LEGO Mindstorms and Robotics General Discussion

[Jim]

Shop owner (at least the guy replying) is called Marcel as well. It's not you right?

EV3 will be in stock in about 1 or 2 weeks. Seems a pretty generic answer since the release date is around the 1st of September.

Was hoping he would get the Education set earlier.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ted

[Jim]

Extra motors...check.

Almost good to go

[Burf2000]

I will try and build the GyroBoy for you and let you know what I find. I have seen it work in person before.

[Jim]

Guess I can try to build Gyroboy as well. The day has come whoohoo

[Marcel1980]

  On 8/19/2013 at 3:34 PM, Ted said:

Guess I can try to build Gyroboy as well. The day has come whoohoo

I hate you! ;)

[Jim]

  On 8/19/2013 at 4:57 PM, Marcel1980 said:

I hate you! ;)

Hehe. Be patient my friend

I have to be patient as well. I don't have much time tonight, so I have to wait till tomorrow to do some actual building and testing

Edited August 19, 2013 by Ted

[Jim]

  On 8/16/2013 at 12:29 PM, shifted said:

Thank you for the overnight replies. I have been checking the sensor. It reads about 8-10 degrees forward lean while Gyro Boy is on the support stand, but I thought this would be normal as it's a pretty tight build. I've also tried dozens of times with the "hand holding" method and he doesn't seem to like that either. Oh well, I'll keep trying for a while but I'll probably just revisit Gyro Boy in a few weeks.

Shifted, I will try to build Gyro Boy tonight and see how it works. Reading part of the manual yesterday made me realize that Gyro Boy should probably read a 0 (zero) value at rest and it should be completely motionless when connected. Check out this section from the manual, hope it helps.

Gyro Sensor

The Gyro Sensor is a digital sensor that detects rotational motion

on a single axis. If you rotate the Gyro Sensor in the direction of the

arrows on the case of the sensor, the sensor can detect the rate of

rotation in degrees per second. (The sensor can measure a

maximum rate of spin of 440 degrees per second.) You can then

use the rotation rate to detect, for example, when a part of your

robot is turning, or when your robot is falling over.

In addition, the Gyro Sensor keeps track of the total rotation angle

in degrees. You can use this rotation angle to detect, for example,

how far your robot has turned. This feature means you are able to

program turns (on the axis the Gyro Sensor is measuring) with an

accuracy of +/- 3 degrees for a 90-degree turn.

Note: The sensor must be completely motionless while being

plugged into the EV3 Brick. If the Gyro Sensor is attached to a robot,

the robot should be held motionless in its starting position as the

Gyro Sensor is plugged into the EV3 Brick.

Connecting the Gyro Sensor

On the EV3 Brick, go to the Brick App screen (third tab) and use the

Centre button to select Port View.

Using a flat black Connector Cable, connect the Gyro Sensor to the

EV3 Brick on Port 2. Make sure to hold the sensor very still while

you do this. On the EV3 Brick display, the Port View app should show

a “0” reading in the second small bottom window from the left, which

is the window representing input values from Port 2.

Still without moving the sensor, observe the display for a few seconds.

It should continue to display “0” for Port 2 with the Gyro Sensor. If

the Gyro Sensor readings do not constantly display “0” during the

connection process, unplug the sensor and repeat the procedure.

When the screen consistently displays “0” for a few seconds,

experiment with rotating the sensor and observe how the angle

reading changes. Remember, the Gyro Sensor measures the angle

of change on only one axis.

For more information, see Using the Gyro Sensor in the EV3 Software

Help.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ted

[Jim]

I have just built the Gyro Boy and everything is working perfectly. The Gyro sensor value is 0 when it's in rest, so I would really make sure that's also the case when you start your program. Just hook it up to the software and check the sensor value in the port view in the bottom right of the screen.

[Jim]

Not the best videos, just to show you it works.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ted

[Doc_Brown]

That's great Ted, can you control it using Bluetooth or something? I've seen NXT ones being controlled.

[Jim]

  On 8/21/2013 at 2:24 AM, Doc_Brown said:

That's great Ted, can you control it using Bluetooth or something? I've seen NXT ones being controlled.

NXT can be controlled via BT but it is problematic to control directly via iOS. You need to use some sort of proxy on a pc or something. BT on EV3 is compatible with BT on iOS, so it can be controlled directly. Haven't tried it though. It's on my todo list, with looooots of other stuff I need to test

Apart from the software license, the education version is great value for money! Lots of sensors and the rechargeable battery is very expensive if bought separately.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Ted

[opTEAMist]

  On 8/13/2013 at 6:29 PM, Impact1 said:

I called and described the situation to a LEGO support person.

...

I also asked about the battery. I was told that I was not the only one to have this issue. The update in firmware didn't resolve any of this.

...

If anyone else is having the Lipo battery issue, and finds a resolution, please post here. I've already gone through two sets of cells trying to get it to work, and testing.

I'm the another one who faced the same problem with rechargeable battery as you (((

It would be interesting for me to know did that guy from LEGO support tell you anything about what caused the problem: battery itself, or P-brick itself, or possibly the problem is in their compatibility (on which level - hardware or software)?

[Cwetqo]

I just got early release of retail kit with software version 1.0.0. Sadly, there are just blocks for IR, Touch and Colour sensors. A question for those of you who bought additional sensors: do they also include blocks or ohter support software. there is option "import blocks", but I dont know if additional blocks are available yet? I want to purchase at least Gyro and additional touch sensors, maybe also ultrasonic.

Otherwise, first impressions are so-so. Box is very small and you have to cut envelope to get test pad. There is no tray or even cardboard inserts (or boxes like with NXT). Stuff is just thrown in, like in other lego sets. Brick looks nice, but it takes forever to power up and, interesting, also to power down.

[Doc_Brown]

Hmm, sounds like there are some "bugs" and minor issues to be worked out with EV3. Thanks for all the input guys.

[Jim]

Cwetqo, do you mean third party sensors, like HiTechnic? Haven't tried them yet.

There will be an update for sensors like Ultrasonic. The educational version does support everything.

Apart from the software, which is not free, I think the educational version has a lot more value for money. The price is lower, more sensors, rechargeable battery. I will also get a retail version later on, but for now I am glad I bought the educational version.

The brick indeeds takes a while to startup....and power down. The latter seems a bit odd to me. I wonder if this also will be the case with other firmware, like RobotC.

What I really miss and find very annoying, is the lack of a backlit LCD screen. The resolution is better than before, but you still don't see much.

Pros are the new motors! They are easy to mount and the medium motor is very compact.

Hope to get some more testing done this weekend!

[opTEAMist]

LEGO Education officially admitted an issue related to EV3 rechargeable battery!

Message to Customers.

[Cwetqo]

No, I mean sensors from edu version. You can buy them at edu retailers and the prices are not that high. I planned to buy at least gyro sensor, but now I'm considering getting edu version too. Proble is that here, in slovenia, it costs more than retail version 369 vs 349 and I dont really need other stuff except sensors. I can get gyro, ultra and additional touch for around 100 euro. Rechargeable battery might be deciding factor here, but now, with this problems I dont know.

[Jim]

Thanks for this information opTEAMist.

I don't seem to have any trouble with the battery. What I don't understand is this:

As there is no indicator on the charger to show whether or not the battery is fully charged, you will not know if there is a fault until you put it back into your EV3 brick and try to use it.

When I connected the battery to a power outlet there was a green and red light. After some time one of them went off (not sure which one), so I reckoned that the battery was fully charged by then.

  On 8/23/2013 at 6:28 AM, Cwetqo said:

No, I mean sensors from edu version. You can buy them at edu retailers and the prices are not that high. I planned to buy at least gyro sensor, but now I'm considering getting edu version too. Proble is that here, in slovenia, it costs more than retail version 369 vs 349 and I dont really need other stuff except sensors. I can get gyro, ultra and additional touch for around 100 euro. Rechargeable battery might be deciding factor here, but now, with this problems I dont know.

Burf2000 said in one of the previous posts:

So I investigated more and you will need to download a add-on that enables them, they have not released this yet.

Guess you have to wait a bit. I find it rather strange that this is different in the retail version. Now I come to think of it; would this be not to confuse the customers with sensor blocks they don't have in their kit?

I would recommend new users to buy the retail version. Users who are familiar with NXT I would recommend buying the educational version.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Ted

[opTEAMist]

  On 8/23/2013 at 6:34 AM, Ted said:

Thanks for this information opTEAMist.

Thanks to Xander Soldaat ))) - he was the first one who posted this message this morning on Facebook and later in his blog.

[GuiliuG]

@ TED : by buying the educationnal version, you haven't got the EV3 software, right ? So, I don't understand how it works,how do you programm without this software ? What can you install on your brick ? Do you need to purchase something else than the education kit to be able to do what you want ? I'm confused about this. And as I don't know a lot of things about the programming world, it doens't help.

[Jim]

  On 8/23/2013 at 7:36 AM, GuiliuG said:

@ TED : by buying the educationnal version, you haven't got the EV3 software, right ? So, I don't understand how it works,how do you programm without this software ? What can you install on your brick ? Do you need to purchase something else than the education kit to be able to do what you want ? I'm confused about this. And as I don't know a lot of things about the programming world, it doens't help.

Hi GuiliuG,

You can program the brick on the brick itself but this IS NOT RECOMMENDED. It's just to test a bit.

With the Educational version, the software is not included in the box. However, you need to purchase a license and download the software separately. The license will set you back around 100 euro/dollar, so it's not very cheap.

The Educational version of the software has some additional features like data logging. You can start experiments and log sensor and motor data. Furthermore, there are some features for teachers, which you probably won't be needing.

So basically you need to add 100 euro/dollar to the price of the set for the software. The price of the set can be about 50 euro/dollar less than the retail set, depending on the seller. Given the fact that there's a rechargeable battery in the educational set which itself is about 100 euro/dollar, I think it's not a bad deal.

When you are patient you can wait with buying the educational set until firmware is available for other programming environments, like RobotC. However, that will require some programming knowledge.

[Cwetqo]

Are you sure that education set is cheaper?

I checked german prices:

Ev3 retail set - 349.99 euro

Ev3 edu set - 386,74 euro

Ev3 software is 119,99 euro

All prices are with tax.

Regarding software: retail software will be available for free download and it should work with edu system. We will just have to wait for edu blocks to be available and, if possible, instructions for edu builds.

[Burf2000]

Good work on making the gyro boy, I do hope to try and build it tonight.

I believe the retail is a little cheaper than the Educational version, both have pros and cons

[Jim]

  On 8/23/2013 at 8:35 AM, Cwetqo said:

Are you sure that education set is cheaper?

Regarding software: retail software will be available for free download and it should work with edu system. We will just have to wait for edu blocks to be available and, if possible, instructions for edu builds.

It depends on your reseller. I can get educational for 320 euros here in The Netherlands, but I have seen prices over 400 euros as well. Retail goes for 370 euro, but you might find it for 350 when you are lucky.

If you are a "normal" user, you should probably stick to the retail set and wait for the other sensor blocks to become available.

To be clear; there's no difference in the brick with the Retail or Edu version. However, there is a different firmware installed, but you can change that yourself. If you don't want the data logging functionality, you don't need Edu firmware.

So it all depends on your needs.

[Jim]

  On 8/23/2013 at 8:39 AM, Burf2000 said:

Good work on making the gyro boy, I do hope to try and build it tonight.

It's fun to see it in action. Although it's doesn't do very much, but the balancing act is cool.

  On 8/23/2013 at 8:39 AM, Burf2000 said:

I believe the retail is a little cheaper than the Educational version, both have pros and cons

True. It depends on your needs and expertise.