LEGO LotR - general discussion

[Risgrynsgrot]

I wonder how many pages consists of predictions by now..

[Blakstone]

I think the Council of Elrond was perfect as well. Instead of sacrificing it, I would have just hoped for an additional army builder set in wave 2. I bought many repeats of wave 1 but only one repeat of wave 2 (Wizard Battle),

We really don't know about what the sells for LotR was, but I think it was the LEGO Movie needing the development time and shelf space that caused the premature demise of this line. If so, LEGO made the right decision. I just wish it went the other way.

[Lynx]

I'm also a fan of the Council of Elrond. When it was released, I immediately had it in my personal top 3 Middle-earth sets. It's one of those sets I will have on display when most sets will be a fading memory.

I wonder how many pages consists of predictions by now..

Cool picture! However, I haven't read anybody's predictions in a while. If you refer to my post, just read it in its entirety and you'll quickly realise that these weren't serious set predictions...

[Blakstone]

When I read your post, I could just see the cycle of absolute glee followed by intense hate and than declarations that LEGO gave no thought to it and that they hate making money that such a wave would cause. But it would be worth it for just one new print on an existing character.

[Lynx]

No need to interpret my post as I hid no messages in it --> "setting low expectations will limit disappointment" is what I wrote and meant. I'm rather sure I've never accused LEGO of not putting any thought into sets and don't think I could ever truly hate anything with intensity.

[Blakstone]

I didn't mean that was your intent. But that was my reaction. And there are several on this thread that make those accusations every few pages.

[Lynx]

No worries. Glad we cleared that up.

[Shroffy123]

Agreed. I'm surprised this page isn't locked yet.

[Deathleech]

Agreed. I'm surprised this page isn't locked yet.

Because there is still a chance we might get future LotR sets? Sure it might be extremely low (read abysmal), but the chance is still there.

After seeing the wave three Hobbit sets, it really hit me how much Lego tries to cater to kids. Look at the LotR theme... only ONE good guy faction is represented and that is Rohan with a SINGLE soldier. Every other good character released in the line is named. No Gondor Soldiers, no Lothlorien Elves... heck we didn't even get Easterlings or Haradrim. The Hobbit is slightly better with Mirkwood Elves and Lake-town Guards, but both served as antagonist at one point or another to Thorin and company. As much as we would love for Lego to throw in all these army builders, it's pretty apparent that's not the direction they want to take with their Middle-Earth sets. If they did we would have seen Iron Hill Dwarves and armored Mirkwood Elves. Heck, the only reason I think we get so many orcs is due to a lack of named bad guy characters, and also so all the good guys (which there are a lot of.. 9 Fellowship members and 13 dwarves alone) have someone to fight. When you already have a dozen good guys you don't really desire no name soldiers to bolster your good ranks. I remember when I was younger Rebel and Endor Soldiers were always the bottom of my list to buy, and when I did I only got 1 or maybe 2 max AFTER I had gotten Leia, Luke, Han, Chewie, C-3PO, R2D2, etc.

I remember a designer video where Lego even mentioned they weren't originally going to include all 13 dwarves in their first Hobbit wave. That seems ludicrous, but if you think about it most little kids probably don't even remember or know all the dwarves. They focus on the main characters.. Gandalf, Bilbo, Thorin, and maybe 2-3 of the more prominent dwarves. If a set has 5 characters in it like Black Gates, it probably makes sense for Lego to include the figures they did. They get Gondor represented with Aragorn, Gandalf the White, the Mouth of Sauron as a bad named character, and 2 nameless orc grunts for the good guys to fight. As much as we all would LOVE that set to have included a Gondor Soldier, and as much as it makes sense to us, Lego probably sees little value in it. So kids can get one soldier that looks similar to other knights in their castle line? How is that going to sell a set over Aragorn or Gandalf the White? Or even over some orcs and MoS for them to fight? In all honesty it's probably not.

Don't get me wrong, I am as big of an army builder fan as anyone, but AFOL sales make up what, 5-10% of Lego's total sales? And how many of those 5-10% are repeat buys from a single person? I doubt very many. To include a Gondor Soldier to appease army builder fans but have less named characters or baddies for the good guys to fight in the process would probably hurt sales among kids pretty heavily.

[Jason7189]

I didn't get any doubles of wave 2, and I didn't even get all of wave 2 because we aren't getting enough ARMY BUILDERS!

[Alcarin]

This grasping at straws and hoping against hope is becoming really frustrating and the inevitable disappointment will only hurt more. I'll try to approach this from a worst-case scenario mindset - the lower my expectations, the smaller my disappointment: there will be no more Lord of the Rings sets. And even if there will be a third and final wave, this is what I expect:

The Destruction of the Ring (20$)

Set: A small rocky outcropping with glowing orange pieces

Action feature: catapult function to hurl a character

Minifigs: Frodo, Sam (both with new print) and Gollum

Galadriel's Treehouse (40$)

Set: the Lothlorien set seen in the video game plus Galadriel's mirror

Action feature: flick fire missile in the tree house

Minifigs: Galadriel, Frodo, Gimli and Legolas

Treebeard encounter (25$)

Set: brick-build ent and some random bushes

Action feature: the ent is highly mobile

Minifigs: Merry, Pippin, one orc

Battle for Minas Tirith (70$)

Set: a white wall structure with green gate and battering ram

Action feature: battering ram uses new firing mechanism (similar to Lake-town set) to 'destroy' the gate, flick fire missiles and small catapults on the wall

Minifigs: Gandalf the White, Pippin in Gondor armour, Eomer, three orcs (plus one horse)

Awful set list, trully abysmal.....

Treebeard over Balrog :O is the worst part.... you can make Treebeard from the Ent by adding/changing 40 parts...... Ents are finished and you get the fig you can modify easily.....

Overall a bad set choices, and even worse Minas Tirith Price point :P

[Lynx]

Awful set list, trully abysmal.....

Exactly! This is the worst possibly list I could think of (other than no sets at all). If I manage to set this list as my expectation, I can only be positively surprised.

[Alcarin]

Exactly! This is the worst possibly list I could think of (other than no sets at all). If I manage to set this list as my expectation, I can only be positively surprised.

haha, so anything happens and wave gets produced youll be happier.... fair play :P

[Preuss]

Look at the LotR theme... only ONE good guy faction is represented and that is Rohan with a SINGLE soldier. Every other good character released in the line is named.

Not really... the two soldiers of the dead in the infamous pirate ship fight on the good side. Which makes their existence even more absurd: why did LEGO waste 2 prints in a single set based on a somewhat obscure scene?

[BrickBob Studpants]

Not really... the two soldiers of the dead in the infamous pirate ship fight on the good side. Which makes their existence even more absurd: why did LEGO waste 2 prints in a single set based on a somewhat obscure scene?

Try looking at it from a kid's perspective: what's cooler - a regular boring human soldier (with a somewhat fancy helmet) or freakin' glow-in-the-dark ghost zombies?

[Deathleech]

Try looking at it from a kid's perspective: what's cooler - a regular boring human soldier (with a somewhat fancy helmet) or freakin' glow-in-the-dark ghost zombies?

Exactly. Lego seems to love to do ghosts or apparitions any chance they get. The Necromancer, Witch King, Undead, etc. While technically a good soldier, the Undead aren't the same as the other factions in that they aren't even living anymore.

[Blakstone]

And from a kid's point of view they were bad guys that threatened Aragorn et al until they turned good.

[AFOLguy1970]

This grasping at straws and hoping against hope is becoming really frustrating and the inevitable disappointment will only hurt more. I'll try to approach this from a worst-case scenario mindset - the lower my expectations, the smaller my disappointment: there will be no more Lord of the Rings sets. And even if there will be a third and final wave, this is what I expect:

The Destruction of the Ring (20$)

Set: A small rocky outcropping with glowing orange pieces

Action feature: catapult function to hurl a character

Minifigs: Frodo, Sam (both with new print) and Gollum

Galadriel's Treehouse (40$)

Set: the Lothlorien set seen in the video game plus Galadriel's mirror

Action feature: flick fire missile in the tree house

Minifigs: Galadriel, Frodo, Gimli and Legolas

Treebeard encounter (25$)

Set: brick-build ent and some random bushes

Action feature: the ent is highly mobile

Minifigs: Merry, Pippin, one orc

Battle for Minas Tirith (70$)

Set: a white wall structure with green gate and battering ram

Action feature: battering ram uses new firing mechanism (similar to Lake-town set) to 'destroy' the gate, flick fire missiles and small catapults on the wall

Minifigs: Gandalf the White, Pippin in Gondor armour, Eomer, three orcs (plus one horse)

Your hopes are still too high, especially with that Gondor armor thing going on. I was thinking more along the lines of:

Farmor Maggot's field: Merry, Pippin, some carrots, a few trees $15

Crebain from Dunland: Legolas, Gimli, Frodo, Gandalf, a huge brick built rock for them to hide under, and several birds using the pet shop mold in black $25

Edoras: Gandalf the White, Aragorn, Theoden with two expressions, Grima Wormtongue, Gimli, a Rohan guard, a horse (but not Shadowfax), and the hall. The throne would have a feature which can eject whoever is sitting on it. There would be tables with food on it. Basically a rehash of the keep in Helm's Deep as far as stickers and setup is concerned. $60

Barad Dur, the flagship set, Very similar in appearance to Orthanc, but smaller since it is not a an exclusive set. Brick built eye on top with light brick. Contains Gollum in the basement attached to some torture device, 2 Nazgul,4 Mordor orcs, and the Mouth of Sauron. Features a room with a black empty throne, prisons with a break out feature, rotating eye on top, Collapsing bridge entrance, and lots of flick fire and spring loaded action. The eye itself would have the largest spring loaded shooter. $100

[Borador]

Your hopes are still too high, especially with that Gondor armor thing going on. I was thinking more along the lines of:

Farmor Maggot's field: Merry, Pippin, some carrots, a few trees $15

Crebain from Dunland: Legolas, Gimli, Frodo, Gandalf, a huge brick built rock for them to hide under, and several birds using the pet shop mold in black $25

Edoras: Gandalf the White, Aragorn, Theoden with two exp<b></b>ressions, Grima Wormtongue, Gimli, a Rohan guard, a horse (but not Shadowfax), and the hall. The throne would have a feature which can eject whoever is sitting on it. There would be tables with food on it. Basically a rehash of the keep in Helm's Deep as far as stickers and setup is concerned. $60

Barad Dur, the flagship set, Very similar in appearance to Orthanc, but smaller since it is not a an exclusive set. Brick built eye on top with light brick. Contains Gollum in the basement attached to some torture device, 2 Nazgul,4 Mordor orcs, and the Mouth of Sauron. Features a room with a black empty throne, prisons with a break out feature, rotating eye on top, Collapsing bridge entrance, and lots of flick fire and spring loaded action. The eye itself would have the largest spring loaded shooter. $100

Yeah, that's a bit more realistic. Though somehow I think I'd still take that over no more Middle Earth at all... If nothing else, that Barud Dur sounds kinda fun. Spring Shooter Eye of Sauron? I'll take ten!

[Blakstone]

"There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept."

[Faefrost]

But lets do some calculation here.... lets, for the sake of the argument, say there are 1000 people like me, or even people who buy more..... afterall we all seen that MOC where Helm's Deep had over 1000 uruk hais in display if I am not mistaken (or was it even more?) that guy(s) who made that MOC had to buy 250 UHA alone! You think anyone in the world bought as many Elrond's councils? :P

Ok so you say LEGO does not take a factor in multi purchases... but isnt that kinda a bad move? Its a loss of potential revenue, I bet a LEGO LOTR chess would fly of the shelves, and I bet if they've put up a Gondor battle pack with 2 new molds (helmet and shield) and put it on their page as preorder with note: we will produce them if community preorders atleast 10.000 I AM 99% sure it would be preordered atleast 10.000 times.......

Now then lets move into the area where LEGO did factor in multiple purchase. Black Gates..... they designed the set with purpose of purchasing it ATLEAST twice (they said that themselves right) and then they make a totally dumb move of putting 3/5 figs named characters...... seriously? Now I did not even buy 1 set of that, because I want two, but I dont want to support their dumb move of selling us named figs...... how can you consider such move of actually advertising multiple purchases and then putting in so many named characters..... even when i was a kid, and my grandfather bought me LEGO I hated it when i got Majistos, was so annoying, i always chose sets that had troops in now majistos, you got 1, thats fine, you did not need anymore, I threw them away....

We are mostly all awaare of that fact, however noone asked for a perfect or almost perfect recreation of the movies, but we did and still do ask, to complete the line and atleast give us figures we need to recreate the ''perfection'' ourselves....... Licensed themes are (to me) 80% about figures and 20% about display value..... If they end the line now, I will be left with a beautiful display of Helm's Deep with 100+ uruks and Rohan soldiers with Eomer and Gandalf assaulting them and saving Theoden, and a nice display of Bag End and whole fellowship + Saruman and Radagast and Thorin...... So much money will be left in my pocket, that I would want to spend it but LEGO is not delivering the ''correct'' figures in better settings....

But LEGO did have out 2 ''good'' castles at the ''same''(less than 24 months apart) time, King's Castle from Castle line + Helm's Deep

Sigh! Yeah you might be able to get 10,000 pre orders for a "battle pack". The problem is for a single new mold you would need somewhere around 500,000. That's why ideas sets can't do new parts. That's why D2C sets do not do new parts (only exception was the train wheels). A new mold costs around $200,000 usd. With your 10,000 pre orders that means the new mold is $20 per set before you put a single piece of plastic in. I'm gonna guess, just based on the level of bitching that you all gave Uruk Hai Army and Mirkwood Elves that the bulk of you would not be interested in a $45 4 figure battle pack.

And that is LotR's huge problem. It sells comfortably within a niche. Probably even profitably to a point. But it doesn't hit the huge numbers wanted for and by the big box retail distribution. And there are not enough niche collectors to make up for this. Lego loves multi set buyers. But they can't plan for them. They are not a predictable market. They are great to have, but in trying to appeal to them they end up with sets the regular retail customers don't want. Because most of their customers want variety and named characters.

Castle and LotR are not the same thing and they do not compete in Lego's eyes. The Kings Castle and Helms Deep were released in well differentiated lines a year apart, and were fully distinct, from packaging to target age to where they were placed on store shelves. (Yes Lego gives shelving guidance for their product. )

[Dr.Cogg]

Around how much does it cost for a new mini figure print ?

[Black Numenorean]

Tlc has not comunicated about the end of lego Lotr yet. So we can hope !

[Lynx]

A new mold costs around $200,000 usd.

Just out of curiosity, do you know why a single LEGO mold is that much more expensive than other plastic items? For instance, some board games contain more than 20 finely molded plastic figures. Board games are a real niche market, and some games are considered hugely successful when selling 50,000 copies.

[Deathleech]

Sigh! Yeah you might be able to get 10,000 pre orders for a "battle pack". The problem is for a single new mold you would need somewhere around 500,000. That's why ideas sets can't do new parts. That's why D2C sets do not do new parts (only exception was the train wheels). A new mold costs around $200,000 usd. With your 10,000 pre orders that means the new mold is $20 per set before you put a single piece of plastic in. I'm gonna guess, just based on the level of bitching that you all gave Uruk Hai Army and Mirkwood Elves that the bulk of you would not be interested in a $45 4 figure battle pack.

And that is LotR's huge problem. It sells comfortably within a niche. Probably even profitably to a point. But it doesn't hit the huge numbers wanted for and by the big box retail distribution. And there are not enough niche collectors to make up for this. Lego loves multi set buyers. But they can't plan for them. They are not a predictable market. They are great to have, but in trying to appeal to them they end up with sets the regular retail customers don't want. Because most of their customers want variety and named characters.

How much do the softer molds for the CMF series cost? I presume much less considering there are so many per wave? That is another reason I suggested doing a LotR CFM series. The cheaper molds would work well for LotR, which requires a substantial amount.

Also, I dunno about others but I would GLADLY pay $45 for a Gondor Army Builder if it had 6 minifigures like UHA and MEA. As longas it had at least 2 Gondor Soldiers with new helms and prints, Roman Shields re-used and re-colored, and at least 3 armored orc prints with the Fantasy Era helm I'm all in.

Just out of curiosity, do you know why a single LEGO mold is that much more expensive than other plastic items? For instance, some board games contain more than 20 finely molded plastic figures. Board games are a real niche market, and some games are considered hugely successful when selling 50,000 copies.

It's the type of plastic used. ABS requires much more expesnive molds and machinery. That's why Megabloks can mass produce different figures for sets and have so many different parts, but the plastic feels like crap.

Edited August 22, 2014 by Deathleech