Lego Track Availability

[zephyr1934]

In the Horizon Express thread I started discussing the need to support the other areas of AFOL train needs, chief of which is making track more readily accessable.

Lego turns like a battleship. I think Lego corporate is listening to many channels of feedback, including keeping an eye on forums like this, watching the survey responses, seeing what comes in through cuusoo, talking to fans at cons, etc.. Case in point, Lego cut costs by just tossing the instructions and stickers loose in the box. After enough AFOLs complained, they started shrink wrapping the instructions. It took about 10 years, but Lego responded to the feedback. I've seen many other smaller examples where it looks like Lego is responding to the feedback.

Lego is still supporting AFOL trains, so they have chosen to invest in this segment. We need to give proper feedback as to how they can best serve this segment. They may or may not respond, as consumers we certainly do not see all of the trade-offs. But we can keep asking for track packs and maybe some day they will deliver.

[mobricki]

TLG needs to release a set of just 8 straight rails because for those of us who own several city train sets we have more curved track than we need. I hate the the straight pack that they have right now because I have bought several and now I have tons of flex track that I don't need. I do use flex track in my layout but I need more straight track without getting more flex track. Bricklink at this point is a lousy solution because straight track is very expensive and can't just by the sets from TLG and sell the unwanted flex track because you can't even give the stuff away because it comes in so many train sets that everybody else has the same problem as I do. We also need the to bring out an rc version of this.

Edited October 13, 2012 by mobricki

[zephyr1934]

So on the cuusoo front, in no particular order, there are

• advance train track system, which has some neat possibilities, probably would never be realized in full, but perhaps the best nuggets could be adopted.
  
• Superelevated curves (with a few variants).
  
• Return to the old 8 straight + 8 bonus curve track pack (better then the current offering, but not as good as just straight separate from just curve)
  
• Larger radi curves, which are something that many AFOLs seem to be asking for.
  

The last one, we see two different third party manufacturers on the verge of offering these options: ME-Models still delayed R2 (and subsequent R3 and R4 that were proposed long ago), and more recently Big Ben's forthcoming curves. Nothing seems to get Lego's attention more than a third party producing a successful product (Big Ben's wheels, Brick Forge Cows and other assorted animals, etc). If the AFOLs prove there is demand, Lego might just enter the market.

As 9V was being discontinued, I was arguing with Steve Barile that Lego just needs to produce a "sleeper" (aka railroad tie) that is compatible with some standard model railroading rail. I now think that there probably is not enough demand for lego to do that, but it could be a niche for someone to serve the AFOL market.

[Locomotive Annie]

As a newbie starting out with brick built trains I found track to be the biggest obstacle. Englighten and Banbao track packs are cheaply and readily available here in New Zealand, but I wouldn't have a clue where to buy Lego track outside of a set. Enlighten point/switch packs are available for $NZ14 which is waaaaaay cheaper than anything I've seen on Bricklink.

Surprisingly some cheap plastic non-brick trainsets are to L gauge. I do some 16mm scale railway modelling as well and I would buy cheap trainsets to break down for parts as I only have a small hobby budget. Not being aware of L gauge at the time I was very much puzzled by the odd track gauge in a couple of trainsets I'd purchased. I'm going to make use of this track too, the larger radius curves are just too useful to ignore.

[Dan-147]

Surprisingly some cheap plastic non-brick trainsets are to L gauge. I do some 16mm scale railway modelling as well and I would buy cheap trainsets to break down for parts as I only have a small hobby budget. Not being aware of L gauge at the time I was very much puzzled by the odd track gauge in a couple of trainsets I'd purchased. I'm going to make use of this track too, the larger radius curves are just too useful to ignore.

Interesting... I'm on a quest for larger radius track. Although my models can negociate LEGO's tight curves, they can look quite silly. You wouldn't happen to have any photos/references/links for these non-LEGO tracks?

Dan-147

[Locomotive Annie]

The track came from a Double Coin brand 'Amusement Train Ride' Item No: 2228 and yes it's made in China. No pointwork (switches) and according to the box the track makes a 14.5 ft oval.

If you ever find one you'll know it immediatly because it's pink...... and what isn't pink is mauve

My only defense is that I got it very cheap at a sale, - well I got two of them actually. It's a wonder I still had the box and hadn't buried it at midnight to hide the shame of having purchased something so tastelessly awful.

[tedbeard]

As 9V was being discontinued, I was arguing with Steve Barile that Lego just needs to produce a "sleeper" (aka railroad tie) that is compatible with some standard model railroading rail. I now think that there probably is not enough demand for lego to do that, but it could be a niche for someone to serve the AFOL market.

Isn't that basically what Ben is doing with his new product?

[zephyr1934]

Isn't that basically what Ben is doing with his new product?

Now that more details than a photo are out, apparently yes!

Getting back to the topic, however, Ben's tracks are probably for the serious AFOL. Lego still needs to make tracks easier to get for the casual AFOL.

[kieran]

I am very new to LEGO Trains, and would love to have access to a wider range of track, I have looked at what is coming for BBB but the issue for me will be that I have invested in LEGO 9V track and would want any new track LEGO brand or not to connect with it. One reason for this is that I don’t currently have a permanent layout meaning me and the kids need to be able to setup a layout and take it back down when done quickly using the entire track we already have.

We like long trains and this makes the very tight radius of the LEGO curve hard to work with so would welcome some wider curves.

[Brickthus]

As 9V was being discontinued, I was arguing with Steve Barile that Lego just needs to produce a "sleeper" (aka railroad tie) that is compatible with some standard model railroading rail. I now think that there probably is not enough demand for lego to do that, but it could be a niche for someone to serve the AFOL market.

Isn't that basically what Ben is doing with his new product?

Now that more details than a photo are out, apparently yes!

Getting back to the topic, however, Ben's tracks are probably for the serious AFOL. Lego still needs to make tracks easier to get for the casual AFOL.

Then there is a choice: a) standard plastic tracks as TLG wants to sell them, which is to make sure they sell all the types they make by mixing the ones we like with the ones we don't like, and b) build your own like other model railways with Ben's new tracks, compatible with 9V or PF.

It's quite a stark choice. Experienced AFOLs are ready for Ben's track solution. I petitioned him for sleepers to fit with standard metal rails that could be cut to length because it is one way to solve both the 9V availability and wider-curve problems. I suggested a 1x8 plate or tile with clips in positions 2 and 7. He found a solution that is more LEGO-esque by using the clutch of a plate to hold the rails in place, and is also easier to assemble than threading sleepers onto pairs of rails.

For the experienced AFOL there is a case for having both systems - Ben's solution for a carefully-planned layout where track positions are designed before building and standard track for experiments and knock-up layouts. Many experienced AFOLs have a lot of track already; I bought enough for my layout plan at one time knowing that track was a high obsolescence risk. TLG then brought out PF and flexi-track so I experimented to find a way to make that acceptable for use in a large layout by ballasting, canting and sloping it. Having done this I see that Ben's solution is good for the longer term because Code 250 rails are used by other scales and gauges so there is support for the rails in the wider model railway community. This makes the metal rails less obsolescent. The key to supply is Ben's sleepers; if his wheels are anything to go by then there should be no problems with long-term supply.

Therefore the conundrum remains: how do AFOLs get the mix of track pieces they need for knock-up layouts, assuming they don't have a lot already, whether or not their best layouts will use Ben's track. I suggest that Ben's track will reduce the AFOL market for standard tracks. This will not persuade TLG to make track packs that we might like so we will continue with cheap curves and flexi-track and expensive straights on Bricklink. As long as they make straights at all, they will have to put enough of them in packs with other parts to make the straights sell at a similar rate, so we just have to keep petitioning for more straights; the other parts will sell anyway because they're in the packs and they fulfil the child market for make-a-circuit layouts.

Flexi-track parts now become more useful to us because we can use them to try out alignments before settling on a custom curve design using Ben's sleepers. They are also useful for roller-coaster slope changes. Given the investment required it is always worth trying out an alignment before buying a lot. Standard curves will just have to be used for end-of-layout spirals to go up and down to a fiddle yard or for large turntables (88ft diameter)! Another use is for making a jet engine or other large round model. We LEGO builders have always been good at finding new uses for parts!

Mark

Edited October 16, 2012 by Mark Bellis

[tedbeard]

I suggested a 1x8 plate or tile with clips in positions 2 and 7. He found a solution that is more LEGO-esque by using the clutch of a plate to hold the rails in place, and is also easier to assemble than threading sleepers onto pairs of rails.

I think you might want to look at the pictures again. It looks to me like the rails will be attached with clips. The "plate" that goes in the middle has small half-clips on the end which lock the rail in place in conjunction with the half-clip on the outside of the tie piece.

[zephyr1934]

Hey hey hey, BBB's track looks fantastic, but talk about the details this other thread. (having been guilty of wandering off topic myself in other threads, I just have to grin).

BBB's track should be fantastic for the heavy duty users. But 90% of the people who buy a train set have no idea about the on-line community and will be looking for an all Lego solution at the start. Still others will want an all Lego solution even if there are superior options at similar prices.

So my point is that Lego needs to offer simple options that allow users to build or extend loops of track. While I would love new track designs, I'm trying to stick within the confines of what Lego is presently offering. I have not even said anything about price. Clearly Lego was originally willing to sell the plastic track at half the price of the 9v track ($16 for 16 segments). Maybe they've pushed the price up to $20 for 16 segments these days, fine, as long as it is all one type of track. It needs to be available from Lego or there will be few new train AFOLs.

[Locomotive Annie]

Track is definitely the kicker. The first accessory someone who has purchased a Lego train set will be looking for is more track and if they can't get it easily the set will just end up on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.

[stacker9000]

Hopefully this is considered within the boundries of this topic...

Maybe a 12v fan can help explain?....The train rails included in the large mining set(12v rails I believe),how many uses do they serve?...As I am wondering why LEGO doesn't re-tool/mill that mold to make it compatible to the PF track(meaning make it the same height,smooth the top edge,and give it the same attachment end notch to link to track pieces.)

To me, that would be the simplest,cost effective way to provide TFOLS with a way to produce the much desired straight runs, similar to ME models design..we build the straight track(very surprised LEGO did not do it before ME models did.)

And as someone posted earlier...I would LOVE to see the return of the 90degree cross track!!

Edited October 17, 2012 by stacker9000

[Lazarus]

Trying to get 9v track is a pain. I do have a bit but i still want about another 30 streights, and at $5NZ for a 9v streight add that up and its alot of cash. I wish people would not over charge for it, i can get a curve for 60c WTF.

At least in another 10 years i might be able to sell them again for $10 and piece.

[zephyr1934]

Maybe a 12v fan can help explain?....The train rails included in the large mining set(12v rails I believe),how many uses do they serve?...As I am wondering why LEGO doesn't re-tool/mill that mold to make it compatible to the PF track(meaning make it the same height,smooth the top edge,and give it the same attachment end notch to link to track pieces.)

Neat idea. The blue track connected with two studs and could pop apart too easily. The gray track had clips that would break. So I think Lego doesn't want to go back there. But retooling the straight rail would be great for niche places. It would also let people extend the indiana jones track a lot easier.

One nice thing about the current mold is that it is exactly 16 studs long. So perhaps keep the notch (so that it can fit in with the lego track pieces) but leave off the tab that extends beyond 16 studs. Though in either case you've given up any clutch in the last stud of the rail (a situation worse than the blue track- in contrast, ME Models uses the last three studs for connection). So inexpensive track like in the mine set would require more parts. We probably have the 16 stud rail only because they have the old molds that they can reuse.

[hoeij]

Trying to get 9v track is a pain. I do have a bit but i still want about another 30 streights, and at $5NZ for a 9v streight add that up and its alot of cash. I wish people would not over charge for it, i can get a curve for 60c WTF.

At least in another 10 years i might be able to sell them again for $10 and piece.

Prices of 9V track are not going up, they're a little bit lower now than they were a year ago. Both supply and demand are very small, so a big buyer/seller could push the prices quite a bit up/down.

[Lazarus]

Just bought 32 bends 10 streights and a x over for about 80 euros Owch!!

[stacker9000]

One nice thing about the current mold is that it is exactly 16 studs long. So perhaps keep the notch (so that it can fit in with the lego track pieces) but leave off the tab that extends beyond 16 studs. Though in either case you've given up any clutch in the last stud of the rail (a situation worse than the blue track- in contrast,.

Ok,...Now we're brainstorming!! I understand your point about the notch, and for my idea, only one side would need to have the notch...the piece would merely have to be flipped around every other rail(so notched ends meet and flat ends join back to back).

and for clutch issues, I think using something like 2(6 long) tiles on the inside of the rails could could adequately connect PF track to these brickbuilt rails.

Oh well...maybe its all just wishful thinking anyway?

[paul_delahaye]

TLG needs to release a set of just 8 straight rails because for those of us who own several city train sets we have more curved track than we need.on of this.

Any reason why you think the set should contain 8 pieces of track?

• Is this because this is what Lego has always offered in the past?
  

• It's not like 8 pieces are exactly 1 meter in length so this is the optimum number?
  

So we know the cost to Lego of manufacture of track now is much less than ten years ago as they don't have to add the metal conductive parts to the moulding. We all want to make bigger track layouts, so why are we not asking for a pack of 20 straights?

We actually would not even have to ask Lego to make track packs at all if they bought the price of a length of straight track on their Pick a Brick wall down to a reasonable price. Nearly £2 a length, £16 for a meter of track seems steep, if they halved the price, they would sell more, and it would please the train fans as we could have a route to more track. No packaging or Instruction manuals would be required so it would keep the cost down for Lego. Seems to be the way to go in my opinion.

Paul

[andythenorth]

if they halved the price, they would sell more

And they'd have half the revenue per unit. Where's the incentive for TLG to do this?

[paul_delahaye]

And they'd have half the revenue per unit. Where's the incentive for TLG to do this?

It's not rocket science, If they priced them at a £1, 100 people would buy them. they price them at £2 and 90 of those people think, that's too expensive and don't buy them. So do they make £100 from selling 100 or do they make £20 from selling 10. The same can be said for the hot dog stand at Legoland Windsor, How many do they actually sell at £4.50 a hot dog. How many would they sell at £2. They would still make a killer Gross Margin.Paul

Edited October 21, 2012 by paul_delahaye

[legoboy3998]

I did notice, the last time I was at my NEW local LEGO store, they did have the straight/flex track pack on the shelf by the trains. I did just check the LEGO site and found something interesting. Sets 2734 and 2735 DUPLO Straight and Curved rails respectavly, 6 pieces per pack for $4.99. It has been a while but aren't the DUPLO track similar in size to the regualr track? If it works for DUPLO why not the regular tracks?

Sal

WFB, WI

[andythenorth]

It's not rocket science, If they priced them at a £1, 100 people would buy them. they price them at £2 and 90 of those people think

What kind of science is it then? Where are you getting your numbers from? Have you surveyed people in TRU or such?

I figure there aren't that many train nerds in the world. My bet would be that instead of 10 buyers at £2, you get 15 buyers at £1. If you can figure out a way to prove it one way or the other, I'll put a £20 bet on it

[Bricktrain]

Actually, for the most part the 7499 is a good package, it has 12 straights, or 8 straights and 4 curves, for the average buyer. Just because we choose not to use the flex track doesnt make it a bad package, its just not what all of us want. And it is available from at least some toystores even here.