[CUUSOO] The Infinitely Modular Classical Temple Building Set

[natesroom]

Yeah i wasnt even talking about a biblical set. What i said was in reading my bible it has given me a new appreciation and interest in the cultures of that time.

[pogie]

Yeah i wasnt even talking about a biblical set. What i said was in reading my bible it has given me a new appreciation and interest in the cultures of that time.

You can learn even more about ancient cultures by reading non-fiction instead.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Ecclesiastes
: Watch what you're saying, being that offensive is not allowed!

[The Real Indiana Jones]

...non-fiction...

OK, Pogie, now you're just trolling!

And there are a million other forums for that debate elsewhere on the internet!

[Mahtion]

Well pogie has a point! I grew up reading the Bible and gained an appreciation for ancient cultures but when I researched the historicity of the Hittites, Philistines and other polytheistic and highly advanced civilizations I realized that these cultures were being derided and demonized to the point of propaganda. Poor Egypt was portrayed the worst, their unique achievements were undermined by accusations of slavery, genocide, and corruption. Also look at Babylon and the highly offensive derogatory language used to describe it. The cruelty and savagery of the Assyrians is more accurate and documented. The reality though is that the Bible was written anachronistically attempting to insert late Iron Age monotheism into the universal polytheistic Phoenician and Canaanite cultures which preceded Judea and Palestine. It is not a rare phenomenon, many ruling classes have attempted to rewrite history to claim divine appointment or authority in order to legitimize their power grab. The truth about ancient history is that it was both mundane and spectacular, much like modern times but only a difference in technology and cultural zeitgeist.

That comment aside, I have been following this thread and would like to extend kudos to The Real Indiana Jones for your tenacity, passion, and vision. I only have one comment about the depiction of Ahasuerus and the Achaemenid Anusiya (Immortals). I know you like the 300 graphic novel adaptation but I think it is sad to see the only representation of ancient Persia in your lego sets amounts to some Bedouin hooded ninjas and Mughal stylized royalty. Granted your theme is more centered around Greece/Sparta but the Persian empire was so much more than just an adversary to Ancient Greece.

[pogie]

Well pogie has a point! I grew up reading the Bible and gained an appreciation for ancient cultures but when I researched the historicity of the Hittites, Philistines and other polytheistic and highly advanced civilizations I realized that these cultures were being derided and demonized to the point of propaganda. Poor Egypt was portrayed the worst, their unique achievements were undermined by accusations of slavery, genocide, and corruption. Also look at Babylon and the highly offensive derogatory language used to describe it. The cruelty and savagery of the Assyrians is more accurate and documented. The reality though is that the Bible was written anachronistically attempting to insert late Iron Age monotheism into the universal polytheistic Phoenician and Canaanite cultures which preceded Judea and Palestine. It is not a rare phenomenon, many ruling classes have attempted to rewrite history to claim divine appointment or authority in order to legitimize their power grab. The truth about ancient history is that it was both mundane and spectacular, much like modern times but only a difference in technology and cultural zeitgeist.

That comment aside, I have been following this thread and would like to extend kudos to The Real Indiana Jones for your tenacity, passion, and vision. I only have one comment about the depiction of Ahasuerus and the Achaemenid Anusiya (Immortals). I know you like the 300 graphic novel adaptation but I think it is sad to see the only representation of ancient Persia in your lego sets amounts to some Bedouin hooded ninjas and Mughal stylized royalty. Granted your theme is more centered around Greece/Sparta but the Persian empire was so much more than just an adversary to Ancient Greece.

Wow. Didn't expect such an articulate defense of my snarky cheap shot! Your post has persuaded me to finally order Persian Fire from Amazon. It gives a history of the Persians and their battles with the Greek city states. All I know of the Persians, Parthians,

Sassanids et al, is what you glean from the boogeyman portrayals of the West. If you have any reading recommendations, shoot me a PM.

Edited August 25, 2013 by pogie

[Ecclesiastes]

From now on please on topic, as The Real Indiana Jones asked of you. Discussions like this belong somewhere else!

[Brickdoctor]

Also, before this or another conversation gets there, remember what the Member Guidelines, which you all agreed to abide by when registering, say about discussion of religious topics:

[...]

Manners and Serious Topics: Don't be offensive to other members. We like Eurobricks to be a friendly place to discuss LEGO and won't allow posts that are intended to offend or attack. For the same reason, topics about religion or politics are not welcome on Eurobricks.

[...]

[The Real Indiana Jones]

Hi, Thanks to both Moderators...! These are all excellent points, but it can quickly descend into "trolling" and "flaming"...!

Edited August 25, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

That comment aside, I have been following this thread and would like to extend kudos to The Real Indiana Jones for your tenacity, passion, and vision. I only have one comment about the depiction of Ahasuerus and the Achaemenid Anusiya (Immortals). I know you like the 300 graphic novel adaptation but I think it is sad to see the only representation of ancient Persia in your Lego sets amounts to some Bedouin hooded ninjas and Mughal stylized royalty. Granted your theme is more centered around Greece/Sparta but the Persian empire was so much more than just an adversary to Ancient Greece.

1) Thanks...! I thought about that too while doing my research, so if you have alternate images of the Persians and the Immortals, or anything else, definitely go ahead and post or link to them here...!

2) If I made the Persians look evil, it was simply an indirect reference to 300, a famous blockbuster movie that a ton of people want to see in Lego. That might change if it is too negative or mean.

3) I actually added the Persians in at the last moment, since fans requested it. So I did not really have any particular pre-existing vision for what they should look like exactly.

4) The appearance of Xerxes is based on the famous mosaic of Alexander facing the Persian king Darius, which is echoed in the Oliver Stone film "Alexander", which is an excellent movie worth seeing.

5) The Persian Immortals seem to have dressed in a fantastic array of outfits and colors. They were famous for combining the troops and tactics of all of the nation they ruled. Is there one iconic version?

6) Also remember that with Cuusoo, you can't suggest any newly-molded-parts together in the context of a new set, so I have to use all pre-existing parts for hats, helmets, hairstyles, et cetera...!

7) And in case anyone is confused, Xerxes was his name in Greek, Ahasuerus is one of his names in the Bible, and Xšayārša or Xshayaarsha or Xsayarsa is his original name in Persian, which is written in cuneiform in several of the prototype pics above.

Edited August 25, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[Mahtion]

1) Thanks...! I thought about that too while doing my research, so if you have alternate images of the Persians and the Immortals, or anything else, definitely go ahead and post or link to them here...!

2) If I made the Persians look evil, it was simply an indirect reference to 300, a famous blockbuster movie that a ton of people want to see in Lego. That might change if it is too negative or mean.

3) I actually added the Persians in at the last moment, since fans requested it. So I did not really have any particular pre-existing vision for what they should look like exactly.

4) The appearance of Xerxes is based on the famous mosaic of Alexander facing the Persian king Darius, which is echoed in the Oliver Stone film "Alexander", which is an excellent movie worth seeing.

5) The Persian Immortals seem to have dressed in a fantastic array of outfits and colors. They were famous for combining the troops and tactics of all of the nation they ruled. Is there one iconic version?

I am glad you are open to suggestions because I have some ideas to make the Persians more historically accurate. I know you have to balance your themes with accuracy and more contemporary depictions because familiar images sell. I do not think you depicted the Persians negatively, I just think they could look better without relying on the 300 portrayal.

There are many mural and bas relief representations of Persians during the Achaemenid period and it is difficult to distinguish which are Immortals, Medians, or other troop or culture types. However, there is a consensus that they wore bright rich colors like purple and orange, wore soft leather boots, long trousers, scale mail armor, and wore a tiara and/or kind of hood/cap. They are depicted carrying spears, bows, and probably carried xiphon like akinakes straight thrusting swords.

Based on these details I was looking for a cap like the Lego Medieval blacksmith/villager hood:

http://www.brickset.com/parts/?part=4540850

Also I think the gladius-like short sword from LOTR/Hobbit would work. Maybe even Sting sword? It may be too similar to the Hoplite swords in your sets but is more accurate:

http://www.brickset.com/parts/?part=6002763

http://www.brickset.com/parts/?part=6000291

For the boots and trousers I found the woman warrior legs to be a good match, not that new prints are an issue with Cuusoo. Just imagine the "skin" as bright yellow trousers:

http://www.firestartoys.com/Shop/Minifigure-Parts/Minifigure-Printed-Legs/15069-LEGO-Mini-Figure-Legs-~-Warrior-Woman.html

The torso will be trickier, maybe one of the following would work with some purple or bright colored arms:

http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/Gilbert_The_Bad

https://www.google.com/search?q=lego+scale+armor+torso&safe=off&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ncIaUuWVBKnP2AWM6YGAAQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=672#biv=i%7C109%3Bd%7CqaiZFevUIOj6gM%3A

Also I saw Oliver Stone's Alexander and enjoyed it a great deal. Since you added the Persians as a late idea, I am certain you will flesh them out as you continue to revise your projects.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Mahtion

[The Real Indiana Jones]

Hmm, or in general, I think there are three different levels to discuss...

1) Do the various models look right? Are there specific points that need to be fixed?

2) Do the sets work well for story and playability? That will determine which things go together with which things in different sets.

3) How will people react overall? Is any human civilization represented unfairly? Are there any aspects that Lego would deem too controversial or too aggressive?

I'm eager to discuss all that, but in a **civilized** way, OK?! Here are the 3 Greek-themed sets again..... I will do quick collages like this for the other civ sets next.....

"Uno..."

"...Dos..."

"...Tres... Catorce... Turn it up loud, Captain!"

"All of this, all of this can be yours..."

[The Real Indiana Jones]

I am glad you are open to suggestions because I have some ideas to make the Persians more historically accurate. I know you have to balance your themes with accuracy and more contemporary depictions because familiar images sell. I do not think you depicted the Persians negatively, I just think they could look better without relying on the 300 portrayal.

There are many mural and bas relief representations of Persians during the Achaemenid period and it is difficult to distinguish which are Immortals, Medians, or other troop or culture types. However, there is a consensus that they wore bright rich colors like purple and orange, wore soft leather boots, long trousers, scale mail armor, and wore a tiara and/or kind of hood/cap. They are depicted carrying spears, bows, and probably carried xiphon like akinakes straight thrusting swords.

Based on these details I was looking for a cap like the Lego Medieval blacksmith/villager hood:

http://www.brickset....s/?part=4540850

Also I think the gladius-like short sword from LOTR/Hobbit would work. Maybe even Sting sword? It may be too similar to the Hoplite swords in your sets but is more accurate:

http://www.brickset....s/?part=6002763

http://www.brickset....s/?part=6000291

For the boots and trousers I found the woman warrior legs to be a good match, not that new prints are an issue with Cuusoo. Just imagine the "skin" as bright yellow trousers:

http://www.firestart...rior-Woman.html

The torso will be trickier, maybe one of the following would work with some purple or bright colored arms:

http://lego.wikia.co...Gilbert_The_Bad

https://www.google.c...qaiZFevUIOj6gM:

Also I saw Oliver Stone's Alexander and enjoyed it a great deal. Since you added the Persians as a late idea, I am certain you will flesh them out as you continue to revise your projects.

Ah yes, so if you've seen Darius in Oliver Stone's excellent movie "Alexander", as well as the famous mosaic, then I think the way I've shown Xerxes is just about right, including the keffiyeh-style head-wear, which probably covered his more elaborate golden crown during battles. Also notice the rectangular shields in the background, which is the kind I gave them.

And of course, I am avoiding the artistically-over-the-top-caricatured version of Xerxes from the movie 300, partly because it's a uniquely copyrighted character, and partly because it is R-rated! As a side note, that outrageously stylized portrayal is based on the Ancient Greeks derision of their enemies, whom they chided as "too soft from too much luxury".

Hmm, when I see the farmer's cowl, I immediately associate it with the peasant farmers we have all known and loved since the '80s, not elite fighters! The headgear I used is actually the Star Wars Royal Guard mask, in part because the Immortals were actually elite royal guards. They should also definitely be wearing trousers, and not pteruges (or pteryges).

The main reason I used the katana sword was because it is the only sword that fits into that double-back-scabbard. Also, including the elephant trainer from India, and the ninja-styled Immortals definitely makes them look a lot more like mercenaries in a huge cosmopolitan empire, and more "Eastern" and more "Asian" in the totally broadest geographic meaning.

To make them look less evil, they could just change their uniforms from the evil-looking black to a brighter color with nice prints, and voi-la! Perhaps their main team color could be sand-red and something, since the Romans and Spartans are dark-red and gold. In Civilization V, Persia's team color is bright red, or it could be any color combo, just like you said.

Plus, I am totally sure that Lego has already done top-quality concept art sketches for ancient warriors from just about every major civilization on Planet Earth, including the Persian Immortals, the Qin Dynasty Terra Cotta Warriors, an Aztec Jaguar-Warrior to go with the CMF Aztec Eagle-Warrior, Maya, Inca, etc, etc. They can use the artwork they have done.

Also, making them look like the guys from 300 is just a faster way to get to 10,000! Then Lego can always alter them to match their own concept art, or their own comfort-zone. Seriously, I'd say that's the number one problem with a lot of Cuusoo projects, is that they are just re-inventing minifigs and character designs that the Lego artists have **already** done concept art for!!

And if Lego does pre-empt us all a little bit, and make their own Greco-Roman theme, I will doubly ecstatic... Partly because I will want those sets one way or another, with no "Sour Grapes" attitude... And partly because if they make Greeks and Romans, then it will just create more demand for my Babylonian Hanging Gardens set and Persian set to match the Greeks, and Carthaginians and my Celtic frontier fortress and Stonehenge set to match the Romans!!

Edited August 26, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

In celebration of 6,000 views here in the History Forum... Caesar's upgraded Rostra.

These printed banners are the same as on the elephants, and they can hang from the rafters of any temple in LegoLand!

All the shields will be printed on the newer Captain America style mold, just like they did for LOTR, and just like a real convex ancient hoplon shield.

This goes in my newly expanded Roman Forum set, so now you can capture the Carthaginian War-Elephant and officially re-flag him for the *REAL* Glory of Rome!

(Ah, did you see what I did just there? It was like a *pun* kinda, did you see that?)

If you click on the pic, it opens the voting pages.

Edited August 27, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[SerenityInFire]

Reading through the last few posts, I will recommend that you keep your themes limited to warfare, monuments and the Greek myths to make sure everything is kid appropriate. I'd stay away from temples/churches unless it's a place that's a well known monument - like the pyramids or stonehenge - or of otherwise historical significance. I say this since the Egyptians were more reknowned throughout the anchient world for their bizarre and often public sex practices than for their achievements in math and science, (not to mention what they did with their POW's) as well as the importance of prostitution in Babylonian religion. The Epic of Gilgamesh might be ok, so long as you omit the priestess (priestitute?) Shamhat.

I have to say that I absolutely love your battering ram and war elephant designs for your "300" set. Any chance we'll eventually see some cataphracts and horse archers?

"...Tres... Catorce... Turn it up loud, Captain!"

On a side note, how come when you count, you go straight from three all the way to fourteen?

[The Real Indiana Jones]

Reading through the last few posts, I will recommend that you keep your themes limited to warfare, monuments and the Greek myths to make sure everything is kid appropriate. I'd stay away from temples/churches unless it's a place that's a well known monument - like the pyramids or stonehenge - or of otherwise historical significance. I say this since the Egyptians were more reknowned throughout the anchient world for their bizarre and often public sex practices than for their achievements in math and science, (not to mention what they did with their POW's) as well as the importance of prostitution in Babylonian religion. The Epic of Gilgamesh might be ok, so long as you omit the priestess (priestitute?) Shamhat.

I have to say that I absolutely love your battering ram and war elephant designs for your "300" set. Any chance we'll eventually see some cataphracts and horse archers?

On a side note, how come when you count, you go straight from three all the way to fourteen?

No worries! In fact I removed that Indiana Jones MOC from Cuusoo a while back, partly because I knew it would be too much of an overtly religious portrayal!

Looking at all of the sets they've done over the years, it's clear that ancient mythology and temples are always A-OK, so I'm sure everything is totally cool.

And believe me, I love reading about the ***ual practices of global civs, but I would never suggest a Babylonian Hieros Gamos or the Rites of Dionysus!

Oh, and "Tres... Catorce... Turn it up loud, Captain" comes from the

. I was referencing the part where he goes "All of this can be yours".

As a joke, Bono goes straight to 14... a classic reference to the part in Spinal Tap where he goes "all the way to 11"! Being a Kiss fan, I'm sure you've seen.

Edited August 26, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[Mahtion]

Hmm, when I see the farmer's cowl, I immediately associate it with the peasant farmers we have all known and loved since the '80s, not elite fighters! The headgear I used is actually the Star Wars Royal Guard mask, in part because the Immortals were actually elite royal guards. They should also definitely be wearing trousers, and not pteruges (or pteryges).

The main reason I used the katana sword was because it is the only sword that fits into that double-back-scabbard. Also, including the elephant trainer from India, and the ninja-styled Immortals definitely makes them look a lot more like mercenaries in a huge cosmopolitan empire, and more "Eastern" and more "Asian" in the totally broadest geographic meaning.

To make them look less evil, they could just change their uniforms from the evil-looking black to a brighter color with nice prints, and voi-la! Perhaps their main team color could be sand-red and something, since the Romans and Spartans are dark-red and gold. In Civilization V, Persia's team color is bright red, or it could be any color combo, just like you said.

Also, making them look like the guys from 300 is just a faster way to get to 10,000! Then Lego can always alter them to match their own concept art, or their own comfort-zone. Seriously, I'd say that's the number one problem with a lot of Cuusoo projects, is that they are just re-inventing minifigs and character designs that the Lego artists have **already** done concept art for!!

And if Lego does pre-empt us all a little bit, and make their own Greco-Roman theme, I will doubly ecstatic... Partly because I will want those sets one way or another, with no "Sour Grapes" attitude... And partly because if they make Greeks and Romans, then it will just create more demand for my Babylonian Hanging Gardens set and Persian set to match the Greeks, and Carthaginians and my Celtic frontier fortress and Stonehenge set to match the Romans!!

So then your Spartan/Persian sets were inspired somewhere between the historical mural and 300 movie. I like the idea of changing the black from the Immortals because it completely contradicts the bright colors the Achaemenid empire were known. Wearing exotic color dyes which were scarce and expensive was a proud display of the array of many nations comprising the empire. Recall how important royal purple was to Phoenicians/Tyrians.

I still don't understand why the Immortals use smoke bombs and must carry dual katanas on their back. With your explanations it seems you want to capitalize on the cultural references of 300. I'm not sure if Miller and Snyder would want copyright royalties if these particular sets were made but Back to the Future was fine so it may be a non issue. I did notice the shields and they look good but maybe again the black is too dull.

Certain creative liberties have to be made in many mediums, I understand that. Based on your creative vision I'm certain you will create sets which will resonate with consumer society. These are your sets so obviously you are to interpret and change them as you will.

I do love your Babylonian ziggurats and the Athenian architecture along with some of the Odyssey and Greek mythological sets. I also like that you incorporated colors into Rome, Greece, and Egypt which better reflects the buildings before their ruined or abandoned states.

[Mahtion]

Reading through the last few posts, I will recommend that you keep your themes limited to warfare, monuments and the Greek myths to make sure everything is kid appropriate. I'd stay away from temples/churches unless it's a place that's a well known monument - like the pyramids or stonehenge - or of otherwise historical significance. I say this since the Egyptians were more reknowned throughout the anchient world for their bizarre and often public sex practices than for their achievements in math and science, (not to mention what they did with their POW's) as well as the importance of prostitution in Babylonian religion. The Epic of Gilgamesh might be ok, so long as you omit the priestess (priestitute?) Shamhat.

I have to say that I absolutely love your battering ram and war elephant designs for your "300" set. Any chance we'll eventually see some cataphracts and horse

I agree with a lot of what SerenityinFire has posted. Obviously it is important to keep certain mature themes out of Lego and also to be cautious when treading into religious associations, implications, or general themes. It is difficult to separate well known historically significant sites from churches/temples because many of them are World Heritage sites. Hagia Sophia, St. Peter's basilica, Church of the Holy Sepulcher, etc are both religious and have deep historical significance.

I do not know how the Egyptians are more renowned for cultural practices than their alchemy, sympathetic magic, city planning, massive construction projects and vast record keeping. The Greeks were in awe of the extent of Egyptian knowledge of history, medicine, and engineering. The great pyramid of Giza is one of the only remaining wonders of the ancient world and has over the millennia come to epitomize Egyptian civilization.

We should keep in mind that certain cultural practices such as temple prostitution were not considered immoral or degenerate in ancient times. The more relatable (Western perspective) Greeks and Romans also had no issues perpetuating the social and spiritual mores of their time. Greek mythology is not without its own questionable social and sexual escapades. Therefore widespread and near universal practices were not civilization defining. The Babylonians I would argue were more renowned for their astronomy, engineering, legal system, and agriculture than the perceived sacred rites of some of their temples.

I would love to see Cataphracts and armored horsemen like Byzantine or Sassanid but they would be outside of the scope of this project as they do not belong to the ancient or classical periods.

[The Real Indiana Jones]

I would love to see Cataphracts and armored horsemen like Byzantine or Sassanid but they would be outside of the scope of this project as they do not belong to the ancient or classical periods.

Oh, chronologically, cataphracts could be totally fine, but the thing is that they just look too Medieval to most people's eyes, especially since I would need to use pre-existing Castle-Era parts to make them.

So instead I may do Alexander's Companion Cavalry, just to fulfill the strategic role of heavy-cavalry and shock-cavalry on the ancient field.

I'm not sure if Miller and Snyder would want copyright royalties if these particular sets were made...

Ah, well that is not the main thing I am worried about. One of the things they do in the Business Case Phase is to determine if a Public Domain concept is too close to any other existing copyrights in a way that might create any issues. If so, then they just tweak it, in this case a simple color swap!

Actually, my main concern has nothing to do with legalities, it is more a matter of not wanting to portray any human civilization as an evil villain!

This is what I said on the project page earlier today...

"I know I can make obvious references to the general style of the movie, (and I think that they might *want* me to do exactly that, in the exact same way that the Dino themes were an obvious reference to Jurassic Park, as Adventurers was an early reference to Indiana Jones, as Fantasy Era Castle was an homage reference to LOTR, as Agents was a direct reference to James Bond, etc, etc...) so long as I make it clear that this is based on real events from 2500 years ago, and not anything currently under copyright... If they need to, they can easily make the Persians wear brighter colors, so that they do not seem to be portrayed so overtly as the villains. I think everyone sees that that's not my intention! After all, the Titans are the villains in this story, so we do not need to portray any human civ as the villain in any way!! Peace on Earth!! =) =) =)"

Edited August 26, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[SerenityInFire]

I don't think it would be too difficult to do Parthian Cataphracts. You could just use the hoods of the Star Wars Royal Guards with a chainmail deco over the face mask.

[The Real Indiana Jones]

I still don't understand why the Immortals use smoke bombs and must carry dual katanas on their back.

Ah, for accuracy, the "fire-bombs" are 100% historically correct, invented in 900 BC in Assyria, and that's why I liked them! Plus it is a cool high-tech thing for the era.

I did not see any one perfect shield style for them, so I just decided to have them double-wield with two swords. The katana works fine, since they used a variety of swords.

So basically, it just comes down to color! I do not want to portray any human civilization as pure villains, but it definitely follows "The Rule of Cool". Read this link a moment!

See also, "Instant Awesome, Just Add Ninja", "Instant Awesome, Just Add Mecha", "Instant Awesome, Just Add Dragons", et al. I'm sure the Lego designers refer to this quite often!

Edited August 27, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

OK, since the Romans have their own unique and highly experimental new unit in the field, the Ballista-Elephant, the Greeks are eager to match their ingenuity.

They have upgraded the Helepolis Siege Tower with a Greek Fire Siphon Turret. Early versions of Greek Fire date to centuries before Byzantium... Fire it up!

I know this also appeared in Assassin's Creed, Pirates of the Caribbean, Percy Jackson, and in the books of George R. R. Martin, author of Game of Thrones.

If anyone has read more of the books or played more of those games, can you think of more "wonder weapons" or "inventions that *could* have been real"?

Have Fun! I will be busy the next few days, but I will definitely check back periodically.....

"therealindy"

Edited August 27, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

Actually, my main concern has nothing to do with legalities, it is more a matter of not wanting to portray any human civilization as an evil villain!

This is what I said on the project page earlier today...

"I know I can make obvious references to the general style of the movie, (and I think that they might *want* me to do exactly that, in the exact same way that the Dino themes were an obvious reference to Jurassic Park, as Adventurers was an early reference to Indiana Jones, as Fantasy Era Castle was an homage reference to LOTR, as Agents was a direct reference to James Bond, etc, etc...) so long as I make it clear that this is based on real events from 2500 years ago, and not anything currently under copyright... If they need to, they can easily make the Persians wear brighter colors, so that they do not seem to be portrayed so overtly as the villains. I think everyone sees that that's not my intention! After all, the Titans are the villains in this story, so we do not need to portray any human civ as the villain in any way!! Peace on Earth!! =) =) =)"

Ah, yes, I am liking this a lot better, for a lot of reasons... The colors here are pearl-gold and metallic-gold, and the redder-nougat, with dark-tan hats, which are the Royal Guard headgear from Star Wars, since the Immortals were the elite royal guard. So hopefully that helps take care of demonization issues and copyright issues all at the same time... In fact, the painting shown here comes from the history pages of a non-profit educational outreach group, The Iran Chamber Society, which contributes a lot of info to Wikipedia pages that kids see for school... So I hope we are 100% in the good zone now on this... In fact, I've always suspected that one of the reasons Lego hasn't done an Ancient World theme yet is that they do not want to portray any civ badly, and rightly so...

...Also, as a side note, we won't use the Uhura-Mazda motif, since Zoroastrianism is still a currently active world religion, so Lego wouldn't use their symbols...

...So now we can start fresh, and discuss various armaments and headgear, et cetera... They mastered almost every type of weapon imaginable, including an ancient version of grenades, which I think were styled to look like pomegranates.

Let me know if you like this better!

Again, I'll be very busy for the next few days, but I will definitely check back periodically.....

"therealindy"

Edited August 30, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

OK, since we are just about done here, I will post a few Behind The Scenes things. First we have the final Team Color Chart, and the Materials Color Chart.

The only surprise here is that I will suggest they resurrect or re-invent a "legacy color": Pearl-Bronze, a.k.a. rare "Metallic Sand Yellow" from the Bionicle sets.

It makes perfect sense to print all of the shields on the same pearl-bronze-colored plastic, then print the two colors for the design on the face of it, like LOTR.

Next, to the left, to the left... Break your neck to the left to see the detailed brick counts and approximate total MSRP for all the sets.

My calculations suggest about $1.50 per minifig plus 9 cents per normal brick for unlicensed flagship sets in the $120-$140 range.

The Spartans are just $50, most others are exactly $120 each, and The Odyssey and Roman Forum could be $130 or $140 each.

And finally, here is one last Behind the Scenes feature for you. I believe that's the single best way construct a Stonehenge using Lego bricks at minifig scale.

We will be on page 6 in a bit, so if you refer to these, you should probably quote them so they appear on the next pages.....

And feel free to comment on any aspect! This thread is nearly done, so now is the time for comments!

Thanks and have fun!

therealindy

Edited August 30, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

I don't think it would be too difficult to do Parthian Cataphracts. You could just use the hoods of the Star Wars Royal Guards with a chainmail deco over the face mask.

Yes, Thanks to SerenityInFIre for finding the right headgear. I looked through everything on LDD again, and that really is the best one.

Below is a Byzantine-Roman Cataphract to go with the Roman Ballista-Mounted Elephant. If he carries the iconic Roman shield, it looks great.

If the royal guard headgear matches the Persians, that acknowledges that the Byzantine-Romans first encountered the use of cataphracts from Persia.

Here comes the Cavalry!

Edited August 28, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones

[The Real Indiana Jones]

OK, since the theme of Page 5 has been all about resolving unfair pop-cultural depictions of civilizations, here is one last thing on that note...

There are two versions here... Can you "Spot The Difference"? No, it's not in the inscription... And no, it's not just the version number!

Either way, I am 100% happy with both of these, and I think it will be great for Lego to do great representations of more people from Africa.

Note they did do the hero named Seso from Prince of Persia, and he was a great looking African minifig, so they can use him as a reference point in design.

It is also cool to see a realistic Iron-Age African Civilization, which was very widespread across most of Africa since Antiquity. They will be forging an international alliance, and joining forces with Egypt as part of my Egyptian set.

Let me know what you think, and if you reply, then perhaps quote the images, so people can see them over on Page 6......

See you on the there!! 6,400 page views and counting!!

"therealindy"

Edited August 29, 2013 by The Real Indiana Jones