fred67

I think I'll be heading to the LEGO store today to capitalize on the P.A.B. promotion for March. I'll have to buy a LEGO Game, too, but I think I'll pick up an extra EN. I like mrblue's design (I've been liking all of them, actually, I really need to start working more with LDD or something, but my hat's off to you, mrblue), and I don't think black is terrible... it's just that sitting next to the EN car it may not look like they go together. If it were inexpensive enough for the black version, it might be better to simply replace the EN car with all mrblue or other MOCs, if you really need them to match. Me? I'm trying to make myself able to buy sets and just use parts, or take apart old sets... it's a terrible habit, I build sets and can't bring myself to take them apart. I have tens of thousands of spare pieces bought separately for building my own things (but even then I often just build LEGO sets with bought pieces). The EN will be a hard one, seeing as it's the engine that makes the EN so beautiful, not the car... so I'll be buying extra EN sets and only building the car! But then I'll have pieces for a green caboose and for modifying the tender for alternate power. It's a tough one for me! I want to say you guys are very inspirational, though.

Another nice one, mrblue. I think I like the first version better. I wish there was a way to have a smoother glass observation surround, but living within the confines of LEGO pieces, you did a great job.

Interesting... I'll have to keep an eye on this thread, as I was going to use the traditional "cookie cutter" method to make inclines when I eventually do a layout... whenever I move, anyway. Bruce makes a good point; perhaps you ought to see if you can modify the EN to see if you can get that sort of vertical flexibility.

The tape doesn't just stick? Or does the stainless tape not have a sticky backing?

I didn't even know about the Santa Fe cars when LEGO was selling them... that was around the time my LEGO train hobby was picking up. The only reason I even got the BNSF was because a LEGO store opened near me and they had it in there... they never had the Super Chief in the store. When bricklink still had auctions, I won the Super Chief... but then I had no cars, so I downloaded all the instructions from LEGO.com and started collecting the pieces on bricklink and P.A.B. at LEGO S@H. It took a while... and a lot of money... but I have these so far: And I'll probably be building another one by next weekend, I have the last few bits on order. The grey round slopes they used on the roof are too expensive, so I used black. Previously, to stay in gray, I made an alternative: Four of which made a whole roof; but that method made the roof one plate too high, but like mrblue's solution, it would have been possible to cap it off with tiles instead of plates, which might have been nice. However, mrblue, I applaud you... your versions of the cars are fantastic. If I make more, I'll definitely be incorporating some of your designs. As it is, I have to make changes in order to fit the inventory I have, but mrblue's design looks like the pieces would be easier to come by. EDIT: I have to laugh... I notice that my shelves are full of LEGO, the only place I have for the trains in on my desk.

This is a pretty obvious poll; who, as a consumer, is going to argue about having choice in the matter? I have a drawer full of both 9V and RC curved track. The only decent use I've seen for them is a MOC... I think it was a diner or some similar small structure, that used it for a cool wavy roof. Edit: LEGO will not sell these separately; it would require two more boxes on shelves and complicate the whole process. They don't really like trains anyway; and if they can get you to buy stuff you don't need for the stuff you do, they're not going to change without a really good reason. Your best bet is to figure out some creative use for those pieces.

Ahh... yes... I'd forgotten about looping a track back on itself. I don't know when I'd do this (being old school about model railroads), but I can see the appeal. Personally I would just avoid it.

Can someone who has done this comment on the longevity of the tape? I'd read one comment somewhere that it only lasted about 8 hours of run time, but really... that doesn't help. If you have a short track/long train it would get worn out faster than if you had a short train on a long track.

NOTE: This is all theory, as far as I know. If someone has already done this, I would love to hear about it. For the sake of clarity, I'm going to refer to three different kinds of motors: 9V - the traditional 9V/electrified rail motor. RC - the 9V battery operated motor that is similar in size and shape to the 9V motor. PF - an XL or M power functions motor. So, I'm one of these guys hanging on and beating a dead horse about the death of 9V. I'm not worried about the track, as I think the O-Scale track method (although I haven't tried it myself) solves that problem both for curves and straight sections of track - and also gives you the versatility of flexible track. The conductive metal (copper or silver) tape over plastic solution is interesting me but I have doubts about it's longevity. I also don't worry about powering the rails; although I'd love to stick with LEGO, you can probably use without problem a number of other speed regulators available from other companies (being sure to cap off at 9V). That leaves motors. The problem with the RC and PF motors is they seemingly need an on-board battery. Batteries are the whole reason I hate the idea of converting to PF, I simply don't want to deal with them, I don't want to stop my train to recharge my batteries, I want to be able to run them for hours at a time, and probably the most important issue - I want the flexibility of not having to design trains around the size of the battery packs, and I don't want to have to open up my trains just to change batteries. But what if you could use the RC or PF motors with power from the rails? I know this has been discussed before, although I seem to see more people wanting to power their 9V motor from a battery (the worst of both worlds, if you ask me). The only sticking point is you need some way to pick up the power from the rails. Some people are gutting burned out 9V motors, which is probably the best solution, but then you are still stuck with the fact that there is a dearth of 9V engines... especially dead ones, and I know I'm not going to destroy a working one. Moreover, I don't have that many to begin with. But let's assume you use this method. A recent Brick Journal article (that I've referenced in other posts) describes how to modify the connector on an 8886 conversion cable. Now, generally speaking, this conversion cable will allow you to control 9V motors using PF battery packs with either a switch or IR receiver, but it doesn't work the other way around (through in IR receiver). The article describes how to modify it to make it work... to power an IR receiver using a 9V source, be it an older battery pack or rails (which the article specifically mentions). So here is the setup... 1. Speed/Voltage Regulator to power the tracks. 2. *** Gutted 9V motor to pick up voltage, connects to 3. Modified conversion cable connector, connects to 4. IR Receiver, connects to 5. Either a PF motor, or an RC motor using an unmodified 8886 conversion cable. You would run the trains with the speed regulator turned all the way up (I would imagine). The train won't go until you use the remote, but the train is still getting full power. Advantages: - No batteries needed, no need to model around battery packs. - Remote control. - Non-motive functions get full power, even when train isn't moving... in other words, your lights remain on and bright even if the train is not moving. - Here's the kicker... here's the "real" advantage PF had over 9V... you can control MULTIPLE TRAINS on the SAME TRACK. - You can control OTHER PF functions you've added to your train (like a crane or operating doors). and, AND, if you DON'T WANT RC, you can eliminate the modified connector and IR receiver and connect your pick-ups (dead 9V) directly to an RC or PF motor. You then control the train with the speed regulator (but your other powered functions would be affected also... i.e. dim or no lights when the train is stopped). Disadvantages: - If you're using a dead 9V and an RC motor to actually move the train, you need to incorporate both bogeys into your design. - Dead 9V are not easy to come by. I'm really busy this week (and spending far too much time here, but it's stuck in my head and I can't concentrate on other things, if you can believe it... if you're truly addicted to LEGO like me, you'll know what I mean when you get an idea stuck in your head that you can't test for some time!). Hopefully either Saturday night or Sunday I can try to set something up, but I don't have any dead 9V and refuse to mess up one of the few working ones I have. *** I'm desperately trying to find a non-9V solution to picking up voltage from the rail. While I'm in the hobby shop picking up O-Gauge flex track, I will look into options, but I'm definitely open to ideas. EDIT: I want to make it clear that I KNOW people have used gutted 9V motors to power RC and PF motors, and I know it works... the idea here is to use that modified converter connector in order to make your 9V train gain the advantages of the PF system.

The rechargeable battery is also visible in the tender, just to be fair. It also seems somewhat useless to build the train using a PF motor (instead of adapting it to 9V) and not having an IR receiver and remote control. If you build it with the manual switch, when you turn it on it'll go full speed; when you turn it off (if you can catch it without messing up your train) it'll just stop... those are your two options without the remote - full speed and stop.

Wait... I reread the OP and now I'm confused. You're using the battery. You're using a 9V motor? Which 9V motor and which battery? There's the old 9V motor (the one that usually gets powered by the rails) and the new one that doesn't. Basically, to avoid confusion, the motors are: 9V (the traditional rail powered one), RC (the one that LOOKS similar to the 9V one, runs on 9V, but boy, it aint 9V), and PF. Are you trying to hook a square 9V battery to power either the 9V or RC motor and want to do it through the IR Receiver so you can control it remotely? Or are you trying to hook up an older 9V battery pack (typically a four wide box with 6AA batteries) to either one of these motors and want the IR Receiver between them?

It is cool; I like the idea of the acid blood hole in the floor (maybe surrounded by a few alien parts). Where'd the laptop come from? That's awesome.

What I would like to research is finding a way to pick up from the 9V metal rails (or the alternatives that are floating around) to power an RC or PF motor. There was some discussion (maybe here... but I read a few things on bricklink) about using a dead 9V motor as a pick-up for the PF or RC motors. Let's be clear on this... A dead 9V motor with metal wheels (as long as it's not seized) connects to an RC motor (8886, the one that looks a lot like the 9V motor and is, itself, also 9V) or a PF motor. The bonus is regulating the power and direction should have the same effect on each item; if you use a modified cable, you would also be able to control the train remotely (probably by keeping the power cranked up on the power pack) and inserting the IR receiver between the 9V motor and the other motor. That's the theory, but I've yet to hear if someone accomplished this. The method of modifying the cable was in a recent Brick Journal ***, which I'll dig up and peruse again to make sure I'm right. My problem is that the method requires a dead 9V motor... or to sacrifice a good working one (NO FREAKING WAY). I'm open to suggestions on an alternative method of picking up the voltage from the tracks. Metal brushes maybe, but metal wheels from something would be ideal. *** EDIT: Brick Journal Issue 7, Volume 2 - September/October last year. The article is called "Make a 'Legacy' 9V to Power Functions Adapter," and involves using an 8886 Extension wire (the kind with both kinds of connectors - old and PF), and modifying it to power PF devices (the images show an IR receiver) using an old 9V battery pack... BUT HE ALSO SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS "it's use in places where mains power was more suitable (train speed regulator)." Written by Rob Hendrix. So the only question is how to pick up power from the rails? Using this technique, you could indeed use an 8866 motor powered by rail BUT REMOTE CONTROLLED if you can pick up the current from the rails. I wouldn't even do that... I don't need the conversion, I'd just go from rails to the 8866 motor and control the train speed/direction with the regulator; but the benefit of this method is, if you use the remote, the way to do it is to fully power the rails... which means if you have any lights or other electronics on the train, they are FULLY POWERED... no more lights whose intensity is proportional to speed... they'd be nice and bright the whole time, without running out of battery.

This is a complete edit... I see what Tony is saying now, and the theory is right. Brick Journal Volume 2, Issue 7 (September/October 2009) has an article by Rob Hendrix of lifelites.com fame, on adapting the 8866 Extension Wire. That wire would allow you to operate 9V motors using PF battery boxes and the IR receiver, and that solves half the problem. The conversion of that wire allows a standard PF extension wire to run from a 9V source to power a PF device. That should solve the other half. So it goes: 1. Tradition 9V speed regulator, to 2. The converter, to 3. A PF extension wire, to 4. The IR Receiver, to 5. An unmodified 8866 extension wire, to 6. The train contacts wire, to 7. The rail.

Obviously you get more variety of parts on bricklink, but don't write off P.A.B. prices. There are many pieces I've looked for that ended up being, for a reasonable number (i.e. not a single piece, but when you want 20 or more), the same or cheaper on P.A.B., and it's guaranteed new. All I'm saying is to go ahead and check P.A.B. prices... surely you need to weigh in S&H and everything, but I've often ended up just ordering from P.A.B..

Hi, I'm Fred, I'm 43, and my story is that I barely remember having my own LEGO as a kid, but I remember playing at a friends house who had a lot more and a lot more interesting pieces than me. It was around '78/'79, and we were both big Star Wars fans and were making X-Wings and TIE Fighters more than 20 years before LEGO, but then that's the beauty of LEGO, I suppose. I had an HO set as a kid; my dad bought a 4x8 piece of plywood, and mom painted it green with a black road on it, and we mounted the trains on it and played with matchbox cars in the middle, but the train hobby didn't last very long. My dad is semi-retired, and on a visit about 13 years ago, I noticed he had an N-Scale set tucked away in his "grand-kid" closet. He said he'd been planning to make a little layout, but there it languished in the box, so I took it out and played with it for while. It was a steam engine, and didn't run very well, so while I was trying to "fix" it, I ended up breaking the engine from the tender (the tender had the pickups). So I went out to buy a replacement, and I ended up making a deal with him... I'd get him a duplicate set in HO (which he was preferring at the time) and I'd keep the one I broke (I bought a new engine). So... getting back to LEGO; I was living in an apartment and didn't have enough space to even really build an N-Scale layout, so I'd get out the set every so often and play with it, and got the bright idea to buy a bucket of LEGO to prototype things like over/unders and so forth. It didn't work, but I had fun with the LEGO... so I started buying some smaller sets for the interesting pieces. Then it happened: my mom gave me an AT-ST walker set (the one with Chewbacca). LEGO was still expensive for me, so I started collecting minis. I didn't even know about LEGO trains. I don't recall ever seeing 9V trains at Toys-R-Us, and if I did I guess I figured they were too expensive. In 1999 I moved into a house about a month after my son was born. In 2001 we had our second child; by that time, my son always wanted to play with the N-Scale set that had found it's way to a 2x4 table, but being a kid his idea of fun was to crank up the power until the train went flying off the track. I didn't get much time to build a layout. But then one year near Christmas, maybe 2001 or 2002, Sam's Club (a warehouse club in North America, for those who don't know) had a set for sale... the 4561 Railway Express. I thought it was fantastic... It wasn't "realistic," but it was a set I could play with my kids with. Now, I knew nothing about LEGO trains. Despite reading many model railroading magazines, I'd never seen an ad. LEGO Stores didn't exist (at least not near me), and I'd never been to LEGO.com, so I decided to get two so that I could get two motors and more track. So that's how it started... pretty slowly, really; we set it up for Christmas (I still don't have space for a large layout, so I only get to play with it periodically). As I discovered the LEGO Store and LEGO.com, I bought some extra track, a couple extra motors, and my "love" of playing with LEGO trains grew into somewhat of an addiction. As it stands now, I've got: (I like my high speed train with two sloping ends, but the picture doesn't go that way) (Got the SFSC on Bricklink, but built the cars from pieces, not exact). (x2) (x2) No images - 4708 Hogwart's Express, x2 No image - 4837 Mini Trains (built from parts, not the set, see below) I've also built my own open freight wagon, which was pretty easy, of course. I'm not very good at MOCs, but I like making what LEGO gives us a bit better: I like the minis, they're pretty fun, but it's also depressing as that's all the room I have to work with. I'm definitely working on MOCs; I've been trying to build my own Hogwart's Express that doesn't suck (pe668 - yours was VERY good). Sadly, many of my trains are in boxes, unbuilt; some are on display. I have no working layout, but usually set one up around Christmas time at least, and occasionally besides that. We're hoping to move soon (within the next year) and I'm hoping to have a lot more room for the LEGO hobby, including a lot more shelves and space for a fairly large layout. If I could say one thing... I'm really disappointed at LEGO abandoning 9V. I've invested a lot into it, and I'm really wondering why I shouldn't just go back to HO and sell the LEGO. I still like LEGO Castle and Star Wars (4/5/6). I've noticed people like Grunneger's track that might help keep 9V alive; I've also seen some other options (converting the new plastic track to conducting via copper tape); if there was a solution... maybe using O gauge and coming up with a way to make it work with LEGO (adapting some generic motor to LEGO), I'd be a lifetime fan, as no one can pull that out from under you like LEGO did with 9V (and 12V fans certainly have my sympathy, as well). EDIT: I need to add I saw Anthony Sava's post... I just bought his set of instructions on Bricklink and can't wait to get strarted... need to order some Big Ben wheels, though.

Market Street seems really weird... I wish I had one, but won't pay aftermarket prices for one. I have all the others, and they are all fantastic. If I had to pick one, I'd say I really like the classic look of the Green Grocer.... the windows and the semi-circular part that sticks out (don't know the architectural term for it) really make it interesting.

Well, yeah, if I want to buy 1 piece of track I can get it cheaper. When I'm buying other things, I always check; it's not a very good way to build up stock, though, when you add in shipping/handling. The motors, too... you can probably find one for less than $30, but the vast majority are listed for quite a bit more than that. When you factor in shipping and handling, unless you're buying a lot of other things at a store, it's not worth it. Agreed... I don't know if I prefer it, but it's not bad at all. I've build a lot of cars (Santa Fe cars) and had to make a few substitutions... the bricks they use for the roof, in particular (gray curved slopes = ridiculously expensive). I actually came up with three alternatives - two in gray using other types of curved slopes, but finally settled on the same piece in black. Here's one of the alternates (forgive me for going off topic, but it seems that alternatives to building the actual sets might really be on topic): Four sections like this (where the green is needs to be gray on the two ends) will make a complete roof. It makes the roof one plate width higher.

Hi, Carl. Might as well introduce myself too, since I made my first (probably controversial) post earlier today. I don't remember playing with my LEGO much as a kid. I remember having it, probably a bucket and maybe a set or two, but nothing specific. I used to play at my friends house, though, and he had a lot more variety of pieces than me. This would be around '78 or '79; he had a lot of plates so we could build X-wings; we were both big Star Wars fans. But after that, I didn't have any LEGO until around 1999. I was into model railroading, and bought a tub (coincidentally enough, a LEGO 25th anniversary tub) that I figured I could prototype structures with, like over/unders. That really didn't work too well, but I was back to playing with LEGO... started buying a few of the small sets to get the more interesting pieces (plates/hinges/wheels), but I never knew anything about LEGO trains until a few years later, when I bought my first set. Having a couple of small kids at that point, I figured it was better to share my hobby with them using LEGO instead of N-Scale, so I abandoned N-Scale and when full-tilt into LEGO trains. Being a Star Wars fan, I also started buying those sets. Being a Lord of the Rings fans, I also started buying the Castle series (Fantasy Era). Being an engineering nerd, I also got into PF and RC to make vehicles (mostly tank like, as they are the easiest to control without having servos). I'm definitely better at modifying LEGO sets and models from other people than I am at true MOCs, but I'm working on it.

It doesn't help when you don't advertise your sets, only have them for sale at LEGO stores (which didn't even exist until nearly the time 9V was being discontinued), or obscurely online. It's almost as if they WANTED trains for hobbyists to fail. Then their argument about needing a lower price point to target for kids simply didn't work... the new sets are just as expensive, more-so if you're trying to adapt something like the EN to PF. Model railroading is a big hobby that supports dozens of manufacturers in a half dozen scales, I came to LEGO as an adult BECAUSE of the trains, I was an N-scale hobbyist for YEARS before moving to LEGO because I didn't even know about the "real" hobbyist versions of the LEGO trains (9V) until they'd been out for 10 years already.... and I bought model railroading magazines and everything, not one advertisement! I bought my first LEGO train set (Railway Express) because I found it on sale at a Sam's Club (a discount warehouse club, for those not in North America), of all places, around Christmas in 2001 or 2002. I bought two sets because I didn't know where I'd be able to buy extra rail or motors if I wanted to build my own. How can they NOT make money? People are paying $7+ for a single piece of USED straight 9V rail. They're paying $30+ for USED motors. If someone can't figure out how to make good money on that, they're not trying. Don't get me wrong; LEGO can make whatever decisions they want. If they don't want to do trains, they don't have to; if they don't think it's worth it, that's fine, that's their prerogative. But that doesn't mean we can't come here and express our opinions (even ones that have been expressed many times already) and talk about how short sighted we think they're being. What they've shown, the hard way, is that people cannot count on them to support their hobby. When my last 9V motor burns out, I'll be going to HO because I know it will be around for a LONG time; it's not possible for a single company to pull the rug out from under me after I've spent thousands of dollars on HO products. And when I do that, I'll stop buying things like the Grand Emporium; the Green Grocer; the Firehouse... I've spent more on non-train LEGO in the past year because of LEGO trains. I know I'm not the typical LEGO buyer, and so does LEGO, that's fine for them. All I can do, then, is express my disappointment and move on... to something besides LEGO for my train hobby.