Ragnarök Now 3: Day Seven

[Piratedave84]

I dropped by to read this real quick and fully agree that I deserve scrutiny as I've been WWWWAAAYYYY less active than usual and as I would have liked. But I assure you that I am town. At this point we probably only have one scum to deal with (2 if they successfully recruited, as some have suggested) and we could end this by lynching scum today.

Back to family matters, sorry for my absence

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 10 players remaining, 6 votes are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

Hmm so no scum kill then? I guess the blocker must have got the right man.

This statement pings me though I can't exactly pinpoint why. Maybe because he is only coming up with one possibility for lack of Scum kill and not commenting on the fact that there were no kills at all. Trying even to lead us to believe it was the person who was blocked who we should lynch, like we mistakingly did yesterday.

[Tariq j]

This statement pings me though I can't exactly pinpoint why. Maybe because he is only coming up with one possibility for lack of Scum kill and not commenting on the fact that there were no kills at all. Trying even to lead us to believe it was the person who was blocked who we should lynch, like we mistakingly did yesterday.

You're overthinking this, I can assure you I was merely suggesting a possibility, I was not trying to lead the town down any false path. I admit, some of my posts on here are scummy looking, but I am town.

[Hinckley]

You're overthinking this, I can assure you I was merely suggesting a possibility, I was not trying to lead the town down any false path. I admit, some of my posts on here are scummy looking, but I am town.

Why would that be the first possibility you would suggest when you are literally the first person to speak after we all find out that when we followed that possibility yesterday, we lynched a Townie?

And if you're Town why are you saying so many Scummy things? What is your Townie motivation for these Scummy statements?

[Tariq j]

Why would that be the first possibility you would suggest when you are literally the first person to speak after we all find out that when we followed that possibility yesterday, we lynched a Townie?

And if you're Town why are you saying so many Scummy things? What is your Townie motivation for these Scummy statements?

Because not every day is the same, okay, so yesterday we lynched the person who had been blocked - Ragnvald, and he turned up town. That doesn't mean to say that if we do the same they will turn up town. I'm not suggesting we do that, and going to back to my first post, I was merely suggesting a reason as to what could have happened.

[Chromeknight]

Do the scum Roleblockers inherit the kill anyway? Mafia Scum wiki doesn't imply or directly say the Roleblocker can inherit the kill, so you may be right there. This means there could have been a scum roleblock and a protector last night which were both successful.

It pings bad because he follows it up with this. No one, in six days of playing has ever suggested the scum have a roleblocker, nor have any town actions gone missing such that we need to posit one to explain things. But he blithely states the scum do have one.

If there is only a scum blocker left who can't kill, there'd be no second kill to need protecting from. The logic is half assed and betrays too much inside knowledge.

vote: Tarr (TariqJ)

[Tariq j]

It pings bad because he follows it up with this. No one, in six days of playing has ever suggested the scum have a roleblocker, nor have any town actions gone missing such that we need to posit one to explain things. But he blithely states the scum do have one.

If there is only a scum blocker left who can't kill, there'd be no second kill to need protecting from. The logic is half assed and betrays too much inside knowledge.

vote: Tarr (TariqJ)

Yes, but I was only working off Toki's logic, I didn't say I agreed with it. It doesn't betray any inside knowledge as it was only a possibility.

[Hinckley]

Yes, but I was only working off Toki's logic, I didn't say I agreed with it. It doesn't betray any inside knowledge as it was only a possibility.

His logic is that it would be very "puzzling" if there was only a roleblocker left on the Scum team, which I took to mean he doesn't find it likely. You seem to run with the idea–the very idea which, he is suggesting, doesn't make sense.

[Hinckley]

I started the day thinking Petr or Jafri would make the best lynch. The jury is still out on both of them, especially Mr. Half–Troll, but my suspicion is swinging towards Tariq with his admittedly Scummy posts and what could be an attempt to lead us to lynch the person we blocked. I know who we blocked and I know they are not Scum, so there.

Now, to wrap my mind around this idea that they have been trying to recruit this traitor, I looked at who we have lost and the possibility of them being the traitor:

1. Brand–unlucky to be the un–recruited traitor twice in a year, but it could happen. Lynched before he was able to contact the Scum.

2. Patrekr–still a weird Scum kill, in my eyes. I am still of the mind that they could've had a day role cop and took Patrekr out because of what his role was. It's happened before but either way, maybe they targeted him for other reason and accidentally took out their own traitor.

3. Dagstyrr–said he was too sick to participate and missed Jarl's confession and plea for a traitor. He could've been their traitor, killed by the vig before he had a chance to get healthy and pay attention to what was happening.

4. Tarben–in the weirdest kill of the game, Tarben contacted the Scum pretending to be the traitor and they killed him. Maybe they submitted the wrong Action that night? Or maybe they were just tired of people coming and claiming to them.

5. Munud–obsessed with the idea of the traitor. Obsessed with it.

The fact that they are still looking for the traitor, assuming that is why we're not seeing them kill, indicates to me that they're looking for a player who is already gone or they have a blatant misunderstanding of the traitor aspect of the Scum team.

Or, we are over–complicating things and the Scum really did try to kill the protected player twice and Mist got blocked trying to kill. That's a possibility. But Tarr's suggesting right off the bat today that the Scum killer was blocked leads me back to believing they are still looking for a traitor and that is why they haven't killed for the last couple of nights. Or he/she. I think there's one, trying to find the traitor to survive longer.

I don't think the Scum was incredibly coy. Dar told me there really was a traitor before being lynched and some anonymous Blabber–Mouth Scum told me that my misleading comments wasted their kill. I think they tried to recruit (or recall or whatever) me that night. And I think there is only one traitor to recall. If that is the case, I would assume that those who have claimed roles to me, the investigator, the protector, the blocker, the vig and the tracker are all people who can't be recruited. Leaving us with a small pool to lynch. And since the Scum have stopped killing, we're still pretty solid.

[Adam]

Yes, but I was only working off Toki's logic, I didn't say I agreed with it. It doesn't betray any inside knowledge as it was only a possibility.

What's funny is that I don't even think Cranebeinn's argument was good. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to speculate that the scum might have a role blocker. It's an incredibly common role for a scum team. Furthermore, how were you to know that town actions hadn't gone missing? However, instead of making all of these points to your defense, you say this. You agree with your accuser, then try to spin it to your defense by pointing out a minor contradiction - which is an incredibly scummy kind of post.

As it stands, your post reminds me of that time Herman Cain said, "There will probably be others," when he was accused of sexual harassment. It's a statement that looks like a defense at first, then you think about it, and you're like, "Wait, what?"

Now, to wrap my mind around this idea that they have been trying to recruit this traitor, I looked at who we have lost and the possibility of them being the traitor:

I might be misunderstanding the traitor role, but isn't it kind of moot to speculate over whether or not a dead townie was the traitor? If the traitor was already dead, wouldn't he or she have shown up as scum, because the traitor role is scum-aligned and will normally be investigated as scum, as well? With that in mind, wouldn't it make more sense to look at the dead scum?

[Hinckley]

I might be misunderstanding the traitor role, but isn't it kind of moot to speculate over whether or not a dead townie was the traitor? If the traitor was already dead, wouldn't he or she have shown up as scum, because the traitor role is scum-aligned and will normally be investigated as scum, as well? With that in mind, wouldn't it make more sense to look at the dead scum?

It amused me.

Specifically that they're still looking for a traitor, when if there is a traitor they've had ample opportunity to contact them. How could there still be a traitor that didn't take an opportunity to contact the Scum. Unless the traitor doesn't know he's a traitor...which I think would be unprecedented.

If there's a traitor, why would the Scum still be skipping their kill to recall a traitor when the likelihood is that the traitor is dead. Maybe I'm helping the Scum too much if they can't figure that for themselves.

[TrumpetKing]

What's funny is that I don't even think Cranebeinn's argument was good. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to speculate that the scum might have a role blocker. It's an incredibly common role for a scum team. Furthermore, how were you to know that town actions hadn't gone missing? However, instead of making all of these points to your defense, you say this. You agree with your accuser, then try to spin it to your defense by pointing out a minor contradiction - which is an incredibly scummy kind of post.

I share very similar sentiments. While Cranebeinn's argument was rather flat, the fact that you suddenly start working off of my ideas rather quickly after I accuse you is alarming, especially given my word seems to be the one trusted least, seeing how long I've been suspected.

I think scum voting patterns and Tarr's exceptionally weird behavior today (though if I remember correctly, he's been brought up multiple times in the past) make him a solid choice for the lynch today, and he will get my vote.

Vote: Tarr Egg-Chaser (Tariq j)

And by "you", I meant Tarr, not Agnar.

[Tariq j]

I fail to see how scum voting patterns come into this, the fact I have been in the middle of the pack for voting is simply just down to unfortunate timings, I've come on here and half of the members have started voting already. And as for the two scum who voted for me, your guess is as good as mine. My behaviour hasn't been weird today at all, someone simply misinterpreted a statement I made at the beginning of the thread as a plot to the town off course. And (one last point) why am I a "solid" choice for a lynch, Brand, Lord Duvors and Ragnvald all seemed to be "solid" choices for lynches and look what they all turned out to be.

Anyway, Jafri, Canute, I see you've both nicely sunken into the woodwork, let everyone else do the talking and at the last second just agree with everyone else and vote for the bandwagon.

[CMP]

Anyway, Jafri, Canute, I see you've both nicely sunken into the woodwork, let everyone else do the talking and at the last second just agree with everyone else and vote for the bandwagon.

That fact that I have been near the end of the pack for voting is simply just down to unfortunate timings, I've come on here and most of the members have started voting already...

You're being voted for, now is not the time to try and deflecting suspicion, you've had over 24 hours to bring up any suspicions you may have had.

[Adam]

And (one last point) why am I a "solid" choice for a lynch, Brand, Lord Duvors and Ragnvald all seemed to be "solid" choices for lynches and look what they all turned out to be.

Dear Odin, guys, he's right. All this time we've been focusing on the scummy players, when we should've been doing the opposite. We should lynch the people who are most likely to be town! Starting with the PRs!

[Tariq j]

@Canute

Fair enough, I guess the point that I was trying to make was there are alot of players here who just let everyone else do the talking thus drawing the attention away from themselves, and then just make a fluffy, agreeing with the crowd sort of post when voting.

[Hinckley]

Tire can't be scum. If the scum did believe I was the trader and tried to convert me on night three then they would not have believed me to try to convert me because I told them that tar was the vigilante.

[TrumpetKing]

I fail to see how scum voting patterns come into this, the fact I have been in the middle of the pack for voting is simply just down to unfortunate timings, I've come on here and half of the members have started voting already. And as for the two scum who voted for me, your guess is as good as mine. My behaviour hasn't been weird today at all, someone simply misinterpreted a statement I made at the beginning of the thread as a plot to the town off course. And (one last point) why am I a "solid" choice for a lynch, Brand, Lord Duvors and Ragnvald all seemed to be "solid" choices for lynches and look what they all turned out to be.

Anyway, Jafri, Canute, I see you've both nicely sunken into the woodwork, let everyone else do the talking and at the last second just agree with everyone else and vote for the bandwagon.

How wouldn't scum voting patterns come into it if they directly involve you? As Pudding-Head said yesterday, my votes often fall in the middle too. It's a perfectly valid method of analysis. And your behavior has been quite weird, not only today, but in the past, though today it's been especially clear. As for solid choices, can't the same be said about Mist, Dar, and Jarl? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they were scum too. Everybody we have lynched has been the best, most "solid" choice. Three of them have been town, sure, but three of them have been scum too, so I don't quite know what point you're trying to make by saying that.

Tire can't be scum. If the scum did believe I was the trader and tried to convert me on night three then they would not have believed me to try to convert me because I told them that tar was the vigilante.

Are you alright? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say, other than Tarr can't be scum.

[Hinckley]

Argggh. I'm driving

[Hinckley]

I wanted to give the Scum a good idea that I was the traitor so I offered up Tariq as the vigilante. He had been blocked and there were only two kills so he might be the Serial Killer, I thought. Telling them it was someone I thought was Scummy to manipulate them into killing that person would've been stupid because they only would've believed it if the person I mentioned was actually Town. Tariq was the only person I could think of that was potentially neither Scum nor Town. But, what's the problem with that plan? It was public knowledge that Tariq was blocked the night I claimed the vig killed Lambi.

So, if (and it's a big if as I'm only assuming) the Scum did try to recall me that night thinking I was the traitor then they wouldn't have done so if I had told them one of their own was the vig. Although it was still an obvious lie, they could've taken longer to figure that out since they had to remember that it was reported Tarr was blocked.

Does that make sense? I don't megablocking know any more. Maybe they did try to kill the protected player twice and Mist was the killer the night she was blocked.

Night Actions have at least vaguely verified everyone except Jafri and Petr. I have tried to talk to them privately and am the least satisfied with Petr's responses. I don't know if this means anything. Maybe we can't go by what the Scum told me on the writeboard at all...but from what we've seen, that's giving them a ton of credit. But, I don't know. They could be trying to make us think these things or their really is/was a traitor and something I said made them try to recall me or someone else on the night I spoke to them on the anonymous writeboard. Ugh. We seemed to have glided through four dead Scum and now finding the next one is getting tricky.

Is there any possibly someone could be a traitor and a Town PR? The answer is no, right? Right? We converted a vig to Scum in the first Ragnarok.

[Piratedave84]

I wanted to give the Scum a good idea that I was the traitor so I offered up Tariq as the vigilante. He had been blocked and there were only two kills so he might be the Serial Killer, I thought. Telling them it was someone I thought was Scummy to manipulate them into killing that person would've been stupid because they only would've believed it if the person I mentioned was actually Town. Tariq was the only person I could think of that was potentially neither Scum nor Town. But, what's the problem with that plan? It was public knowledge that Tariq was blocked the night I claimed the vig killed Lambi.

So, if (and it's a big if as I'm only assuming) the Scum did try to recall me that night thinking I was the traitor then they wouldn't have done so if I had told them one of their own was the vig. Although it was still an obvious lie, they could've taken longer to figure that out since they had to remember that it was reported Tarr was blocked.

Does that make sense? I don't megablocking know any more. Maybe they did try to kill the protected player twice and Mist was the killer the night she was blocked.

Night Actions have at least vaguely verified everyone except Jafri and Petr. I have tried to talk to them privately and am the least satisfied with Petr's responses. I don't know if this means anything. Maybe we can't go by what the Scum told me on the writeboard at all...but from what we've seen, that's giving them a ton of credit. But, I don't know. They could be trying to make us think these things or their really is/was a traitor and something I said made them try to recall me or someone else on the night I spoke to them on the anonymous writeboard. Ugh. We seemed to have glided through four dead Scum and now finding the next one is getting tricky.

Is there any possibly someone could be a traitor and a Town PR? The answer is no, right? Right? We converted a vig to Scum in the first Ragnarok.

You must mean my non existent answer ...

Like I said to you, I have too many things going on and in retrospect I should have not signed up seeing I can barely find time to be here. I would like to survive the game although I don't deserve to based on my participation but if you need to lynch me to clear me, then go ahead.

Also based on your analysis, I will Vote: Tarr (Tariq j)

[Hinckley]

At this point, we have a solid Town block and none of us have been lost to the Scum team. If there are any roles to claim you should be claiming to me or Cranebeinn. If you have a role and haven't claimed before today, then that is suspect but now is definitely the time to start sorting everyone out.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Tarr Egg-Chaser (Tariq j): 3 votes (Chromeknight, TrumpetKing, Piratedave)

With 10 players remaining, 6 votes are required to lynch. 23.5 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]