firefabric

Thank you for the compliments, I feel like it's too much but I'm really happy to hear you had a good time with it! It was definitely quite a long project in terms of designing everything, the shape especially was fine-tuned many times over before I was happy with how the different areas come together. And as you know, any small fine-tuning usually leads to a full rebuild more or less, including recreating the internal connections... But that's also part of the fun, at least if it works out somehow :) Thanks, much appreciated! I've had some ideas but nothing concrete so far. Usually my inspiration comes from Back to the Future -themed things, but I do like the Ghostbusters and Batman vehicles especially, so at some point there will probably be at least attempts :) Thanks!

Finished also the convertible version of the '59 Cadillac recently, this was a much simpler build as most of the work was already done with the Ecto-1. Naturally I had to change a few things here and there and I made it a bit shorter to match the real car. It's still really big in comparison to 'normal' sized Speed Champions cars but that's how it's in reality as well. Due to using a few fairly new parts and color variations, there was not too much choice for color so ended up making it black, which I think actually looks pretty good with the maroon (dark red) interior. There's also a detachable 'convertible' roof: More information can be found on Rebrickable: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-175134/firefabric/1959-cadillac-convertible/

What anyone says is of course from their point of view. I can see people who create MOCs and have had something like this happen mostly understand where this is coming from, whether it's finally warranted or not. But I appreciate both points of view, and that's the original topic of this discussion. Like I said, I accept that we feel what we feel and I will leave it at that, and the issues itself is dealt with. To put a more positive spin on things, something good also came out of this. I have also been working on changes and updates to my version in the past couple of years, and this inspired me to finish them...

Thank you also for a good and balanced write-up of your experience. I can quite easily relate, up to getting the similar comments. I did expect to get them but I still wanted to have the discussion to see how different people in the community actually feel about this. And I can see it's quite related to anyone's point of view, whether they are MOC creators or builders and if they have faced something like this themselves.

This thread was not directed to you specifically, I wanted to have a more general idea on what's going on because I felt the way I felt. You have chosen to deny any kind of influence whatsoever, so there would not have been much to discuss anyway. I also disagree with that, but that's sometimes an acceptable solution and I consider the case closed.

Well, I have to say that was an interesting read, thanks for posting those 2+ cents. It definitely gives a wider perspective and I understand the point better. I can also see you know X-wings throughout, you should probably make this into a blog post somewhere, lots of great information. I thought I was quite well versed in DeLorean/Time Machine but seems I have some more studying to do... >>>> As, for example, you didn't research or credit prior builders with similar solutions in your Delorean, or I suppose in your Knight Rider car or other creations. <<<< The way my build process goes is that first I try to think of ways to implement some key aspects of the subject, and try to specifically not look at any other versions, at least in detail, so that I don't get my mind locked into any existing solution. If I come up with something I think would work, at some point I will check out what's been done and evaluate if I have enough new ideas to add to the subject. If yes, I'll go ahead and build, if not, it goes into the back burner to wait for better ideas. But in any case, obviously my builds will also end up having some similarities to existing ones, just as others to mine, that's just how it is in Lego (as we have discussed here). In general, I do not expect any credit (I have never thought to ask for, even in this case I didn't) or feel the need to credit others if there are some similarities (as you have also pointed out it's normal). But I do do the research also, maybe I didn't state that anywhere clearly so far.

I can agree to most of this, and it's a reasonable way of thinking, I have considered this aspect too. And I do appreciate the compliment to my build also of course. Just wanted to clarify a couple of things. >>>> He objects to the Barneius build because, even though it may have a different structure and different details, it "achieves the same result".<<<< This is something I said in the context of the 'same shell with different structure' example, and I specified I'm not saying that was done here. Just what could have been done, as an extreme example. >>>> Nevertheless, I think it's striking that the only Delorean that Firefabric has singled out for criticism is the one that he thinks looks just as good as his own. He has said, more or less, in the page and comments for his build, that his own build is the first one that he thinks really looks good, or really looks like the real thing.<<<< It is of course because it was the one that looked too similar to my eye (good or not), the others I had no issues with. That was the whole point but no need to get back to that. And I have never said anywhere mine looks better than any other one, that is an incorrect interpretation, I hope you see that. If you read my description, I have made attemps to build it before, and this was the first one out of my builds that I liked enough to share. When I published it, I had no clue how it would actually be received. Also, elsewhere I have stated that I don't think any small-scale Lego DeLorean actually really still looks right, not mine or others, it's a difficult subject in Lego. If we go a bit further with this thought process (in theory), what happens if/when we achieve the ultimate/optimal DeLorean or X-wing or anything else, where it's as close as it can be with these bricks. Should we then stop making that subject altogethe as it'll be exactly the same I.e it will always be a copy. Is that ok to do the exact same one then on the grounds that it can't be improved anymore? This is more of a thought experiment as I don't think we are anywhere near yet. Maybe the X-wing might be the best example of that tho.

Sure, and as I said earlier I haven't asked for credit or copyright or any 'first use' etc, and I have also stated I understand that there are normal similarities between builds, mine and others, done before and after. The issue was different and quite frankly I had no expectations of the outcome, just wanted to state my opinion.

This was of course discussed already but it's true, and it would affect probably 90% or more of builds on RB. It's not just movies or games. It's car brands, even some buildings etc etc.

Then why are all the other DeLoreans so different that the thought of them being somehow too similar didn't even cross my mind in the slightest ever before...

Well, I really can't understand how you can say they are entirely different? That's obviously not the case. If they were, why would I have asked RB for an opinion (and btw, I didn't even ask it to be taken down, this was the first time I even considered anything like this so I asked them for advice). This is your opinion and I'm sorry that I don't agree.

You at least seem to think I'm wrong if I'm not mistaken.... I have pointed out all the similarities many times so not copying it here again, but for example if you look at the rear quarter view especially, that's almost identical (not considering certain details of course). Anyway, the point of the whole discussion has been where's the line of too many similarities. I feel in this case there were too many, and you don't think so. And you may be right, I'm not sure. And once more, no need to ask me to relax, italics or not. This is a discussion, I have my opinion and you have yours, we can talk about it but we don't have to agree in everything. And the matter is anyway officially closed, we are just going about it for the sake of it. No need to get worked up. >>>> In that case, we may as well shut down MOC building entirely. If asserting a vague sense of "looking too similar" is enough to get you to file a complaint with Rebrickable and make a long blog post about it, then the first builder to make a recognizable model of any particular object has rights to that object in perpetuity and nobody else can ever build it ever again. I hope that's sarcasm btw...

>>>> At the bottom of the car body, on either side Barneius uses cheese slopes with studs left and studs right to create a 6-stud-long area that slopes inward. Firefabric's model has studs-up plate stacking in that area with no attempt to model that nuance of the source material. These differing details point to major structural differences in the way the bottom of the car chassis is built. Mine has a half-stud inset on the bottom plate to create an inward 'nuance', as well as wedge plates in the corners to bulge them up towards the wheel wells. So there is an attempt... I did have a development version trying out the exact same slope as Barneius, but somehow it didn't suit the overall look in my eye. In his it looks fine though.

That's quite an analysis. I do agree to many of the things even if you are going into it a bit biased, mainly trying to prove me wrong. On the similarities side you mostly ask 'is that so relevant' etc to dismiss the similarity, on the differences side you point out every small thing to prove the point. But yes I agree to most of it, and I'll tell you why: I would like to make one thing clear, and you can verify this from the other party if you wish. I have not claimed any copyright or even asked credit for any specific parts, not the tail lights, not the rear vents, nothing. I have only said I feel the build is too similar design-wise, and having too many similar and (almost) identical details, makes them look too similar. The other party came up with the credit about the tail lights and the vents by himself as those things are the most obvious similarities, I didn't ask for it. And yes, obviously there are details in mine that can also be found in other builds, I have never said otherwise and never claimed any details 'for myself'. >>>> You see, it really bothers me when someone gets suspected of copying, stealing, or plagiarizing someone else's work, without grounds. Whether there are grounds or not, it is again a matter of opinion. I keep repeating this because many commenters seem to offer their opinion as the truth.

Well, I don't think it should matter who it is, but yes I can honestly agree that he is one of the best creators in that space and I have always liked his MOCs, and I have expressed that in our conversation as well. But that's also partly why I was so surprised at first when I saw his DeLorean, I thought why would he need to release something so close to mine, as his stuff is usually very original and on point. If it really is unintentional, I accept but I just thought there were so many similarities and identical things, that it was not likely given that there have been 2 years in between, and there are so many other DeLorean MOCs out there which are nowhere near this close. But ya, it's again a matter of opinion and anyway this discussion was not about who it was. Yes I would have felt differently if the releases were say a few weeks apart, then it's most likely a coincidence, that happens often when for example some new part gives the inspiration, as you said. Not saying it can't be like that now, but the odds in general would turn the other way given the time span. Btw if you look at all the DeLoreans on RB, most of them look very different to each other, so there is actually a lot of variation. And I have moved on, it's not about that, I published another MOC myself also after this thing already. I'm responding to the discussion because it's interesting, and some of it is quite constructive, like your X-wing reference.