Red Menace Mafia: Day One - Ice Station Zebra

[CMP]

I know you've gotten rusty at these things, but is there any chance of a Christopher lynching today?

I think he said earlier he doesn't even want a lynch. Hold on...

[JimBee]

Starting a new lynch on Christopher this late in the day is throwing your vote in the garbage. There can't be a lynch on him now without very strong reasons to motivate everyone. If you think he's scummy, saying so will give him the push he needs. No reason to waste your vote doing so.

I haven't seen a tally for a while (at work, on my phone, so I can't research much), but I think a vote not for Claire, Jerry, or Monty (they are the vote leaders, if I recall correctly) is a kind of non-vote.

No, because he's starting a new lynch at a late point in the day. It's a guaranteed non-lynch.

I know you've gotten rusty at these things, but is there any chance of a Christopher lynching today?

Well that's kind of a flawed argument... Everyone should express their suspicions regardless of a possible lynch or not. Maybe not in the form of a permanent vote or a push for the lynch of said suspicious person, but suspicion nonetheless. You narrowing the "options" down to three people is both unhelpful and scummy.

[CMP]

I think he said earlier he doesn't even want a lynch. Hold on...

Sorry, my mistake. (Or rather his that he corrected with another post). But I don't really think it's constructive to unvote somebody when people start agreeing with your vote and voting along with you. And it certainly doesn't give the impression that you want a lynch.

[def]

Well that's kind of a flawed argument... Everyone should express their suspicions regardless of a possible lynch or not. Maybe not in the form of a permanent vote or a push for the lynch of said suspicious person, but suspicion nonetheless. You narrowing the "options" down to three people is both unhelpful and scummy.

Where did I say they couldn't voice suspicions? I said they could voice suspicions without wasting a vote. Misleading the town is pretty scummy.

You not being able to understand things is a trend today.

You still haven't explained why the investigator would waste an investigation on someone who already claimed they'd be investigated as scum. Can you explain why you think that is?

[jimmynick]

Vote Tally:

Monty Thornton (mostlytechnic): 3 (Bob, Peanuts, jluckhaupt)

Christopher Milton Poindexter (CallMePie): 1 (mostlytechnic)

Trevor Knowles (TrumpetKing): 1 (JimBee)

Claire Novak (Calanon): 2 (adventurer1, Speedy)

Jerry Bergeron (JimBee): 3 (PirateDave84, CallMePie, Endgame)

13 players remain, so 7 votes are required for a majority and a lynch.

13 hours remain in the day!

1 hour remains in today's puzzle!

[mostlytechnic]

Dang, got a weird situation here. I poke Christopher and now have Spencer saying that's a waste but Chris is almost daring me to keep my vote in place.

It's late and I'm going to bed. Before I do, I agree that time for poking is over and so I want to make my vote count.

Unvote: Christopher Milton Poindexter (CallMePie)

Vote: Jerry Bergeron (JimBee)

Christopher DID show up and start talking just like a poke should accomplish. Jerry on the other hand has been talking a LOT but lots of questionable things.... comments about investigating Trevor, etc. I'm not sure why he seems so sure that the miller claim is scummy. It COULD be a scum trick (if they decided to try something like that, a crew this size would be unlikely to have a miller to counter claim) but that would still be a very gutsy move. I'm still more inclined to accept the claim as probably true, so Jerry just seems like he saw a potential weak point to attack and has gone after it hard.

[JimBee]

Where did I say they couldn't voice suspicions? I said they could voice suspicions without wasting a vote. Misleading the town is pretty scummy.

You not being able to understand things is a trend today.

You still haven't explained why the investigator would waste an investigation on someone who already claimed they'd be investigated as scum. Can you explain why you think that is?

I understand things fine, thanks though. I think you're exaggerating where votes need to be placed - plenty of people haven't even voted yet, so voicing his suspicion and placing a vote is hardly misleading the town. It is misleading, however, to say that we have only three options today.

I'm not saying that an investigator is going to investigate Trevor after his claim, I'm saying either Trevor doesn't want to be investigated or if he is, will present his early claim as irrefutable evidence that he is town. It already seems that some, like Edward, believe this. In addition, apparently Trevor is well-known around these parts and it is a popular opinion that he's a good candidate for an early investigation. If this is true, a miller claim might protect him.

Does that answer your question? These points, along with the fact that he's been silent since, lead me to believe his lynch will clear up everything about his claim and give a lot of insight to those who have defended and attacked him. But I guess none of you are for that.

Dang, got a weird situation here. I poke Christopher and now have Spencer saying that's a waste but Chris is almost daring me to keep my vote in place.

It's late and I'm going to bed. Before I do, I agree that time for poking is over and so I want to make my vote count.

Unvote: Christopher Milton Poindexter (CallMePie)

Vote: Jerry Bergeron (JimBee)

Christopher DID show up and start talking just like a poke should accomplish. Jerry on the other hand has been talking a LOT but lots of questionable things.... comments about investigating Trevor, etc. I'm not sure why he seems so sure that the miller claim is scummy. It COULD be a scum trick (if they decided to try something like that, a crew this size would be unlikely to have a miller to counter claim) but that would still be a very gutsy move. I'm still more inclined to accept the claim as probably true, so Jerry just seems like he saw a potential weak point to attack and has gone after it hard.

...Meanwhile I guess this argument is stronger than mine? "COULD be a scum trick", "Doesn't seem scummy but will vote for Jerry anyway"... Overall a lot of "could be's" and speculation that, to me, seems flimsier than my "could be's" but I guess it's possible that I've been out of the loop of submarining too long to realize that things have changed drastically.

And Monty has changed his vote again. Surprise, surprise, a little suspicion on his indecisiveness and he follows the crowd, after seeming to not want a lynch at all. But hey, I guess he knows I'm town and will probably bet on being safe in the crowd who voted for me. Better me than him, right?

Unvote: Trevor (TrumpetKing)

Vote: Monty (mostlytechnic)

I guess you're right about needing to focus our votes, Spencer, so if no one really thinks Trevor is suspicious like I do, then I guess it's the next best thing.

For the record, Edward still seems suspicious to me as well, for defending Trevor and thinking he's more likely to be town because of the claim, but so does Monty for his indecisiveness and reasons listed above.

[Mencot]

You don't think Jerry is scummy but you voted for him? Then you take the vote off the moment you're called out for it?

Personally, I don't think you are scum per se, but I at least think you're scummy. If you though you weren't scummy, I wouldn't want to poke you.

That's bad acting, bad reasoning...

Great that you're keeping an eye on me. And on Jerry who thinks you're scummy. That old 'he thinks I'm scummy therefore he is scummy,' strategy. AKA the badboy technique.

If only we can get all the scum to call you scummy, you'll have this wrapped up in no time flat!

So Monty, you definitely don't want a lynch today. Noted.

Half the time I don´t even know what your saying but one thing is sure you always act like an a'', you manipulator . I know it is your thing and I seems to work like a charm but it is totally annoying.

I understand things fine, thanks though. I think you're exaggerating where votes need to be placed - plenty of people haven't even voted yet, so voicing his suspicion and placing a vote is hardly misleading the town. It is misleading, however, to say that we have only three options today.

I'm not saying that an investigator is going to investigate Trevor after his claim, I'm saying either Trevor doesn't want to be investigated or if he is, will present his early claim as irrefutable evidence that he is town. It already seems that some, like Edward, believe this. In addition, apparently Trevor is well-known around these parts and it is a popular opinion that he's a good candidate for an early investigation. If this is true, a miller claim might protect him.

Does that answer your question? These points, along with the fact that he's been silent since, lead me to believe his lynch will clear up everything about his claim and give a lot of insight to those who have defended and attacked him. But I guess none of you are for that.

...Meanwhile I guess this argument is stronger than mine? "COULD be a scum trick", "Doesn't seem scummy but will vote for Jerry anyway"... Overall a lot of "could be's" and speculation that, to me, seems flimsier than my "could be's" but I guess it's possible that I've been out of the loop of submarining too long to realize that things have changed drastically.

And Monty has changed his vote again. Surprise, surprise, a little suspicion on his indecisiveness and he follows the crowd, after seeming to not want a lynch at all. But hey, I guess he knows I'm town and will probably bet on being safe in the crowd who voted for me. Better me than him, right?

Unvote: Trevor (TrumpetKing)

Vote: Monty (mostlytechnic)

I guess you're right about needing to focus our votes, Spencer, so if no one really thinks Trevor is suspicious like I do, then I guess it's the next best thing.

For the record, Edward still seems suspicious to me as well, for defending Trevor and thinking he's more likely to be town because of the claim, but so does Monty for his indecisiveness and reasons listed above.

I hope the investigator won´t be so stupied that he investigates the miller for his claim. What good will it do? The guy has claimed and now he needs to prove himself useful in has every other townie. As said before if he thinks claiming that makes him 100 % town and thinks he doesn´t have to do anything after that he is wrong. So in my opinion lynching him now on day 1 to test the claim would be a bit useless, when there are some others to smell of first day scum (if not all of us)

[jluck]

Vote Tally:

Monty Thornton (mostlytechnic): 3 (Bob, Peanuts, jluckhaupt)

Christopher Milton Poindexter (CallMePie): 1 (mostlytechnic)

Trevor Knowles (TrumpetKing): 1 (JimBee)

Claire Novak (Calanon): 2 (adventurer1, Speedy)

Jerry Bergeron (JimBee): 3 (PirateDave84, CallMePie, Endgame)

13 players remain, so 7 votes are required for a majority and a lynch.

13 hours remain in the day!

1 hour remains in today's puzzle!

I am hitting the quarters for a few hours but I'll meet you all back in the mess hall for a discussion in the morning. For the record, I stand by my vote. Monty is by far the most suspicion to me and I want to have that on the record. If things change and my vote is needed for a lynch tomorrow I will consider a change if it benifits the town. For now, I encourage you all to seriously consider Monty, we are at 4 votes now I believe, and need 7 total. We may be wrong, but he is the only one who has acted "fishy" all day.

Check in soon...

[Mencot]

I am hitting the quarters for a few hours but I'll meet you all back in the mess hall for a discussion in the morning. For the record, I stand by my vote. Monty is by far the most suspicion to me and I want to have that on the record. If things change and my vote is needed for a lynch tomorrow I will consider a change if it benifits the town. For now, I encourage you all to seriously consider Monty, we are at 4 votes now I believe, and need 7 total. We may be wrong, but he is the only one who has acted "fishy" all day.

Check in soon...

Okay (not ok-ey), but one question (and this is not something to change the point away from him) is he more fishy then the others that have votes on themselves (considering it is day 1). I know we need a lynch, so we have something better to go on tomorrow.

[def]

I understand things fine, thanks though. I think you're exaggerating where votes need to be placed - plenty of people haven't even voted yet, so voicing his suspicion and placing a vote is hardly misleading the town. It is misleading, however, to say that we have only three options today.

I'm not saying that an investigator is going to investigate Trevor after his claim, I'm saying either Trevor doesn't want to be investigated or if he is, will present his early claim as irrefutable evidence that he is town. It already seems that some, like Edward, believe this. In addition, apparently Trevor is well-known around these parts and it is a popular opinion that he's a good candidate for an early investigation. If this is true, a miller claim might protect him.

Does that answer your question? These points, along with the fact that he's been silent since, lead me to believe his lynch will clear up everything about his claim and give a lot of insight to those who have defended and attacked him. But I guess none of you are for that.

Wow. That was interesting.

I didn't say placing a vote was misleading, I said it was a wasted vote/non-vote, since it isn't going to lead to a lynch. That "misleading the town is scummy" comment referred to you, midleader! People can vote for whoever they want, but they should know a vote for someone nobody else is voting for isn't helping in the last hours of the day. Those types of votes need to be done early.

You did specifically say that Trevor's claim would waste an investigation (I'm pretty sure I quoted you saying that). And you ignore the risk involved in making a false claim day one, despite it being pointed out to you.

What would lynching him prove? If he came up scum, we'd know you were town, but if he comes up town, we'd mainly know that most of the town assumed a day one claim to be true... Except for you. At the same time, if you turn up scum, we'll be fairly sure Trevor is town.

I had thought Claire had two votes when I placed mine, but it seems the best choice today, at this point, is Jerry or Monty. Monty is erratic, but Jerry has been saying a lot of faulty logic, and twisting words when the what was said was there to see.

Unvote: Claire

Vote: Jerry (JimBee)

Half the time I don´t even know what your saying but one thing is sure you always act like an a'', you manipulator . I know it is your thing and I seems to work like a charm but it is totally annoying.

It's called 'playing.' I look forward to you trying it sometime

I do agree with Jerry that it would be good if Trevor woke up.

[JimBee]

I'm not the one twisting words, Spencer. Or "playing" as you call it. I'm well aware of the risk taken to make a claim on Day One, and I've explained my reasoning already. It's a hell of a lot more than what you've offered, and your vote to Claire could be seen as just as useless because she only had one other vote on her, and for what, being silent? If Claire has actually been following along, don't you think she would have spoken up by now? Being silent does not equal scum by any means, and if she hasn't spoken today then she'll be killed by the captain anyway.

Talk about throwing away votes.

In addition, if you think a Day One claim is a big risk to take for scum, how about my fervent accusations on said claimer? I could have easily sat back and let someone like Claire get lynched instead, avoiding all suspicion whatsoever. Instead, I chose to voice my own suspicions and now I'm getting attacked for it? More "flawed logic", quite hypocritical today aren't we, Spencer?

And again, you've narrowed down our choices for us - manipulative indeed. You've been saying all day that we need lynch one of these people - perhaps there's something you know that we don't. And you've joined the bandwagon. If I'm lynched and tomorrow I turn up town, who's next? Surely you'll try to narrow the choices down for us, just as long as they're not your scum buddies, right?

[Mencot]

It's called 'playing.' I look forward to you trying it sometime

I do agree with Jerry that it would be good if Trevor woke up.

Haahahaa, you are so annoying you know

I'm not the one twisting words, Spencer. Or "playing" as you call it. I'm well aware of the risk taken to make a claim on Day One, and I've explained my reasoning already. It's a hell of a lot more than what you've offered, and your vote to Claire could be seen as just as useless because she only had one other vote on her, and for what, being silent? If Claire has actually been following along, don't you think she would have spoken up by now? Being silent does not equal scum by any means, and if she hasn't spoken today then she'll be killed by the captain anyway.

Talk about throwing away votes.

In addition, if you think a Day One claim is a big risk to take for scum, how about my fervent accusations on said claimer? I could have easily sat back and let someone like Claire get lynched instead, avoiding all suspicion whatsoever. Instead, I chose to voice my own suspicions and now I'm getting attacked for it? More "flawed logic", quite hypocritical today aren't we, Spencer?

And again, you've narrowed down our choices for us - manipulative indeed. You've been saying all day that we need lynch one of these people - perhaps there's something you know that we don't. And you've joined the bandwagon. If I'm lynched and tomorrow I turn up town, who's next? Surely you'll try to narrow the choices down for us, just as long as they're not your scum buddies, right?

That is Spencer´s game of choice mixing and manipulating everything. It is so hard to tell if he is serious or not. Annoying manipulator is what he is but I do give some credit for his playing style

[def]

Jerry, vote for whoever you like. I'm not stopping anyone. Nor am I trying to.

If you think it's a good idea to vote for someone with no votes, go for it. I personally think it's a useless gesture, and so I'm going to let it be known. You can call that manipulation if you like, I call it being sensible.

[Mencot]

Coming back to Trevor case, there is something seriously to consider tomorrow (and can be thought about today) what this guy is doing! What, he has said 1 or 2 thing all day? That doesn´t look like he cars much (even if he was busy IRL)

[def]

Well that's probably just what he's thinking. He's aware that there's an investigator out there - if he is scum or a spy, he knows he'll draw the first investigation to himself and use the claim thereafter. If he is scum that's an easy way to start an infiltrated town block.

I'm not saying that an investigator is going to investigate Trevor after his claim, I'm saying either Trevor doesn't want to be investigated or if he is, will present his early claim as irrefutable evidence that he is town.

Hmm, now that I'm home, I have a chance to check the record, and yeah, you said that the investigator would investigate Trevor.

I think it's great to voice suspicions, and but I don't think it's good to mislead the whole town, much less completely contradict yourself.

It's a hell of a lot more than what you've offered, and your vote to Claire could be seen as just as useless because she only had one other vote on her, and for what, being silent? If Claire has actually been following along, don't you think she would have spoken up by now? Being silent does not equal scum by any means, and if she hasn't spoken today then she'll be killed by the captain anyway.

I haven't seen a tally for a while (at work, on my phone, so I can't research much), but I think a vote not for Claire, Jerry, or Monty (they are the vote leaders, if I recall correctly) is a kind of non-vote.

I had thought Claire had two votes when I placed mine, but it seems the best choice today, at this point, is Jerry or Monty. Monty is erratic, but Jerry has been saying a lot of faulty logic, and twisting words when the what was said was there to see.

Good job reading

[mostlytechnic]

And Monty has changed his vote again. Surprise, surprise, a little suspicion on his indecisiveness and he follows the crowd, after seeming to not want a lynch at all. But hey, I guess he knows I'm town and will probably bet on being safe in the crowd who voted for me. Better me than him, right?

For now, I encourage you all to seriously consider Monty, we are at 4 votes now I believe, and need 7 total. We may be wrong, but he is the only one who has acted "fishy" all day.

I had thought Claire had two votes when I placed mine, but it seems the best choice today, at this point, is Jerry or Monty. Monty is erratic, but Jerry has been saying a lot of faulty logic, and twisting words when the what was said was there to see.

Wow. Just wow. Yes, I've placed 3 different votes today. (FYI, so have you spencer!). However, the first two I did exactly what I said I would. They were pokes, not permanent votes. Claire was quiet so I poked. Others started poking, so I unvoted and didn't immediately vote because there wasn't anyone yet I felt worthy of a vote. Then I poked Chris. He responded, so I unvoted him too. So both times, I did exactly what you all should have expected me to based on what I said! How on earth is THAT erratic? Or indecisive? Or fishy?

and your vote to Claire could be seen as just as useless because she only had one other vote on her, and for what, being silent? If Claire has actually been following along, don't you think she would have spoken up by now? Being silent does not equal scum by any means, and if she hasn't spoken today then she'll be killed by the captain anyway.

Y'all really need to pay more attention. Claire did made one comment at the very start of the day, so she's followed the rules. She won't get attacked by the commander for that. (and to be technically correct, you made another error there in that he's a commander, not a captain). And there is no rule that you HAVE to vote. But anyone not voting is indeed terribly suspicious and at the very least, a bad American. And on that count, so far, Tervor, Malcolm, and Claire are all unvoting. Means right now we effectively have to get 7 out of TEN to get a lynch and that's way harder than 7/13.

Quiet is also being a bad American. Claire obviously has been nearly silent. Trevor as well. A couple others are definitely too quiet (Chris, Adrienne, Patrick, Edward, Boris) But focusing on Claire and Trevor for a moment, Claire has been around during her silence. Trevor has not. I don't like either case, but Trevor's case is less suspicious - if he's been asleep all day that explains his quietness. She has no excuse. I think it's too late in the day to switch votes again, but Claire is definitely on my radar for future days. As is the rest of that list.

[Mencot]

Wow. Just wow. Yes, I've placed 3 different votes today. (FYI, so have you spencer!). However, the first two I did exactly what I said I would. They were pokes, not permanent votes. Claire was quiet so I poked. Others started poking, so I unvoted and didn't immediately vote because there wasn't anyone yet I felt worthy of a vote. Then I poked Chris. He responded, so I unvoted him too. So both times, I did exactly what you all should have expected me to based on what I said! How on earth is THAT erratic? Or indecisive? Or fishy?

You mean you see 3 like minded here or?

It is day 1 so I can say I don´t have anything much to go on but as Monty, Spencer has also been all over the place with votes... But as someone said I think they all have been pokes, pushes or similar or what did you call them.

I did it also to get the one I voted for to speak up. I am still finding him suspicious but I will still have to think about, will I vote for him or will it be some other lame day 1 suspicion!

I

[jluck]

Ok we're running low on time, and we're not really getting anywhere. If we see any value in a lynch (which we clearly must) we need to pull it together in some consensus. As I stated previously, I will change my vote to accomplish a lynch, but I feel most secure with my current vote. Come on people, get those votes in! Not voting is dangerous, to the crew as well as the one not voting...

[mostlytechnic]

You mean you see 3 like minded here or?

Not sure what you're asking me...

Ok we're running low on time, and we're not really getting anywhere. If we see any value in a lynch (which we clearly must) we need to pull it together in some consensus. As I stated previously, I will change my vote to accomplish a lynch, but I feel most secure with my current vote. Come on people, get those votes in! Not voting is dangerous, to the crew as well as the one not voting...

Yep, not voting is a total scum-supporting move. (and was that a subtle hint at night abilities there at the end?....)

[jluck]

Not sure what you're asking me...

Yep, not voting is a total scum-supporting move. (and was that a subtle hint at night abilities there at the end?....)

I don't mean to give the wrong impression of myself having abilities, but that those who skip voting are making themselves targets, both for night abilities and day votes. How much time do we have left?

[Peanuts]

Yep, not voting is a total scum-supporting move. (and was that a subtle hint at night abilities there at the end?....)

Why would you ask that?

I will stick with my vote. Unfortunately, I might not be around when the Day ends. I'll try to, but I probably won't be.

But I agree it's important that we convict somebody, be it Monty or Jerry, so we have something to follow up on tomorrow.

[mostlytechnic]

Why would you ask that?

Oh gimme a break. Obviously I wasn't seriously asking. If he was the vig surely he wouldn't be dumb enough to say something like that. And doubly so that I wouldn't expect anyone to claim now. And obviously he's exactly right that not voting is dangerous both in being a vig target AND lynch targets for tomorrow. Please tell me no one took my question seriously even though I didn't put a wink after it!

I will stick with my vote. Unfortunately, I might not be around when the Day ends. I'll try to, but I probably won't be.

But I agree it's important that we convict somebody, be it Monty or Jerry, so we have something to follow up on tomorrow.

I hope you do show back up, since right now I've got 4 votes on me and 5 on Jerry and we have 3 non-voters, which means no lynch is going to happen. You keeping your vote on the lower vote count target (yes, me) is keeping that deadlock. And that makes no sense. And looks scummy. I know I'm loyal and so is it possible that you're scum trying to protect your scum buddy Jerry? If you're both scum then a no-lynch is better than a Jerry lynch from your viewpoint, just saying....

[jimmynick]

Vote Tally:

Monty Thornton (mostlytechnic): 4 (Bob, Peanuts, jluckhaupt, JimBee)

Claire Novak (Calanon): 1 (adventurer1)

Jerry Bergeron (JimBee): 4 (PirateDave84, CallMePie, Endgame, mostlytechnic)

13 players remain, so 7 votes are required for a majority and a lynch.

3 hours remain in the day!

Vote Tally:

Monty Thornton (mostlytechnic): 4 (Bob, Peanuts, jluckhaupt, JimBee)

Claire Novak (Calanon): 1 (adventurer1)

Jerry Bergeron (JimBee): 5 (PirateDave84, CallMePie, Endgame, mostlytechnic, Speedy)

13 players remain, so 7 votes are required for a majority and a lynch.

3 hours remain in the day!

[mostlytechnic]

Commander, you missed a vote against Jerry in post #111 by Spencer.