Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Dealing with Space Computer problems, so I'm very late at replying to this. I'm so surprised. Not that Seamus should be surprised or anything. I'm remember the name but not the strategy--I've not played for the better part of the year. Although I think it's ridiculous to meta-game me of of someone else's strategy because we are both bold and confident apparently. For the record, I'm confident in myself, because I know I'm town. It's an example of the strategy I'm suspicious that you are applying, not saying you act like Scubacarrot, therefore you're Scum. I'll counter this--so if I said I though he was a detriment and scummy, you would have nothing to say, right? You said he was scummy, and that justifies your vote on him, while my deterrent vote does not? Well, the fact is we were both wrong--suggesting that you were more 'in the right' because you said he was scummy does not change the fact we both wrongly voted out an townie. The point is not that I'm better than you, the point is that your explanation of your vote, covering all the bases, wanting to lynch him even if he's Town, is Scummy. You're pre–justifying lynching a Townie. Again, I'm not Scuba. And yes, it was late. And in addition, I will give you this point--I totally just ducked up those names/roles. Again, nobody said you were and megablocking them up could be due to your being stuck in Scum Perspective. It's a really odd megabluck–up to make. Suspect as in the adjective definition. I.e. The scum would now constantly think Clementine is suspect over other townies. Hopefully, after this second clarification, you will understand words have more than one meaning. Alternatively, you could learn to read complete sentences, so you could discover I clarified my meaning of 'suspect' later in the exact same sentence. Suspect (adjective) 1. not to be relied on or trusted; possibly dangerous or false. "a suspect package was found on the platform" synonyms: suspicious, dubious, doubtful, untrustworthy; More Also, yes scum have suspicions, suggesting they don't is ridiculous. Scum know who the town are, but they're still suspicious of who the PRs are. Fluffing up your post with a dictionary definition, nice. Scum are hunting for the PRs but the one word of "dangerous" in your definition (because PRs aren't "false") is a bit of a stretch. The bigger concern isn't this individual point, it's that all of the points together equal suspicious behavior. I'm sorry, I forgot that only the people who talk the least and who are in the middle ground are sure scum. Talking the most is an obvious sign of Townieness. Clearly, lynching and scrutinizing those people has thus far yielded the best results. And Seamus, if you reach the end of this sentence, you should understand that was sarcasm. We lynched two people who were posting a lot, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to say. So, here's another thing middle–ground Scum are getting away with, as demonstrated above: answering each point has a tendency to calm the concerns of the suspicious when it's not each individual behavior that makes them Scummy, it's the fact that they had several examples of defendable behaviors to answer to. So while his answers to my suspicions may do a lot to quell suspicion, just remember it was a lot of point he had to respond to and it's the sum of the parts that equals the Scumminess. I'm in this minority. We've lost too many townies already to start hiding information. If we lynch wrong again, and there's enough kills we could be done for. So, you agree that the Scum know who the Town are but they still call the potential PRs, suspect. Now it makes sense to me why you would use that word. If I were discussing it on the Scum writeboard, I'd use the word "suspects" too. If we lynch wrong, we're done. Unless there's only 4 Scum... Still, that's a very narrow margin. I agree, Paul has been extremely Scummy. But townies are scummy sometimes. You just have to take my word for it - or ignore it, if that's what suits you. No. NO no no. Veteran Townies aren't that Scummy. There is no reason to be that blatantly Scummy if you're Town! What the hell? Minga doubts there would be five Scum and a Serial Killer in a game of only 19 players, since that would mean that almost a third of players were non-Town, making it an unfairly balanced game. Four scum and a Serial Killer, Minga can see. I thought of this as I was typing above. It makes me feel a little better. Minga really doesn't know. Zipzop could be town and has just badly messed things up trying to be helpful. It's a bit too attention-seeking to be a Scum move - surely if he was Scum a better play would have been to not reveal the tracker's identity and just kill them last night? Outing that you were the tracker's sole contact yesterday and then killing them is a stupid Scum move because it puts a lot of scrutiny on the contact (ie. Zipzop). I have thought of this as well, but the point is not that ZipZop's Actions are completely bonkers, as I keep saying something is off. Does anybody see anything in the behavior from 4 of 2 and Bock?
Dragonfire Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 I have thought of this as well, but the point is not that ZipZop's Actions are completely bonkers, as I keep saying something is off. Does anybody see anything in the behavior from 4 of 2 and Bock? To be honest, Minga has got them both as null-scum, and wouldn't be opposed to lynching either of them.
Bob Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Okay, Minga will make you a little deal. If the confirmed person is being lynched today, Minga will reveal them. But the way things are now, he or she is not even under any suspicion whatsoever, so what is the point in revealing him/her? Why not just reveal him/her now? Are you planning on revealing this player when they're in trouble because they're scum? I can't believe so few other people think this is weird. I'll say it again, another time. The scum know who the townies are because they're the people that aren't on their team. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. How is withholding the name of this person detrimental to the town? It doesn't matter if nobody is looking at this person as a suspect. It will nevertheless reduce the amount of people that aren't cleared. So far you, and presumably your investigator, are the only two people that know this, besides your mystery confirmed townie. To whoever this person is, reveal yourself. Don't listen to Minga, she's being dumb. To be honest, Minga has got them both as null-scum, and wouldn't be opposed to lynching either of them.
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Did you mean numbskulls? Why not just reveal him/her now? Are you planning on revealing this player when they're in trouble because they're scum? I can't believe so few other people think this is weird. I'll say it again, another time. The scum know who the townies are because they're the people that aren't on their team. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. How is withholding the name of this person detrimental to the town? It doesn't matter if nobody is looking at this person as a suspect. It will nevertheless reduce the amount of people that aren't cleared. So far you, and presumably your investigator, are the only two people that know this, besides your mystery confirmed townie. To whoever this person is, reveal yourself. Don't listen to Minga, she's being dumb. Don't listen to Bock. Bock, stop it. You've played enough to know that keeping this info from the Scum can help the Town. If we announce cleared Townies, we can't read what people are trying to do if they are Scum trying to get a Townie lynched. We also give the Scum a target to remove the work we've accomplished. They don't want verified Townies to sit around and be trusted. The verified Townie can keep the ids of the PRs that the Town block is compiling and keep it safe with the Scum not knowing who they are. And if the verified Townie is a PR then they really shouldn't be revealed. So, as a veteran player and host, you should've been able to come up with that on your own.
CMP Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 It will nevertheless reduce the amount of people that aren't cleared. Which is good, but making sure the scum know who is cleared is bad, isn't it? ....okay, fine, Seamus. Steal my words out from under me why don't you.
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Which is good, but making sure the scum know who is cleared is bad, isn't it? ....okay, fine, Seamus. Steal my words out from under me why don't you. As usual, you put it more concisely.
Dragonfire Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 What is null–Scum? Null-Scum is when Minga doesn't have a strong read on someone, but thinks they might be scum. Kind of like a small scumread. It will nevertheless reduce the amount of people that aren't cleared. No, it will increase the number of Scum kill targets. Behind the scenes, we've cleared about five townies and no, we're not going to reveal them all because some of them are power roles The verified Townie can keep the ids of the PRs that the Town block is compiling and keep it safe with the Scum not knowing who they are. And if the verified Townie is a PR then they really shouldn't be revealed. Exactly. (By the way, the verified Townie claimed vanilla). Well, Minga's assuming any smart vigilante would do this anyway, but just to make it clear, Vigilante, please stay at home tonight. There is a real risk of us losing the game tonight if you kill a townie. Besides, if we do indeed have a town blocker or protector, it might be a smart idea for them to get in contact with someone whom they trust, just in order to prevent fake claims and Night Action confusion
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 You should say which roles you've found in case there are counterclaims. This town block that is forming today is making me nervous because I now know that Clem and Paul are heavily involved in it.
Dragonfire Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 You should say which roles you've found in case there are counterclaims. Okay. If anyone wishes to counterclaim investigator, protector, blocker, watcher, tracker, bulletproof townie or vigilante, please contact me or someone you trust. Minga's not going to come out and say which roles have claimed because that would just be a road map for scum. So she's only stating the more common roles.
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 We haven't had an investigator counter–claim but we only have Lind's word for if we still have one and seven Townies are dead. Minga, I know you were cleared by the investigator but that doesn't mean you or the investigator are telling the truth. This is a huge burden for us on Day Three. I know you're doing a ton of work, but we need to scrutinize everything. I'm not sure null–Scum is enough to lynch on. Okay. If anyone wishes to counterclaim investigator, protector, blocker, watcher, tracker, bulletproof townie or vigilante, please contact me or someone you trust. Minga's not going to come out and say which roles have claimed because that would just be a road map for scum. So she's only stating the more common roles. I understand the idea of that, but now you're fishing for roles. I guess you've already asked everyone to claim but now you could potentially be tricking people into it. This game is giving me a megablocking headache.
Bob Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 No, it will increase the number of Scum kill targets. Behind the scenes, we've cleared about five townies and no, we're not going to reveal them all because some of them are power roles "We've and we're." Great, I'm assuming that means you, Clem, and probably Paul since you're so adamant against lynching him. Fantastic.
Dragonfire Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 We haven't had an investigator counter–claim but we only have Lind's word for if we still have one and seven Townies are dead. Minga, I know you were cleared by the investigator but that doesn't mean you or the investigator are telling the truth. This is a huge burden for us on Day Three. I know you're doing a ton of work, but we need to scrutinize everything. If the investigator is Scum, then we're all screwed because Minga basically told him/her everything... I'm not sure null–Scum is enough to lynch on. Minga has no solid suspicions. Null-Scum is the most she's got to go on. I understand the idea of that, but now you're fishing for roles. I guess you've already asked everyone to claim but now you could potentially be tricking people into it. So you'd rather have Minga reveal which claims she's got than just generally ask people to claim? That's more like fishing to me. "We've and we're." Great, I'm assuming that means you, Clem, and probably Paul since you're so adamant against lynching him. Fantastic. Try again
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 If the investigator is Scum, then we're all screwed because Minga basically told him/her everything... Why??? Just because he/she came to you and said "You're Town! Yay! Wheeeee! "? So you'd rather have Minga reveal which claims she's got than just generally ask people to claim? That's more like fishing to me. God help us, our fate is in your hands it seems. If a vigilante claims to you, you say "A vigilante claimed to me" to see if there's a counterclaim. That person won't come out and say "Hey! I'm the real vigilante" in thread, but would hopefully find a mouthpiece to announce it for them. If you say "I want to know the blocker, protector, bulletproof, investigator, tracker, watcher, etc..." That is the very definition of fishing.
Bob Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 So you'd rather have Minga reveal which claims she's got than just generally ask people to claim? That's more like fishing to me. No, it's not fishing. Putting out a general trawl for night actions that may or may not even be in the game allows the scum to claim a role like that. Try again Try again what? He said he contacted both you and Clem to "clear the air". Then you said twice that it would be a bad idea to lynch him. Sorry, that leads me to assume that the three of you are speaking or colluding behind the scenes
Dragonfire Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Why??? Just because he/she came to you and said "You're Town! Yay! Wheeeee! "? In hindsight that was a bad idea. But Minga does trust them. If a vigilante claims to you, you say "A vigilante claimed to me" to see if there's a counterclaim. That person won't come out and say "Hey! I'm the real vigilante" in thread, but would hopefully find a mouthpiece to announce it for them. If you say "I want to know the blocker, protector, bulletproof, investigator, tracker, watcher, etc..." That is the very definition of fishing. Okay. Ignore Minga's previous post. Minga has received protector, watcher and investigator claims. Could anyone counterclaiming please ask a mouthpiece to counterclaim in-thread? Try again what? He said he contacted both you and Clem to "clear the air". Then you said twice that it would be a bad idea to lynch him. Sorry, that leads me to assume that the three of you are speaking or colluding behind the scenes We are speaking behind the scenes. But we're not collectively clearing people. It's me who's trying to compile all the information and find scum.
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 What makes me nervous, Minga, is that you are vouching for Paul and he's gone and hidden back down his hole, never to answer the valid suspicions of his Scummy, Scummy, horribly Scummy behavior. Now he has you to hide behind. So, you PMed me to lay off of him and when I asked you how he could possibly be verified considering how Scummy, Scummy, horribly Scummy he is you say "If Clem is Town, the Paul has to be." That makes me nervous. Sick to my stomach nervous because Clementine has been under a lot of scrutiny and most of the dead voted for her or strongly accused her.
Lind Whisperer Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Suspect as in the adjective definition. I.e. The scum would now constantly think Clementine is suspect over other townies. I need time to go over everything, but just for reference, the 'suspect' in "Clementine is suspect" is the complement to the linking verb 'is,' not an adjective.
Ranger of the Forest Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 We can debate the fine points of Minga and Clem’s claims, and by extension Paul’s, but unless they’re all lying then it won’t do any good. I think we can all generally agree at this point that lynching them today is not an option. We’ve already lost seven townies, and if they are telling the truth then we shouldn’t risk losing more townies by lynching them. They’re not in the clear by any means, but I think we should start figuring out who we actually want to lynch. I suggest everyone name their top three suspicions, and why they suspect them, so we can come to some sort of general consensus. I’ll give mine. Bock: You haven’t said a lot in general, but today you seem very invested in making sure that Minga’s claim gets discredited. We don’t know if it’s true, but you seem awful persistent in saying that she’s a lying scummo. What do you want us to do, lynch the person who is trying to organize a town block? A lot of your posts have pinged me, and the fact that you echo a lot of what Seamus said doesn’t make you look any better. Seamus: I keep getting extremely mixed reads off of you. At first I leaned more towards scum, then I leaned more towards town, and now I don’t know what to think. You’ve made some good points about Paul and Zipzop and Bock, but at first it genuinely felt like you were trying to prevent a town block from forming. Maybe you’re just a very cautious townie, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. But I still feel uneasy about you, even though I agree that Clem and ming a and Paul aren’t in the clear. 4 of 2: You’ve been slow to taking sides everyday now, and while I normally think that’s a good thing, your hesitancy makes you seem more like scum waiting to see which way the wind blows before placing a vote. I don’t have a strong read on you, but you’ve pinged me several times, both today and yesterday. I don’t know if any of these people are actually scum or not, but these are a few of the people I’ve been most suspicious of today. So for now I’m going to Vote: Bock Pathos (Bob) Out of all the suspects I’ve listed, I find you the most scummy looking. This is by no means my final vote, and I will change it if we need to get a lynch or if I find a better suspect, but for now I think I’m making the right choice in voting for you.
Lind Whisperer Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 We'll be careful. However, Paul is definitely a bad lynch today. Paul has indeed been acting strangely, but I'm with Minga - he's not a good lynch choice for today.
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Hannah, you're officially a Paul–apologist. Twice you've soft–defended him today. But I'll play along. Paul Because of all of the reasons I've said but even moreso now that he refuses, for two days, to answer my suspicions and is now hiding behind Minga's skirt. He won't answer my suspicions because he can't answer. If he's Town, he's the worst, absolute worst at this game. No Townie should ever ever appear so terribly Scummy. People, he's admitted to being Scummy, not Town–like and to sheeping the vote. Worst. Townie. Ever. Sucks. Sorry, I usually don't get so insulting but it's just terrible terrible Town behavior if that is somehow the case. 4 of 2 I think he's a very weird link in the chain of what happened with ZipZop's code. PMing me that he was in the chain seems like a "Hey, look at me, I'm trusted!" and then he suggested we try to piece together the code even though ZipZop was still alive. Then he hasn't really offered much in trying to piece the whole ZipZop mess together or answered to what he was thinking and what was said to him and how he knew about Bock and... He's just weird. Clementine I wouldn't vote for Clem today but I'd certainly investigate her if I had that ability. So much hinges around her claim and all the suspicion she was drawing before that. Why were people suspicious of her in the first place? Anyway, now that she seems to be the reason Minga is defending Paul, I'd really like to know for myself what her real deal is. I'm absolutely lost. Then I suppose after that is Rip, Bock, Nathan... Diamond has seemed on the level, but he's definitely under the radar. I suspect you all. Paul has indeed been acting strangely, but I'm with Minga - he's not a good lynch choice for today. Oh, we know, Clementine. Apparently, you're the reason Minga believes he's Town. That's incredibly interesting...
Lind Whisperer Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Hannah, you're officially a Paul–apologist. Twice you've soft–defended him today.I'm not a Paul-apologist, it's like Minga said. It's a case where if I'm town, then Paul must be as well. And I know I'm town, and so all the (non-thread)evidence suggests that, scummy as he has acted, Paul is town also. 4 of 2I think he's a very weird link in the chain of what happened with ZipZop's code. PMing me that he was in the chain seems like a "Hey, look at me, I'm trusted!" and then he suggested we try to piece together the code even though ZipZop was still alive. Then he hasn't really offered much in trying to piece the whole ZipZop mess together or answered to what he was thinking and what was said to him and how he knew about Bock and... He's just weird. He's pinged me since day one, when he used quite a bit of flattery in his PM to me, when I hinted I knew that the investigator wasn't dead.Hannah Oh. Wrong character name...
Hinckley Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 I'm not a Paul-apologist, it's like Minga said. It's a case where if I'm town, then Paul must be as well. And I know I'm town, and so all the (non-thread)evidence suggests that, scummy as he has acted, Paul is town also. But if it's a case where he's been investigated as Town, then I would say he's the best candidate, out of all of the ones mentioned, for Godfather. Minga, Clem, Paul if you guys are building a Town block and have cleared five Townies, shouldn't you be leading the best case based on those verifications and results? If you're our Town block, what seems to you guys to be the best lynch for the day?
Piratedave84 Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Seamus; i came here earlier to PM because there were important matters that needed discussing in private which by far superseded the need to address your misplaced concerns. i'm not hiding, I have other matters to attend in private and that's where I'm focusing my attention for now. But if it's a case where he's been investigated as Town, then I would say he's the best candidate, out of all of the ones mentioned, for Godfather. Minga, Clem, Paul if you guys are building a Town block and have cleared five Townies, shouldn't you be leading the best case based on those verifications and results? If you're our Town block, what seems to you guys to be the best lynch for the day? One of the people involved in the code-sharing business; one of you is lying or at least is misrepresenting the truth. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how the codes worked and who actually received a piece of the code
Lind Whisperer Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Seamus; i came here earlier to PM because there were important matters that needed discussing in private which by far superseded the need to address your misplaced concerns.No, his concerns are fully valid.And they are being validated through your strange refusal to answer any of them. No, his concerns are fully valid.(Fully valid as in fully valid to anyone that doesn't know why Minga and I are vouching for you, so...large percentage of town.)
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