mostlytechnic

Creator Expert Harley-Davidson Thanks to Lego and EB for this review set - it's a new entry in the line of Creator licensed vehicles (Mini, VW Beetle, Mustang, etc) and I was excited to check it out. I've admired those sets but never owned any of them. More importantly, when it comes to this HD set, I had not seen any images online or had any ideas about it before it arrived - I literally only knew that it was a Harley in the Creator Expert line. Name: Harley-Davidson Set Number: 10269 Pieces: 1023 Price: unknown as of review date (July 9, 2019) but I'm guessing $100-ish (edit: confirmed to be $99.99 US, $139.99 CAD, 84.99 GBP) Minifigs: 0 Theme: Creator Expert The Box Front When I opened the shipping box and got my first look at this set, I couldn't do anything but think WOW. At a glance, this set could easily pass for a model rather than a Lego set. There's so much detail packed into this and it just looks right. The Real Thing Before we move on, here's the real 2019 Harley-Davidson Fat Boy from their online gallery. Like I said, Lego appears to have nailed the design. The dual exhausts with their taper in the middle... the solid wheels... and of course the V of the engine. (and oddly, the photo Lego used inside the manual of the real bike isn't in the "Wicked Red" color. It's "Industrial Grey Denim" instead which looks too bland on the page IMHO.) The Box Back Wait a minute - this thing has functional pistons like a Technic set? I like! And it looks good from this side too. It feels a little more Lego-ish from this side for some reason, but it's still very good looking. The Scale This will be a pretty good-sized model. It's over a foot long. And apparently they liked the 107 logo for the 1:1 image, but were afraid people couldn't put that in context, so they added the engine as well. The New Parts The only new molds that I saw are for the wheels. The front tire is the existing "Racing Tread" motorcycle tire that's been used since 2010 in Technic, Hero Factory, and Ninjago sets. The wide rear tire is new though, as are the solid wheels. And in a clever design to save on mold costs, the read tire just uses 2 of the rims instead of needing another custom part. Molds are expensive, especially for large parts like these, and since these rims are such an iconic trademark of the Fat Boy bike, I suspect Lego won't be allowed to reuse them elsewhere. It is a bit of a cheat though. The real bike doesn't have a rear tire twice as wide as the front (they're 160mm wide fronts and 240mm wide rears), and the real rear rim has a deeper recess. The Age Designing a set takes a long time. Both new molds are copyrighted 2018, even though the set isn't being released until mid-2019. The Stickers The set has some printed pieces and one small sticker sheet. It's a very chrome sheet so that the "mirror" circles are reflective. The rest of the stickers have the usual Lego hidden meanings in them. 107 is the engine size (and really printed on the real bikes). WGDLN1990 stands for Willie G Davidson and Louie Netz, who designed the Fat Boy in 1990. 41 is the highway number that runs through Milwaukee, WI, where HD is headquartered. The 1974 on the odometer is the year that Bill Davis started designing the softail style frame. (thanks to the friendly people over at /r/harley for the help getting my facts right on these!) The Build, part 1 The parts for this set come in bags numbered 1-4. Stage 1 begins with building this frame that will become the bottom of the bike. They're already using some "advanced" build techniques - that black perpendicular connector (which, believe it or not, is a new color for that part!) is not connected to an axle like it's designed for. It's connected onto an arm so that it can swing outwards to become the kickstand. The Build, part 2 I'm not doing a ton of build photos - this set is a joy to assemble and I don't want to spoil too much. The build process is very modular. There's surprisingly little building directly onto the bike. It's mostly assembling a module and then attaching it as a chunk. Here is the engine. I paused partway through to show that yes, there are pistons inside there and they really do move. It's a fun piece of building, even though it's hidden completely in the finished model. The Build, part 3 At the end of bag 1 the finished engine mounts onto the frame. Thankfully, the two stickered discs are mounted onto pins, so they can be rotated freely to be level. There are also interesting part choices that make little sense. You can see the ends of blue 3L pins there. Below them are grey 3L pin with 1L axles... but why? There was no need. There are some locations where they chose the ones with axles because they didn't want blue showing, but there are other places where there was no need for the axle version. The set also has the 2 stud Technic axles in both red and black. There's nowhere that the red is needed visually. The Build, part 4 When you reach the end of bag 2, it now looks much more like a motorcycle. Perhaps the one tedious part of the build is connecting those 43 chain links. And then you have to feed them through the frame and around the gears. I found picking the whole thing up in the air and letting gravity do most of the work was the easiest method. Again though, there's a few odd part choices. I wonder if they are trying to model something on the real bike that isn't visible - for example, there is a spot on the side that uses a 1x1x1 corner panel that is completely hidden. It's the only one of that part in the whole set, and it could easily have been replaced by a standard 1x1 brick (which are already in the set) with no visible change. Likewise, the set has a couple white Technic 2/3L Pin Connectors, but they're buried inside. It already uses black and light grey ones, so why complicate the production process that way? The Build, part 5 At the end of bag 3, a lot more of the detail has been added. Be careful putting on the speedometer sticker - its disc is attached to an axle, so the angle is fixed. Mine will now forever be slightly crooked.... Also of note is the dark red of the gas tank. In real life it doesn't look as unevenly colored as this photo. The actual color is close, but the curved pieces are glossy while the slope in the middle is a matte texture. That difference stands out in certain lighting. The exhausts have a great part usage - they use aircraft engines to form both the taper between sizes and an attachment point to the body of the bike. On the other hand, you can see the most annoying piece of the set in this photo. Just behind the engine, there's a black cone with a 1x1 round grey tile on top (it represents the suspension adjustment knob on the real bike). I find that's right where my thumb hits when I pick the bike up from above, so I've knocked that cone off so many times making this review. And once the second exhaust pipe is in the way, it's a bit of pain to reinstall. The Build, part 6 And it's complete. Bag 4 adds the second exhaust and the front wheel and fork assembly (and a simple grey stand). I personally think the front fork is the one area that feels badly out of proportion. The real bike is beefy there, but not quite this thick. Unfortunately, Lego doesn't have any 1.5x1.5 round parts. I also think the front fender is a little too short. The Front IMHO, this is the weakest angle on the set. Granted, the headlight/fork/handlebar assembly is complex and difficult to recreate, but I still think the headlight is too big and the forks too thick. I wonder if a 3x3 dish would have made a better headlight. I'm betting they went with the 4x4 though because there's no 3x3 plate to put behind the dish. I do appreciate that the handlebars attach with clips, so they're simple to pop back off if you need to store the set in a box. The Comparison Here is the Harley next to 2010's Technic 8051 set (which uses the same tires as 10269's front tire, so it's theoretically around the same scale). I built it as the B model which is closer in proportions to the Fat Boy. 8051 was a $40 set with 467 pieces, and the B model uses only about 350 parts. You can clearly see what a difference 1000 vs 350 parts makes! The Big Brother I stopped by a large Harley Davidson dealer to get their thoughts. The staff there were blown away by how good the set looked and were amazed that it actually had functional pistons and chain drive (even though the real bike is a belt drive). They couldn't point out anything that looked wrong - sure, there's minor details (no side reflectors on the front fork or at the rear, the shallow dish of the rear wheel, etc) but overall they loved it. The number of little details are what caught their attention. For a small model, it has lights, hand controls, shift and brake pedals, etc. The Size Comparison The Lego set fits nicely on the footrest of a real 2019 Fat Boy. It does show the one visual drawback to the Lego version - its not all chromed . How long until we see some custom chromed versions showing up? I think they'd look fantastic! The End This is a well-designed set and truly a joy to build. I LOVED the build process on this. It blends Technic and System magnificently both visually and in build techniques. Mike Psiaki had a tough challenge, translating the angles and curves of a modern motorcycle into Lego, but he met it. Even the staff at an HD dealer said they were looking forward to picking the set up! If you don't have around twenty thousand bucks to drop on the real thing, get the Lego version for about half a percent of the price.

I like the look of the white a lot. Not a real HD color, but it looks nice.

I just watched Sariel's video and seems like we agree on just about everything. He did a great job going through every part and finding all the new colors - lots of the dark red parts are new in that color, and a surprising amount of new light grey parts appear too! And then there's a pair of tan inverted curves slopes... I'm assuming some other new sets will be using them, since there's no need for that color in this set. When I talked to the Harley shop staff, one thing they wished for was color options like the real bike has. Being Lego, it's probably possible to make some other colored versions, but that assumes the parts are available. The one piece that wouldn't be available is the printed tiles on each side. Those would have been nice to be stickers on clear backgrounds so people could make other color schemes.

Very nice - and the waves are a great touch.

And of course, come back here tomorrow to see the EB review of it as well!

Yep, Yep, Yep!

Wow. And really, def is back, and not only did I not realize it, but I GOT KILLED OFF THE FIRST NIGHT and so didn't get to argue with him at all? Argh! Seriously, fun game. Even though I was out I kept reading and couldn't believe how long it went. The role madness was pretty cool, but yeah, I can only image how I'd been feeling if I was still in the last few players there... And I loved the anonymous part too. I deliberately (since I was dead and there was no reason to) didn't try to figure anyone out. Just enjoyed the tale...

I've typically used Flickr, but for my latest review I used Imgur. Worked just fine.

GBC 25 Sweeper This is a slightly different review than normal. This is not a set review; it's an instructions review. PV Productions publishes a line of GBC instructions, made from existing Lego sets. This makes it very simple for new GBC builders, since you don't have to hunt down an array of parts via Bricklink. If you have one of the Technic sets, you have everything you need. Name: GBC 25 Sweeper Set Number: uses parts from 42049, Technic Mine Loader (originally retailed for $50; currently used sets are available for $30-40 on Bricklink) Pieces: n/a Price: €9.95 for the instructions Minifigs: 0 Theme: Technic, GBC I (and my sons) love watching GBC setups. The mechanisms used are fantastic and just fun to watch. I've seen the massive discussion threads in the Technic forum here recreating Akiyuki and other GBC designs. One drawback is the need to assemble an array of pieces, and there's often the need for rare pieces (like the chrome silver reflector dish that's beloved in GBC setups and so sells for multiple dollars EACH). PV Productions publishes a line of GBC instructions, where each design is a "C model" of an existing Technic set. As long as you have that set, you have all the pieces you need to build the GBC (except for the balls, which PV Productions also sells compatible, non-Lego balls). I bought a couple instruction sets to convert Technic sets I own into GBC modules. I did not buy the PV Productions balls - I didn't want to pay international shipping. After some googling for alternatives, I saw recommendations for 9/16" Delrin bearings. I ordered a bag of 100 of them on Amazon for $11.25 shipped. The Instructions PV Productions provides their instructions as downloadable PDF files. They are designed to be printable, but that would be costly, since they have the solid light blue backgrounds like many Lego sets do. Instead, you can easily use a computer or tablet to view it electronically. The files are password protected and have your account information (email, purchase date) across the bottom of each page to prevent piracy. Given that, I don't know why they restrict you to 3 downloads of each file. It seems like an unnecessary complication to the process and would cause extra customer support issues to arise. The instructions are reasonably easy to follow. The image quality is slightly less than Lego and occasionally the steps are difficult. It's obvious that they're generated by computer rather than hand-curated. Some steps aren't turned the best way to view the connections being made, and some steps would be easier to do in a different order. None are TOO difficult, so it's not too much of an issue. It is definitely a significant step up in difficulty though - not for small kids or someone who hasn't done much Technic building. Personally, I liked it. I'm a fan of the older instructions that added more pieces at once and were more complex. The current instruction style feels over-simplified to me. The GBC This GBC is designed to look like a trailer. There are wheels and a tow point at the front. However, it's not really usable as a trailer. The wheels are attached to pins, not axles, so they don't roll easily. That could be modified if you wanted; there's axles left over. And when you are operating it, there's a tool to lock the wheel in place (it's the assembly with the dark grey axle connector just above and to the right of the tire in this photo. The light grey axle goes through the pinhole in the wheel and into the frame of the GBC to keep it from rolling) There's also a few spots that feel like part usage just to use up pieces - such as the "light" made of a stack of clear studs on the upper edge. PV Productions also followed the Technic standard of including a piston engine in the set. In this case it's a tiny single cylinder design, but it works. It is pretty fragile and fiddly during the build process though. At the front, there is this axle with a pair of light grey 3L perpendicular connectors on it. It can rotate, flipping the connectors up. The only purpose I see is that adjusts the angle of the GBC by the tiniest of amounts. The feed tray for the balls is connected by this single point. That does make it wobble around, but that also is part of how it works. I have a feeling that if it was more rigidly attached, you'd have more ball feeding issues. The right-side tire is held out from the machine by this red bush. That is because it'd rub on he yellow liftarm if it wasn't out so far. That does make it feel a little unstable though. Since you can't really roll the unit around anyway, I removed that red bush on my setup to make it a bit more compact and stable. The Video This GBC runs very smoothly most of the time. If you don't put enough balls in, it does sometimes mis-feed and the ball not drop under the "antenna" piece. With 5 or so balls, it runs great. The manual does walk you though how to get the timing right of the lifting mechanism, but I found that if you just position them as shown in each step of assembly, it comes out working right. If you weren't paying that much attention to detail, you just need to remove the black gears, rotate each tan gear correctly, and put the black gears back on. The video also demonstrates the other party trick of the set. If you rotate the exhaust piece at the top of the path, the balls fall straight ahead, making it able to feed into a different GBC instead of returning them. The Conclusion This is a great introductory GBC set. It's easy to get the parts for, since it's all from one set. It runs well, and is a nice level of challenge to assemble. I think it makes a nice display on its own, but there's also room to modify it if you want. You could make it longer, improve the return ramp, etc, and that's part of the fun of GBC. The price seems reasonable on it's own, but when I look at the other, much larger, GBC designs that they sell, in comparison it feels a touch overpriced. This small set was ten euros, but instructions for much larger models are 13 to 25 euros. Given how much work must go into designing and then digitally modeling each set, none of it seems unreasonable. Now time for me to go work on the GBC 14 Strandbeest, built from the 42054 Tractor set...

Thanks Matt - it's a pretty solid design! The more I play with it, the more it's a great intro GBC model. It's not perfect, but mostly in "B-model" type ways (aka due to part limitations). Those make good opportunities to improve it and learn how to build a reliable GBC for long-running use. And the timing aspects of this one are simple to tweak if you didn't get it all lined up when you built it.

No, the shooter balls are a different size. GBC is designed to use the soccer or basketballs, which are slightly smaller than the shooter balls. Some of the Friends sets have started including the balls again, but for the most part, the genuine balls have to be bought from Bricklink or ebay.

Wow, you Europeans sure like parting out train sets. There's only a couple sellers on that in the US, and a hundred in Europe! A little bit jealous here... but that does swing the cost significantly. I was quoting the $50/ea retail price from Lego, and I didn't realize that they were SO much cheaper in the secondary markets.

Yes, you can, but those two hubs are $50 each!

I'm not sure why they put a limit - the PDF files are locked with your email as the password and your email and purchase info included on EVERY PAGE so it would be obvious if someone was passing them around. (yes, I'm sure that the PDF DRM isn't the greatest and probably could be removed, but if someone's going to that much work, nothing is going to stop them)

Even if not, there's already people with working PUP software - check out the long threads in the Train forum. The main one there can handle multiple PUP hubs already, so it can control an entire train layout. I'm sure it'd be trivial to add this Technic hub to it and have working Windows PC software to control it. No monthly cost needed to use it for this. Most people these days already have an old phone lying around that they could use without any actual phone service on it. They already exist in white, from two sets back in 2004: https://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?P=32054&colorID=1&in=A But pretty rare since each set only had a couple of them.

Yep, not sure it'll work in trains since people are reporting it's almost as big as the NXT brain - 6AA batteries instead of 6 AAA. However, if the demand is there, perhaps they could produce a AAA version with 4 ports for the train market, but I doubt Lego would see enough sales volume.

Keep in mind that Lego has never made a 7 function remote system before. There have been some (like 8275 bulldozer) with 4 functions that used 2 remotes to control it. This thing would take 4 remotes, and that's almost $100 more in retail cost to the set to include those! I suspect you'll be able to control 2 functions with a remote, if you have one, but the other advantage is the phone can have detailed, customized interfaces. It can handle a mix of on/off and "analog" controls. It can do so much more, and since it's open, even if Lego makes the app no longer work, plenty of people have alternatives already.

That is the key to EB mafia - it's possible to twist anything into sounding scummy, and then with the right pressure, convince others to agree. Thanks for the fun game! Town got hugely unlucky and scum got lucky; it happens. DARN IT! And I agree, I think it would be fun and helpful to have more forced "quirks" to help remove some of the meta-gaming and reading of people. Not sure quite how to make that work, since they need to be fun even for people who don't know the source material, but it'd be fun.

That is fantastic news. I like the AA battery setup (since anything using 4 motors is probably big, putting a bigger battery box shouldn't be a hassle and gets you much more runtime) and I'm glad that they're making more than 2 motor outputs. In my PUP review I called that out, that Technic for sure needed more outputs. I suspect (since it's using 2 hubs) that one's in the tread section and 1 in the body of the digger. The one in the treads would handle drive and probably rotation. That eliminates long drive systems for the treads or passing wires through the turntable. The upper one would handle all the digger arm with 4 motors.

As for the electronics - it sure looks like this is a new app using the Boost / PoweredUp system. However, they recognized (as did everyone looking at the current PUP system) that it needed more outputs. The current battery box can only handle 2 motors. This system has 7 motors and 2 new hubs, so it sounds like they're making a new "brain" unit that has 4 outputs. AWESOME!!!!!!!!! But yeah, that's why the high price. If you look, the current PUP hub (which is a battery box and bluetooth interface in one) retails for $50 alone!

Go go go! DARN IT!

It's been done many times. It's a different experience, since it eliminates the meta-game, someone is acting different than they usually do factor.

Thanks KotZ - fun theme and thanks for hosting!

So, your position is that Saying something is possible and even likely is the same thing as saying it's a 100%, guaranteed sure thing and therefore I must be scum to have that kind of insider knowledge When the voting was 9 to 4, with the lynchee committing suicide, the scum would still never all jump on a completely safe bandwagon When the voting was 9 to 4, the lynchee committed suicide relatively early in the day, and all four of the "against" votes were before that suicide, so if the scum had waited at all to vote (and they often do!) then they were all on the Lewis wagon BUT I MUST BE WRONG When the voting was 9 to 4, 3 of the "against" votes were placed before the suicide, the 4th voter (placed at the end of the day, knowing it didn't matter) has since been confirmed town, 1 is likely cleared, and so there's really only 2 possible scum left who could have voted against the wagon BUT I MUST BE WRONG And I haven't backed down, because MY LOGIC MAKES SENSE! Yes, there's a chance that Diane or Moore is scum. According to you, one of them must be. And yet YOU'RE VOTING TO LYNCH ME AND NOT THEM!

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he meant Benson, not you, based on what was said. Nope, not fishing at all. Benson has already revealed he's in contact with at least 2 other PRs. That's who I'm asking about. If there's more (and I hope there are, so the town can turn this disaster around) don't reveal them. BENSON, DON'T REVEAL ANY MORE PRS! Is that clear enough for you? Now, please show me where I ever said that all the scum WERE on the wagon. I said over and over they could be, because others were saying they weren't. I was trying to make people keep both options open, since it was such a weird vote. Why do you keep twisting everything I say? I try to help the town, and everything gets distorted. And as for "dodging the senator's question".... first, there's NO QUESTION in what you quoted. If you mean the comment that I'm "trying to distance discussion about" off-wagon voting, nothing is further from the truth. Go megablocking read everything I said. That's a perk of playing in this format - everything is there and can be reviewed. I never said don't talk about it. I never said everyone WAS on the wagon for sure. I was in fact INCREASING DISCUSSION by saying there are more possibilities. I WANTED people to discuss where the scum voted and look at things. Instead all that happened was people attacking me for trying to help. And you wanna talk off-wagon voters? Well, there were three. Bob, Moore, and Barry. Barry's dead, and confirmed CTU. Bob claims to have been cleared by the investigator. So that leaves just Agent Moore. So yep, there could be a scum who didn't vote for Lewis. But the statistical odds are, there wasn't. If all of you are so megablocking convinced that there must be a scum off the wagon, then go vote for Moore.