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My Background:

I think before I talk about the 8265 it would be good to give some information on who I am and my experience with Lego which will influence what I expected from this set and the reasons I like or dislike various elements on this set. This post is not meant to be a full review of 8265 but more my thoughts on various elements and some ideas I have to change / improve it.

I have been a huge fan of Lego for almost my whole life, early on in my life my younger brother and myself used to build huge setups use the normal “City” theme Lego which would take up quite a bit of space in the house. We built whole cities with houses modelled on those of people we knew and we used to get quite a bit of detail in these. Around 1989 I started looking at the Technic range as I was looking for something which had more features and more closely worked like things did in real life. I was lucky enough to be given one of the early buggy / go-karts which I build quite quickly and I can still remember to this day the pride I felt once I had finished it. Once I had shown to my parents that I was able to build these types of models each Birthday and Christmas normally resulted in one or more new Technic models joining my collection. This last from 1989 until 1998 when I entered my “semi dark age” during which I purchased a few different sets but didn’t really class it as a hobby and they mostly sat on the shelf or broken down in storage crates. I would say I have had around 35 Technic models during my life and at the moment I would have about 30 still, either built and on display or broken down in my crate ready to build. I also spent quite a bit of my teenage years making MOC’s or various things mostly related to earth moving, trucks or cars. Mostly of my collection of pieces is of the “studded” type and this is where most of my experience is which also will affect how I view the newer “studless” type building methods.

Prior to buying and building 8265 the largest / most complex model I build would have been 8455 (Back hoe) which I owned for a few years until I sold it due to a lack of space to store / display it.

Thoughts on 8265:

After spending most of yesterday building 8265 I have a few thoughts and ideas on it and how to improve it.

Things I like:

- Value for money.

- Size (it is quite large and fits in well with the rest of my collection)

- Number of features.

- Use of “studless” bricks: I was never a huge fan of these when I first saw them being from the old school of “studded” bricks and building but after building this my thoughts have changed. It would not be possible to build something like this as easily with “studded” bricks.

- Model Team like details: (Mirrors, lights, stickers and covered frame) which make it look more lifelike. Being a fan of Model Team I appreciate the extra details that TLC have added to this model.

- Control layout (but I do have some ideas to improve this)

- 4WD.

- Engine setup and detail. This looks good and works well.

Things I don’t like / things I am going to try and change or fix:

- Use of Linear Actuator’s: I much prefer the use of Pneumatics and I find the Linear Actuator’s don’t work very well in this model. I have had issues with one side of the arm lifting or lowering at a different speed to the other and the model being “out of balance”. I also find it is slow. I know this model was designed to be powered with a motor but for people like me who don’t want to add a motor it is a bit of a letdown how slow the arm and bucket moves.

- Height the arm lifts to: I feel this is quite low and I am going to look at a way to improve this.

- Steering: I find this to be quite poorly designed and it is another thing I am going to be looking at trying to change / improve.

- The way you change which part is moved (bucket and arm) and how this works: Another area I think needs some work as while it is a clever way to switch what part is moved in real life on a frontend loader you can move both at the same time. I have some ideas on how to fix this which I am going to try.

- Control Knobs for steering and lifting action: I am going to replace the top gear which controls the steering with a flashing light and the rear control gear with a better control wheel like what is used on some of the other models.

- Lifting ability: I have tested this with something as small and light as a spare wheel off another model and as soon as it gets to about half way up it just stops and won’t lift any higher. I think this could be related to the Linear Actuator’s but I am unsure how to fix it.

Overall:

This model looks the part and has some good features which appear to be let down by the way in which some of them have been designed on this model. I have some plans to fix / change these and I hope this will improve the model quite a bit.

Now for the photos:

15082010_Technic826525.jpg

15082010_Technic826526.jpg

15082010_Technic826527.jpg

15082010_Technic826531.jpg

15082010_Technic826532.jpg

15082010_Technic826539.jpg

15082010_Technic826540.jpg

15082010_Technic826541.jpg

15082010_Technic826542.jpg

15082010_Technic826543.jpg

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For me you have summed up this model perfectly, couldn't agree more.

You mentioned that you much prefere pneumatics (awesome!) but then you mention other aspects/problems with this set you would like to change like it not being able to lift anything with any weight to it or not being able to control both features at once. You also mention that you would like to change the control at the back. I assume you realise all these problems and more will dissappear if you use pneumatics.

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For me you have summed up this model perfectly, couldn't agree more.

You mentioned that you much prefere pneumatics (awesome!) but then you mention other aspects/problems with this set you would like to change like it not being able to lift anything with any weight to it or not being able to control both features at once. You also mention that you would like to change the control at the back. I assume you realise all these problems and more will dissappear if you use pneumatics.

Thank you for the reply, I am glad to hear other people feel the same way about it as I do. I am looking at changing some features of this to use pneumatics and also fixing some of the other issues, once I have down this I will post some photos.

Paul

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I could be misunderstanding something here, But you say the bucket can barely lift a small load. With my 8265 i had no problems lifting very heavy things, things impossible for pneumatics. My take on the linear actuators are that they are stronger and more precise and also have a longer range of movement, i suspect you have some construction errors if your 8265 performs as badly as you say. So i see them as far superior to pneumatics as long as the model is motorized so you don't have to turn the knob for a minute to raise the bucket. However even unmotorized the linear actuators lifting abilities should be top notch.

About the steering mechanism i agree, it is very bad and destroys gears or liftarms unless you play very nicely.

Edited by Ultimario

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My version was built perfectly, the motor was not under much stress when I motorised it but either motorised or manual I was able to lift much heavier weights with either of my motorised or manual pneumatic versions. However I did have to double them up (two end on end) to make them long enough to be in scale. Pneumatics will always be far better to me for this kind of application (diggers, excavators, back hoes, container trucks and so on).

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@ Paul B: How do you feel about Sarafiel's "8265 Upgrade (Book 4) -- Worm Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=408224 ) and "8265 Upgrade (Book 5) -- LA Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=409679 )?

BOOK 4 (first two thumbnails of step-by-step instructions):

h_8265_pf_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpgh_8265_pf_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

BOOK 5 (first two thumbnails of step-by-step instructions):

8265_pf_la_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpg8265_pf_la_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

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I also wrote a review of this model here on Eurobricks, and I agree with most of what you said. In general, I also prefer pneumatics. The 8459 would be an example of a similar 4WD loader with V-6 that is done with pneumatics and you can, of course, control both functions at the same time. One thing I do like about the linear actuators, however, is the mechanical complexity that goes with them. With pneumatics, you would simply route some tubes to the actuators. With the actuators, you get a pile of gears, a switching transmission, and a bunch of u-joints to pass across the articulation axis. You can debate whether or not all of this is a good thing, but I always enjoy as many gears and rotating parts as I can get my hands on.

The same is true of 8862 vs. 8455. 8455 is the best pneumatic set ever, but I just built 8862 yesterday and I had forgotten how much I love the 5 mechanical features.

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You have a good point there blakbird. indeed the one good thing about LAs is the mechanical complexity that sometimes comes with them. But there are other ways of adding complexity without doing away with realism and pneumatics. I'm sorry to keep ranting on about this, just love the technic :sweet:

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This model does have a few flaws, but it's still my favorite Technic set of the last few years. It's quite large and mechanically complex, and is an exceptional value at $80. :thumbup: In this case, I think the LAs work better than pneumatics would have and make the model more interesting.

The LA functions work pretty well for me. They do have some friction when moving both with or against gravity, but I think that is an issue with the LAs themselves, as discussed in the excavator thread.

The steering setup is imprecise and has too much friction in it though. I replaced the friction pin and red bush pin on the pivot point with gray and tan connector pins. There is more room for improvement with it. Adding a second, symmetric beam on the other side (so that the gear is connected to the pivot point in two ways) might allow it to hold its position better.

- Control Knobs for steering and lifting action: I am going to replace the top gear which controls the steering with a flashing light and the rear control gear with a better control wheel like what is used on some of the other models.

Yes, changing the rear knob gear is a must unless you're motorizing it. This is what I did:

8265.jpg

I also added some more gear reduction here, using the extra 12t and 20t gears that come with the set. These changes makes the model far more enjoyable to play with.

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I could be misunderstanding something here, But you say the bucket can barely lift a small load. With my 8265 i had no problems lifting very heavy things, things impossible for pneumatics. My take on the linear actuators are that they are stronger and more precise and also have a longer range of movement, i suspect you have some construction errors if your 8265 performs as badly as you say. So i see them as far superior to pneumatics as long as the model is motorized so you don't have to turn the knob for a minute to raise the bucket. However even unmotorized the linear actuators lifting abilities should be top notch.

About the steering mechanism i agree, it is very bad and destroys gears or liftarms unless you play very nicely.

Thank you for the reply. Yes I have issues with lifting almost anything in the bucket, even a small wheel causes it to stop and not want to move past a given point. I am fairly sure it has been built right as without a load it seems to work ok. I will be checking it fully tonight to confirm I have not missed anything or not connected something right.

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@ Paul B: How do you feel about Sarafiel's "8265 Upgrade (Book 4) -- Worm Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=408224 ) and "8265 Upgrade (Book 5) -- LA Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=409679 )?

BOOK 4 (first two thumbnails of step-by-step instructions):

h_8265_pf_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpgh_8265_pf_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

BOOK 5 (first two thumbnails of step-by-step instructions):

8265_pf_la_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpg8265_pf_la_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

Thanks for those links, I will go and have a look at them.

Paul

I also wrote a review of this model here on Eurobricks, and I agree with most of what you said. In general, I also prefer pneumatics. The 8459 would be an example of a similar 4WD loader with V-6 that is done with pneumatics and you can, of course, control both functions at the same time. One thing I do like about the linear actuators, however, is the mechanical complexity that goes with them. With pneumatics, you would simply route some tubes to the actuators. With the actuators, you get a pile of gears, a switching transmission, and a bunch of u-joints to pass across the articulation axis. You can debate whether or not all of this is a good thing, but I always enjoy as many gears and rotating parts as I can get my hands on.

The same is true of 8862 vs. 8455. 8455 is the best pneumatic set ever, but I just built 8862 yesterday and I had forgotten how much I love the 5 mechanical features.

Yes I have had a good read of your review and that has some very good points and covers this set well. As I posted above I think part of my problem could be related to a step I have missed or done wrong and tonight I will be giving the model a full check to confirm it was built as it should be.

Paul

This model does have a few flaws, but it's still my favorite Technic set of the last few years. It's quite large and mechanically complex, and is an exceptional value at $80. :thumbup: In this case, I think the LAs work better than pneumatics would have and make the model more interesting.

The LA functions work pretty well for me. They do have some friction when moving both with or against gravity, but I think that is an issue with the LAs themselves, as discussed in the excavator thread.

The steering setup is imprecise and has too much friction in it though. I replaced the friction pin and red bush pin on the pivot point with gray and tan connector pins. There is more room for improvement with it. Adding a second, symmetric beam on the other side (so that the gear is connected to the pivot point in two ways) might allow it to hold its position better.

Yes, changing the rear knob gear is a must unless you're motorizing it. This is what I did:

8265.jpg

I also added some more gear reduction here, using the extra 12t and 20t gears that come with the set. These changes makes the model far more enjoyable to play with.

Thanks for the info and photo, that is exactly the same change I made to mine last night.

Paul

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Thank you for the reply. Yes I have issues with lifting almost anything in the bucket, even a small wheel causes it to stop and not want to move past a given point. I am fairly sure it has been built right as without a load it seems to work ok. I will be checking it fully tonight to confirm I have not missed anything or not connected something right.

This is indeed odd that models seem to perform very differently for no apparent reason. Leads me to believe more in that LAs vary very much in quality as there are lots of problems with the 8043 aswell connected to the linear actuators.

I wish my 8265 was still built so i could do some real tests and weigh the load it can carry but sadly it was disassembled for a MOC some months back. Anyone who have their 8265's built could perhaps weigh what they can lift in the bucket within reasonable strain. Perhaps get a view of how different they are.

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This is indeed odd that models seem to perform very differently for no apparent reason. Leads me to believe more in that LAs vary very much in quality as there are lots of problems with the 8043 aswell connected to the linear actuators.

I wish my 8265 was still built so i could do some real tests and weigh the load it can carry but sadly it was disassembled for a MOC some months back. Anyone who have their 8265's built could perhaps weigh what they can lift in the bucket within reasonable strain. Perhaps get a view of how different they are.

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is strange that some work well and some others don't I will do some more testing tonight and confirm it has been built right and what the weight limit on the bucket is on my model.

Paul

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Well I spent a few hours working on this last night and while I made some changes to the look of the model (photos to come in the next few days) I was unable to resolve the issues with not being able to lift much of a load in the bucket. From the testing I did a load of about 400g was when it started to have problems with gears slipping, I was unable to see which gear this was so tonight I am going to strip back some of the frame so I can see the gears better to see which one / ones are causing the problems.

Paul

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Here are some photos of the changes I have made to this model to make it look better and improve the "playability"

Paul

20082010_Lego82651.jpg

20082010_Lego82652.jpg

20082010_Lego82653.jpg

20082010_Lego82654.jpg

20082010_Lego82655.jpg

Edited by Paul B

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I have compiled the individual JPG images for Sarafiel's "8265 Upgrade (Book 4) -- Worm Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=408224 ) and "8265 Upgrade (Book 5) -- LA Steering" ( http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=409679 ) into PDF documents available from MegaUpload SkyDrive. Click on the hyperlinks below to access the files.

(17.3-MB PDF file)

BOOK 5 (17.5-MB PDF file)

BOOK 4 -- Full Power Functions with Worm-gear Steering:

h_8265_pf_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpgh_8265_pf_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

BOOK 5 -- powered Linear Actuator (LA) Steering:

8265_pf_la_ins_final_001.jpg_thumb.jpg8265_pf_la_ins_final_002.jpg_thumb.jpg

Edited by DLuders

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It's better than loose pictures, but there were already pdf's of this "books". :wink:

There was something written about on Technicbrick's, I also downloaded this as a PDF.

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Biker also created Building Instructions for a fully-motorized Lego Technic 8265 Wheel Loader -- "All functions motorized, full RC. Reliable and fun. The set was heavily modified, to fit all the electronics. The V6 engine is still in its place....fully motorized with 3 PF M and 1 PF XL motors. The set has been heavily rebuilt, as I had to find place for the 4 motors + 2 receivers....The outlook is the same as the other models without RC motors." On his Brickshelf folder, he posted many photos (with helpful words on them), a link to this

, and a Lego Digital Designer (LDD) v4.1.6 .lxf file. :thumbup: A 3-page PDF Parts List (using LDD Manager) is attached at the bottom of this post.

To save people's time, here is the single, 25.8-MB PDF file with all of Biker's photo-sequence instructions (via MegaUpload SkyDrive).

sdc11257.jpgsdc11260.jpg

Parts List for Biker\'s Lego 8265 Motorized Loader.pdf

Edited by DLuders

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Nice solution! Much better than Srafiels, because it has 1/3 reduction from XL for drive, XL motor is better fitted in and it uses simpler (and more tough) drive of steering LA. (in Sarafiel design it goes around whole back end of excavator and thru 4 universal joints).

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for me the 8464 loader is the best i don't have the 8265 set or that crane that came out last year.

I am just finished that red truck crane and it is pants in terms of lifting.... both the blue and the red peumatic crane (blue tow truck and that red truck you could change the back stuff on ) .

Edited by Alasdair Ryan

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So which model is better ?

Biker's of course, at least from quick overview of instructions. It solves two of most troublesome features of sarafiel's design: too fast driving speed and too hard to control turning.

It could however be posiible that biker's design needs more addtional bricks.

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Hi! is there a parts list for the "bikers 8265" that shows the parts not already included in 8265?

so i know which parts i need to buy in order to build one.

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@ Eigenbroetler: If you open an account on Rebrickable.com , you can go to the "My Sets" tab and load the standard 8265 set. Then, you can upload Biker's modified 8265 LDD .lxf file (which has a link in Post #18 of this topic) and try to "Build this MOC". The additional parts that Biker used will remain, once Rebrickable knows that you already have the standard 8265 set.

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