Adamskii

Hello fellow train builders. I wanted to create a local railcar from my youth that no longer exists, but has many memories for me. The South Australian Railways (SAR) 400 class , also known as a Red Hen due to its prominent colour. A link to the Wiki on Redhens.. http://en.wikipedia..../Redhen_railcar I wonder what steps other builders go through when turning an idea into reality so instead of just posting the final pics, I though maybe it would be interesting to show the steps I take ( some I am sure will be backwards). SO firstly, I scour the internet for as many photographs of the model as possible - A solid reference library is a non negotiable. My local train museum happens to be the National one as well and will go back there in week or two, and take photo's and go for a ride on one of the working examples they have there! here is an example of the vehicle to be modelled. The next step for me is to identify sub assemblies within the model that lends itself to Lego construction. For example, what are the key character points for the vehicle? Do the bricks that best fit those characters come in the colors I will need? No point choosing to make something if there are no bricks in that color or shape to match. This idea has been mulling around for a year or two now so for some time I have tried to make myself aware of the colors and bricks that might be relevant. So some of the key elements for this project is the curved roof, the doors (recessed), windows (frame colour, 2 part glass). Each item has a matching Lego piece or can be constructed, In the Reddish Brown color that best matches the train. I don't have allot of reddish brown brick so Bricklink will be getting a visit. To create a shopping lis, firstly I need to make a plan / instruction. I use Microsoft Excel to create a very quick design, I adjust the x and y axis to roughly meet the ratio of the Lego brick. By filling out the cells with borders and colours, I can plan out the train carriage to as best as possible maximise the proportions of the vehicle being modelled. Here is a screen grab : I can get a pretty good idea of what type and how many bricks I need. I can also start to envision some of the design challenges. It is not a perfect method, it is however VERY quick, maybe a couple of hours. I wanted to double check my design before buying all those bricks, so did a mock up build in rainbow bricks just to validate scale/ proportions etc. I choose to model in 6 wide at the carriage deck - the standard Lego train scale, I leave the 7 and 8 wide to the serious enthusiasts. Here is my mock up. I worked out some issues with window scale, made a few attempts to represent some elements such as the wedges above the orange chevrons before settling on a modified plate, and the same with the lights, windows and even the heights of the doors. Now I go off to Bricklink with my shopping list. The last week has seen me spend alot of money. although some parcels are turning up so have been able to very roughly assemble to the front end (albeit with a rubbish mess of bricks of different quality) SO this is the next step - as the bricks turn up, grow the vehicle ! Once the upper deck is complete (all the Reddish Brown turns up!) I will go ahead and work out the undercarriage. That A whole different ball game. At this stage, as bricks arrive, I will also probably find flaws in design, or elements that don't look right and that will put me a loop of ordering new parts for alternative designs and so on. I expect this to last a few weeks. This vehicle will be motorised and have an extremely limited interior. I hope you enjoyed my design process so far. Any comments appreciated. Adam

So its ok to discuss Lepin now? several months ago this topic was declared off limts and banned and locked up/relegated to off topic sub section.. Just checking if the rules have changed again.

Hi Folks, just put up some shelves to have somewhere to put the overflow of trains that just don't fit on the layout. Simple shelves with routed tracks (to save a few $$) creates much needed room on the boys layout and shunting yard. I was wondering how everyone else stores or displays their spare trains? The ones that are not on your layout but ready to go at a moments notice so to speak. Do you quarantine special collectors trains in non running displays ? Looking forward to some ideas as I am sure over time the collection will continue to outgrow the layout and the need for storage will get more serious. Regard Adam, http://

Does this set come with the iconic and pivotal harpoon and cable? I have not seen a spooling harpoon and cable in the pictures. ? ALso when did UCS become minifig scale? Not sure about the inclusion of the minifigs. (that lends itself to play more than collection). Nice looking set though! Would like to see a UCS speeder bike (noyt minifig scale)

Some interesting statistics here. I hope they include Australia in the Asia region when bringing these prices down :) https://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/news-room/2016/november/jiaxing-factory-grand-opening/ Posted from official Lego website news. Adam

The boss of the Chinese manufacturing Lego plant cannot tell the difference between Lego and Clone minifigs, Oh my. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFPbVM-JnFw

I have not seen these parts before, what is going on with that brick on the bottom near the door (in light bluegray) the black lower edge ? ALso what are the green rounded stud/balls on the plant. I tried to find on box piece picture but no joy.

I went to Myer at tea tree plaza SA, asked for exactly what you said - all I got was blank stares and crickets. They sent me to the lay buy office, all I got was blank stares and crickets, They rang Adelaide store - no one knew a thing about ordering BB and all said have to wait until it comes back in. But this really makes me angry - why do I have to do all the leg work to buy something that will invariably be overpriced, sold exclusively with no competition to drive price? Lego is not making it easy to buy their high end products in bricks and mortar stores in Australia. If only there was an alternative Even if the ipad thing is true. Look at the hoops I have to jump through for a product that is almost a year released?

I'm still waiting for Brick Bank to be available here in Australia to buy in a shop. Maybe If I am lucky the shop with exclusive distribution rights will get a few in for Christmas. Maybe next Christmas I will get my hands on Assembly square. If the prices you guys quote are correct, and going by historical mark up for Australian distribution, this set will be about $350. (GBHQ was about $400 here, Opera house was $400). SO if I get one online and pay the $50 it costs to get one of these, I will be paying same as a GBHQ... PLease Lego, Don't have exclusive distributors of these sets, without demanding they have them in stock or at the least maintain an custome order policy! (the store in question does not even have BB listed in their online catalogue - so there is NO way to buy a new one in shop in Australia) Grumble Grumble. I like AS, I think some people will MOD the middle and right building to become an inverted corner..

Hello was wondering if the new rules mean that duplication of Official Lego stickers from sets is now banned from discussion. They wholly fit into the category of knock offs etc as defined by the clause. I suggest that people buying unofficial sets may wish to apply Lego stickers on them to be more convincing (think Emerald Night). Or as the legitimate stickers are usually pricey (see Bricklink, Emerald night, BNSF, Star wars etc), knock off stickers and their presence encourages and facilitates legitimising bootleg brands. If someone is buying bootlegs because their cheap, their probably going to not be discouraged buying bootleg stickers either. Custom stickers would fall under the clause of orecognised clone brands. Some clarification please. tks

How is this thread not locked? IF it's ok to do comparisons between Lego Lepin and anyone else (does not breech the new 50:50 guidelines) this thread is a test case I guess for setting precedence.

Lego official website fair play statement The link above is very interesting reading. Very. I would suggest everyone who had some interest in the the locked threads have a read at how Lego Legal works. The bits about Copyright are fascinating, especially the scanning and transmission of that material. Also I never noticed that this website didn't display any Lego Logo's, now I understand why ! Anyways some pertinent information there. IS the Train tracks (large radius etc) considered knock off? And also is talk about personal 3d printing of Lego parts off limits as well ? Adam <edit> Here is a great summary of Lego's Legal copyright activities for the last 20 years, PDF has links to many cases. Interesting Lego does not win all the time, and allot of cases are settled out of court. The Chinese case is particularly intersting, as is Lego's interpretation of how the minifig is protected. I am amazed anything that looks even remotely like a minifig is not slayed by their Legal team. Lego protecting its trademark

If I buy a Lego kit, doesn't that imply I have been given access to that IP? I know Lego haven't made anyone sign a EULA, and so have really let their product be used in any way the customer so deam's fit.If your answer to that question is no, then keep reading my dilemma. So once owning the kit (and implied legally acquired access to the IP used to create it - they gave me an instruction book with the kit) if I duplicate it using my existing Lego pieces, have I not only employed the toy as it was designed to be used, but used the IP to recreate a Lego product that they will never get paid for? Isn't that the point of Lego ? anything can be duplicated using the same bricks? So for example If I bought the Lego fire station, and used my spare parts to build a second one the same, then didn't I prevent that hardworking designer from gaining some kind of recognition for his IP rights? So taking that a step further I decide to sell my duplicate kit, because I need the money more than a second fire station, I am now a criminal engaging in illegal copyright activity, because, the Bottom Line is, I would have used someone else's intellectual property to make money, without obtaining a license to do so. (Better not buy any instructions on Bricklink anytime soon- Peeron will be history soon, sharing IP from others, file sharing.. sounds familiar) I'M not a Lawyer, I can only imagine the arguments they employ to counter Lego's suit. I cant argue your point, but I doubt the court case will be over after Lego's lawyers read your Bottom line out to the presiding Chinese Judge. And if the court rules it quite legal, wow consider those implications. Certainly will ruin any argument that it is illegal. Once a case goes to court, I always assumed there were two sides to a story and a third impartial party ruled on it. No one was engaged in illegal activity until after the ruling. And if it is illegal, why is Lego not issuing cease and dissist orders globally recognized. Nike does it, Apple is very good it, Lego has resources those companies would be comparable too.. Nope cannot argue against your point. But then Lego doesn't seem to be making much of an effort in arguing for it either.

Why is Lepin being discussed here and not in the community forum? Moderators can we have a consensus of where Lepin can be discussed?

SO they have brought out another Modular, I will not post a pic, or a link, But I have seen the box art and pictures on one of their official pages. This time it is the natural history museum corner modular MOC. I think this was an Ideas offereing ? That's 2 now including STarbucks.

Lego is a building system that demands replication. They publish books on replicating their ideas. Kids all over the world try to build things they have seen others build because that what Lego is, Unlike a plastic model plane where you have to paint it etc and no two could ever be considered identical, Lego solves that as anyone can copy an idea provided they have the bricks. That is the principle Lego is founded on. You do not have to buy a Lego set to build that model. I can buy all the Lego in the world from Bricklink and never buy a Brick from Lego, and still go and build every kit Lego ever made. According to some, I would have stolen the IP of Lego designers. If I onsell those assembled bricks as complete Lego sets, using Lego pictures of those sets, apparently I am doing the wrong thing. I think allot of AFOL would have assembled sets from bricklink in one way or another (Millenium Falcon for example - So many threads on this site dedicated to just that - No argument about using Lego design/IP to build those sets?) and if they sell them have they not profited from Lego IP ? So what sets Lepin apart from an average AFOL? 2 things I can see, the sheer magnitude of their operation - but where do you decide Joe average doing 3 or sets a year versus Chinese corporation as being illegal? If it is a principle you argue, then scale should not form part of the argument, Like saying someone was a little bit stolen from, you either were or weren't. That's the problem with principle, it has to be black and white, not making exceptions. The other thing that sets Lepin apart, is they have decided to not buy the bricks and assemble the sets, but manufacture them themselves. This was not a problem before apparently with Clone brands - because the quality was basically rubbish. The quality of Lepin however is remarkable, and could very easily be incorporated into Lego set MOC's and never be realised by the audience they were looking at a clone. (how long before this raises it head at Lego conventions?) Now the patent has expired on Lego bricks, So copying them is probably not illegal. No one bothered when it was Enlighten or Sluban or whoever the clone brands were as they were not in the same quality league. Suddenly people are taking notice of a very cheap alternative to Lego that is getting dangerosly close in the quality department. What if they start making Lego style bricks that is superior? But again IF the copying of the brick is not illegal then that sure cannot form part of a reason to avoid them ? (or censor them). Lego does not have a serious competitor in the marketplace. They are a monopoly. That is not a healthy thing for the consumer. Having brands like Mega Blox is good but their range is very small by comparison. Lepin have directly challenged that monopoly and we should see how serious Lego take that challenge by their reply. So far the lawsuit set for a year from now seams like a whole lot less of a response than what some would expected.

Censoring discussion of clone brands is something I find rather distressing. It is unfortunate I suppose that educated and reasoned discussion on this matter is so easily derailed by passion for the hobby and brand loyalty. It is one of the few times that the discussion is more about the person and their circumstances/opinion, than about the bricks. The worry I have is censoring clones is like putting head in the sand and pretending it isnt there if we can't see it. Lego Is the Number 1 toy company in the world. We should trust that they have this situation well under control. Surely they recognise the risk of clone brands, as someone said earlier, when Enlighten was tinkering some years back it was really just a novelty and well no serious notice was taken. But what Lepin is doing is simply breathtaking in it's audacity of testing international copyright law. It is almost a massive slap in the face throw down - Lepin is spoiling for a fight. Lego has to be ready to counter the arguements that validate Clone brands (cost, accesibility and so on). Alas is Lego chooses to pretend the problem is not there, the problem of clone brands giving some people what Lego won't, then Lego won't remain number 1 for long. The only thing stopping that at the moment is Lepin hasn't marketed itself as an alternative - the average person just does not know it exists - yet. Lego has shown time and again it can be steadfast in its self belief and stay on course despite almost failing once. I hope it can counter the clones. I also worry how you censor clone brands but not the aftermarket ones / 3d printed ones. I am certain if Lepin made it's own modular's and designs, no one would be so offended at the "theft" of intellectual property. But some executive is sitting there at Lepin HQ saying we have these moulds, they have the designs, why shouldn't we give it a crack. How do they get the designs so quick I also wonder? The Lepin version of the Minecraft village and fortress were available online at the same time or before the Lego one was in the stores? Who is giving them this information? Doesn't Lego manufacture in China now? But what if I source all the bricks needed to build a Cafe Corner, and sell it on Ebay. I am not Lego or an Authorised reseller, Have I not used their intellectual property (design) to assemble bricks of any origin (including clone bricks - or how long before I can 3d print bricks of equal quality) to make profit? Lepin does just that but on an offensively big scale. How would a censor differentiate between the two? I see in Australia there are Facebook clubs dedicated to group purchases of modulars in weekly installments. Would they fall under the umbrella of "censorship" for using the Lego intellectual property and then profiteering from it? I would argue that a clone category be made in the forums, where they can be moderated, and all clone discussion can be redirected and moderated. When the discussion is rubbishing the clones it seems to be ok anywhere, but lately the discussion has been in support and suddenly we have an issue? I note that I brought up in the Star wars forum the Millenium Falcon clone and was shut down and removed, having caused some kind of offence, yet the Nemerald Night discussion is still rolling along in the train forums. Could the site be consistent in its moderation? Linking to clone pages, ok I admit that may be seen as communicating an illegal operation and therefore moderated, but surely it has to be accepted that there will be 2 sides to any discussion and if the site is mature enough to handle pro clone discussion I would say it empowers it and shows it is more than capable of dealing with it in a responsible manner. Censoring discussion is admitting there is a clone problem. One which cannot be discussed when it is not allowed.

Lepin Now releasing retired Technic kits. How long before classic space ? Thats a sacred cow. Adam

Went to Myer website - oops its not available. Good thing they have the exclusive so now I cannot buy it in Australia. Not even listed as out of stock, Clearly Lego doesn't want me to buy this kit. They have numerous toy stores, independents and 3 other department chains that they could put it in, But choose to use a distributor that doesn't want to carry it. Buying form Lego direct online sort of encourages them to play this game. I am sure there are numerous ones on ebay at nicely inflated prices being sold by people who never intended to build the kit and ran out of space but rather take advantage of the geographically isolated.

There it is - only way to buy it is online. Myers has exclusively wrapped this one up and unless I can hold in my hands first before coughing up RRP, I will let it pass and take the less risky option and buy the clone version. The other year when the Horizon Express was released, The LEgo shop in Adelaide (toy Corner) which exclusively stocks Lego, had an order of 20 or 40 or something units, but Myers did a deal with Lego to have exclusive rights to distribute and Lego pulled their stock delivery from the independant. That summer Myers had exclusive Horizon Express and no price competition. The more expensive kits, especially the Modulars are continually a problem in the AUstralian Market, The kits are very hard to come by unless you stand in line at midnight sales and run to the right aisle and find one during a Xmas toy sale, and then they have no competitive prices due to the exclusive deals they do (pretty much all the big stuff over $150). Even then we have to wait sometimes 6 - 10 months after the European release to see the kits here in Australia! The exception being Wall E which was released here before USA. I wish Lego would fix up its distribution channels because while it is a good product, I just cannot get to hold one to buy it !

Can't buy a Brick Bank Modular here in Australia, still waiting for one to me made available in a shop. And you guys are talking up the next one. Wish Lego would stop doing deals with retailers for exclusive content, who won't actually carry enough of the item for it to be on the shelf, but choose to have the exclusive to stop other retailers having that item.

. What problem ? Seams everyone is happy except the aftermarket scalpers. The people who drive up prices to prohibitive levels that make the hobby exclusive, not inclusive. As new people come back to LEgo after their own dark years, they find that some awesome sets are no longer available that they might like to catch up on - Trains are an excellent example, as are modulars. There are not many Trains, the catalogue is shallow, and it is easy to quickly build up a desire for more, but If you want a BNSF or Emerald Night - you better have very deep pockets. NOT because Lego charges high prices, in fact their prices are quite reasonable, But no, it is the availability that is an issue. I Have spent thousands of dollars on Genuine Lego in the aftermarket domain. I have gilded the pockets of people who planned to take advantage of me knowing full well a sucker like me would come along soon enough who just had to have that train, or whatever. I can garauntee if the items were still available, I would buy the genuine thing at the RRP. Heck, I wish Lego had a mechanism to buy discontinued kits - I don't want the box, all I want is the parts - I would happily pay for a disorganised bag of parts not even sorted in plain brown box ! - just to get that Emerald Night for RRP, not $750 from a collector ! But Wait Hang on - someone has seen a void in the consumer market and decided to come to my rescue - Lepin. They will provide me all the parts, unsorted, in a plain box for less than half the Lego RRP delivered ! WHen I get it - I build it, put on a shelf in my collection and collects dust with the other overpriced kits. ALong comes AFOL friend who wont pick it as a clone - And that's the scary part. At some point the clone has matched the quality enough to masquerade as the genuine thing. If Lego would let me buy the real thing, I would pay. Happily. If a clone offers an identical passable alternative (availability) at an affordable price - Yes I will consider my options If that alternative is to pay an inflated priced by as much as 1000% the I can promise you the choice is pretty easy. I can see why clones rub a nerve in so many people, but what really rubs me is how closed minded people are to free markets and globalism. The "problem" is not Lego's, they have made their business decision, and are the number 1 toy maker in the world and are the most profitable - that pretty much proves their decision is right and doesn't need to change, who are we to tell them how to run their business, they are the best at what they do. Lepin et al, are happily making a product that will be consumed because there is a need. ANd if people want to bail on the hobby because of the attitudes of others, then I say good, one less collector to drive prices up of the genuine thing, one less collector to compete with for limited availability. The genie is out of the bottle, Clones are getting better and cheaper. Is it possible one day they will exceed Lego ? Why not ? I do not condone copying current catalogue items. They should stick to OOP kits.

I have 2 Clone Modulars bought on ALiexpress. Both arrived within 3 weeks. I did pay for stores using DHL as a postage offer though. I registered as a customer instead of a guest and now am accumulating frequent buyer points ( I have $8 already - small amount but nearly a Rei speeder). The quality by comparison is about 9 out of 10. out of 50 studs on a plate, 2 or 3 will have dimples. Any crystal parts will have an cloudiness, glass panes seem better, but bricks/plates are not so clear. All moving parts fit amazingly well, including turntables, hinge bricks, doors, with little slop. Clutch power is slightly more than Lego, It can be tight and your fingers can hurt after a large session of modular assembly. The stickers have amazingly good registration, and the stock paper is reasonably good quality. The shock of buying on Aliexpress is you don't get the box advertised - you get a cardboard cube box that has all the parts squeezed in tight. This is how its is assumed you will buy and if you want the box, you will pay ALLOT more and have to jump through hoops to get them to understand that. Hence the variable postage prices. As with Ebay, some of the products cost very little but have very high postage , when added together they nearly always balance out to being around the same price. For example, Green grocer Clone is with postage about $65 US, but some places selling for 35 plus 30 postage, while others are 65 with "Free" postage. The downside to that is postage damage - the base plates Lepin do are like normal plate thickness, not baseplate. One of my boxes the baseplate had a bent corner from postage mishandling, didn't matter I dumped it anyways, and used an old Lego base plate. It must be noted that the tile patterns fit very well on Lego baseplate, testament to fit and size compatibility. No gaps or tight fits. Comparing Lepin and Lego brick by brick - I could seriously tip all the bricks from the sets I bought into my normal Lego collection and it would be all but impossible to tell them apart, to extract them the only way to tell them apart would be to literally inspect each for the word Lego on the studs. The color match is extremely close. I do not collect minifigs as Such and don't loose sleep over them. However you do have to assemble them from scratch. Also anything that is a tool comes on a sprue that you have to break off. Upside is I have a dozens of Star Wars style Weapons left over from the Green Grocer Clone.. My clone Kits were bought for budget reasons, I would never afford a real Green Grocer or Town Hall. I bought them on ALiexpress delived to my door for $150 compared to maybe $1500 plus for the genuine thing. Now my Modular collection is complete. And I have had AFOL friends come look at my finished set and they have not picked up that it was 2 clones in the line. These are not play toys, they are shelf dust collectors. The only real issue I have with Lepin is 2 things. 1 - the instructions can be very hard to read - the colour of the bricks in the instructions can be hard to understand eg yellow, orange, flesh, sand, and grey, black, dk green can be confusing. However If you have built any star wars Lego kits you can have the same thing anyways. The other issue is missing parts. From Green Grocer clone, I was missing all the 6 x 1 plates (about 15) in light grey, the white window shutters, and 6 black ladder elements from the fire escape. I had all these in spares anyways so wasn't an issue, once again Lego and Lepin blended seamlessly. I did however have about 20 tile plates in 6x1, and 8 or so 8 x 1 tile plates left over along with a bunch of other bricks. The Town Hall clone, was not missing a single piece, and had a number of left overs. Even If I spend $20 on Bricklink to get a few spares, I am still about a thousand dollars better off than If I got the Lego one from an after market scalper. Lepin come in bags that are not numbered or aligned with any steps. Imaging doing the Lepin Super star destroyer like that. If you buy a Lepin kit be advised one of the reasons its cheap is it is a disorganized mess to get started! I have the "Nemerald Night" on the way, Another kit I could never afford, and now will fit nicely into my collection. If they sold the carriages on their own, well, imagine $25 a carriage. I Hope this adds to the conversation. I Don't plan on buying anything from Lepin that is in the current Lego catalogue. I collect Lego. But where I have missed something and the price has skyrocketed by the Lego investors, And a cheap viable alternative is available. then I will absolutely consider it. In Australia we miss out on allot of kits simply because they sell out very quick - and the shops do deals with Lego to have exclusive content - for example the Modulars are ONLY sold at 1 shop chain for the first 12 months as exclusive and they set the price accordingly. then they sell out in a heartbeat and hard to get becomes impossible. Shipping to Australia is very expensive often nearing $50 - $100 extra. Even If I want to buy Lego collectable kits, it isn't on the shelves to pick up and grab! It not just about money, but availability.

I brought up that <insert clone company name here> had copied the UCS Millennium falcon in the Star Wars forums and the thread was locked down and all links removed - don't talk about clone stuff - people get kinda biblical in their hate.. Sad. Adam