Are Inika builds really that awkwardly-proportioned?

[Lord-Vorahk]

I've noticed that people rag on the Inika builds a lot, for having "inhuman" proportions, mostly relating to monkey arms and thin torsos.

My first reaction to this was "Yeah, that looks a little odd". Then I thought... "Uh, duh. Of course they're not fully humanoid. They're not human. Expecting them to have entirely humanoid proportions is a bit odd, isn't it?"

Then I went and looked at the 2001 sets, and I noticed that they weren't all that different.

Torsos

2006: 3-4 studs deep, head/face sticks out further than the chest when masked.

2001: Much chunkier for their size, 2-3 studs deep, but the head still sticks out a fair bit further than the chest when masked, even on Tahu, Lewa, Kopaka, and Gali. This mainly stems from the torso being a giant gearbox.

Limbs:

2006: Arms are, as standard, a stud shorter than the legs, or maybe two studs, I dunno.

2001: Arms are, as standard, the same length as legs.

It gets worse if you take into account the small sets of 2001. They're one stud thick, and their arms are longer than their legs, and while the 2006 Matoran (And one Great Being) are also similar, they're supposed to be malformed and twisted, and they have more torso depth.

The 2002 Toa Nuva are about the same in limb proportions as the 2006 sets, and while they're bulkier, they're supposed to be more heavily armoured. When you look at the sizes and shapes of Toa across the franchise, you could argue that the more humanoid Metru are the misfits, while the rest of the Toa and Matoran have their less-humanoid as-standard builds.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the 2008 Toa Nuva being so lacking in bulk, unless you assume that Adaptive Armour is more form-fitting than the standard Nuva armour.

[DuckBricks]

I agree... I'm not sure why the Inika were targeted as such. Must have been the MOCers deep-seated hatred for those "useless" rubber masks.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I agree... I'm not sure why the Inika were targeted as such. Must have been the MOCers deep-seated hatred for those "useless" rubber masks.

Truth be told, I do hate the masks, but I find that theother parts are perfectly useful, and the Mahri are pretty good. Hell, the Phantoka and Mistika aren't good representations of the Toa Nuva, nor are the Glatorian good likenesses of organic beings with cybernetics, but as sets, they're mostly fine.

[WARHEAD]

Yes, the Inika proportions are horrid, they're indefensible.

Edited July 11, 2014 by WARHEAD

[Lord-Vorahk]

Yes, the Inika proportions are horrid, they're indefensible.

Any major reasons why?

[WARHEAD]

You've kind of already listed most of them, there's the apish arms, the flat thin torsos the, huge feet, the stalk necks, the arms and legs of the same length and I could go on. While I can undersntd the argument of it being stylized and intentional, the end result just does not look good at all, in mine, and as you've said, many other people's opinions. The Toa sets that had proportions closest to those of humans were the Metru. And while the Mata also have stylized proportions, theirs just work much better than those of an Inika build, again, just my opinion.

Plus, the Mata didn't have the whole thin torso and long, thin neck problem.

[Lord-Vorahk]

You've kind of already listed most of them, there's the apish arms, the flat thin torsos the, huge feet, the stalk necks, the arms and legs of the same length and I could go on. While I can undersntd the argument of it being stylized and intentional, the end result just does not look good at all, in mine, and as you've said, many other people's opinions. The Toa sets that had proportions closest to those of humans were the Metru. And while the Mata also have stylized proportions, theirs just work much better than those of an Inika build, again, just my opinion.

Plus, the Mata didn't have the whole thin torso and long, thin neck problem.

Apish arms like the Matoran had every year barring 04? And the Toa had every year barring in 04? That are pretty much normal?

The torsos aren't all that thin, I think the problem is that the shoulders are XBOXHUEG. If they were thinner, then it wouldn't look so bad.

The neck thing, I'll agree with, but the subsequent reworkings of the build, (Mahri) fixed this problem.

The feet are something that I don't mind. I like stability, and a large foot often helps.

The arms are shorter than the legs.

I actually prefer the style of the Mahri to the Mata.

[Aanchir]

Inika builds are not awkward by definition. It is possible to use a Toa Inika torso to build a decently proportioned figure.

The issue is not the similarity in length between the arms and the legs, nor is it the thickness of the torso (contrary to what I often see people complain about). In fact, the torso has generally the same proportions a Toa Metru torso would have when fully assembled, shoulders and all.

The issue, rather, is the length of the legs and arms relative to the torso. Generally, the hips of a figure should be about halfway up the figure's height — thus, the distance from the base of the feet to the hips should be roughly the same as the distance from the hips to the top of the mask. The distance between the base of the feet and the hips on a Toa Mata is 11.5 modules, and the distance from the hips to the top of the mask is 10.5 modules. Hardly any difference. In contrast, the distance between the base of the feet and the hips on a Toa Inika is 15.5 modules, but the distance from the hips to the top of the head is just 12.5 modules. That's a difference of three modules. This makes the legs look awkward and gangly.

Even more problematic are the arms. Generally, when posed with their arms at their sides, a figures wrists should be level with or slightly below their hips. With the Toa Inika, their elbows were level with their hips, and their wrists were level with their knees. This is flat-out wrong. Toa Mata were not perfect either by that reckoning — the way Toa Mata Lewa's shoulders were built gave his right elbow much the same problem, and his left arm (while a much better length) lacked an elbow entirely.

The shoulders were also rather exaggerated — the horizontal distance from shoulder to shoulder was four modules more than the vertical distance from shoulder to hip. But this is a proportion that can be exaggerated in some cases to create a muscular look (and as I said before, it was really no worse than the Toa Metru's proportions). It was somewhat absurd for female Toa, though.

Some sets, like Kiina, are even worse with respect to both the arms AND the legs on account of having an even smaller torso and even longer arms than a Toa Inika. To be fair, her shoulders were a lot more realistically proportioned than those of any canister set that used a Toa Inika or Toa Mahri torso. But this was undermined by the length of the arms and legs. If she had been more petite in general, with shorter legs and arms, she would have looked much better.

A lot of people hold the Toa Metru up as an example of ideal Toa proportions. This is not entirely fair, since as with some figures that used an Inika build, there was a stark difference between the length of the arms and the length of the legs. And the width of the shoulders was basically unchanged. With the CCBS it is much easier to create a reasonably proportioned figure since pretty much every single beam comes in a wide range of sizes.

Obviously, BIONICLE and Hero Factory figures are not human. Doesn't matter. Regardless of that excuse, the people who are going to be looking at and trying to identify with a figure from either theme are going to be human, so unless you want the figure to be visibly exaggerated or even monstrous in proportion, it's best to aim for roughly humanoid proportions when possible.

One final note: I ought to mention that I did love the Toa Inika torso. Regardless of its realism, it was without question the most versatile torso beam as a building element, with plentiful connection points, good articulation, and a very basic shape. The blocky, columnlike torso beams of Toa Mata and Toa Metru were far more specialized, hence why you never saw them used for any sets other than Toa or combi models that included Toa. Still, I am glad we have moved past the Toa Inika torso as a standard for mid-size sets.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Aanchir

[Lord-Vorahk]

Pretty good argument, I have to admit.

I think Inika torsos can be made to look better simply by attaching the Metru hip beam a notch lower, like on Mata Nui and Ackar.

While aiming for those proportions is good, I do have to point out that there are plenty of non-human characters that don't follow that ideal. I think the standout is probably one Mickey Mouse.

Yeah, I hated that the lone female character was typically the manliest set in the wave. Hahli Inika had her slaphead and mustache, and the bulkier forearms. Hahli Mahri had the slightly-wider Piraka torso for some unfathomable reason, but was otherwise pretty good. Gali Mistika was bulkier than her wavemates and had a rather ugly mask. Kiina had her badly-designed arms and an exposed lantern jaw. Hell, it took Breeze until Brain Attack to get the narrower torso beam (Though I did like her Samus-esque bulk in Breakout). Gorast has the opposite problem: You'd expect her to be amazonian in build, but her limbs were as thin as the Mata, and she was completely lacking a chestplate.

I've seen Metru torsos used as lower limbs. It looks pretty good.

[Aanchir]

Pretty good argument, I have to admit.

I think Inika torsos can be made to look better simply by attaching the Metru hip beam a notch lower, like on Mata Nui and Ackar.

While aiming for those proportions is good, I do have to point out that there are plenty of non-human characters that don't follow that ideal. I think the standout is probably one Mickey Mouse.

Yeah, I hated that the lone female character was typically the manliest set in the wave. Hahli Inika had her slaphead and mustache, and the bulkier forearms. Hahli Mahri had the slightly-wider Piraka torso for some unfathomable reason, but was otherwise pretty good. Gali Mistika was bulkier than her wavemates and had a rather ugly mask. Kiina had her badly-designed arms and an exposed lantern jaw. Hell, it took Breeze until Brain Attack to get the narrower torso beam (Though I did like her Samus-esque bulk in Breakout). Gorast has the opposite problem: You'd expect her to be amazonian in build, but her limbs were as thin as the Mata, and she was completely lacking a chestplate.

I've seen Metru torsos used as lower limbs. It looks pretty good.

Yes, stretching the Inika torso out like some post-2006 sets did is definitely an option that helps reduce the wonkiness of the legs and the arms slightly.

Distorting the proportions definitely works in some cases, but the important thing to remember is that the effect depends on how exactly you distort them. Characters like Mickey Mouse or the Matoran have larger heads and shorter legs relative to their body than an adult human, but the result is a cute look (probably in part because the proportions become somewhat reminiscent of a human toddler or infant). Exaggerating the width of the shoulders (whether or not you do it to the same extent as the Toa Inika) makes the figure look burly and masculine, so it can be good for characters with a "superhuman" physique — but if you make a figure TOO burly, you can end up with a figure who looks downright monstrous like the Incredible Hulk.

Likewise, narrower shoulders can make a figure look lean and feminine, but make them TOO narrow and they start to look downright frail. Human women also often have wider hips than human men (ever heard the expression "childbearing hips"?), but it's a subtle difference and generally not one that you can really convey in a constraction MOC. Take it too far, like with Toa Mata Pohatu, and they just stop looking like human hips — though in some cases this can help a non-humanoid creation like this combi model really stand out.

Making the head smaller relative to the body is another way to make a figure look superhuman or idealized. In many types of drawing, including superhero comics or fashion drawing, an ideal adult height will be seven or eight times the size of their head, although in real life most adults' height is closer to six or six-and-a-half times the size of their head. Again, exaggerate this too much and it starts to look ridiculous, and generally you should try to keep the rest of the body proportions fairly realistic rather than putting all the "extra" height in the legs.

I think those examples make my point clear — there's no reason you have to keep all proportions realistic, but any changes you make will tend to have some impact on how a viewer will perceive the subject. There's some wiggle room (after all, people rarely complain about Toa Mata Gali looking especially masculine, although her shoulders are actually wider than Lewa's or Kopaka's), but whenever making any design decision you should try to remain aware of what sort of message it will send.

And actually, the Piraka torso is the same width as the Inika torso at the shoulders. However, it has a wider chest, less of a neck, and less of a waist, which makes it look more masculine. I think Toa Mahri Hahli and Mistika Toa Gali might have both used it on account of the curvature it lends to the back, though I can't be entirely sure what the designers were thinking.

[Dorek]

I never thought the humanoid-subject-empathizing argument held up that well. Obviously it works with some wiggle room, but the Inika proportions are definitely within that degree of flexibility (if anything, it's their faces that would turn people away!). People (yes, even children) can distinguish between the fantasy and reality of a subject, especially when it's clear that it is supposed to be a non-humanoid, as BIONICLE so often made the point.

[Aanchir]

I never thought the humanoid-subject-empathizing argument held up that well. Obviously it works with some wiggle room, but the Inika proportions are definitely within that degree of flexibility (if anything, it's their faces that would turn people away!). People (yes, even children) can distinguish between the fantasy and reality of a subject, especially when it's clear that it is supposed to be a non-humanoid, as BIONICLE so often made the point.

Generally I do dislike the faces, just on the grounds that it's hard for them to show expression. I've consistently preferred the head pieces used in Hero Factory to the ones used in BIONICLE (well, the Brain Attack one doesn't have a face, but it doesn't need one so much because all the masks that year have expressive faces of their own). The masks in BIONICLE I don't have quite so much of a problem with, because they're masks, though I prefer the expressive versions in the movies to the static ones in the sets, and try to work some level of expressiveness into all my BIONICLE drawings. Like the Brain Attack masks or the masks in the BIONICLE movies, all the Toa Inika masks had expressive faces with recognizable facial features, and I was honestly a little bit disappointed when this design trend did not continue in future years.

And yes, when a character is supposed to be non-humanoid, it's fine for them not to have humanoid proportions. But as I said, the ways a figure varies from humanoid proportions and physique convey a message, and more so the more they stand out.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I think the faces were the worst part of the 06 sets for me. I was so glad they went back to proper masks in 07 and for Axonn and Brutaka (And Umbra, but who cares about him?), and I hated a lot of the Glatorian heads because of the exposed faces that so many of them had.

I looked at most of the mocs that I've built, and they do have hands near the knees... but for some reason, it looks just fine to me. IDK why, but when I used these three parts or equivalent to give them shorter arms, they looked too short. Maybe it's because I watched the movies every weekend as a kid, because if you look at the movie models for the Toa Nuva and the Toa Metru, then you can quite plainly see that their hands are level with their knees. Considering this, and my favourite wave of sets (Mahri), as well as a lot of the MOCs kicking around before the "Everything must be perfectly humanoid, 100 custom and covered in System, because stock parts and especially Inika torso beams are the work of Mega Bloks skub" mentality came in in the original run's waning days, I suppose I'm used to the characters being long-armed. I don't think it's such a goof, really.

I suppose it doesn't help that the HF sets took until Breakout to get consistently shorter arms than legs.

[arc]

(And Umbra, but who cares about him?)

I do.

Anyway, looking at them now I can see a difference, but it isn't something that ever bothered me. My favorite bionicle sets were the ones the came out in 2006, but I did grow up having them, so I may have a bias opinion.

[dviddy]

I think the faces were the worst part of the 06 sets for me. I was so glad they went back to proper masks in 07 and for Axonn and Brutaka (And Umbra, but who cares about him?), and I hated a lot of the Glatorian heads because of the exposed faces that so many of them had.

I looked at most of the mocs that I've built, and they do have hands near the knees... but for some reason, it looks just fine to me. IDK why, but when I used these three parts or equivalent to give them shorter arms, they looked too short. Maybe it's because I watched the movies every weekend as a kid, because if you look at the movie models for the Toa Nuva and the Toa Metru, then you can quite plainly see that their hands are level with their knees. Considering this, and my favourite wave of sets (Mahri), as well as a lot of the MOCs kicking around before the "Everything must be perfectly humanoid, 100 custom and covered in System, because stock parts and especially Inika torso beams are the work of Mega Bloks skub" mentality came in in the original run's waning days, I suppose I'm used to the characters being long-armed. I don't think it's such a goof, really.

I suppose it doesn't help that the HF sets took until Breakout to get consistently shorter arms than legs.

That mentality for the central BIONICLE MOC community came through well before the line's waning years. By the time the Mahri came through, the "big names" or the "big movers and shakers" had well moved past the "all custom all the time" mentality, though I have noticed that splinter communities, the DAs, the MOCpages, etc, seem to have missed out on all the innovations and ideas developments from that era. And as someone who has been thoroughly involved and shaped the constraction MOCing community pretty strongly since the beginning, we have been trying to figure out perfect humanoid proportions since the beginning.

[Lord-Vorahk]

That mentality for the central BIONICLE MOC community came through well before the line's waning years. By the time the Mahri came through, the "big names" or the "big movers and shakers" had well moved past the "all custom all the time" mentality, though I have noticed that splinter communities, the DAs, the MOCpages, etc, seem to have missed out on all the innovations and ideas developments from that era. And as someone who has been thoroughly involved and shaped the constraction MOCing community pretty strongly since the beginning, we have been trying to figure out perfect humanoid proportions since the beginning.

Before that, there was still some tolerance for stock, though. Now people seem to act like employing an Inika torso beam is some kind of cardinal sin, when really, it's a rather useful part as an upper torso piece, provided that it isn't the entire torso.

My real beef with the "everything must be custom" mentality is that, while the better builders can make an aesthetically pleasing and complex MOC at the same time, the people who aren't so good end up with an ugly mess of technic beams with loose limbs, since these tend to get loose and worn much faster than the joints on a torso beam, at least, in my experience, and this is as someone who was using these as actual toys for playing with when he got them, as opposed to just building. The shoulder joints that came from my Jaller Inika should've had much more wear than the the ball from Toa Mata Nui's ankle, yet the latter is still sturdier.

Considering that Toa have, barring the Metru, consistently been shown to be overly-broad shouldered with arms that aren't much shorter than their legs, not only since the first wave of sets, but also in the animated models where they could tweak the bodies to look however they like, I'm of the mentality that the Inika builds, barring the thin chest, aren't disproportionate to how a Toa should look.

That's not to say that perfect humanoid proportions have no place in my mind, though. There are plenty of builds where a more humanoid build enhances the look of a MOC, and I'd prefer to think of both full stock and full custom as perfectly legitimate, as long as the character comes out looking like they fit in the universe they're meant to be a part of. Indeed, I myself have employed a fair few custom builds, and I generally go for a mix of custom and stock. But the topic was simply my reaction to the mentality that the later-generation Bionicle sets were badly proportioned because they didn't have human proportions, when that's something that Toa have never had.

[dviddy]

Before that, there was still some tolerance for stock, though. Now people seem to act like employing an Inika torso beam is some kind of cardinal sin, when really, it's a rather useful part as an upper torso piece, provided that it isn't the entire torso.

I don't know where you've spent most of your time (though it sounds like either DA or MOCpages), but the main branch of the constraction mocing community has done the opposite. If you employ overly-inolved technic built limbs with system bits thrown on to cover every connection or gap or whatever, those of us who are "more advanced" are going to look poorly on you. At one point in the community's advancement, I think building custom limbs and understanding how to make those work, how to make them functional and proportional, was an important part of the process, and probably intensely necessary. Now? No. I'm looking for character and style, with aesthetic value and good colouring. Too many of the intense technic-heavy humanoids all look the same, and because of the ticky-tack building style, look jumbled and messy as a result.

The point here, though, is that I've been deep in the community for a long time (since the beginning), and a lot of the things you're saying don't ring true to my recollection. We've wanted more human-proportioned sets and MOCs since nearly the beginning, and the long-arms on the Inika style builds have been complained about since the Mahri debuted. I don't agree that the original toa or the metru had the same proportions- as my -chiir brethren said, proportions aren't solely based on limb-lenght, but limb-to-torso length. The mata may have had arms just as long as their legs, but I'm looking at my collection of original Toa on top of our tv right now0 most have weirdly accurate arm length in proportion to the torso. Elbows at the navel, wrists at bottom of torso, etc. Wayyyyy more visually proportionate than later sets. Same story with the Metru.

[plew2000]

They look pretty cool to me. The torsos are a little off but that is what makes them uniqe!