Visorak-kal

Neat, all in one place now. That saves the trouble of changing numbers. :-D Tyranide, I think we don't know teh Icarax and Mutran numbers because they actually have not been released yet. In fact, LEGO has officialy released zero information on either set, they haven't even given us a clue if they exist! Their only references were in the story, and we only know they will be sets because GregF has said so. LEGO is really keeping those guys under wraps. Oh, the suspense! :-D VK

Nice work, Tyranide! Did you find them by searching one by one with the multi-digit codes? That must have been a lot of work. I also bring news from BZP! Shop at Home has now uploaded pics of the canister sets and Toa Ignika. They are not available, but if you go to the Matoran links (the ones Tyranide got), and type in the four-digit set number of the canister sets or Ignika, you can see three pics of each one from Shop at Home. To change the pic view, change the second digit pair to 13, 23, or 33. VK

I am really liking the Phantoka and Matoran, especially Toa Ignika (as seen on the last page of the .pdf instructions that Jinzoningen linked to.) ! My thoughts: Chirox: Easily the best of the Makuta Phantoka, IMO. He has style, the Hordika legs actually look good on him, I like his aerodynamic feel and I love his mask. I am also really liking the new bodies; they have style, thought I'm interested to see how they work on creations other than the Makuta. I really like the use of two-toed feet, LEGO is really taking advantage of their older pieces, I like how they slightly change them to make a completely new piece. They did this with Kalmah in 2007, the feet used to be Hordika, but they changed them slightly to look better. Vamprah: My least favorite, solely because of his mask; personally, I just don't like it. But I have to give them credit for a very interesting design, and use of four legs. He is the first quadriped canister set in three years. Here's hoping they give us a quadriped Titan again! 2007 lacked one of those. Pohatu Nuva: Hooray for the return of functions! Okay, so it's a spinny stick, but it IS a start! Combined with what GregF said will be more advanced functions later in 2008 and Karzahni this year, functions seem to be returning ever so slightly! I also love Pohatu's mask. The only problem with the new Nuva is their design similarity to the Inika; I had hoped for new armor. However, the Nuva really do improve on the Inika designs. They've bulked them up, given them more STYLE, and still retained some little bits from the original 2002 Nuva. Hey, Pohatu is still the shortest. And I love his mask; it looks like the Vahi, which is one of my favorite masks of all time. Kopaka Nuva: I find his design an improvement over the Inika. Notice, oh, I don't know, BACK ARMOR! Long have I waited for back armor. It first appeared with Brutaka, then Vezon had it slightly, the Mahri had it but they lost front armor in exchange. Now Kopaka has that Inika shoulder piece as back armor, which I love! I also like his wings; they are very solid, nicely fitting of a Toa of Ice. I really like his little bayonet piece, and the best thing about him is that the Midak fits very nicely. I am glad to see that his hands really do attach to his bayonet, I had feared that it was merely a pose on the canister front and he held it in some ugly position in real life. I am glad to see the Matoran have two body types, further increasing their value. Photok looks ugly now, but Solek, Radiak, and Tanma look superb. Gavla and Kirop are also nice. I am intersting in the new heads, I wonder if it would be possible to attach them to the Phantoka Makuta, this Chirox can have those big red eyes like he does in the poster. It is a shame they let down on pieces and use pre-bent pieces, as Jinzoningen said, but then again these pieces look really nice and come in a great variety, so it may not be so bad after all. What do you guys think of Toa Ignika? VK

I actually like the launchers, I think it is a neat way of doing launchers without a gun-like weapon (which is the newest trend.) I also think they go pretty well with the Phantoka's design scheme. I know! So far that's the coolest thing about 2008, IMO. Yeah, he's got nothing but the bayonet. But on the bright side, that makes him the Toa that the new launcher looks best on. Really? I always thought that he could possibly stay in flight with only one propellor on, I didn't see him as necessarily needing both. That means he can fly, shoot people with his launcher, and slash them with his other propellor. Plus, it is a new concept, neither a jetpack nor wings. Plus for innovation! :-) I like these new pics, although it's a shame that the Chirox one is so small. I can't wait to see what he looks like. So far, I am going for all the Nuva so far, along with Toa Ignika, Chirox, and Antroz. I'm just not a big fan of Vamprah. I think it's his mask; other than that, he's okay. But the mask destroys him for me. VK

Ah, I see it wasn't legit. Oh, well. We'll see him eventually! BTW, people in the U.S. don't have to do the search for Downfall anymore, since anyone in the U.S. can order it off Barnes&Noble.com. VK

Not as of yet; it was only promoted at McDonald's recently. However, since this was not advertised by LEGO or BIONICLE, there is speculation on BZP that Clonie may be correct and that this may simply be McDonald's getting rid of old BIONICLE stock, that being the Inika/Piraka promotions from last year. I wouldn't bet on constructible figures, though. The McToran only made it because they were made of a few pieces, any Matoran nowadays would be made of far too many pieces to be a promotional item. We've come farther than McToran now. VK

I don't really mind his analogies. The man likes comic books and superheroes and uses them as analogies. I have read his recent books, and I don't really get a comic or superhero feel, to tell the truth. I'm not really a comic fan myself, in fact the only comics I read are the BIONICLE comics and that is cause I get the mfor free. I see Greg's books neither as comic, nor as mythology; I see it sort of like epic. And there was a quote a while back saying how Greg viewed the Toa as "police." That quote was taken out of context. The question was to compare the Order of Mata Nui to the Toa. He said that the Toa were like the police and the Order of Mata Nui was like the CIA. Greg views Toa as open heroes; I know I don't see them as super in any way. Superheroes never lose or die, and when they do, it is cliche. I just get a different vibe from the Toa. Very well put, Tohst. To add to what you said, at the end of the new comic, it says, "Coming in 2008: the original Toa return!" So LEGO has decided to play sides to both new and old fans. I mean, think about how this will affect new fans. If I were a new fan, I would be excited to think that these are the original Toa, Toa that I never got a chance to buy. It will contribute to that epic feel that you mentioned. Not necessarily mythological as it used to appear, but epic. I'm one of those that have taken the opinon you mentioned, Tohst. I feel glad simply that LEGO decided to bring back the Nuva as characters. Remember that these Toa are so old that they don't necessarily have to be brought back. We could have gone on for years with newer Toa, and then at the very end, after near 10 years, they could have abandoned the fact that the Nuva are supposed to awaken Mata Nui and have some other Toa team do it. Also, while I think the new Nuva are not as close to the Nuva as would be ideal, I do find that they hearken back to them in minute ways that could definitely not interfere with the target audience. (I'm not saying that making them very similar would interfere with sales, but I am not fully acquainted with what LEGO"s inner marketing shows. Better safe than sorry.) I mean, Kopaka and Lewa have almost the same color schemes as their older selves (I think Kopaka's IS the same). Lewa has a sword that I think is very reminiscent of his two Katana swords. Kopaka does have the eye-thing, and I think it is just an error that it is on the wrong side. I don't think it was done intentionally; I think it was nice that the designers did the eye-thing, as they did not do it for Matoro Inika or Mahri and could have skipped it entirely. I agree with you that LEGO does care about their older fans; this I've always felt when reading the books and how Greg helps older characters "return" whenever he can. I just think that, although they care about their older fanbase, LEGO knows they have to focus on the newer fanbase or else they will not make enough money to let BIONICLE survive. I feel that I must accept the good with the bad, or else lose both entirely. I hope that makes sense, but I must say that you made a very good point there, Tohst. :-) Clonie: I didn't really get annoyed by them, but I do think their characters have improved in 2007. I agree with the City of the Lost beacause I am not a comic book fan and City of the Lost is very epic IMO. As for Sayger, I am so-so on his art. As I scan through comics, I notice that the main panels have really nice art, but the smaller panels are not so good. Sayger does a great job on close-ups and landscapes, but not as good a job on figures viewed from a distance. VK

Since we're talking about blades, I see the smaller blades featured on these new sets more as ornamentation than actually a weapon they would fight with. Similar to Brutaka; his back blades were pretty useless, as they didn't even reach farther than his arm; also, they weren't used as blades, so I consider them ornamentation or just something to make them look cool. I think of the new Lewa Nuva the same; those two blades just seem to be more like "spikes" on his jetpacks than actual blades. I agree; especially with Antroz's wings. Now those are some nice sharp wings. Imagine Antroz using those wings to slice through people! Lord Admiral Helden Ravensdorn, why are you upset at the amount of blades? I would consider swords and more ancient weaponry as more mythical than tools like Vakama's jetpack launcher. (Not that I don't like the jetpack launcher, as to this day it is one of my favorite weapons.) You don't typically see superheroes with blades. ;-) My only disappoint for the new Nuva is that I would have preferred Kopaka to have a blade; still, a bayonet is something new in BIONICLE, and I have always liked the look of bayonets. I agree, Ikki. I wish we had some more colors. But I think that BIONICLE suffers from something that is present in most of LEGO's more recent themes. Notice how in Castle, all the good knights have silver weapons; the swords are silver, the lances are silver, the spears are silver, in fact only the axes are grey. I think it is a common conception that weapons are typically a metallic color. Now, to most of the target audience, I would say that silver probably looks better than the dull metallic color of real swords. See what I mean? Silver probably translates to weapons, so all weapons end up silver in the end. That is why I appreciate different style weapons such as the Barraki's and the Piraka/Inika's. I liked most of the Piraka weapons, actually. I just think that the Inika swords were too bulky at the bottom due to the changeable batteries with the strobe lights. Only Matoro's looked good, IMO. Still, that is just my taste, I think. The rest of the Inika looked fine, save the blobs. I agree with you on the Barraki weapons; they were some of hte most unique yet, especially Kalmah's tentacles. I just love those tentacles! This is why I am liking the style of weaponry on the Makuta Phantoka. The wings and Antroz's and Chirox's weapons are very neat-looking. VK

I, too, preferred the 2006 artwork better than the 2007 artwork. But I think the story was excellent; this only proves that a good climax does not require a supreme battle, like you see in many adventure sagas. Sure, a supreme battle is cool, but it isn't always necessary. I thought the suspense was very good, I was suspecting that all the Mahri would die, and it makes sense that Matoro would save his teammates. Very well done, story-wise. They aren't shorter, Dark_Avenger. They are still twelve pages, the same length. Only the first three issues this year were shorter, since pages were cut to make the mini-movies. I think they seem shorter because there is more story, or maybe because we're spoiled due to the longer books! :-D I agree, Downfall should be excellent, from what I know. VK

Guys, you should all take a look at the talkback topic on BZP for the new comic; there are scans. I must say; very nice. A very nice way to end it; interesting, surprising, twisting, I really do like it. Plus, it makes one wonder even more about the identity of Toa Ignika. VK

Ok, hopefully I don't have too many quotes this time. Tohst: You're wrong here because in 2001 the Matoran WERE the heroes. Stated multiple times by Greg Farshtey, the original creator of BIONICLE, Bob Thompson, intended the Matoran to be the main focus of the story and for them to be the main heroes; the Toa were simply "larger than life." Notice how MNOLG, the main story medium for that year, focuses mainly on Matoran rather than Toa. Takua is the main focus. After 2001, it was realized that the Toa sold better than Rahi and Turaga; then it was decided that the story had to focus more on Toa, because the Toa were the sets that were actually selling. The structure is set up to push Toa because A. Kids prefer heroes that look heroic, and B. Toa sets sell, the matoran are called "impulse sets" because they are bought on impulse, they are not the most important selling points of the line. For your second point, on transformations, let me refer you to the Master of BIONICLE contest that I recently won along with Trexxen. There was a challenge that requested the contestants to make storyline and set changes for the year. One option was whether we should make a new team of Toa, transform older Toa, make Mata Nui the lone hero, or make an entirely new team of heroes that is not Toa. I selected to make an entirely new team of Toa; for me, there were only two possible options. A new team of Toa, or a transformed team of Toa. Why? Because A. Mata Nui as a lone hero is dumb, and B. The market knows "Toa" as BIONICLE's heroes. To change that would be to waste all the hype that has been built around Toa. This hype doesn't come from BIONICLE marketing, but from the fans. The Rahi and Turaga didn't sell in 2001; the Toa did. The Toa have always been viewed as the heroes and main characters, despite Bob Thompson's original plan for the Matoran to be the main focus. The buyers voted otherwise, and in this case I think the buyers were correct. So since Toa must be kept, that leaves us with either making new Toa or transforming old Toa. If BIONICLE had new Toa every year, we would all be complaining that they abandon older characters too quickly. (This would definitely be the case, because story cannot focus on characters that are not sets for that year.) Therefore, transforming a team of Toa (and consequently thinking up a story reason for it) allows Bionicle to keep its characters for more than one year. I think we would all have been upset if the Toa Mata, Toa Metru and Toa Inika had all lasted one year, and then been abandoned for a new team of Toa which the story now had to support. Transforming older Toa in different ways in the only way to retain those characters. LEGO has done this in different ways, with vareity. The Toa Nuva were transformed by energized protodermis into the most powerful Toa. (Yes, despite the Mahri's Cordak blasters, LEGO still acknowledges that weapons do not make a hero.) The Toa Metru were transformed by Visorak venom in Toa Hordika. The Toa Hordika were unpopular because they didn't look like heroes, which was a result of the only time LEGO has done story before sets. The Toa Mahri were transformed by the Mask of Life to work in their new aquatic environment. All of those are reasonable. TO add on to this, sometimes we also need a new Toa team because otherwise people complain, "You just keep transforming these Toa over and over!" I realized in Master of BIONICLE that the Toa Nuva and Toa Inika have already been transformed at least once, so it would probably be best to make a new team of Toa to keep variety. For me, any other hero group was not an option. True, I concede that point. I didn't think about trailers, typically because I don't watch them on television that often. But see, a customer buying one Toa is not going to make the sales that I quote. Customers have to be buying multiple Toa, which means that have built one and like the direction these sets are going. And it's not the Ewoks, it's the lightning from the Emperor's hands! It's just too cool! :-D Well, they always have to twist the story to fit the sets as the sets are the drivers. However, I still believe that decisions were made early on, especially in terms of transformations, that hamper Greg F.'s ability to deviate from the little rut he has carved out for himself. The next question becomes could he bust out of the rut or are story constraints coming from corporate as well telling him to be risk adverse? If he even wanted to could he expand on the definition of 'Toa' to include other champions outside of the mask-wearing elemental power using ex-Matoran? Or is it, hey, This concept of Toa has worked so far and when we tried changing them a bit more (Hordika Hordika Hordika) sales dropped and people complained so stick with the tried and true toa template (say that ten times fast). The quote within the quote is StarWars4J's. Sadly, StarWars4J, that is exactly the case. I wish as much as you that story could come first and sets after, but that is not the way it can work. If story came first, it influences the sets, which is not always a good thing. As Tohst says in his quote above, the Hordika are the only example of story coming before sets. it didn't work. Having sets first allows the designers to put in what they know the audience wants, and then the story can evolve around that. Still, I think the story does manage to remain reasonable and make sense. And yes, they are more worried about sales, because for all the great story in the world, BIONICLE is dead if it has no sales. Tohst, Greg cannot burst out of the story constraints given to him. He explained in a topic on BZP that if he is told that Vezon and Fenrakk need more screen-time due to sales, then he has to give them more screen time and focus in the comics. The only advantage he has over the constraints is that the books he writes more than a year before the sets actually come out, and for those he is only bound to Scholastic, which is more towards books sales than set sales. That is why I love the books; if you read them, you will see that the story is great, despite the terrible appearance it may have in the comics. To tell the truth, when I go back and read the early comics, I find it difficult to enjoy them as much as did back then. Their stories are plot-thin! But they are comics, and they are just there to advance the plot; they serve no other purpose or they wouldn't be free. StarWars4J: How armed a group of heroes is has nothing to do with whether or not they are heroes. And some of them, like Hewkii and Hahli, are just as armored as the old Toa Mata were. Set-wise, yes, they are always visible. But by reading the books and comics you will see that their focus is not main the story. Basically, in Comic 9, the Cordaks are advertised in ONE PANEL! The story focuses more on the Toa's elemental powers and physical attributes, though these Toa of course are not as physically trained as the Toa Mata were. The Cordaks (in terms of the Toa Mahri) serve only one purpose, which is to destroy the Cord. They are very visible since they are in almost every set, but story-wise they do not permeate much more than the Exo-Toa. In fact, only Hewkii, Nuparu, and Hydraxon used the Cordaks in Book 7. Hewkii and Nuparu use them to break a mountain so that giant eels will not eat them, and Hydraxon uses it to try and destroy the Kanohi Ignika. VK

Clonie: Precisely. Let's face it, there are only two reasons why 2001-2003 did not have high-tech. Set-Wise: Because LEGO assumed that low-tech with high-tech sold. They later found out that more high-tech sold better. Story-Wise: Because the high-tech people had lost their memories and were stuck on a low-tech island with no high-tech materials. Furthermore, the Turaga, the only people who still remembered, were not high-tech builders who invented that stuff. Do you know how to invent a computer with nothing but island materials? Lord Admiral: Firstly, it is not shooting blaster-mayhem today. The story is just as good as it ever was. Secodly, you are naturally relating bad story to high-tech. Why? Lastly, Bionicle is in no way generic. Buildable action figures is what made BIONICLE different; they are still buildable, far as i can see. If LEGO decides to make them completely action figures without construction, they I would complain, seeing as LEGO is a brick company. But that is not happening. Tohst: I don't think the story focuses on the weapon, Tohst. Take a look at '07 comics, serials, and books, and you will see that the Cordaks are in no way the main focus of the story. Furthermore, the Matoran are not the main heroes because they don't sell. Making them the main heroes would end BIONICLE fast. Also, people always complain about constant transformation; there was just a topic on BZP saying that there are too many transformations. Now you say you would prefer that the originals be constantly transformed? You know how many fans that agree with a lot of what you say would hate you for that? You seem to think that the Empire Strikes Back had better story than Episode I and Return of the Jedi. Personally, Return of the Jedi remains my favorite STAR WARS. Also, you are referring to movies. You have to remember that box office sellings are sold to people who have not yet seen the movie. Therefore, it is not an accurate judgement of story equating to sales. Better sets with the majority do equate to better sales, as the looks determien whether or not they will be bought. 4J: Actually, it was Brotherhood of Makuta technology. And the Toa Mahri are not advertised as SWAT team or any attack team; they are still advertised as "heroes." And Cordak blasters are not permeating the story any more than the Exo-Toa did. The Exo-Toa "blasters" helped the Toa survive the Bahrag long enough for them to shed the armor and entrap the beasts. The Cordak blasters this year will help the Toa destroy a hollow stone cord. Neither was used to kill enemies, and that will not happen in the future either. And yes, that probably did show that sales improve with higher-tech. EDIT: Here is the continuation from the previous page. VK

StarWars4J: Seems to have worked, as sales after 2003 began to improve. 2005, which is basicaly when this started, was the first year in a long while that LEGO actually MADE money. I think the word "BIONICLE" spoke for itself; I knew what they were. Ah, but let me refer to the Greg Farshtey "island analogy." From a storyline standpoint, it makes perfect sense. The Matoran do have high-tech factories, etc. However, they were taken from that high-tech world, stuck on a primitive island, and stripped of their memories. Thus they learn to live without high-tech. Besides, the original 2001 BIONICLE plan accounted for all this, so it's not like they decided in 2003, "Let's make the whole thing high-tech!" You were referring to old fans. The old fans are gone because they grew up and stopped buying. LEGO realized in 2001 and 2002 that they were targeting the WRONG PEOPLE. There were not enough Rahi or Bahrag fans; most buyers preferred the canister sets. So LEGO adjusted, which was the smart thing to do. And my point is that "deep story' doesn't need guns and blasters, nor does it need swords and shields. A good story is a good story because of the story itself, not what technology it pertains to. What you have is the curse of sets before story. Studies showed that launching weapons such as Kanoka, Rhotuka, Zamors, and Cordaks, were more approved of than collectibles such as masks. Therefore, sets came to possess those weapons instead. And because of that, story needed to follow. You can't just ignore the sets and keep everything low-tech. Besides, I don't find anything wrong with the world being high-tech, because the story is just as good as ever. High-tech or low-tech have nothing to do with good story, unless you are talking about personal taste. I already detailed how the switch was NOT unexplained. But to tell the truth, I don't see your reasoning. LEGO should cater to old fans for integrity? I understand integrity in terms of keeping BIONICLE a building toy, which is what LEGO's whole purpose is built around, but you just don't like certain aspects of what is still a building toy. It is stupid to cater to an audience that is not buying with enough magnitude to keep the line alive. And, yes, it's not about the story; the only thing that matters is selling sets, so if Cordaks and Zamors sell better, then that is what should be done. Furthermore, I fail to see your foundings on why the story is suffering at all. This story is cohesive. I don't know the exact figures; it was in a press release earlier this year. The order was #1 BIONICLE, #2 Star Wars, and #3 Exo-Force. And I know that EB is different from BZP. EB is a more adult audience than BZP. My point is that Greg Farshtey has explained that LEGO does consider BZP (a high majority of which want mask packs back), but that BZP itself is not the majority of their buyers. BZP itself composes of older fans. I have seen a lot of negative topics on BZP, some of which were back in 2003, screaming for a change of location from the island of Mata Nui. So if BZP, which largely does not like a lot of things that sell well, likes the new Toa Nuva for 2008, and the focus groups liked the Nuva for 2008, I think that is a plain sign that maybe LEGO is headed an even better direction, since they are pleasing a largely negative site, while retaining high ratings among focus groups. Nope, I'm immune to commercialism. ;-) "Undersea Heroes," is the ploy for the Toa Mahri, so they are still marketing Toa as heroes, just more high-tech than they used to be. Darth Vader: Prove to me that low-tech makes for a more interseting story than high-tech. It is not like the heroes have gained technology and the villains have lost it. The battles are still tough, the heroes are still challenged. Just like today, I think there are high-tech, modern movies that are just as good, if not better, than low-tech adventures like Lord of the Rings, which is sort of the epitomy of low-tech adventure. Yes there were many direction BIONICLE could have taken at the end of 2003; they took the one that they intended SINCE 2001. The story book accounted for Metru Nui, which introduced the high-tech portion of the BIONICLE world. There is nothing wrong with sci-fi and high-tech. And your "Oh, what fun. Yawn," makes it seem as if your only dislike of sci-fi and high-tech is personal. It isn't my favorite idea of all time, but I don't find it difficult for a biomechanical creature to be altered in some way; the original Rahi were biomechanical and coudl be fitted with infected masks. There had to be some alteration in the figure there, because it would be just as stupid if the Rahi "just happened" to have slots for Makuta to put his infected masks. EDIT: Find continuation on next page. This should get my quotes visible!

That never should have been? Says you. Do you realize how many Technic fans, in 2001, were saying "Technic HUMANOIDS with MASKS and SWORDS? That never should have been!" There is no founding to say that those things never should have been. There are those like that. And there are others who aren't. I've seen loads of Bionicle Going Downhill, and I hate the new sets topics. About half of BZP was negative. Many of them hated the Bohrok-Kal in 2003, and now love them in 2006. It's nostalgia. But, recently, most of BZP is approving the 2007 and 2008 sets, which creates the impression that quality is not an issue here. Tell me where it said in 2001, "This is BIONICLE. Anything that drastically deviates from this year is bad." Settings and stories change. BIONICLE has always been high-tech. Robots? That in itself is high-tech. What I want to know is how robots are less high-tech than zamor launchers or air-compressed blasters. And, yeah, the only reaso they switched to more guns is because little kids can't shoot myth and lore. But why does BIONICLE have to remain myth and lore? Can't it become a deep adventure saga, founded on myth and lore? Can't it have moved on to different things? Must it always remain in the past? The fan who were in it at the beginning are not buying sets anymore. Why should they be catered to? Besides, I don't think those who are complaining here are more numerous than enough fans to create a 10% sales increase. Eurobricks itself doesn't have nearly as many people as BZP (over 30,000 members), and BZP itself is only a mere fraction of the entire fanbase that spurred BIONICLE to LEGO's number one line in 2006. And I was there in 2001. I'm here now. And I love what my favorite theme turned into! ;-) Ikki: The comics reach 1.5 million people in the U.S., last I heard (Granted the U.S., but still 1.5 million) ; that is a lot of people. As far as I know, comics must be the best medium because LEGOs marketing agency is no doubt smart enough to realize their best medium. 10% increase from 2005 to 2006. Top line in 2006. Those are sales, which equates to current BIONICLE being the right direction, not the wrong one. :-D VK

Thanks, guys! I really appreciate it, especially the fact that you do have good taste in spotting winners! ;-) Nah, I'm just kidding. Thank you all! Yeah, it was tough answering those questions. In case you wanted to know, some of my answers you would all have approved of. For instance, I turned down that Sasaki deals in the first one, mainly because I felt that the movie studio creating BIONICLE sets would definitely NOT be a good thing. I know we disagree sometimes Tohst, but I'm glad it's about something as mild as BIONICLE; imagine if we were arguing over the death penalty! :-D (I'm referring to a story where two people argue over the death penalty, and one of them ends up spending fifteen years as a prisoner in order to prove his point, and to win 2 million dollars from the other guy.) If Trexxen IS on here, congrats to him as well! Thanks again! VK

I'm low on time, so I can't comment on too much right now, but: I am not referring to 2004 and 2005; I have always advocated that 2004 and 2005 were lacking because their stories were never finished. I am talking about 2006 and later 2007. What I am saying is that 2001's ending was in MNOLG, which at that time was not the best medium; the best medium at that time and at this time was/is the comics. They are free, they require no interent connection, etc. The books add more to the story, they do not replace the comics. The point is that the comics in 2001 did not tell the ending of the story. The comics in 2003, 2004, and 2005 did not tell the ending of the story. I disapprove of that, I think that the story should be told in the main medium. I could buy the books, but not everyone can. In 2006 we got the ending in the comics, and it appears that this year in 2007 we will also have the story ending in the comics. Now the 1.5 million people who get the comics for free can enjoy the end of the story without having to purchase something or get a internet connection. (Today, the latter is easy, but in 2001 I know for me it was not so easy to get on the internet, as there was no cheap Comcast.) I agree with you, Clonie. If you look at how much excellent story there is compared to 2001, you can see that 2001 cannot be claimed BETTER objectively. Subjectively, I could say that 2003 was the best and prove a million reasons why. I'm not saying 2007 is better by fact, I'm just saying 2001 is not better by fact either. 2007 is perfect; no year in BIONICLE is perfect. As GregF said recently in a topic about wasted characters on BZP, "That is the problem with a storyling that supports sets." He explained that if he is called to promote Vezon and Fenrakk, then Vezon and Fenrakk will have the most screen time in the comic. Storyline promotes sets, not the other around. If it was the other way around, you end up with Toa Hordika. And lastly: But I like the new sets better than the old ones. Many people on BZP (a fanbase known throughout LEGO for its harsh criticisms. Yes, it's nothing compared to yours, but still) like the newer style of sets. Sales have increased. Typically, people do not buy low-quality things. If there is a coffee cup company and their coffee cups always break, they could be considered low-quality. And people will not buy them. Now, while little kids like <insert that tiresome argument> pieces, LEGO's sales have increased over the last few years ever since they moved AWAY from juniorization. That tells you something. The years you refer to were pre-2005, years when LEGO was losing money. Maybe juniorization had something to do with that. All I know is that 10% sales increase, combined with general approval by BZP (who typically have a lot of nostalgia) and my own approval (and I am NOT for juniorization, I love the old Bahrag and all that) seem to point to this being the right direction, not the wrong one. Magic and unknown feelings, gods and demons, swords and unknown island do not make a good story. I've read plenty of great books and stories that do not have the above mentioned. Furthermore, as Clonie stated, you are vastly exxagerating 2007 to make your own point. I could do the same to 2001 or even the famous Harry Potter. And why should they cater to the adults? Adults don't buy the sets, the kids do. 8-10 year-olds do. Spending a bunch of money to revert to the Technic style of 2001 that didn't sell just to please people like you and me is just plain stupid. I'm sorry to have to say it, but it is. The story now is FAR deeper than it was in 2001; it deals with many issues, like whether a Toa should kill or not, how Matoran can try and deal with villains themselves, it still deals with brave Matoran like 2001, Matoran like Gar, Idris, Sarda, etc. Greg Farshtey himself IS taking steps to create a story that will appeal to older fans, but he cannot abandon the main buyers entirely and cater only to us. It has to be a mix, or nothing at all. And you CANNOT relate the tastes between what an adult wants and what a child wants to quality. LEGO is making money; why should they end BIONICLE? Because YOU think its quality is failing? I don't think it is, many on BZP and here dont' think it is, and enough fans to account for a 10% sales increase don't think it is. And don't wish for the death of BIONICLE in front of me! Don't kill my story! j/k. :-D VK And yeah, I know, I just can't get over that 10% sales increase. ;-) EDIT: Gee, did I just say I couldn't comment much? See what the interent does to us!

My saying that 2007 was the best was purely opinion and joke; I merely forgot the laugh out loud icon. My argument that 2001 was not the best is less based on my opinion. I myself still like 2001 as one of the tops. I am not arguing that it is the worst, simply that it is impossible to call it the best. It is factually true. Let's say I make a ceramic pot line. My first ceramic pot is disfigured and it doesn't work; it blows up on the stove. Still, it looks old-fashioned. Then, a few years later, I make a new ceramic pot. It is not disfigured and it works better, but its style is more modern. You can't say that the modern style is better than the old-fashioned style. You can say that the new pot is better than the old one. (Yeah, exagerated analogy, but you see my point.) The Inika have way more poseability than the old Mata, and they still have functions. Therefore, there is only improvement there. Style is opinion; functionality is fact. What I'm basically trying to say is that you can't say that BIONICLE has gone in the wrong direction or that 2001 was the best. I'm not bashing 2001, but you can't seriously say it was the best. I'm not seriously that heated about this stuff; I simply like making my arguments and trying to be persuasive. Additionally, experience is always a plus in composition class when you're asked to write a persuasive essay or argument. :-D Don't we all, really? It's not like BIONICLE affects our life tremendously; it's a toy line. If we rant and argue about it, then we'd better like doing so, or we're simply wasting our time. What really bugs me is all the complaint topics on BZP. Aye aye aye. Sure is! :-) VK

Very well said, Cabby. I forgot to include that in my post above yours. Yes, typically kids don't have buying strategies. I typically plan out my year ahead, like you guys, but that is probably unusual for most LEGO consumers. They just go to the store or online, say, "this is cool!" and don't think about the future of the theme from which they have just purchased a set. VK

I tend not to pay attention the top 25 list on Lego.com. It doesn't include store sales. But according to LEGO's press release for 2006 results BIONICLE was its number one theme, with a 10% sales increase over 2005. So it is selling. Hinckley, I think that retailers tend not to like too many long-standing themes. I may be wrong, but that is what it seems like to me. If you look back in the old days, LEGO never had a castle faction for more than one year. This Aqua Raiders and MarsMission thing isn't a new concept. Joebot, I think LEGO might renew the StarWars liscence if possible. And BIONICLE is going into its eighth year, with 2009 already in plan and production, so it doesn't seem to be dying. If the BIONICLE team continues with the successful direction they have been going in, it should last longer. I hear that BIONICLE is making it possible to gain a lot more new fans in 2009, so we will see if it dies out. I'm not counting it out yet. ;-) I do like it. It lets LEGO get rid of bad themes that don't sell, and keep good themes that do. Themes such as Knight's Kingdom and Exo-Force that last for basically three years aren't as good, because the last year they sort of lack ideas. Castle 2008 seems to be nice, though. Themes like VIkings, Aqua Raiders, and Mars Mission are well designed, although I am not a fan of Mars Mission myself; I just don't buy those types of sets. I think this strategy is a good one, as LEGO has slowly increased sales since 2005. Oh, and I agree that the Pick-A-Brick store and LEGO Factory period were excellent ideas! As one NewYorkTimes article said, "LEGO has turned their fanbase into an army of designers." lol! :-D VK

*Slaps Hands* Here goes: Grievous, is that a question? 2007 is the best BIONICLE year ever! How could you even consider 2001? Let us not compare, but observe... 2001 marked the beginning of BIONICLE, and the beginning of something amazing, innovative, and new. Since 2001 was the first year, all of us (myself included) feel nostalgia towards it and are drawn towards thinking it the best year. I feel the same way about Harry Potter and The Lord of the Rings. Harry Potter 4 I think was the best book, but I cannot help but consider Harry Potter 1 as the best because it was the first. I think the Return of the King was the best movie, but I cannot help but consider Fellowship as the best because it was the first! Nostalgia affects us, whether we like it or not. But 2001 was seriously not that great! For one, the year has no apparent ending other than MNOLG. What about the people that don't have internet? (I didn't!) Or those who can't access Bionicle.com? They are completely lost in story, and let's face it, the comics were and always have been paper thin. They're a mere twelve pages, but what do you want? They're free. It is impossible to say that the comic story in 2001 was any better than it is now. In reality, 2006 and 2007 have better comic stories, because they actually tell the end of the story. The last comic in 2006 told us how the INika got the Ignika, and then how they lost it beneath the sea. 2001? "Let Makuta tremble this day, the Toa stand together!" Then the next year, they've already defeated Makuta. For me, who had no internet access, I was standing there, saying, "what happened? We don't actually see them face the bad guy?" (Yeah, I was 9 then.) MNOLG was great. Who can deny that? It had good story, good character, and some neat flash battles. But, like the books, it was only there for those who could access it. Furthermore, if we look, it focuses on the Matoran, who do not sell as well as the Toa. Therefore, we can't really expect something like MNOLG; it wouldn't get LEGO profit, so it wouldn't be done. I disagree with you, Grievous, in that the personalities were stereotypical. Pohatu was always the friendliest of Toa, and stone to me does not signify friendliness. While Kopaka was cold, Tahu was heated, etc. those personalities were, as Darth Vader says, new for the beginning of the franchise. I think that is why LEGO has recently shied away from them. Nuparu is more outgoing than Onua, Jaller is less heated than Tahu, Matoro is not as cold as Kopaka, etc. As Matoran, they were never like their Toa counterparts, and as Toa Inika, they have been kept different than their Toa counterparts. Only Kongu has changed somewhat, and that was already explained in Bionicle Legends #7. Continuing, we go to sets. The bodies of the Toa were just as one-piece as the Piraka bodies. The gear thing comes down to taste entirely. I like gears and functions, but I also like poseability. I wish LEGO could find a way to incorporate the two. They seem to be heading that direction with the trap that came with Karzahni and Lesovikk's sea sled, so hopefully they can continue the recent trend. But let's face it; the gears severely limited poseability. To say that the original Toa even COMPARE with recent Toa is a fallacy. The only thing the original Toa have that is remotely as good as recent years is their masks. (Not including gears.) They have no poseable heads. They have only two points of leg articulation, and some of their hands have only one point of shoulder articulation and the gear. Sets nowadays have over thirteen points of articulation. While the style of Tahu and Co. is a good style, it can only be considered better in terms of taste. Do you prefer the ancient warrior-style of the Mata, or the more sleek, streamlined style of the Inika? One cannot rightly say that the Inika STYLE is better than the Mata STYLE. But one CAN rightly say that the Inika are better than the Mata. You can argue against rubber masks, and I would agree that I prefer original-style masks, but LEGO has gone back to that in 2007. I disagree wholehartedly with you, Darth Vader, when you say that the expansion of the universe was a bad thing. For three years BIONICLE was on the island of Mata Nui, and many people on BZP were furious at the way the story was beginning to repeat itself. They wanted answers to mysteries. You cannot have a story full of mysteries and then not answer any of them. It becomes boring after too long. Metru Nui was a change, but the story was still not expanded. We had a new location, new Matoran and a new world, but we still knew next-to-nothing. And surely enough, BIONICLE's sales were still going downhill. The trend started in 2003 I believe. Then came 2005 and the expansion you speak so horribly of. Brotherhood of Makuta, Keetongu, Rahaga, other islands, Roodaka, Sidorak, Voporak, Dark Hunters, Visorak, etc. Guess what? Sales went UP. The trend continued in 2006, and sales rose 10%, boosting BIONICLE back to its number one status of all LEGO's themes. And you say this was a bad thing? An expanded media is not bad. The books are excellent series books, and the story is thick and exciting. There are interesting characters, and many of them are far more diverse than the characters in 2001. You argue that the books reduced the comics; not so, the comics are the same size and tell the same amount of story that they always did. MNOLG served the same purpose as the books, except it focused on Matoran that did not sell. And how does more mystery mean greater story arcs? You have to reveal mysteries, otherwise you end up with LOST: too many mysteries with too little answers. (I do not watch the show, but those are the main complaints I have heard about it.) Mysteries have to be answered, and there are still many unanswered mysteries. The media expansions now coverse online, books, and comcis, all of which tell tales. There is so much more story info out there now than there was in 2001. In 2001, the only story was three comics and MNOLG. Now we have web serials, books, and comics. Comics tell the main story for free, and actually finish the story (This has only happened in 2002, 2006, and 2007.) And the books tell additional story and can bring back old characters and tie up loose ends. Lt. Col. Thok: Animations made BIONICLE good? Animations are neat, yes, but I think the books, great story and plot, and expanded universe make BIONICLE far better now than it ever was in 2001. Lame? How does more story and better sets equal lame? Because there is no MNOLG? Lately, on here and BZP, people keep talking about that game as if it was the only thing that made BIONICLE good. I'm getting tired of it. Seriously, it was good, but it was not THAT great that BIONICLE without it becomes lame. StarWars4J I like swords and shields better than Zamors and Cordak Blasters, but I still like Zamors and Cordak blasters. Furthermore, characters still have swords. BIONICLE has always been biomechanical; it isn't a Castle theme. It IS modern. Furthermore, I have no idea what mystical has to do with modern weapons. They have absolutely no connection. You can have mystery and still be modern. Look at StarWars. BIONICLE still has mystery, and now it has more modern projectiles, since that is what its target audience seems to want. Most importantly, this is not a direction they should have gone in? So, a 10% sales increase from 2005 is not a direction they should have gone in. Keeping BIONICLE number one and outdoing 2001 in sets and story is not a direction they should have gone in. Expanding into a universe that was planned SINCE 2001 is not a direction they should have gone in. They should have abandoned the entire 7 books of BIONICLE and stuck only with Mata Nui. They should have ignored all focus groups and sales studies, and kept old-fashioned weapons despite the fact that most of their audience wanted modern projectiles. They should have not made books and stuck with MNOLG after MNOLG after MNOLG, and kept hte story focused on Matoran even though Matoran do not sell half as well as Toa. If they did not go in this direction, BIONICLE would be DEAD. Stone, cold DEAD. Gylman: The story was fresh not because it was a good story, but because the concept of BIONICLE as a whole was fresh. The story today is still fresh, it just isn't the first year so it doesn't seem as new. And there are still lots of mysteries. They just didn't keep us in the dark on an island knowing nothing about what in the world was going on. They just didn't abandon the rest of the story planned prior to 2001. The Bahrag did have the best build of any BIONICLE, but that does not mean they are better sets. I like build as much as the next guy, but poseability is important here too. The Bahrag were $60. They didn't sell. You can't release a 20 dollar Titan with the same poseability as a 60 dollar Bahrag. You have to abandon the hundreds of small pieces and technic style and go with what works. Let's face it; the Rahi didn't sell because Technic fans felt the same way about BIONICLE as you all feel now about 2007 compared to 2001. And come on. The Bohrok, the best canister sets ever? Maybe in the style you like, but if LEGO released a Bohrok wave now they would be out of business. BIONICLE has far improved over the low poseability and low stature of the Bohrok. I like the Bohrok, yes; I still use them. But to say that they are the best and say it as a fact does not hold with me, nor with business. And more recent years do rate. 2006 for sure rates BETTER. 10% sales increase, people! 10%. I don't think 2001 had a 10% sales increase over Technic. My final Conclusion: 2001 was a great year because it introduced classic Toa Mata and Makuta and because it was the first year. It had a lot of great stuff, none of which can be denied. Comics and MNOLG had a great, mysterious feel. The sets were something new and amazing. But it was not the best year. 2006 is better. 2007 is a lot better. 2007 even tops 2006 in my book, but that remains to be seen with sales. Sets now are better. Story now is better. Multiple media platforms is a good thing. LEGO has gone in the right direction. All that you see now was already prepared in 2001; there were seven books of BIONICLE, and this current story arc was planned for. We are seeing what was devised prior to BIONICLE's first year. This is not something completely new. What is new is the expanded universe, which is a good thing. Good sales means good direction. In 2005 and 2006 we had good sales. That means BIONICLE has gone in the right direction. The BIONICLE team has studied their market business. They determined that Rahi and large technic sets did not sell. So they ditched them. I liked their build, I like big builds. But I also like the new direction. For me, it isn't one or the other. For many BIONICLE fans, it isn't one or the other. 2001 was a great year, but it was not the best. BIONICLE has lasted 7 years. If it had gone in the wrong direction, or if it was not as good as 2001 or better, then it would not have lasted 7 years. It would not be making profit. But it is. And that is how I will end my argument. VK P.S. I hope I do not sound inconsiderate of your opinions. You can hold whatever opinions you like, and I'm not bashing you for it. I am just trying to sway your opinions. :-) Gee, long post!

I think, in the overall, LEGO is going towards another golden age. I really enjoy the new sets we get, and LEGO seems to be going more and more modular, instead of using large base plates like they started using in the late 1990s and early twenty-first century. I am loving the design of the new Castle line; I was not a fan of the original Knight's Kingdom (2004) sets, but I started noticing the improving castle with the 2005 Vladek Battle Theme. And now this new Castle line is very, very good. We get factions, plenty of war-weapons, and no useless castles! Although I don't collect City, I like the new airplanes, but not the new police plane; I think they should have used a smaller body, not the plane pieces they use for the Cargo Plane and Passenger Plane. City nowadays is a huge improvement from the old days of LEGO World City. Those sets were not very good at all. MarsMission is not of my taste, so I haven't gotten any, but I can see the appeal and nice design of the sets, with the exception of the aliens that do not move. I think the sets are very well designed, and I really like those neat missiles, though they haven't much use outside MarsMission. Although some 2008 themes don't seem that good to me (I am not an Indy fan, and the 2008 Exo-Force don't look as good as the 2006/2007 ones), I think that LEGO as a whole is continually improving and this is being more noticed here on Eurobricks because they are starting to throw in AFOL sets here and there, such as the Hobby Train, Cafe Corner, Market Street, and next year the Town Plan, for one. I really like the direction LEGO is headed. And fortunately, BIONICLE is still the best theme they have out there; this is excellent for me, as I collect BIONICLE. The new Phantoka look amazing, and the design of the Toa Ignika "board" is superb. I can barely wait to see the new Titans. Snefroe, you are incorrect. Personally, I don't see how BIONICLE is repeating itself, it seems to be getting better and better. Also, it's popularity is NOT going down. Here on Eurobricks it may be, perhaps, but last year BIONICLE returned as LEGO's #1 Theme, and its sales improved 10% over BIONICLE 2005. So it is anything but going down in both quality and popularity. And LEGO's commercializing is nothing new, snefroe. Some sets are available at only TRU or only Wal-Mart or only SAH because they are promotional sets. Firstly, it increases anticipation and collectibility of the set (only here? It must be rare!) Secondly, stores such as TRU and Wal-Mart are tempted to buy more LEGO if they are offered a set they only THEY can sell, besides LEGO themselves. It is just business, snefroe, and I don't think it is more common with LEGO than with anybody else. So, overall, LEGO is improving in both construction (interesting builds) and completion (finished result). That is what I think matters, and I am very pleased that they are finally recognizing the value of the minifigure! VK

2006 saved BIONICLE. Period. To elaborate: Since 2003 BIONICLE and LEGO's sales as a whole were down. I personally liked 2003, however; the Rahkshi were by far the best canister sets to that date, and the Makuta and Takanuva sets were marvelous. Although I liked 2004 and 2005, the story began to lack; the movies caused the split years, and the Toa Hordika sets were not heroic enough for my taste; I would have preferred strong, tall, beastlike Toa, rather than hunchbacks that looked evil. The Visorak were good sets though. The Vahki, I think, suffered though; they had Toa Metru limbs without armor and old-style arms! We didn't even have the endings in the comics, and the movie books had no choice but to suffer from the script-writer's decisions. Because of that, the story seemed very cliche. Only the other books in the year, such as Web of the Visorak, Challenge of the Hordika, and my all-time favorite Time Trap, saved 2005. So 2006 brought back original story, COMPLETED story, and way more poseable, larger sets. I actually like the new Piraka and Inika bodies; they provide more poseability and I don't see them being as bulky as some people do on here and BZP. The story and sets were great; I loved the Piraka and Matoran characters, I liked Axonn and the Toa Inika. I just loved the characters of Brutaka and Vezon. I don't see the Inika as losing personality; as Matoran they had little to no personality anyway. If anything, the Toa Inika had more personality than their Matoran counterparts. I just see them as less-eccentric versions of the Toa Nuva. So, in the end, I think 2006 was a great year and paved the way for 2007, which is IMO the best year BIONICLE has had so far. (2001 may have been better only since it was the first.) Some of my favorite sets came out in 2006, as well, like Brutaka, Axonn, Vezon and Fenrakk, and Vezon and Kardas! VK

Um, ignoring the whole woodchuck deal: To answer the question, can i defend this one? Uh, yes, I can. 1. LEGO has released multiple versions of--things--like this over the year. They are promotional items that I don't think are made by LEGO in place of LEGO sets. If they did not make LEGO money, then LEGO would not continue to make them. Perhaps not much money, but I gather that LEGO does not have much to lose by selling them. So they make money. 2. I see no reason to buy it. So I don't. Why should this offend any of you? It's not like they're replacing LEGOs with this. They just released this to make a few extra bucks, for the little ones that may actually like it. So if it makes LEGO money, and it doesn't take away from LEGOs, why should we complain about it? The way I see, if releasing stuff like this will help keep LEGO alive, then I'm all for it! I'm not being forced to buy it, and it's not replacing any LEGO sets, it just helps if even in the smallest manner. LEGO can keep making LEGOs because they are making MONEY. Everybody does things like this; I don't see why many of you make such a big deal over things like this. They're PROMOTIONS. They don't actually change the way LEGO thinks or does business; they are to MAKE MONEY. That's the whole point of LEGO's existence. VK

Going back to DV, my market points are not invalid, simply because they are not my market points. They are market points that have been stated multiple times by TLG and Greg Farshtey as to why they have not released the Toa Nuva in 06 or sooner than this coming year. As Tohst said, they are indeed up to interpretation, but they are not invalid points. I don't claim to be a professions marketer or anything like that, I am simply repeating what has been The LEGO Group's official statements on the subject of re-releasing the Nuva. I simply assume this is why they may not look exactly like the originals. I don't really find the recent Toa that skinny; they seem to be evenly distributed, if you ask me. I remember Kongu Inika was relatively skinny, but Matoro Inika and Pohatu Nuva and Lewa Nuva don't seem that skinny to me. I do wish the Matoran had more build to them, but I admit that they still look very neat, and the unique masks is a definite plus! Clonie, I actually found that 2004 and 2005 sufferered a bit, due to the movies. I saw 2006 as the return of a mysterious and innovative BIONICLE. The movies in 2004-2005 really caused the storyline to suffer, as the whole year just built up to one movie, and basically the earlier portions of the year were pointless, and the story of BIONICLE was tied to the moviemakers, not those who actually work for LEGO and have been with BIONICLE since its conception. 2007 I think has been the best year since 2001. I look forward to seeing how 2008 will compare, with story and sets. And I think we all feel more partial to the sets once they come out. Seeing the real official pictures of a set is far more influential than leaked pics. I feel this myself, as sets always seem to grow on me as time goes by. It could just the type of fan we are, Clonie. :-D VK

I also think it is mostly personal preference; that is the point I often try to make. My point here, though, is that they put an eyepiece. They could have ignored an eyepiece like they did with Matoro. They could have not given Kopaka an eyepiece at all. But they did. That is a callback; its lack of obviousness does not take away from its existence. Yes, white and grey can be any ice Toa. My points were directed to DV, who complained that the Toa Nuva should have kept original colors. I was showing him how they DID keep original colors. Besides, Kopaka's new mask looks neither like his Akaku Nuva nor Nuju's Matatu. But they did put an eyepiece, something they could simply have ignored. You're wanting more than that doesn't take away from the fact that they did do something they could have ignored. VK