[COR - FB] "Golden Filly" 5F Schooner

[SilentWolf]

To read the backstory go here.

One of the first things that Silent Wolf and his partners had done when they originally decided to set forth on an expedition together was commission a brand new ship from the best builder in Belson. Though they did not have the funds to fully pay for the vessel of their choice they did make a down payment with promise that they would pay more soon. After their return and with the secret discovery of gold, they were able to pay the balance of the ship as well as aid the crown in re-outfitting two captured ships. The HMS Whisper was able to sail out of port at the end of March. However, the Schooner they had requested for utmost speed and trading ability, and the war schooner the crown had seized both launched today, the 27th of April, 616.

The recently formed Wolf's Equine, Trading, and Expedition Company, or Wolf's Horses for short, was the proud owner of the Golden Filly. The command of the ship on its maiden merchant voyage was granted to Arthur Kellogg. As a businessman and one of the partners, he would oversee all the merchant fleet of the company.

Micah sailed with the Golden Filly from Belson back to Arlinsport. There they began equipping her to meet the rest of Corrington's Merchant Fleet. Micah and his fiancee Elizabeth, boarded the Golden Filly with one of the natives the company had brought back to Arlinsport. They then put her out 20 miles and ran a test inspection of the ship making sure all was ready. The soldiers and sailors were indeed ready. They sped over the water at incredible speeds as the company fluttered at the masthead.

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[TitusV]

Another Nice ship, i like the way all your ships "carry the same mark", if you get what I mean?

Anyway, good job!

[blackdeathgr]

Great, elegant ship with simple enough (for us not shipmasters to use), yet tremendously efficient techniques! Colors are nice and so is the stern. Your hull design is something i will definitely use in the (hopefully) near future! Also the masts are very nice, especially the front one (Bregir how is it called?). One thing i would prefer to see is the sails made out of cloth rather than paper. It would boost the image of your ship imo. You are definitely improving by each MOC of yours!

[Captain Braunsfeld]

Looks ok, but now I am a bit concerned about the way your gun ports are working.

You may want to check...

[kurigan]

You've got goid lines and a realistic rig ere. I espically like your color scheme.

That there is not a schooner though. What you have here is a hermaphrodite brig. If that large for-and-aft sail on the fore mast were on the main stay rather than a gaff of its own, she would be a brigantine. Since you have the compeeting main sails, a course and gaff, on the fore sail in addition to the top and top gallant sails, she is a hermaphrodite.

It would be wonderful if she could be index as to show case that peculiarity which makes the difference; perhaps to settle the matter around here once and for all.

SilentWolf, sir, could you provide an image from larboard, where we might see the spars unobscured by their sails, to serve that purpose?

Edited April 30, 2016 by kurigan

[SilentWolf]

Great, elegant ship with simple enough (for us not shipmasters to use), yet tremendously efficient techniques! Colors are nice and so is the stern. Your hull design is something i will definitely use in the (hopefully) near future! Also the masts are very nice, especially the front one (Bregir how is it called?). One thing i would prefer to see is the sails made out of cloth rather than paper. It would boost the image of your ship imo. You are definitely improving by each MOC of yours!

Thank you for the compliments. I have been experimenting with the design of the ship and this definitely seems to be the best looking design I have accomplished so far. I was actually planning on doing cloth sails this month and cut these as my templates. However, my wife was in the hospital for several days so the cloth got put on hold until a later ship. I am glad to here that people are seeing an improvement in my MOC's.

Looks ok, but now I am a bit concerned about the way your gun ports are working.

You may want to check...

The gun ports will open even with the Lego rigging right next to them. Though they are upside down due to height and attachment issues. I need to resolve that before the next one I build.

You've got goid lines and a realistic rig ere. I espically like your color scheme.

That there is not a schooner though. What you have here is a hermaphrodite brig. If that large for-and-aft sail on the fore mast were on the main stay rather than a gaff of its own, she would be a brigantine. Since you have the compeeting main sails, a course and gaff, on the fore sail in addition to the top and top gallant sails, she is a hermaphrodite.

It would be wonderful if she could be index as to show case that peculiarity which makes the difference; perhaps to settle the matter around here once and for all.

SilentWolf, sir, could you provide an image from larboard, where we might see the spars unobscured by their sails, to serve that purpose?

Thank you for the compliments to the ship and the information on the type of ship. I had tried to research a schooner so I could be accurate, and I got several different examples of both hulls and sail configurations. This one used the configuration with the captain's captain, and El Bellos used the smoother design with just a small entrance to the cabin showing above. However, this was the most common rigging design I saw except for the topsail schooner. Obviously my examples were misleading as now that I have researched what you told me about the hermaphrodite, I see some discrepancy on what is and is not a schooner. I definitely appreciate having those of you who know ships around to help us who don't. I will try and get a better picture from larboard. The original one didn't turn out due to issues with lighting. As a reference, here were the models I was using as my reference.

USS Enterprise con80837

Texan_schooner_Independence

[Bregir]

Overall, very nice vessel, silentwolf. Both hull and rigging are very nice, and I particularly like how the proportions just seem right, in terms of mast height, size of sails, hull, cabin, etc.

My only comment to rigging is that your topsail on the mainmast (the aftmost mast) is rather oddly shaped. I would check up on that if I were you - a few pictures should show you what I mean. However, aprt from that, this is absolutely excellent rigging.

I think Kurigan is entirely right in his classification, and I believe this is the first hermaphrodite brig we see here. Very nice!

And to Blackdeathgr: Well. For brigs, schoooners, etc., the foremost mast is called the fore-mast, and the second the main-mast. ;) It really is very simple - a third mast would be the mizzen. Distinction between these masts are in some cases necessary to discern the shiptype, for instance between a brig (fore- and mainmast) and a ketch. (Main and and mizzen.)

[Bregir]

Sorry for this double post, but this talk of rigging types piqued my interest, and I had to study it a bit more. My conclusion?

If she has gaff sails on both masts, she would be considered a schooner, as in this case, and as she also carries square sails on the fore, a topsail schooner. Taking away the boom and gaff on the fore (I.e. turning that sail into a staysail) would make her a hermaphrodite brig. :)

[Fuzzy MacFuzz]

Hold on, that's two great ships posted in a row, right? You are really spoiling us...and giving a great boost to Corrington too.

I like how different this ship is to the other one, they are similar in size but this one is much more trade than military, and a nice colour shceme too. Lovely stern cabin, I like the wings! One thing I don't see, although maybe it is obscured; a filly figurehead, which would be nice. Again, great masts and sails and nice crew posing. I don't know much about ships, but I like what I see! How about a photo of both your new ships sailing together?

[kurigan]

That, sir, would make her a brigantine. It's the contradictory sails which bring to use the term "hermaphrodite". Since its very unlikely both the fore course and fore sail would be employed simultaneously at any given point the thing can appear to be either a brigantine (not using the main staysail) or a topsail schooner, depending. Case in point, though I'm first to tell anyone to just get out there and start "googling" images, the action in the Texan painting is very unlikely. The wind which effectively fills the courses, set athwart ship as they are, would not likely fill the gaff sails, set for and aft as they are. We-all just had this discussion about one of  Kolonialamter's LDD works not much more than a month ago, if memory serves. Either or both sails would need to be laid over to catch the same wind and in that case one would most assuredly block at least half the wind from getting to the other. In much the same manner as the term applies to an animal, which can not function as both male and female at the same time, but can still be possessed of both organs, the hermaphrodite brig can be both but only one at a time.

Where the confusion arises is from our post 20th c. attitude of needing to classify and categorize everything vs. a much more historic sense of dealing with individual things on a case by case basis. Add to that the common man's method of practical education, where the terms my have been laid down by verbal instruction, incorrectly or misinterpreted after the fact. It's not even considered entirely wrong in maritime culture to lump hermaphrodite brigs in with all schooners as being another type. It's as necessary of a distinction as "top sail" (which she would be if nothing hung below the lowest yard). Though it's more accurate, it's often unnecessary and omitted for conversation's sake. 

I only saw an opportunity to settle the matter for clarification's sake and have a Lego built model in the index, rather than just those wretched, and inaccurate blue thumbnails from wikipedia.

Sorry to hijack your thread, SilentWolf. It's just one of those misinformation things which has bothered me for year and taken a long time to dig to the heart of and makes it do hard to let go.

[Bregir]

Erhm, I fear I am an accomplice in this highjacking.. :P

Fascinating discussion! :D

However, Kurigan - I have been unable (admittedly with limited research) to find any sources denoting anything as a brigantine or hermaphrodite brig which carries a gaff sail on the fore, but I would like to see your source.

I still think gaff rig on the fore will make her a variation of a schooner. And a topsail schooner can possibly carry a full suite of square sails, it seems, which fits the current vessel.

[SilentWolf]

I actually don't mind the hijacking. I am getting a great lesson in ships, even if it requires me to google what the terms mean.

Hold on, that's two great ships posted in a row, right? You are really spoiling us...and giving a great boost to Corrington too.

I like how different this ship is to the other one, they are similar in size but this one is much more trade than military, and a nice colour shceme too. Lovely stern cabin, I like the wings! One thing I don't see, although maybe it is obscured; a filly figurehead, which would be nice. Again, great masts and sails and nice crew posing. I don't know much about ships, but I like what I see! How about a photo of both your new ships sailing together?

I didn't have figureheads on either of these two ships as it didn't seem proper for them. Plus I couldn't come up with a way to get a horse figurehead on the ship. I am still trying to get some more photos, and hopefully one of the two ships together. It was fun to build two ships so much the same but with varying differences. The cabin being one of the biggest differences, but even the cannons are placed differently.

[Captain Dee]

Another fine classic type vessel. The colors are definitely unique and should make her easy to spot. The angled windows on the cabin are nice, and overall she has a pretty good form despite the somewhat severe slope of the tumblehome. As for the rigging, that is indeed a tricky classification with all the different points to consider. I can't decide for sure just what she would be - besides a fine addition to the fleet!

[Maxim I]

I can't decide for sure just what she would be - besides a fine addition to the fleet!

Hahaha, it was a fine addition to the fleet

[Captain Green Hair]

Shape wise this is quite a neat ship, though the colour scheme looks a bit pixeled to me.

I also think you should read up on masts and rigging for your next build.

But it is a nice addition to the fleet!

[SilentWolf]

Shape wise this is quite a neat ship, though the colour scheme looks a bit pixeled to me.

I also think you should read up on masts and rigging for your next build.

But it is a nice addition to the fleet!

Do you have any suggestions for a good source on masts and rigging: books or websites? I often google the ships I am trying to build to get an idea but as seems obvious in this build, it sometimes gives poor information.