Toastie

You are very welcome! These SDS sheets always imply that the end is near ;) BTW: Large LD50 numbers mean that the poor mice had to swallow >a lot< before they died. Butanone, as well as acetone, are really sort of safe "household" solvents. When it comes to flammability, gasoline, that we put into our cars every so often, is in the same ballpark. With regard to toxicity, gasoline is much worse than MEK and actually is a carcinogenic formulation (mixture). It is always the same: Things we are used to, and we learned to handle, can be as bad as imaginable, but we are fine. Just a three-letter abbreviation as MEK does ring so many alarm bells, because that stuff is mostly "unknown". Folks in a chemical lab are really happy when MEK does the job as solvent, because it is so "friendly". There are so many way worse solvents ... (yes, I am a chemist) In conclusion: It is really safe and smart using MEK as a means to permanently attach LEGO bricks. Just make sure there is sufficient ventilation to prevent for fires. And don't inhale or drink too much of it. All the best Thorsten

Methly ethyl ketone or butanone is hazardous, but not because it is causing cancer. Here is what Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanone. There is also a link to the safety data sheet (SDS). The last SDS revision in the EU is from December 2025. Even the LD50 numbers are rather high. However, it is >highly< flammable. So what people try to do with "venting" is diluting any MEK vapors to the extent that a) the explosive region is not reached, b) preventing any sparks to fire up the air (does not always need an explosion to cause damage), c) people who are working with it don't irritate their eyes etc., it is also toxic upon inhalation, however, virtually all chemical compounds with such a high vapor pressure as that of MEK are. Here is an interesting "article" of a US chemicals supplier (Alliance Chemical) talking about how to "glue" LEGO bricks together and why it works: https://alliancechemical.com/blogs/articles/beyond-the-basics-using-mek-as-a-lego-glue-for-permanent-structures? There is also a short version of the SDS for MEK attached at the end. Best Thorsten

I could not agree more. However, the good design judgment of the individual listening to the parts speaking, is governed by the individual's willingness or capability to let imagination, transfer thoughts, extrapolation, memory (...) run freely, without limits. Best Thorsten

Mine as well! Nothing to hide, in contrast. Best Thorsten

Thank you very much @Gunners TekZone! It will take some time for me plowing through the (to me) unknown Apple hardware - but what is time! I love these chips. And others may be way more educated to come up with ideas, proposals, solutions. For sure: You can make it way less sophisticated, as said. On the other hand: You absolutely don't need an Apple or IBM PC/XT to control 9750. A ZX81 - the totally el cheapo Zeddy - is well suited to do so, with a little help from (again) dead cheap ancient TTL chips. Not the point: This thread is not about saving here and there, it is about making it work. If someone figures out how to connect a Cray X-MP to 9570: It is >totally< relevant to this thread! And most probably, I will faint. It is just fantasizing about what >could< possibly work, regardless of the approach. @evank will judge and approve or not, just for locking anything appropriate into his (wonderful!) website. How cool is that. But here on EB: Just go nuts. All the best Thorsten

BUT This IS a totally relevant post to this thread!!! Sure you can use them for much more sophisticated stuff, but, also for talking/listening to Interface A! This thread is not about what can be done cheaper or less demanding, it is about what devices can interface to 9750! Your cards can do much more, but hey, I am absolutely sure that the chippies on these cards would be so happy when running 4.5V Technic machines. Is there a chance that you repost the card pictures? I have no idea how the Apple works on its inside, but I saw (but did not take screenshots, when I was preparing for a nice, 3 beers night diving into Apple ][ hardware) the photographs, all the chippies, I am familiar with ... of course these cards will do, I thought, but then - gone ... Man, I am using the I/O port of an Atari 1040 to talk to 9570. Believe it or not, I can hear some sort of "snickering", when it does. A friendly sound, though. This thread is about just doing or envisioning it. Best Thorsten

Huh? I am confused. If you want to know the dimensions of a LEGO thing in studs - isn't the diameter of a "stud" more or less irrelevant, but the center distance of two such studs (or the stud pitch) is? I thought this is the LEGO universe universal constant: 8 mm ideal stud center distance. Which of course implies that the diameter of such a stud needs to be less than that. The brick, precisely the 1xX bricks, are (ideally) 8 mm wide (which they really aren't, as reality needs tiny space to separate them again). And a stud is a stud, isn't it? In studless world, there are no studs, otherwise it would be studful. In studful world, we pop the holes - some call anti studs ^^ onto these (ideally) 5 mm (but in reality about 4.8 mm) diameter studs, don't we? The only real constant here seems to be the studful LEGO stud pitch - which should be more or less exactly 8 mm. So is the studless Technic hole pitch. Best Thorsten

Oh nice!!! I love rectification of this kind! Thank you very much, Evan! All the best Thorsten

I completely agree with you - with everything you wrote! Yes, let us continue to voice our enthusiasm and appreciation for what has been accomplished by TLG in the past. And show what (still) can be done with these fantastic educational materials. All the best and have a very nice day! Thorsten

This is absolutely true. However, I am not so sure about the last bit. Whenever we were asking TLG about historic software (apparently, the inquiries went all the way up to The Archives in Billund), in the end their reply was: Not to be found or not possible to disclose anything due to IP infringements. Well, this was about software(s) introduced 35+ years ago ... Could be that their archives suck, could be that their contracts are legal monsters. Besides the added value for the history, I also find it highly educating to study any >principle< progress that has been made over the decades. That is true for virtually everything, but I like to reflect from time to time real progress and not the change of color or communications protocols. Sure, new powerful hard- and software may do things unheard of every time they are introduced. But one has to tell them to actually do so. In the educational line of "robotics", having been limited for some decades to 2-3 sensor inputs or 3-5 actuator outputs (except for Interface B) without cascading the controlling devices, some repetitive elements are clearly observable. Line followers is only one. Furthermore, it is certainly true that schools and other institutions of education should be on top of the high-tech-game. However, the repetitive introduction of follow-up technology, being incompatible with its predecessors, seems also to be a nice way of increasing revenue at increasing pace. In addition, teaching folks need also be a) able and b) willing to teach the ever evolving advancement in technology. It is not only playing with old stuff from a historical perspective - it is purely fascinating to realize again and again, what can be accomplished with this old stuff, when used properly and with some skill. All the little hardware tricks and the software tweaks enabled many cool features - decades ago. Whether one sends data through a wire or through the air, be it IR, BT, BLE - in the end data need to be sent, and understood or interpreted at the other end and vice versa. Yes, today everything is high-res, multicolor, superfast, and totally awesome - but when you've built a LEGO model equipped with some sensors and some motors, 5GHz CPU clock rates are hardly necessary. Color sensing, fine, recognition of the user using an iris scan, fine, but your LEGO model will respond by moving something or making sounds. That sound could be a "beep" - as it was decades ago, or a super-nicely modulated sound from outer worlds as it is today; it remains a simple response, though. I am also aware of all the gurus out there, really bringing new technology introduced by TLG to the highest levels of sophistication. But we are talking education here, classroom action, performed with plastic bricks that have become more diverse, but the central idea of holding them together, as well as sensing and actuating, is 3 ... 4 decades old. I am not saying that today's students need to listen to beeps, because we did (in addition to all the limitation we had to live with ), no, I am talking about me, trying to get something across as a teacher. Getting to the heart and principle of the process by moving away all the decoration making it look good, no, look >awesome<. All the best, Thorsten

Hi Alex, in inner BASIC circles, that obscurity is also called "IP protection" . I grew up with “programming” BASIC on a Sinclair ZX81, and then (for years due to budget limitations) on a ZX Spectrum. Commands were exclusively tokens, the rubber (mat) keys represented >multiple< "commands" and graphic symbols, I was PEEKing and POKEing everywhere, moved RAMTOP around to make space for bytes some call "assembly", no line indenting, nested GOSUBs and so on and so forth. The dirtiest of dirty coding - but it sometimes worked. That will be quite the C64 experience. Others visit amusement parks, I take the C64 BASIC roller coaster - for free. I guess it is some rare variety of electro-masochism - but I'm actually looking forward to poking around on that 8-bit number cruncher. All the best Thorsten

Thank you, Alex. Appreciate your reply very much! Still did not make it into Lines, but that will happen soon. I shall also try out @maehw's GitHub code! I am also assembling all the Archive Lines images. I was asking, because I am planning to explore the C64's BASIC a bit more. Setting it up in my attic right now. Got another Interface A, as well as the C64's user port plug. Shall make the cable, and then try out "coding" (typing in BASIC lines is generally not regarded as coding, but "I don't care, I love it") an interface program, as I did for my DOS machines and the Atari 1040. Three more years, and I will be 100% on all this :D All the best Thorsten

Oh, that is a nice read! Thank you very much @amine! It works as the DOS Wasm X browser based emulator. I shall clear up my code, will also put the latest versions on Bricksafe. That may take a little time as I am rather busy these days, the winter semester comes to an end, which means !examania! As I have my C64 back to life (it was the boldly soldered in PLA ... it was a pain the a*s to get bugger out - ripped one trace off the ground and ruined a couple of vias, but works) - I have a quick question, I bet you, @evank, or @alexGS know right off the bat: I there a TC Logo version for the C64? Or is it "just" LEGO Lines? Best Thorsten

If the archive DOS emulator works as on the DOS Wasm X online emulator, it should work fine. As I said, in 9750 SIM mode nothing is sent anywhere, but the lill' virtual LEDs will go on/off as well as the direction is shown. I can certainly assemble a ZIP file containing all my latest programs (9750, 9751, 8485). I would probably need some explanations, but I can write something up as well. Best Thorsten

Yes, but using that code GitHub, you'll need to build and compile the server on a Linux machine. Best Thorsten

OK, I currently do not know what it's worth, as I am on a business trip ^^ and can't check any further. I just made a ZIP file of my entire QBasic directory with all Qbasic files in sub folders residing on my laptop's HD, including the QBasic.EXE, .HLP, and .INI files. Opened the above referenced website (neilb.net/doswasmx/) and dragged the about 1.2MByte long ZIP file into the little window, that says ... drag files here. It makes Zzzip, then a DOS window appears in the browser and I can start QBasic. There is nothing much about that, as you can do that on the Archive as well, at least this is what I believe. I ran my QBasic control programs for 9750 and 9751 in SIM mode (as I don't have my LEGO stuff with me ;) and all seems going well. Tomorrow I shall try getting access to the serial port - no clue whether that works or not. The thing is: The source code for this web-DOS-thingy is also on GitHub and programming gurus can build their own web-server from scratch ... I certainly cannot . Best Thorsten

I believe on Windows machines and using a browser for HW control, Windows with its directives is in your way. There are means of circumventing that, see post above, but I'm out on that stuff, I am a DOS person. When locally running a DOS emulator, just make sure you are using DOSBox-X. I have Bluetooth2Serial (BL2Ser) adapters on my Interface A, Interface B, and on my pimped ControlCenter II (I made a serial port for that one). They are all controlled from my Dell laptop using its internal Bluetooth radio - in "parallel". All I do is pair the BL2Ser adapters with my laptop, and then change the COM port Windows gave them to meaningful ports (that's just me). Then I open 3 DOSBox-X instances with their individual config files from a Windows console batch file: @echo off start dosbox-x.exe -conf 8485.conf start dosbox-x.exe -conf 9750.conf start dosbox-x.exe -conf 9751.conf exit Each config file configures the Windows COM port of the individual BT2Ser adapter as DOSBox-X COM1 or 2 port. The last lines of the DOSBox-X config file are (individual QBasic programs for each interface): mount C C:\_DOSBox-X\ c: cd qb11 qbasic /run Q9771\Q9771_3.BAS 3 DOSBox-X windows open, "autostart" QBasic, which in turn autostart my individual BASIC control programs for the 3 interfaces. And then I can play with all three interfaces; even in this configuration, DOSBox-X handles the "data bombardment" from Interface B ;) All this works nicely, but how to access HW from a web browser is >way< above my head ... But maybe someone else know how to do that? All the best Thorsten

I was afraid of that - however, there are the emulators "DOS Wasm X" (neilb.net/doswasmx/) and "js-dos" (caiiiycuk/js-dos on GitHub ), which are apparently based on DOSBox-X (which in turn very nicely allows access to the computer hardware), and both run in a web browser ... Well, Google's AI told me that, I have never tried, nor did/do I know anything about it. Best Thorsten

WOW! Nice ... Hmm - I would need to configure DOSBOX first, i.e., which COM port on my laptop (=USB port) is declared as "serial1" in DOSBOX. Is there a way of configuring DOSBOX on the archive? Best Thorsten

Everything you wrote is really a very nice read, I am enjoying this conversation very much! Being a university professor myself, I have mixed feelings about COVID having "changed things". My take is that COVID has amplified "changing things", on many scales and levels. And that, just because one species on this planet was under or much better, felt being under existential pressure. The changes in this world are occurring every second - and nothing can survive without adapting to change. Rocks degrade or adjust to external "pressure", but that's it. In essence, they degrade. Living beings have to adjust to their ever-changing environment(s), all the time, or they'll be not of future importance anymore. Timescales matter, of course. And yes, I know that everyone knows that. In this context, we have the opportunity of looking back on a data set, generations of LEGO users, "changing" with time, have produced. The LEGO product though, or better, the idea of the product, remains the same, throughout the decades: Be creative, build something. The motivations for building something are manyfold: Creativity needing a pressure valve; it may also be: LEGO has a history of being legendary, I never really made it, so now is my time. Why "build" a Nintendo, camera, typewriter, and so on, more or less accurately replicated with LEGOs? (Yes, I know, don't use the s - I simply don't care, I mean the bricks), when one can get the actual thing for less money? Because it's cool to do so. This coolness, though, is only really cool, when you find LEGO cool and when you ever had the chance to buy LEGO at the level of making cool things. LEGO was always expensive, and now it has truly become a rich men's world product. So, the question of getting the real thing for $200 or the LEGO thing for +$500 does not matter. The real thing is of no interest, the replicated LEGO thing on a shelf is, and yes, I built it myself. It looks so real ... (or better, surreal). I have the feeling that TLG is burning the midnight oil. And that can burn for a >very< long time. With all the improvements in electronics, their top-notch educational line of "bricks" is still - following lines. As they did when there were minds before the storms. More accurate, of course, but I would even challenge that with running my RCX 1.0 with RobotC as firmware. All the best Thorsten

Hi @legoROBOLAB! That is a very nice blog, just had a look. Also, very interesting to hearing about your friend in Sweden! Is there a chance, that your friend has some more information about LEGO Interface A coupled to a Compis school computer back in the days? Must be around 1986-1988. The Compis machines were beautiful machines, but unfortunately a) a bit late to the game and b) used the 80186 CPU - which was a rather special chip, which did not make t much into other machines. It ran CPM-86, could also boot into DOS (that is what I understood so far). There is a dedicated LEGO Lines version for CPM-86/the Compis machine, which is in the hands of another person in Sweden, I am in contact with. Does your friend by any chance have access to a Swedish Compis computer? Or knows somebody who has? Very interesting! All the best Thorsten

Hello @Napoleon3 and welcome to EB! Absolutely - 32 is a very nice number. And so much more: 32 years of life experience! Ha, nothing wrong with a Swiss accent! These are very pleasant people - I love the country. More than a decade ago, one of my former PhD students got a job in Thun - and got a Swiss passport some years later. When we lived for some years in the US, one Chem1A student said, I sound like someone from Australia. Well, coming from remote Northern Germany, that sounded cool to me :D More importantly: Accent or not, with or without using hands, feet, the entire body: Just do it. Nothing better than people interacting with each other. Have fun around here! Best wishes Thorsten

Holy cow!!! Is this the successor of the LEGO Lines software for the Swedish Compis computer? And it runs on a Windows machine, right? I know this is about Control Lab, but the "LEGO + Swedish schools" story is really interesting. As you certainly know, Paul (from Sweden) has two 640kByte 5.25" floppies with LEGO Lines for the Compis computer, which was running CP/M-86 as OS. Paul has already extracted some files from this rather weird format (however, known to 22Disk!), which he sent me, but you can do nothing with any executable of course, as they needs a Compis computer. This software was specifically made for Swedish schools, as the Compis was. The latter failed rather miserably; not because of its design (it is a beautiful machine!!! See here: http://www.datormuseum.se/computers/others/telenova-compis), but because of some rather unfortunate decisions, the Swedish government made back then. It is a highly fascinating story. Cool! Best wishes, Thorsten

Moin Rolf! As others said: A good number of people here have already left the dirt behind . My past 15 and 1/2 years of experience here on EB in a nutshell: It is a wonderful, friendly place, with an enormous LEGO experience and knowledge base. You will get help the moment you ask for, you can share your builds, or other LEGO related stuff (even rather remotely related, as I can tell ), and participate in many activities - or not! German here as well, and I'll turn 64 in a couple of weeks. Welcome to the club. All the best and have fun! Thorsten

Welcome to the club, very good move! ALL BRANDS - or ABS. I went ABS a couple of years ago - this recently mutated into OLO (old LEGO only) and all other brands only (AOBO) Best Thorsten