mostlytechnic

I tried playing on mafiascum long ago, after I'd been playing here for years. I hated it :) Just such a different experience, felt very contrived and overly logical since you were playing with strangers and there was no roleplaying stuff like here to get the conversation started. Amen! Agree a ton and yes it was fun. Been a while and to be honest, I felt really dumb a lot of the time. Like covid-brain has slowed me down even on this ;)

So you're acknowledging that if I'm not scum, we're going to lose. But yet you're still voting for me? Feels pretty naughty to me!

Depends on what town you're scumhunting in.... here in Christmastown and all the previous hunts I've been in around here, the naughty kill essentially counts as a PR almost all the time. I've definitely been on the bad side before where we had to pick abilities to lose as scum were caught so that the kill was just from a single player as their role (so if the scum killer was caught, the kill ability moved to a different scum and that scum lost their other ability). It's not 100%, but that's the norm around here.

You also mentioned it again at the beginning of today, when you asked "also no cult?" Why keep bringing it up without any discussion on it? And by that, I mean why bring it up when you don't have anything to say about it? I wasn't *trying* to act suspicious - I was having a conversation that went sorta off the rails a bit, but nothing major imho. And I didn't say I wanted a late flip to lynch one of us. I did NOT want a lynch at all with such a small group and little to go on, but I said that IF it happened it'd at least reveal a likely Naughty to us. Finding the silver lining. Based on the fact that I'm an odd-night reporter, I assume there's quite a few roles out there for me to potentially catch someone using. It's not super powerful though since it's A. only odd nights and B. just tells me if someone went out, not what they're doing or what their alignment is. It can hint at it (i.e. if I saw someone go out and someone died, there's a chance the person I saw was the naughty killer but not necessarily). I've assumed all along that there's quite a few mild abilities around, but that's just my assumption based on the role I got. And I think I'm pretty clear on who I think should be lynched today - I made my vote already and put my reasons with it! So, I'm assuming here you're our publishing cop. Sorry your ability got wasted thanks to a framer :( But just because that was a one time use doesn't mean everything is. It still fits my assumption that there's quite a few abilities around but they're probably all limited use in some way, either alternating nights or X number of uses. Also fits that no one died night 1 if the Naughty kill is likewise limited. Anyone out there have a protective or blocking role that stopped a night 1 kill? Why would alternating kill have meant we'd have seen one night 1? We DID see one night 2, so that's why I said I'm guessing they have even night kill ability. You're stuck on assuming that they have X number of kills since your role was one time use. Yes, if the scum could have killed night 1 they would have. So either they were not allowed (such as even night kill only) or they were stopped via a block/protect ability. There's a slim chance that a scum team with only 1 or 2 night kills to use would wait, especially after we had such a quiet day 1, hoping something interesting would happen day 2 to lead to a lynch so they could kill someone also and get a quick win if there's 2 of them. If there's 2 naughties, they wouldn't need to kill 2 nights plus get a lynch to win - just 2 of us nices dead means they win.

Seriously, I got targeted by both a publishing cop AND a framer in the same night? That's the only way I can come up with for what happened. I mean, I guess I was a logical target for both sides to look at after yesterday, but still.... and what a power combo to have in the game. It makes sense from a gameplay design position, it's just since I didn't know those were out there I drew too much attention to myself. I'm not Naughty. I'm on the Nice list, but I don't know how to prove that other than by my lynching tonight. I'll do my best though since that's what Nice Listers do. I'm an odd-night Nice Reporter. I can target someone and see if they go out at night. On night 1, I watched Clark and he did not go out. I do think some of you (ahem, Eloise...) are wrong. There's 2 scum. There'd have to be, for them to kill someone AND frame me in the same night. So if the game started out 3 Nice and 2 Naughty, we're now at 2 and 2, so we cannot afford any mistake or they'll outnumber us. Lynching me gives them the win. Here's what I suspect. With 2 naughty, that'd be way overpowered normally, so I bet they have even night kills. Therefore, noone died night 1. I've got an alternating night ability too. We didn't get a cop report from night 1, so I bet whoever has that role has alternating nights too. (in case anyone isn't familiar with less-common roles in this game.... a framer can make someone appear to be scum when they're actually town. It's usually not a very powerful scum ability, since you have to target someone with it AND the town cop target the same person, so it's not a very common role. In a small game where there's higher odds of the scum guessing who a town cop would want to investigate, it makes more sense. And a publishing cop is a special variation where the result gets announced to the whole game like we saw here. Someone said it was an announcing cop, but that's actually one where just the person investigated is told they were looked at) And while I'm still able, I will Vote: Eloise (Trekkie99) I think you're talking a lot and making misleading suggestions. Insisting still there can only be 1 naughty. Wanting a mass claim from the beginning. Suggesting cults in a tiny game where they would make no sense. Claiming vanilla townie right at the start to attract actual townies to target her so the scummos could find our power roles.

Oh, I've definitely thought about doing a late flip but I've decided against it. Yes, things feel weird between us. However, I believe Susan has done some exploring over in other towns that hunt Naughty listers and I have in the past too. Their style of hunting there is very different than in our Christmas town, so I think that's the cause of the differences here.

No, if I was going to switch my vote I would have. I'm mostly just trying to keep everyone talking more so we have stuff to consider for voting tomorrow.

Dang, you're just making it harder and harder not to vote for you. The only real way to think you're likely to survive is to be Naughty, and this feels like you're just prepping your defense for tomorrow. You survive because you're the Naughty one, and then tomorrow is all "see, I must be Nice because I was left alive to be a distraction"

Are you trying to get killed? You flat out call yourself evil :) And on top of that, what would possibly make you think you're likely to survive? You already claimed vanilla yesterday, so no reason for anyone to have contacted you privately. Also no reason for our protector (if we have one) or any other role to help you if you're just vanilla as claimed.

Well, that wasn't quite a last minute flip, nor did it hammer anyone.... still feels interesting to me. Wait, you reference George (Bob) but (Bob) is Clark who you voted changed your vote to. So I assume your reference to George there is a misspeak? This also took me a minute. I read back through the day looking for where you see Clark being self conscious about penalties. Then I realized that you meant he was careful NOT to get a penalty and you think that was Naughty. Gotcha.

True, but wouldn't that tell us something at least? There was a 3 way tie with two votes each when I placed mine, so a last-minute flip on someone who turned up Nice would indicate the flipper was a likely Naughty, wouldn't it? And now, everyone has voted and there's a FOUR way tie with 4 of us having two votes each. Only Clark is sitting there nice and relaxed with no votes on him.

With only 5, assuming both actions happened, it's 20%. So not terribly unlikely. Not likely, but far from unbelievable. Understandable. However, I'm going to Vote: Scott (Tariq J) simply as a retaliation vote :) There's plenty of time to change it if I see a reason, but I absolutely can't risk NOT voting today and getting penalized again....

Woo, first, gotta appreciate how George has clearly been paying good attention in our grammar class. Our teacher would be so proud.... Second, glad to still be here. It was a crazy evening of day 1 for me [aka the weekend] but still, sorry I wasn't around. Third.... not surprised by everyone surviving. Good chance we don't have a vig, or they've got limited use of their kill. And even if last night was a night able to use it, I wouldn't have if I was them. With so few people and nothing to go on, it's not worth the risk. 20% chance of killing the scum? That's not great and hard to justify risking knocking off a quarter of the town for. And similarly, good chance the scum have limited kill ability and/or got blocked somehow. Sometimes the Naughty have the ability to recruit. Instead of outright killing, they can convert a Nice Lister to a Naughty. That doesn't seem likely to me with such a small group though, since it adds a Naughty AND eliminates a Nice at the same time, so it's a bigger swing.

And not just that, an illogical evil Santa! It's going to take multiple DAYS to hunt down the naughty here, where surely he can get to the north pole and back in hours at most. He does afterall visit the whole world in one night...

Susan here!

Woo, a mafia game! I'm in! 1) Have you ever played Mafia before, and what's your experience? If not, have you read some of the games we've had on here? I think so, once or twice.... in fact, I think my avatar is still my character from the last one :) 2) Can you commit to the game timewise? Yup. 3) What is your preferred holiday present? My family hates getting presents for me because I tend to just get stuff for myself when I want it, so they can't find anything new for me. 4) For dead threads/scum threads, do you have a preference to use old boards like we did before, or Discord? Boards. I'm not a fan of discord, but I can figure it out enough if needed.

Ah, darn. Yeah, I realized too late that if we were wrong, we'd lose since the scum would nightkill a townie and it'd be 1:1. I almost convinced myself that Lily had to be the liar (2 cops was just too much) but didn't. Partially because I really DID find a game setup on mafiascum called the Yoguraimee C9, which is 7 players (2 cops, 1 doc, 2 vanilla town, 2 scum). I figured maybe Bob watered down one of the cops to parity cop since we only had 6 people. I also for some reason didn't really put much thought into why no scum kill night 2, but that's good since it was an unexpected vest that I didn't know I had :) If I HAD known, I probably would have guessed that they tried to kill me and maybe played day 2 and 3 a little different, like claimed right away day 3 with the info I knew. It's been ages since I've played a Mafia game, so I was seriously rusty. There's no way I should have fallen for that cop claim. Tariq, any particular reason you claimed to have investigated Shadows? That's really what did it - since I'd checked him out too, I fell for your claim way more than I should have. I feel like 6 is a tough way to play. It was way too quiet since there weren't many people, which means not much to actually go on or make accusations from. Normally by the time a game is down to 6 people, there's been days and days of talk to go over. Also, for what it's worth, I thought my parity cop role was fun but had the potential to be SUPER swingy in a game this small. Basically I learned nothing night 1, and then on night 2 I could potentially win the game if I happened to investigate the right people. In this case, I DID investigate one of the scum, but it was the one we lynched. If I'd only investigated Tariq instead of shadows (and I almost did) we would have won since I've have caught him. Oh well. Tariq and Duvors, congrats! And Classic_Spaceman, sorry we killed you by mistake, but you were fun to have around. I think you did the best character roleplay in the game.

So, we've got our 3 votes and now it's been so much silence.

After a bit of thought, I'm going to keep my vote as stated because it is possible that Lily and I are both telling the truth and we'll win with this lynch. However, there is a fair chance that Lily is lying. In that case, we'll know in the morning and can lynch her tomorrow. I'm a bit hesitant to believe that we would have two different cops in such a small scenario. I actually stopped at the MafiaScum.net store, looked through all their micro setups, and only found 1 that had multiple cops. Here's how Lily lying could work... this whole section is hypothetical. The scum have a tracker/watcher type role that saw me investigate Heather. Therefore Lily claims to have investigated Heather since they're assuming I know her alignment (they couldn't be sure WHAT role I have, but have to play it safe). She can claim anything about Robert since he was dead night 1, and Lily could be a killer who actually killed Robert, so claiming to have investigated in case someone from town saw her visit him that night. The lack of kill last night would be either because they alternate killing (Lily was night 1 and Sam supposed to be night 2), have limited night kills (only kill every other night or something), or we have some sort of protector.

I will believe your claim for now, because it matches some things I know. I am a Parity Cop. I can investigate someone every night and learn if they have the same alignment as the person the night before. Night 1 I investigated Sam. At that point I only was told my investigation was successful, not blocked by anyone. Night 2 I investigated Heather. I was told they were of different alignments. That's why I was quick to lynch Sam - learning his alignment after being lynched would tell me Heather's. Since Sam was scum, Heather is town. I therefore know the scum has to either be Lily or Phil. If we lynch Phil today and both Lily and I are telling the truth, we should win (I can't imagine a 50:50 town:scum mix). If Phil does flip town, then Lily must be lying and we lynch her tomorrow. Yes, I could be the one lying, but I'm not. Unvote: Lily (Tariq J) Vote: Phil (Classic_Spaceman)

Doesn't the scum kill move when the killer is killed? The other scum should get the ability. It's also possible, given how few people this street has, that the scum only kill every other night or something like that. Whatever happened last night, I'm looking forward to the post-hunt discussion to understand some things! Doesn't the scum kill move when the killer is killed? The other scum should get the ability. It's also possible, given how few people this street has, that the scum only kill every other night or something like that. Whatever happened last night, I'm looking forward to the post-hunt discussion to understand some things! And as promised earlier today.... Vote: Lily (Tariq j)

Yes, but I was a second vote on Sam, not a 4th. If anything, I created the bandwagon, not jumped on it :) Phil was the 3rd, and I don't see a scummo being the lynching vote on a fellow scum, unless they thought it was sure enough Sam was getting voted out and he wanted to have it as a defense. So yet another WIFOM situation... and that's why I pinged on Phil as also a likely scum, just not as likely in my estimation as you.

It is mandatory, but it doesn't mean you have to just jump on the bandwagon. Putting a bonus vote onto someone that flips scum is by no means definitive, but it does ping on my scum-dar. And to the second part, that's the point of WIFOM - it keeps us going in circles but at some point you just have to make a call. Again, not definitive, but it's about all we have to go on.

Woo, we got one! So now we have some actual data to look at. Yesterday he was clearly getting lynched, so he threw a vote on Lily. Time for the regularly scheduled (almost as regularly scheduled as my mail delivery!) WIFOM debate. For those new, that means "wine in front of me," referring to the classic Princess Bride scene with the poisoned wine. Sam knows if Lily is scum or not... would he have voted for her to throw suspicion on her or to protect her? At a simple level, scum wouldn't want to vote for scum. But this was a safe vote, so would he vote for a fellow scum, hoping we'd think he would not vote for scum? Or would he know we'd think it was safe and suspect the person, so he voted for an innocent person? Ack! You can go round and round for days. Looking at day 1... He put the first vote of the day on me. It was a logical, normal, "Get this quiet person to talk" vote. Nothing really there and made him look like a good little townie. Next, there were two votes on Phil. Sam could have switched his vote to Phil, but he didn't. He changed it to someone with no votes. That makes me think Phil could be the other scummo. But maybe it was just too early in the day. In that case (Phil is innocent), then I would have to think that Lily is scum since she put a 3rd vote on Phil near the end of the day, trying to finish him off. But no one else was around I guess to join. I guess all that wordiness is to say.... my gut read with a little bit of vote analysis is that Heather is a fellow townie with me and either Phil or Lily is the scum. It's just a gut feel from looking at how the other days went. But then I look again at yesterday. Heather and I had voted for Sam. He was in definite danger. Phil put on vote 3, which doesn't feel like something a scum would have done. There was time to try and turn things around or at least split the vote. Lily put an un-needed 4th vote on Sam. THAT does feel like something his partner would do... so when the time comes, I'm going to be voting Lily today unless something else comes up. Thoughts from others?

I think we do need to make progress so we don't just die off from starvation. I'll join you, Heather, and Vote: Sam (Duvors)