Blacktron Mafia: Day 3, Spaceship Soldiers

[Hinckley]

Well if one minor statement by me and one night action by Paul means we're on the same team, then he's town. Because I am. Or MAYBE you're making too much out of nothing. I mean, you're not far off here from saying "player X used the word 'indeed' yesterday and player Y used it today, they MUST be quoting off the scum board together!"

Listen, I'm the first to admit that I think I'm more clever than is healthy for me to think. And once a train of thought leads me somewhere, I get stuck in that station. Yes, we all saw it in Ragnarok when I got Pie lynched. When I just had to get him lynched because I was so sure I had figured it out. It's unhealthy. I know. Yes, it's true. But...Dave is 1000 times Scummier than Pie was when he played the seventh Scum of Ragnarok III. 1000 times, precisely. And you possibly have the Scum Perspective to theorize about Clem's possible Actions through a role that Dave actually has and used in exactly that way. And you've done a lot of Scummy things on top of that. Proposing to claim to Clem, but then saying not to! Proposing to connect the code to identify the tracker, but then saying not to!

And yes, I've read the conclusions and so forth - but that doesn't mean I memorized every night action that has ever been used. Why would I assume that no scum team has ever had a watcher on EB when I haven't played in every game ever, haven't been scum very often, and it's explicitly normal according to mafiascum? It seems to me like a logical role to give the scum, so therefore something I didn't even think twice about mentioning. If we've had pill games and shape-shifters and so forth, why would me thinking that the scum might have a watcher be so inconceivable to you?

You're saying two things and proving my point. 1. You aren't aware of the EB standard. 2. You thought of Watcher because hosts like to try new things. But, being unaware that Scum Watcher isn't common on EB would explain why you would use Scum Watcher as the example without knowing it would later cause your team trouble and directly implicate your Watcher.

You do love to make a big deal out of people reading and not posting. Remember, most of us have jobs on this planet. And the last post I read from you (before this latest couple) was the "why haven't people voted?!?!?!" post - and I HAVE. So I didn't feel the need to respond to your bolded tantrum.

Sowwy.

[Dragonfire]

Last night I visited Clem and someone visited him.

Why do you keep blantantly ignoring EVERYTHING MINGA SAYS IN PM

[

If I was a betting man, I'd make the Scum team this: Paul, 4 of 2, Rip Sewer, Harriet.

Paul's definitely a watcher, the question is which alignment is he?

Minga and Dragonfire seem to trust him

:wacko:

WTF? How do you figure we're "involved"? You GAVE ME THEIR TWO NAMES. Because you did that (and I had no idea you did not tell them names), I contacted each to just say hi and let them know I had indeed received a code piece. That's all.

Okay, this is weird. Someone's definitely lying here, or else Zipzop has been feeding different information to Seamus and 4-of-2.

I finally remember what pinged me from the vote analysis. I re-read Minga's summary:

6 votes for Clementine Lister (Lind Whisperer): (Chromeknight, Sir Stig, Xenophobic Monoxide, Lazychicken, Lady K, Dragonfire

That's the day 1 votes. Is there any chance that NO scum would have been on the Clem wagon, unless Clem IS scum? Nope. So out of Clem, Zipzop, and Minga, there is a scum.

Yes, there is a chance that no scum were on the Clem wagon. There'll never be a 100% chance of anything unless everyone on the wagon has died and flipped.

[Dragonfire]

Zipzop, the only way that the scum could have known that Vasquez had part of the code was if Nathan or Diamond were scum...

Nope, but since pretty much every single game here the host has tried SOMETHING new, I don't restrict my thinking to only the normal. I've also only been scum a couple times, so I'm honestly not that familiar with the "normal" scum team setup. Just noticed that my sig doesn't state side on a bunch of the games, but it's only been 2 or 3 games I've been scum IIRC. And it's not like it's that outlandish of a role. Heck, Mafascum wiki declares watcher to be normal on either alignment. Not just townie.

Minga has played three games with you in which you were scum, so there's those for starters.

Scum Watcher is pretty unusual though on EB, whatever Mafiascum says.

*I know he didn't claim Scum Watcher but that's what is highly implicated by 4 of 2 postulating yesterday that the Scum Watcher would target Clem to find the protector...and Paul targeted Clem and found (I assume) the protector! Hello????

Stop fishing, for goodness' sake! Why should we reveal Paul's result

Mmmmm Hmmmmmmm. I see. So you randomly chose Scum Watcher because hosts try new things. Yet at the same time you say you weren't even aware that it would be different from the norm. I'm not saying it's an outlandish role. I'm saying it's an uncanny coincidence that there's never (or rarely) been one on EB and you randomly chose it to postulate what Clem could do with claiming her role. Then the Scummiest player in the game claimed Watcher and did what you said the Scum Watcher would do.

Hmmm....this does seem too coincidental to be true...

because you've only played Scum twice )

He's played Scum at least four times...

[Bob]

Bock

By fighting against Clem and Dragonfire's claims he seems to be trying to prevent the formation of a town block. If we want to overcome Blacktron we really need to form a town block. If there's 6-7 town, 4-5 scum, and a Serial Killer, it's a very real possibility we could lose the game tonight. Fighting the town block is a rather scummy move, if you ask me.

In a game of eighteen players, I don't think there would be five scum and a serial killer. That's one third of non-town aligned players. I'm also not convinced in the slightest that the town block is in good hands whatsoever, especially with scummy Paul. So, yes, that's why I'm not too pleased about this new "town block".

I'm torn between Stig, 4 of 2, and Paul. Stig's whole code system is completely nonsensical and I think I can only grasp part of the code system. The fact that he went out and revealed to other players just who had the code seems to defeat the purpose of the code system a bit. Question:

I sent reminder posts to:

Nathan informing him that Seamus and Vasques got the code.

4 of 2 informing her that Seamus and Bock got the code.

Diamond Dodd informing him that Bock and Vasques got the code.

When did you send these reminder messages to these players? Was it during the night action cycle? Since Vasquez turned up dead, is it possible that Diamond Dodd and/or Nathan are scum?

Nope, but since pretty much every single game here the host has tried SOMETHING new, I don't restrict my thinking to only the normal. I've also only been scum a couple times, so I'm honestly not that familiar with the "normal" scum team setup. Just noticed that my sig doesn't state side on a bunch of the games, but it's only been 2 or 3 games I've been scum IIRC. And it's not like it's that outlandish of a role. Heck, Mafascum wiki declares watcher to be normal on either alignment. Not just townie.

To my knowledge, there has never been a role called the "scum watcher" in the history of mafia on this site.¹ There's been a scum tracker. Why would you even go onto Mafiascum wiki to look and see if there was a possible role called scum watcher? Is it because you knew beforehand that Paul was given the role of scum watcher and you wanted to go and check and make sure it's a legitimate role so you could mention the wiki in your defense?

(Source: I've been in a lot of them)

I don't care what Clem and Minga say about Paul, I'm still suspicious of him. The fact that Minga is defending him so vehemently is equally suspicious, considering it's entirely possible that he's a scummy liar and it seems like she's just trusting him implicitly. I don't like it. So, Paul says this:

I'm wary of you because, and that's very little to go on, because I watched you on day one and no one targeted you. Now this, to me, is the weirdest thing EVER.

Why would no one target you, not even a tracker, not a cop, not a blocker; no one!

This to me is the biggest red flag and truly leads me to believe you may be scum hence my vote for you.

Because Seamus wasn't targeted, it means he's scum? Considering that every single player in this game doesn't have a power role, a lot of people weren't targeted on Night One. Are they all scum too? Then for no reason you come out and claim your role. Nobody forced your hand, you didn't have to reveal this information. I really want to vote for Paul, but despite the fact that he's scummy as all hell, there is a slim chance he may actually be town. So, I will:

Vote: 4 of 2 (mostlytechnic)

Something smells rotten on this space station, and I think it's you.

Paul's definitely a watcher, the question is which alignment is he?

Hey, quick question. How do you know that Paul is "definitely" a watcher and that he's not lying? Do you know for certain that someone targeted Clem and that's why you know for sure? Perhaps one of your scum friends?

[mostlytechnic]

You're saying two things and proving my point. 1. You aren't aware of the EB standard. 2. You thought of Watcher because hosts like to try new things. But, being unaware that Scum Watcher isn't common on EB would explain why you would use Scum Watcher as the example without knowing it would later cause your team trouble and directly implicate your Watcher.

No, you're misquoting me. I'm saying YOU shouldn't be shocked at the idea of a scum watcher because hosts like to try new things. I thought of scum watcher because it makes sense (as evidenced by it normal by mafiascum standards) and didn't know that apparently it violates some unwritten EB mafia rule to have.

[Hinckley]

Stop fishing, for goodness' sake! Why should we reveal Paul's result

Go screw, Minga. I'm not asking for anything. Get over yourself.

[mostlytechnic]

To my knowledge, there has never been a role called the "scum watcher" in the history of mafia on this site.¹ There's been a scum tracker. Why would you even go onto Mafiascum wiki to look and see if there was a possible role called scum watcher? Is it because you knew beforehand that Paul was given the role of scum watcher and you wanted to go and check and make sure it's a legitimate role so you could mention the wiki in your defense?

I didn't look on mafiasscum until people questioned why I said scum watcher. I said it because the role makes logical sense. There's town and scum blockers. There's town and scum killers. Etc. So I didn't think anything would be odd in mentioning a scum watcher doing something logical for a scum watcher to do. When suddenly me saying "scum watcher" became a big deal, I looked on the wiki.

[Hinckley]

To my knowledge, there has never been a role called the "scum watcher" in the history of mafia on this site.¹ There's been a scum tracker. Why would you even go onto Mafiascum wiki to look and see if there was a possible role called scum watcher? Is it because you knew beforehand that Paul was given the role of scum watcher and you wanted to go and check and make sure it's a legitimate role so you could mention the wiki in your defense?

I know it's long but I think it's important for people to read all of this post.

[Dannylonglegs]

Alright, My lovelies, here's

.

Vote Update:

4 of 2 (mostlytechnic): 2 votes (TinyPiesRUs, Bob)

Bock Pathos (Bob): 1 vote (RangeroftheForest)

'Rip' Sewer (Captain Nemo): 1 vote (mediumsnowman)

Zipzop Beetlejuice (Sir Stig): 1 vote (mostlytechnic)

Non-voting: 7 (Lind Whisperer, CallmePie, Dragonfire, Piratedave84, Captain Nemo, Hinckley, Sir Stig)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. You have about 11 hours till the day ends. Make it count.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Dannylonglegs

[Hinckley]

Okay, this is weird. Someone's definitely lying here, or else Zipzop has been feeding different information to Seamus and 4-of-2.

When did you send these reminder messages to these players? Was it during the night action cycle? Since Vasquez turned up dead, is it possible that Diamond Dodd and/or Nathan are scum?

I hate to even consider going into the logic–hole that is anything to do with ZipZop but these are good questions. Minga, ZipZop has answered that question already. I asked him why he suspected me when I didn't know Vazquez's name and was the one that alerted him 4 of 2 was contacting me about the code and then he retracted his suspicions. But Bock makes a good point. Why doesn't ZipZop suspect the ones he did tell Vazquez's name to?

I have trouble seeing ZipZop as Scum because he went to the trouble of concocting this insane code and then the tracker was killed. But, what I've finally reconciled in my head is that a lot of people were suspicious of Laura, so it doesn't necessarily follow that Scum killed Laura. If ZipZop is Scum, it's possible that:

1. He was advised to contact me.

2. I advised him to make a code.

3. He did. And sent it to six people.

4. The tracker dies.

5. He focuses on the code and Vazquez for some reason, illogically concluded (forcing the conclusion?) that I somehow knew Vazquez had 1/6 of the code.

6. And what does he mean when he says the code was meant to start a Town block?

WHoa, whoa! No. No no no no no no no no. I'm almost went down the rabbit hole. No "One side will make you larger and the other side will make you smaller" for me. No thank you. I'll just sit in the center of the mushroom with the caterpillar. :blank_expression:

[Dragonfire]

In a game of eighteen players, I don't think there would be five scum and a serial killer. That's one third of non-town aligned players.

Since Vasquez turned up dead, is it possible that Diamond Dodd and/or Nathan are scum?

Minga has already made both of these points. Repeating others' points - noted.

I don't care what Clem and Minga say about Paul, I'm still suspicious of him. The fact that Minga is defending him so vehemently is equally suspicious, considering it's entirely possible that he's a scummy liar and it seems like she's just trusting him implicitly. I don't like it.

Minga was defending him before he outed because obviously, Minga didn't want a claimed power role to be lynched.

Because Seamus wasn't targeted, it means he's scum? Considering that every single player in this game doesn't have a power role, a lot of people weren't targeted on Night One. Are they all scum too?

To be honest, that is a pretty terrible point (from Paul, not you).

Then for no reason you come out and claim your role. Nobody forced your hand, you didn't have to reveal this information.

He was very adamant in PM about revealing his role. He wanted to do it ever since Seamus said "I know where my vote is going today."

Hey, quick question. How do you know that Paul is "definitely" a watcher and that he's not lying? Do you know for certain that someone targeted Clem and that's why you know for sure? Perhaps one of your scum friends?

Fishing. Ping. And for your information, yes, Minga knows for certain that someone targeted Clem.

[Hinckley]

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. You have about 11 hours till the day ends. Make it count.

Where's the list of non–voters? So I can pick on them...

He was very adamant in PM about revealing his role. He wanted to do it ever since Seamus said "I know where my vote is going today."

To me, that's a Scum tell. He wants everyone to hear he's claimed Watcher so he won't get lynched. Town Perspective: keep your PR secret. Scum Perspective: Let everyone know I have a power role so I won't get lynched and I'm not afraid of being Scum–killed...

I know because I've made the mistake myself...

[Dannylonglegs]

Where's the list of non–voters? So I can pick on them...

It shall be done, My lord.

[mostlytechnic]

Minga has played three games with you in which you were scum, so there's those for starters.

Since you (and Seamus) are so caught up in my scum experience, I went through and updated my sig. I've been scum 3 times. And no, not 4 because when this is over I'll be changing that line to say I played as 4 of 2, TOWNIE.

[Dragonfire]

I have trouble seeing ZipZop as Scum because he went to the trouble of concocting this insane code and then the tracker was killed. But, what I've finally reconciled in my head is that a lot of people were suspicious of Laura, so it doesn't necessarily follow that Scum killed Laura.

Yeah, to Minga he seems like a really really eager townie who wanted so much to help but ended up confusing the heck out of everyone. And besides, Laura makes the most sense as a vig kill anyway.

The one thing that makes Minga doubt Zipzop is this: He called out 4-of-2, Bock and Seamus for "colluding" together behind the scenes, when he freakin' told 4-of-2 that Bock and Seamus had parts of the code....

[mostlytechnic]

I also added my roles to make the info complete

The one thing that makes Minga doubt Zipzop is this: He called out 4-of-2, Bock and Seamus for "colluding" together behind the scenes, when he freakin' told 4-of-2 that Bock and Seamus had parts of the code....

Thank you for someone besides me finally getting that point!

[Dannylonglegs]

Update updated.

[Hinckley]

The one thing that makes Minga doubt Zipzop is this: He called out 4-of-2, Bock and Seamus for "colluding" together behind the scenes, when he freakin' told 4-of-2 that Bock and Seamus had parts of the code....

I'm glad to hear this echoed from someone else because it was confounding trying to figure out what the hell ZipZop was thinking. But again, go back and check what he said when I asked him that. He seems to have dropped that as a suspicion. I think... Who freaking knows with Commander Cuckoo–Pants?

when this is over I'll be changing that line to say I played as 4 of 2, TOWNIE.

Oh, what a relief! Now we all know you're a Townie.

[mostlytechnic]

Update updated.

Hey, no editing. Penalty votes for you.

[Dannylonglegs]

Hey, no editing. Penalty votes for you.

I am immune to Penalty Votes... but not night kills.

It's my role. I gave it to myself.

It's now officially visible in the discussion thread.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Dannylonglegs

[Dragonfire]

Since you (and Seamus) are so caught up in my scum experience, I went through and updated my sig. I've been scum 3 times. And no, not 4 because when this is over I'll be changing that line to say I played as 4 of 2, TOWNIE.

Saying you're town doesn't change anything. And I looked over your past games and it appears you won one as scum when you replaced in for PPJB. It isn't in your signature. So that makes four.

[mostlytechnic]

Saying you're town doesn't change anything. And I looked over your past games and it appears you won one as scum when you replaced in for PPJB. It isn't in your signature. So that makes four.

What game was that? It was apparently so minor I forgot all about it!

I'm also not sure why there HAS to be a scum among the Clem bandwagoners. I don't believe the scum would all vote for wen, but that doesn't necessarily mean some had to have voted for Clem. I find your vote on an inactive to be a scummier move than a Clem vote, personally.

Since you've questioned my logic here... I went back through old games. I checked each day 1 final vote tally and grabbed any where there were two decent wagons (I ignored games that were near unanimous votes). I then checked who was town vs scum. Here's what I found going all the way back to Ragnarok Now Redux. Scum are in red.

Party Lines Mafia

town Carol Nottingham (Calanon) - 10 (Brickeloden, Speedy, TPRU, jluck, Piratedave, Walter Kovacs, Stickfig, Lego Spy, mostlytechnic, Adam)

scum Addie Tremain (adventurer1) - 4 (Bob, Goliath, badboytje88, Scaevola)

town Bryant Laughlin (Brickelodeon) - 1 (adventurer1)

Red Menace

town Monty Thornton (mostlytechnic): 4 (Bob, Peanuts, JimBee, adventurer1)

town Jerry Bergeron (JimBee): 7 (PirateDave84, CallMePie, Endgame, mostlytechnic, Speedy, Mencot, jluckhaupt)

Excalibur TNG

town Willie Spencer (Tohst): 1 ( getdamonkey)

town Adam Powers (jluckhaupt): 3 (Comrade Commander, Calanon, vampyre78)

town Melinda Fox (Xenophobic Monoxide): 4 (Tohst, Lego Spy, TheLazyChicken, jluckhaupt)

scum Greg Kennedy (Lego Spy): 2 (Dragonfire, Xenophobic Monoxide)

town Emily Goodwin (Dragonfire): 1 (lego3364)

town Emma Lane (vampyre78): 1 (adventurer1)

Ragnarok Now Redux

town Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84): 12 votes (Captain Nemo, jamesn, Cornelius Murdock, Hinckley, CallMePie, Rick, Fugazi, LegoDad, Waterbrick Down, Palathadric, Captain Genaro, Darkdragon)

town Sigrid (Sisco): 8 votes (Piratedave84, Bob, def, Scubacarrot, fhomess, Trumpetking, WhiteFang, Mencot)

Non-voters: 2 (Sisco, Kristel)

And you know what that shows? The scum never all vote together! If there's more than 1 wagon, they're on both of them. Therefore, I conclude there are scum on the Clem wagon from our day 1.

[Hinckley]

*snip*

And you know what that shows? The scum never all vote together! If there's more than 1 wagon, they're on both of them. Therefore, I conclude there are scum on the Clem wagon from our day 1.

Look! The roulette wheel hasn't hit red for the last twenty hits! Bet it all on red!

[CMP]

So, I will Vote: 4 of 2 (mostlytechnic).

Why? Well I'll tell you why NOT: because of this tracker claim PM code cipher project thing. I'll fess up and say I cannot nor have I been following any of it outside of the fact that I got a part of it. I didn't look into it because it was supposedly only to be used in the case of Zipzop's death. Frankly I think this is about as constructive as wondering about Celemtine's claim yesterday...as in, it doesn't get us anywhere and discussion about it consumes the first 24 hours of the day. We need to not let that happen again because both today's lynch, like yesterday's, is close to failing. The lynch is the only tool to find scum that EVERY townie can rely on, so let's try and actually use it??

Anyway...

Overall, after calculating the statistics and outcomes, I'm leaning truth on Clem. I just don't see the upside being worth it for the scum to make such a bold claim. However, I'm not confident in that enough (because I don't trust the scum to work with the same level of logic as I, since they're inferior beings [like the rest of you]) to make any claim to her (vanilla or PR, doesn't matter here). I'd recommend others not claim as well. The normal way to build a town block is for the investigator to clear a couple people and start talking to them. It works well and is the safest, most logical way to proceed.

This is part of the post in which 4 of 2 mentioned scum watcher. Seamus has dismantled that argument more than I'd be able to, so I want to look at something else.

4 of 2 would like to do some analysis of Clementine's focus on Seamus potentially being the godfather, since it's been such a big part of the discussion for 2 days....

Speaking of conjecture on topics that are useless to the majority of townies, I had initially thought 4 of 2 spent a lot of Day Two arguing with Major Dave, who as we all know was townie now. But it turns out most of that was actually just laying out, many, MANY, times, why she thought Clementine's claim was reasonable despite the fact that she was acting very strangely.

TL;DR: I don't think backup would be a terrible choice of fake role for a scum to claim.

Except in this post for some reason when she think it's possible.

And I NEVER SAID TO LIE. In fact, in the post you quoted I specifically said NOT to lie. I meant that IF people were going to claim (again, I say not to!) then some of our legitimate vanillas would need to claim vanilla to Clem as well, so that when both PRs and vanillas tell OTHER PEOPLE that they claimed to clem it doesn't give away who the PRs are.

But again, this is a bad idea that I do not recommend. I was originally making a hypothetical and apparently made the mistake of trying to clarify. Neither time did I want people to do it. Personally I'm leaning town on Clem but not enough to claim anything (PR, pranks, vanilla, anything!) to her. Ditto for you - I'm leaning town on you, but I'm not claiming anything to you either.

But then she's back to town again.

How is that NOT taking a position on her? No, I'm not 100% on her, but how could I be? And if I was leaning scum, I'd throw a vote down. I'm not, so I didn't vote for her.

Maybe I'll vote for her, maybe I won't today. There's still plenty of time for me to build a case on someone.

And then she states that she's not leaning scum, and then in the very same post says that maybe she'll vote for Clem. What? You don't vote for someone you're leaning town on.

Vote: Bock Pathos (bob) because you're either scum or really lazy town and therefore not helping us. And as a bonus, if you're gone it'd be nice because you're a pain to search the day threads for because you've hosted a ton of games and so your name is in everyone's sigs over and over and over. So I don't want to ever have to search for your posts again.

Okay, she lays out some reasons to vote for Bock.

Not defending Harriet at all, I have no knowledge of her allegiances. My complaint was that your case on her was weak. But you explained yourself well and logically, so I'll

Unvote: Bock (bob)

I'm still not sure on this line building on Claw. I'll go re-read it's posts and see before I make a final decision on joining in or not.

Then unvotes, and waits to see if the bandwagon starts rolling any further. (I didn't quote that post, but I'll spoil it for you: she jumps on the wagon RIGHT before Claw gets a majority votes.)

Frankly, all this fighting has put Seamus, Clem, and Minga as all slightly town-leaning in my book. See my rules of mafia - fights are almost always between townies. Scum avoid them. So, a slight town-read.

Meanwhile, she's leaning town on some people. She likes using this phrase a lot. "Leaning town." We're not looking for town, 4 of 2. We're looking for scum.

And then there's...this, which is just weird.

I finally remember what pinged me from the vote analysis. I re-read Minga's summary:

6 votes for Clementine Lister (Lind Whisperer): (Chromeknight, Sir Stig, Xenophobic Monoxide, Lazychicken, Lady K, Dragonfire

That's the day 1 votes. Is there any chance that NO scum would have been on the Clem wagon, unless Clem IS scum? Nope. So out of Clem, Zipzop, and Minga, there is a scum.

All three have been subjects of massive discussion. I still lean town on Clem because fake-claiming backup seems too audacious. And Minga seems to be actually helpful in trying to assemble a town block AND keep people quiet. So:

Vote: Zipzop Beetlejuice (Sir Stig)

After all this talking of the dumb code today, after all the suspicions have been thrown around, this is your basis for voting? "One of these three people HAVE to be scum, end of discussion"?? I know scum do like to split their votes a lot, but this just seems...bizarre, particularly in light of all the other suspicions flying around today.

[Dannylonglegs]

Alright, My lovelies, here're your voteywoties.

Vote Update:

4 of 2 (mostlytechnic): 3 votes (TinyPiesRUs, Bob, CallmePie)

Bock Pathos (Bob): 1 vote (RangeroftheForest)

'Rip' Sewer (Captain Nemo): 1 vote (mediumsnowman)

Zipzop Beetlejuice (Sir Stig): 1 vote (mostlytechnic)

Non-voting: 6 (Lind Whisperer, Dragonfire, Piratedave84, Captain Nemo, Hinckley, Sir Stig)

With 12 players, a majority of 7 is required to lynch. You have about 9.5 hours till the day ends. Make it count.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Dannylonglegs