Fabien Bellamy

All right, lots of catch up to do. I will reply inside your quote, Vincent, because it's easier. Look for the 'scum red'(TM) text. <-- never noticed this emoticon before, it's... mildly unsettling. Wait, how did Alex confirm you as blocker? He never mentioned being blocked, and couldn't since he had no night action. Just imagine (Scum Perspective) that Scum knew that none of them was being blocked last night. Great incentive to refrain from killing anyone and cast suspicion on three Townies. But what exactly are the chances that Scum knew about your strategy? At least 5 people knew about the night plans, none of them proven Town yet. Yup. Except if Scum decided not to kill, or hit a protected player. Lots of unknowns there. But despite all this I do think we should focus of the blocked players first, myself included. Can Robin clarify why he asked about protecting you, then went on and didn't use his action last night? Justin claims to have targeted Andrew and Daniel, but we don't know for sure. He could have killed Remi, then Jean, then was blocked attempting to kill an unknown target. He knows he wasn't tracked, and nobody mentioned having watched Remi or Jean or we would have known. Voyeur is also a peculiar action, in that it doesn't conflict with a potential town Watcher claim (to be clear, a Watcher will know who has targeted a player, but not the action used). Adding this to the suspicions I already had, I'm not very confident about Justin's towniness. Vote: Justin Raynaud.

You misunderstand me. I'm saying that it's obvious that there could have be a vanilla player in the game, regardless of what people think of what should be the game setup, or what it was in a past game. I don't think that you can justify your vote based on what Mafia Wiki says is allowed or possible to do. It just looks to me like you're trying to over-explain that you (and others) have made an false assumption. I was blocked, so was it one of you two?

Better late then never, huh? I don't think our host is bound by any specific rules, so whatever is defined on Mafia Wiki is irrelevant if Bob decided that he wanted precisely one vanilla player in the game. I thought that it was obvious from the fact that no one else claimed vanilla to support Alex. Freudian slip, hmm... I think that covers it well. We must consider that not all Town roles are in play every night. Some like Robin might have a limited number of shots. Other roles might be completely passive. Perhaps they avoided targeting the known PRs for some reason? Other option, there might not be any Scum blockers. But if they have one, my bet is that it's one of the three known blockers. It's an easy way to explain any night activity and maintain the pretense of collaborating with Town. Wait, I thought the point was to validate Fred and Andrew as blockers, since they had only blocked each other so far?

Hmm. You're right about that. Which makes the N1 list less useful, as the N1 killer could have been Joshua. Vincent could have a role with a limited number of shots, like Robin. Therefore he wasn't blocked, yet didn't do anything on Night 1. Not all claims can be easily proven. Vincent is giving us a perfect example. Doesn't do anything when he's tracked, yet claims a role. Unless one is blocker or tracker, there's not much to be done to validate a claim. He was blocked, so he couldn't be the night 1 killer. But after Joshua was lynched, he could have become the replacement killer indeed.

I don't mind being blocked if that will prove that I'm not the killer. Moreover, if you think that Alex is Scum because of his vanilla claim, then he can't be the killer either.

The killer might get blocked, but what are the chances? It also could be three Townies, automatically gaining considerable suspicion. Especially if there's a Scum blocker among the claims, and they can pretend to target whoever they choose. I'm mentioning it, because I want Scum to consider it. Spare a Townie life, confuse us for a Day. I dare them to do it.

I just had a worrying thought. With so many blockers (or pretend blockers) around, if the Scum killer was to skip a night, they would confuse the hell out of us.

Try a crowbar.

Unless he's a Strongman. Same goes for Robin.

I thought I would examine Joshua's contributions to this game. Day 1: That's it for Day 1. He didn't push for a lynch, even though Town couldn't make up their mind. Day 2: It's my belief that there should be at least one Scum in this list. It's Mafia Law. It would be weird for him to analyse only Town players without trying to plug in one of his own. I don't think Daniel is that one. We have Aiden, Joshua has valid concerns about him. Then Andrew, a weaker case there. Robin: a weak case also. Justin: harmless. That pings me. There, glad to help! Thanks, but I would have liked to hear it from Daniel. "Shouldn't we be lynching Alex?" Is that an opinion or just testing the waters? If you think we should lynch Alex, switch your vote. Are you not confident in your case against Justin anymore?

Depends on whether he believed the claim. I'm trying to understand Daniel's choice. He didn't vote for Alex on day one, he could have chosen to jail you or Aiden, but didn't. Unless his plan was to *protect* Alex, but at that point in the game it was probably more productive for a Jailer to look for someone to block rather than someone to protect. Ping.

By the way, Daniel, did you tell us what led you to target Alex on night 1? Had he already claimed vanilla to you?

Honestly I don't see what part of Justin's answers made you change your mind about him and unvote. It's not a defense, it's a counter-attack. You've read my reasons for voting him, how in the world could he explain away that the timing of his votes is suspicious? It's an accusation based on facts, and maybe he's an unlucky townie who just happened to have voted in a disturbing pattern, but in my opinion it's a good theory that I'd like to test. And about fishing: I didn't accuse anyone of fishing... yet. I'm only warning you of not doing it. Those who think that the point of voting is fishing for claims, are thinking like Scum. Can you elaborate on that idea?

The current strategy is to lynch Justin. Not to have him claim, even though it may be inevitable as he's getting closer to a lynch. But Joshua died without claiming if I remember correctly, so to each their own. Your theory about Emmett is good, plausible. It doesn't mean it's true, it's still a theory. You're giving us 4 choices between Robin, Fred, Trenton and Emmett. I will tentatively label Robin as possibly Town, given that he was blocked last night. Fred's claim doesn't help me decide. As for Trenton and Emmett, it could go either way too. So even it's possible that one of them is Scum, I couldn't really choose between them at the moment. But here's the essence of why I'm voting for Justin: he voted for a known Scum twice, once at the very beginning of Day 1 when it was totally inconsequential, then at the end of Day 2 when Joshua's lynch was inevitable, and therefore the vote also inconsequential. What better way to try and dissociate yourself from your Scum buddy? It's not a proof of Justin's guilt, nothing short of a night result ever will. But it's good enough for me. And I don't need him to claim, Scum can claim very convincingly too.

This is an interesting conundrum. We can fish for claims to try and verify our host's setup. We can use the information to coordinate Town moves. But in doing so we're giving so much information to Scum, it's pathetic. Please stop claiming, and stop fishing for claims. At least don't do it in public, unless it's something uber vital to the current day strategy. Alex could be vanilla, or he could lying about it because he's Scum, or he could be lying about it because he has an important town role, whatever. I don't think it's prudent to keep pushing for more people to give away PRs, unless they're doing it to save their butt. ....

The other thing is, Emmett and Joshua jumping on Daniel's bandwagon one right after the other seems like a brash move to me. But, yeah, why not? There were, indeed, already 3 votes on Joshua by then.

I find Fred's late (and in a way superfluous) *vote* suspicious as well. I keep making typos.

Your point is not forgotten. This is precisely why I'm asking Fred about his target choice. Because while Emmett's vote on your bandwagon is suspicious, I find Fred's late (and in a way superfluous) suspicious as well. That said, given the Pirates 2 setup, the role duplication deserves a closer look, but could be real.

And before I'm called away on plague business and miss on voting again, I will.. Vote: Justin Raynaud. I can totally buy into Vincent's analysis here. I also agree with Daniel's suspicions of Emmett, but to me right now Justin seems like a stronger case. On the other hand, if Justin is lynched and flips Scum, I will be worried. Joshua started off by placing a poke vote on me on day 1.

I meant to say "Why did Andrew block Fred" of course.

Wow, I honestly didn't expect for Joshua to flip Scum. I didn't think Jean's rationale was solid enough, but I didn't catch that his vote might have been motivated by insider information. In retrospect it does make sense. Scum killing him was a logical choice as well, given he would have been a confirmed Townie today. Either it is role madness, or someone is a scum blocker. Perhaps explaining your target choices can help (and I'm speaking in general, not only to Andrew). Why did Fred choose to block Peter instead of Robin or Aiden (his votes on day 1) ? Why did Andrew block (or should I say vanilaize ) Peter?

I feel this is getting out of control. While I can appreciate the intensity of the game, there's a limit to my enjoyment of name calling and personal attacks. It's only a game, no need to get all worked up about it.

Okay. I don't see anything in those PMs that requires sharing "to at least 5 players just in case 3 of them are Scum". There's nothing really sensitive, just sharing opinions. Not a single role claim, not a night action result, nothing factual. Daniel, what makes you think that Vincent should have PMed this to half the group?

For now I'm thinking Daniel is a misled Townie, while I'm neutral about Vincent. And I don't think that either of them flipping Town in case of a successful lynch will tell us much about the other. Of course, it's another matter altogether if the lynchee is Scum. I did read the day thread, but how did actually Joshua manage to get so many votes? And I'm not buying the "Vincent PMed Aiden so either they're Masons or Scum" theory. If there's more to it, please explain it to me. Did I miss something?

If they're Masons and Town, there's no way that we will lynch one of them plus you to verify the other. Are you proposing to lynch two Townies to verify a third, on the odd chance that one of you is actually Scum?