Dread Pirate Wesley

Excellent update, Ive always admired this ship through its stages. The dark blue looks really excellent as well. The capstan is a great design though probably still a bit small for a ship of this scale! This picture is very interesting to me: Did you redesign the entire side using jumper plates to step it out half a stud at a time? That must be a lot of jumpers but the result looks good from the outside. The bow re-design looks very nice as well. I think it looks a little more brick-like than wood but the curve is beautiful. Great update, looking forward to seeing more! Dread Pirate Wesley

I will try to address all of your points although Bart already answered the third for me. There is a major difference between a ship becalmed and a ship under sail, mine is meant to be under sail. In that case, try to imagine that the gunstripe at the bow would be parallel to the waters surface as the ships bow would be much lower as it pushes through the water. So in this case, it should not curve upward at the bow. It would however curve more and more upward as it runs aft. Here is one of my favorite paintings of Agamemnon under sail and you can see how parallel the gunline looks under sail: Again, I am basing this model on a vessel under sail so models and drawings will not match those lines. My model begins its curve up from midships and continues to the stern. Also, I can't compare my ship to Sebeus's Dutchman, the two ships are too different. Our building techniques may seem similar but they are very different technically. I believe (and he may correct me if Im wrong) but his is an adaptation of CGH's frigate technique using hinge plates, mine uses a system of hing bricks to make a complex curve increasingly inward as it goes higher. I dont believe any other ship uses this technique at this time. You can see it more clearly in this old image, as you can see it is only truly vertical for 2 bricks before it starts sloping inwards: I will work on a solution of making the whole ship lower to the water by one brick as I think this will enhance the look greatly. Bart, Im glad you understand what I am going for. It does curve inwards in the last third of the ship more and more towards the rudder, are you saying that it curves too much or too soon? Thanks for the comments, DPW

Currently the hull is 100 studs long not including the beakhead and adding 8 studs for the stern galleys (dont have lanterns yet). The beakhead is about 8 studs long but its hard to measure due to the building techniques. So when its all finished I would estimate length approximately 110 studs and beam of 24 studs. On the main gundeck the length is 92 studs which gives a length to beam ratio of 3.8. For comparison, the most famous 64 HMS Agamemnon has a length to beam ratio of 3.63 on the main gundeck, so fairly close to my own proportions. When it's finished we shall have to have a photoshop Pirate vs. Navy battle between our two flagships. Yours is a great build and I hope mine holds the same level of detail when she is finished. Until then the dockyards shall remain hard at work while the Dutchman takes its toll to the locker unchallenged. DPW

Ringleheim, Thank you for the comments. All builds in the Lego medium tend to be a mixture of compromise unfortunately. My compromise on this model was to make the ship taller so that it could be filled with life (minifigs) yet still maintain as much historical accuracy as possible. There are many things that I wish I could make more accurate, and some that I probably will once I find a solution. When it comes to your final point on the tumblehome, or slope of the hull as you describe it, I refer you to this image from my plans: On the left side of this drawing we see the shape as it progresses forward from the stern. On the right we are looking at the bow as it progresses aft. I added the blue line to simulate where the waterline would be. As you can see, towards the stern the hull does indeed slope inwards towards the waterline as you say. But as the ship runs forward, especially with as bluff a bow as this, the hull becomes much more vertical and even slopes outward momentarily around midships. This would be even more pronounced when a ship was preceding to battle, as captains generally shifted ballast forward to give a "nose low" attitude especially under heavy sail. I would refer you to Geoff Hunt's painting of HMS Victory under stunsails, an excellent depiction of this. Under calm winds or light loading a ship would certainly have a more "rounded" appearance above the waterline tapering inwards, but that's not quite what I'm going for. The stern section in its current form does slope inwards as you can see, as a larger portion of it would be raised than the bow when under sail. Here's how she sits right now, and you can see how it curves inward toward the stern while being vertical from midships forward: If I could, I would lower the entire ship one brick so it wasn't quite so steep, perhaps I will find a way to do that in the future. As for the color I tried many different colors after looking on bricklink for what parts came in what colors. Yellow was the only solution available for now that I would consider close to accurate. I love the new dark tan, which I used for the decks, but they simply don't make the kinds of bricks I need in that color... yet. Daniel, I have been following your Victory build on MSW very closely as you can tell! Hopefully you don't mind me using some of your images for reference, the level of detail in your build log has proved invaluable even though my ship is a third rate not a first. Thanks again for the comments. Any advice is always welcome as it will probably always be a WIP! DPW

Hello Daniel! Glad to hear that you and others are following my build from Germany. Unfortunately I don't speak German very well but Id love to attempt to read it if you could provide a link to the thread. As for everyone else, this thread has attracted a lot of views since I was in the forum last so I wanted to provide an update. After a bit of a building doldrums I'm starting to get back into this ship. I hope to have the forecastle section with full masts and basic rigging done soon. I actually ran out of cannons after building nearly 50 of them, I must have miscalculated how many pieces I needed but that's easy to do with so many! More pictures will be posted soon as the forecastle gets finished. Then it will be on to finishing the stern. Thanks for the comments everyone! Dread Pirate Wesley

This looks great in real brick! Certainly an interesting technique. I agree about the width I think 24 would be fine but would not go any narrower. Mine is 22 at the bottom and you can make it work, but it gets a little tricky, my ship is also a lot "shorter". Are you planning on curving the gun line at all? Glad to see another ship of the line taking shape! Dread Pirate Wesley

There are actually two sizes in that pile, the larger is a 24 pounder the smaller is a 18 pounder. There are 26 of each on the main gundecks. Here's a size comparison between the two with my sigfig: And with a row of 18 pounders from the upper gundeck: And thanks for the compliments Perfectionist! I had thought of using Lego cannon originally but size wise they were too impractical, and with all the different calibers and the carronades it would look odd to mix and match. DPW

Thanks and Im glad it has inspired you! Looking forward to seeing your design in real brick too. Completed the cannon for the gundecks this afternoon. Perhaps the last time I would be able to picture a whole gun decks worth together before they are in place so cant let it go to waste! 16 pieces for each cannon so there's about 288 pieces in the second shot: Next up will be finishing the bow and forecastle with ladderways and details. Stay tuned DPW

I like your capstan, though I think its a bit too cylindrical for a ship-of-the-line. From my research anyways, the capstan should taper up to the drumhead where the bars attach. This drawing illustrates just how big these capstans should be: Obviously it is very difficult to make it that size on a minifig illusion scale ship. I tried a couple of everyones suggestions for comparisson. The top photo is my original design but with a narrower barrel base. In the second example I replaced the bars with narrower ones. I think this looks good but because of the design it makes a rather odd star shape rather than having the bars aligned towards the center. And the final photo is my original design. All three have my trusty sigfig for a size comparison. Let me know which version you prefer! DPW

Actually capstans on ships of the line are quite huge. I was in awe of the size of the caps on HMS Victory first time I saw it. Heres a picture for reference: And for size comparison of a human at 1/72nd scale I believe, courtesy of Model Ship World: As you see it should be about chest high, and the beams should be quite massive since they required nearly 100 men to make them move. Heres a small picture of the beams on Victory: Hope that makes a bit more sense! DPW

I apologize for my protracted absence. I took a bit of time off during the POTC contest and have only recently started building again. Alas I have been making progress though! During my hiatus I was pondering a new capstan design that would look accurate, be functional, and also connect between the two gundecks. Here is ultimately what I came up with: This piece was really my inspiration since it allowed for six bars to be connected to it for manning. Here's what it looks like fitted between the decks. the design allows for 6 4-long bars to be attached to it as shown in the second picture. The bars are chest high on a minifig which is just right. As you can see Ive added quite a bit to the waist of the ship, including boat rails, hatches, ladders etc. But more on that later. Here is one more view of the lower gundeck. You can see how it connects to the upper capstan through the deck, allowing them to rotate together. Let me know what you think. More updates soon I promise! Dread Pirate Wesley

Fantastic work Derfel. The lines look excellent, and the details are great. The rigging is particularly well done. I only wish there was a star somewhere on her! (Afterall Ceinwyn's symbol was a star if I recall my Cornwell correctly) She looks right fit to repel the armada along with Golden Hind though Just needs a crew and some sails Dread Pirate Wesley

Wahey! A ship to offer a rare action I trust Looking forward to the update DPW

Hey this is great! A really nice looking brig. Love the use of arms on the stern and the color scheme. Only 2 things I would suggest changing is the rigging extends really low over the side of the ship, and the stern seems a bit low. The stern galleries should be at the same level as the gunline, I know that would be difficult to do but it would improve the overall aesthetics of the ship I feel. Its a great design though, with some interesting elements and it compliments your other ship very well! Keep it up Dread Pirate Wesley

Forestmen! But then I voted for the spartan right after and it said thank you for your vote, and then again for the elf... So can you vote multiple times? DPW

Try 64 guns! This is really looking great though. Just out of curiosity, is there anything holding your cannon in place? Or are they loose on the deck? Keep it up DPW

Ah, I should have worded that differently I know that I cant add them directly but Im glad that you did! I have some more I will share later, Ill be sure to post them to that thread then. Thanks! DPW

Well, here's a few for inspiration: And more on this Flickr gallery. P.S. Admiral Croissant, how can I add some new cannon designs to the index? Dread Pirate Wesley

Thanks for the explination. Ive been looking at ways to improve this but haven't come up with anything feasible. The black part is high to fit a minifig standing up under the poop deck in the cabins. All the decks in fact are just barely tall enough to fit a fig so I can't really lower them any. That leaves the only solution to lengthen the ship to give it a more accurate proportion. For example if there was 6 studs between every gun instead of 4 then the height would not be an issue since it would be longer overall. I will not be going that route though, since it is minifig illusion scale and designed to fit figs at every station while still looking as accurate as possible, this is the best my design will allow. I think I will curve the yellow line more at the stern however, and once the poop is done you will also see how it will match the curve quite nicely. Still very much a work in progress, but thanks for the advice DPW

Not quite sure what you mean here. If you are referring to the stern galleries those are really just there for demonstration purposes. The stern itself does curve as it runs aft, albeit rather gradually. The poop deck will also slope upwards using the technique I came up with for HM Schooner Pickle. The upper gunports actually are straight with the waterline, as youll notice in the reference drawing, and the stern curves around them. Any more elaboration is appreciated! DPW

Welcome to EB Nefarious! I would like to widen the bulkheads but I also want the space there to fit an officers cot or trunk. Right now the two cabins on either side (which I believe is called the cuddy?) are 3 wide which is just barely big enough for a fig, at 2 wide I think it would be too narrow, although I agree it would look better from the outside. Thanks for the comments! More updates soon DPW

Yes you spotted a problem that I hadnt noticed! That's why I created this thread And thank you Admiral Croissant as well for the image. I was focusing too much on placement of the bulkheads rather than the mizzen, but I think I found a solution. I moved the whole assembly 4 studs forward, and made a little bit more space by moving the wheel for'ard and the binnacle aft like so: This allowed me to move the mizzen 5 studs forward into a more correct position. By my estimation it is still about 2 studs aft of where it should be, but I would rather have space and details on the quarterdeck at this point. A comparison shot with my original reference drawing: I think this is an improved placement and should look good with the poopdeck installed as well. It looks like the foremast is also slightly aft but that may be an illusion of the camera lens, I will double check it. Any further advice is appreciated! DPW

Perhaps I should have shown a comparrison shot of how it would look on a ship of the line. Heres how it looks on HMS Victory, the only remaining ship of the line. It is situated at the rear of the quarterdeck, just bellow the poopdeck, and thats the mizzen mast directly behind it. Notice too the binnacle right in front of it: And on a model of the same class of ship Im building you can see it looks very much the same, except for less space on deck since it is quite a bit smaller than Victory: There are cannon on either side, as there is in the cabins behind the bulkheads. How often these cannons were used I dont know, but I think Horry is right that mostly they are stowed there as spares as I doubt any guncrews were assigned to them. I know the dimensions look tight but despite the size of the ship is still much smaller than minifig scale, so some creative adjustments are needed while maintaining as much historical accuracy as possible. To answer CaptMC's question yes she will be crewed, probably not a full 500 like the real ship but as many as I can feasibly fit to man every station. Thanks for the comments again everyone DPW

Thanks for the suggestions Bart. Im trying to make it tilt inwards to make it appear smoother, it's getting close. It has been a while since I posted an update so I figured I'd share what Ive been working on recently. Mostly I've been working on the quarterdeck and the poopdeck, trying to get the shape correct and the deck in place to begin the stern. It took a long time to get it right, but here is the current result: I also had a crack at the poopdeck bulkheads, the wheel, and the binnacle (which houses the compass). This part was a lot of fun to research and get right. Im pleased how it turned out and took some pictures before it becomes enclosed by the poopdeck: And finally how it looks fitted on the quarterdeck. One cannon is fitted in place to make sure it has clearance. Im not sure if the binnacle would go in front of or behind the wheel on a 64, but on 74's it seems to vary a lot. The hatch in the foreground is for an access ladder. The admiral is examining the progress: Still a lot of work to be done, as you can see. Once the quarterdeck and poopdeck is finished it will be time to begin the stern! Comments welcome, thanks for looking everyone DPW

Finally got in to your brickshelf gallery, man are those pictures huge! But I think you should resize them and post some more here because clearly you've put a lot of work into this ship. Overall it's very nice, I especially like the rigging you've done, and the brickbuilt anchor. The only part that looks a bit odd to me is the bow. I think the headrails extend too far down and overall the bow has a very angular feel. But the rigging is particularly inspired and I think you've done a greate job recreating a classic ship Oh and welcome to the forum! Dread Pirate Wesley