What I don't understand is how you are implying that underaged, new members always have bad MOCs.

-Chuck

[john cleese]

What I don't understand is how you are implying that underaged, new members always have bad MOCs.

-Chuck

yes, yes, chuck we all know your 13 and build like moko and the gang.

[Starwars4J]

What I don't understand is how you are implying that underaged, new members always have bad MOCs.

-Chuck

He never mentioned being underaged...I've seen plenty of people over 18 who typed that badly.

[Chuck]

yes, yes, chuck we all know your 13 and build like moko and the gang.

14...and what?

-Chuck

[john cleese]

14...and what?

-Chuck

oh sorry, 14. Moko is a skilled japanese builder. Your post seemed rather not modest.

Edited October 1, 2007 by john cleese

[Hinckley]

What I don't understand is how you are implying that underaged, new members always have bad MOCs.

-Chuck

What I don't understand is why you would be combative for no reason in a thread where everyone else is having fun. :-/ I've already told you I think you're a good builder and I'm well aware of your age. Is there any reason for you to say something like that to me? No, there isn't!

[Asuka]

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*y*

[Chuck]

What I don't understand is why you would be combative for no reason in a thread where everyone else is having fun. :-/ I've already told you I think you're a good builder and I'm well aware of your age. Is there any reason for you to say something like that to me? No, there isn't!

Just wondering :-/

oh sorry, 14. Moko is a skilled japanese builder. Your post seemed rather not modest.

LOL! I thought you were implying that I was japanese!

2.

Kinky.

-Chuck

Edited October 1, 2007 by Chuck

[Hinckley]

Just wondering :-/

Chuck, you do know how to give constructive feedback which is nice to see. :-) The tips you gave Doug and fartface would actually be really helpful. Sometimes though, you seem to choose to be combative or use a cruel sense of humor just to get a rise out of people or get attention. This might cause people to react poorly to you. If you are joking, it doesn't come off that way. But it is nice to see you participate in these discussion and nice to know you are capable of being pro-community when you try. I hope to see more of that side of you as opposed to the other. *sweet* *y*

...

Now that's constructive criticism! *wacko* See? You don't necessarily even have to mean the positive things you say as long as the criticism is presented in a way that's diplomatic... X-D

[Siegfried]

Welcome to Eurobricks fartface!

First of all I would like to say that your photography is excellent. If it wasn't for the fact that is is missing a watermark I would think it was someone elses! *wub* But on the MOC itself, while it is extreamely unique and interesting, I think it does need some tweaks before it is perfect.

1. The baseplate - I wouldn't reccomend this. It stands out too much. If you haven't got the pieces to fill it then you really should pick something smaller.

2. The pieces - Going by some of your pieces I can tell that your Lego collection must be decent, yet you seem to be picking pieces at random from several themes. Is this the look you were going for? I personally wouldn't use so much variety as it is hard to make it all work. I have never seen a haunted spacecraft before though! :-P

3. Engines - Try to think of how this spaceship will work. The engines at the back are isolated and have no way of being fueled or even controlled. As Chuck said, making it steampunk could be what you want. That way you can do fantastical designs but still have them semi-believable. (I should remind you though that you shouldn't worry about polluting deep space, one little ship can't make that much difference.)

I would love to see the next phase of this very interesting creation.

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*y*

I laughed my head off when I saw that! :-P It's great to see your old title back too. *sweet*

[john cleese]

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*y*

NO! You dont have to waste the pieces. X-D

[Corvus]

Now that's constructive criticism! *wacko* See? You don't necessarily even have to mean the positive things you say as long as the criticism is presented in a way that's diplomatic... X-D

Oh great, going for political correctness, now, are we? Down the tubes we go. :'-(

:-P

Welcome to EB, fartface!

First, I'd like to say that if this is going to be a "green" spaceship, you might want to downsize it a bit. After all, modern "green" vehicles are small!

Also, if you're going to put on dragon wings, maybe make it as John Cleese said, by turning it into time-cruiser/twister MOC! That way, you can put in all the features you want, including the ghost. A ghost ship would be a pretty new idea, too!

*y*

[hollisbrick]

Welcome to EB fartface.

Thats a very...umm...creative moc you have there. It reminds my of the thme time cruisers.

Btw was your parents drunk when they called youhinckleyfartface or are they just really mean? X-D

(Btw hinckley i get what your saying when people say "go easy on me it's my 1st moc" )

[ApophisV]

What I don't understand is how you are implying that underaged, new members always have bad MOCs.

-Chuck

Actually the imlication is more like "A really bad MOC comes most probably from a young and unexperienced builder", not "A young builder builds always really bad MOCs.

This is a huge difference! And even if your are relatively young (for a forum with a 18+ "rule"), I guess you will have noticed this "fact" (the first one) many times yourself, in most cases bad MOCs come from newbies and in most cases those newbies are new to the LEGO business. You see, there are two high probabilities mixing up together resulting in the first "fact" I wrote down.

Did this make sense? If not feel free to give construction criticism! ;-)

[Hinckley]

All right! Great first round everybody! :-D :-D :-D

Now, I'll give you all some coaching (constructive criticism) on your constructive criticism. Wow, that sounds pretentious of me. Anyone can join in on the feedback too...

Chuck way to hussle, buddy. Nice to see you in there first. You really got your head in the game, showing a nice drive and ambition. Okay, I'll cut the coach crap now. Great job to start out with something positive, welcoming fartface to Eurobricks. You gave some great building tips. Sometimes a new builder might find so many tips daunting, so try to start a couple out as compliments. Instead of saying, "if you like the bike, try steampunk" say "the bike is a creative idea. It reminds me of steampunk, my favorite theme." Or however you want to phrase it.

Doctor Sinister-here we have the perfect example of a constructive criticism tool-the positive/negative sandwich. The meat of the critique is delivered between two slices of positive bread! :-D As with a real sandwich, the bread makes the meat easier to swallow. Don't make the meat too big though, because then the bread won't seem to matter...go analogy go!

gylman you came in like a boxing coach! *y* Nice job with excellent tips. The one thing I would do is welcome him a little bit first. Coming in with OK fartface and launching into tips may seem a little intimidating to a new builder. The thing you really nailed though is constructive tips-with follow through-explaining the reasoning and execution of your tips! Well done...

Batbrick-another great example of the positive/negative sandwich technique! What's great here is that it is short and sweet. You offered one point to work on, which is a good idea considering he already got so many other tips from responses before yours...What I liked about your positive thoughts were they were about his attitude. Even if you don't like the MOC, you can say something nice about the person's creativity or enthusiasm. Great job!

john cleese-all right, not bad. I have to wonder though, do we really have "a standard" on Eurobricks? I would not say something like that to a new builder. If someone came here and said "I built a jumbo jet" and it was two 2 x 6 red bricks stacked to make a 't' and a windshield I think they have as much right to post as someone who is an expert...You gave some nice tips-researching on Brickshelf, making it like Time Cruisers, but chasing someone out the door with a broom is a little discouraging...

- a lot of people who respond in harsh ways to things like this say "But that is just how I am. I tell it like it is." Great! That's fine. But, you choose ways to tell it like it is and you should consider how it makes the other person feel. To participate in a friendly community, you should think "encourage" instead of "discourage"...

Sir Nadroj-You are usually very good at this from what I've seen. Great job here, too. You found something you liked. Seriously, everybody, it's the worst MOC ever, but finding one thing that is ok and pointing it out is a great way to try to help someone out. Here, Sir Nadroj simply said the use of the dragon wings is clever. That'll make someone feel good: clever! Then with the door open, he made some gentle suggestions, not harsh or patronizing, but friendly. Nice!

Sinner-Nice opening with a positive compliment and an expert transition ("before it is perfect") into the critique. A little "candy-coated" sure, but that is not a bad thing, just a personal style choice...As with Gylman's critique, you gave thorough tips and explained how and why to incorporate them. Your language and space expertise might be a little daunting for new builders or especially younger builders. I know you can't help it and I actually love you for it. Nice way to close with positive encouragement.

-That's a good point to make on the positive/negative sandwich idea: The "bread" doesn't have to be a compliment, it can just be giving someone some positive energy. i.e. Again, Welcome to Eurobricks, I hope to see more of your creations! That way, if you really don't like a creation at all, you don't have to make something up if you don't want to. But, I really think people can find at least one clever thing about any MOC that's posted.

Mr. M-Nice job as well. You got some positive energy in there and good tips. It was very short and sweet which is good sometimes with a new builder to just give a little bit, you know? That way they're not too intimidated. Especially with as many comments before you as you had. If you are the first reply, maybe stretch it out a little, but you did a real nice job offering tips and being encouraging.

Hollisbrick-Well done, friend. You may want to leave the ...um... and the parent insulting out (I'm aware you were just joking with me) but your response was mostly friendly and constructive. Thanks.

So, if I seem totally pretentious, I apologize. I hope I'm not coming off that way and encourage anyone to join in on the discussion. I don't really think I'm the coach... :-/

In a little bit, I'll post phase II-fartface goes back to the drawing board and see how well you communicated your tips and how you do if your tip was misinterpreted...

Have fun everybody! *sweet*

[gylman]

LOL Hinckie. I think my students would agree with you about my teaching style.

No sugar, just meat.

[Hinckley]

LOL Hinckie. I think my students would agree with you about my teaching style.

No sugar, just meat.

I agree with the "football coach" method of no BS. I prefer it in person. Online, however, without benefit of tone or personality, it may come off as harsh to the more sensitive...

only my opinion :-$ ! By the way, I'll bet you're an awesome teacher!

[Lasse D]

To be completely honest, I probably wouldn't reply to his thread.

I know it's a terrible thing to do as there is nothing worse than having a thread with your creation silently dump from first page without any replies.

It is probably because of my bad experience in another LEGO forum where a new guy posted something he made and everybody acted as if he attacked the community (the work looked very childish, but not at all offensive). I asked people to reconsider that he might actually be a very young member (which he was!), but instead I got moderators on my neck.

Now I have the idea that I should always either write some constructive criticism apart from the initial reaction or simply talk about some of the great details if I find everything to be good. To write that kind of response for this kind of creation is hard, so I'm glad you are picking up the topic Hinckley. Thank you.

It is always easier if you know the person behind the MOC, but the Internet tends to take away that little piece of help, and I'm sadly too terrified for hurting others peoples feelings by not treading carefully in my replies. People who know me will know that I use self-irony so much that it's bordering selflessness (where I sometimes even mistake insults as if they were sarcastic), but how are you to know that from what I have posted so far in here?

Edit

Did I go too personal here? Well. It needed to get out.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Lasse D