Custom molds hate

[Omicron]

I'm completely against custom molds and Brickarms/forge. When I'm looking around on Flickr and I see some pictures using non-Lego molds, I just want to post a comment in all caps. When I rarely, rarely, make a custom fig, I only use paint and clay. I never have and I never will cut a Lego piece.

Wow. Why so much hate?

-Omi

[Vindicare]

I'm completely against custom molds and Brickarms/forge. When I'm looking around on Flickr and I see some pictures using non-Lego molds, I just want to post a comment in all caps. When I rarely, rarely, make a custom fig, I only use paint and clay. I never have and I never will cut a Lego piece.

How is using paint and/or clay to make a weapon any different than using plastic?

[Itaria No Shintaku]

I'm completely against custom molds and Brickarms/forge. When I'm looking around on Flickr and I see some pictures using non-Lego molds, I just want to post a comment in all caps. When I rarely, rarely, make a custom fig, I only use paint and clay. I never have and I never will cut a Lego piece.

So I am not alone.

Thanks, man.

It is all down to personal preference and taste in any hobby. I think what other people do should be the least of your worries and that energy should be put into your own work. make whatever you do the best you can do and that's all anyone should care about.

I disagree with you. I think that if people cared only of their own business without looking at others' works, nobody would have put some efforts into get things better. I put a lot of efforts in my work since I actually posted pictures of a 36 baseplates castle scenario, but let me explain better:

My hate for custom molds has a reason: I can't stand people creating parts for making WAR minifigures and soldiers.

For the ones who play LEGO knowing their toy, will surely know that we had no green bricks for a long time because at TLC were afraid somebody could create military jeeps or tanks out of them.

Though for Star Wars or Indiana Jones they created some molds with guns or machine guns, they are and will remain FICTIONAL worlds.

I probably confused two things I really disagree in LEGO building and I put together in the same argument. For this, I beg pardon. It's just I really can't stand people making soldiers out of LEGO minifigures (or molding guns and bombs), and second, I feel using custom molds for bricks in a MOC (or third party) is quite like cheating because TLC did never create those ones. I was jury in a contest for best MOC for kids last month, and I pointed out that a MOC was built with a lot of megabloks pieces. Though the MOC was brilliant, I had it disqualified for this reason.

So I beg pardon if I mixed up two different arguments in the same one, what I really hate is not custom molds, but war molds.

[obsidianheart]

Though for Star Wars or Indiana Jones they created some molds with guns or machine guns, they are and will remain FICTIONAL worlds.

Wait, so what if someone used the third party custom molded weapons for only fictional settings. Would that make it technically okay? Going to use my preferred theme as an example here: The Agents sets had a lot of weapons and bombs used that were straight-up official pieces. Chainsaw hands, pistols (come on, we all know that's what those hose nozzles were supposed to be), and a character fond of chucking bundles of dynamite at the opposition. So if someone were to use third party weapons molds, still keeping it within the fictional theme, would it still be such a negative thing?

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Wait, so what if someone used the third party custom molded weapons for only fictional settings. Would that make it technically okay? Going to use my preferred theme as an example here: The Agents sets had a lot of weapons and bombs used that were straight-up official pieces. Chainsaw hands, pistols (come on, we all know that's what those hose nozzles were supposed to be), and a character fond of chucking bundles of dynamite at the opposition. So if someone were to use third party weapons molds, still keeping it within the fictional theme, would it still be such a negative thing?

Sorry I probably wasn't enough clear. I can't stand the fact itself that instead producing objects, tools, and the like, this custom molds maker are usually on guns, bombs, life vests, army caps... all things for armies, war, and so on. Why don't they mold, eg., a Vacuum Cleaner (apart from the fabuland one, we have no one) or headphones, or a washing sponge whatever you can imagine... no, they focus on destructive things, armies, and so on. And, again, Agents are created by TLC to appear fictional. Do you happen to see the enemies in that series? Do you usually fight against robotic men or people with a trans-yellow head? Nope. TLC has never intended his toys to be plaied for making representations of real war and the ONLY exception of soldiers that have been created is for the TOY STORY brand.

[LuxorV]

I can see your points, Itaria No Shintaku, and I feel compelled to add to the discussion for many reasons, for example being the MCW Mod here and being Italian myself.

First of all, I share your high opinion on LEGO parts' value and the dislike to mod them, since I always saw those as valuable items. On the other hand, I do not share your distinction based on economical value (or cost) alone. I feel the way I feel towards my LEGO parts mostly because I enjoy using them as they are, with their finished edges, smooth (well, most parts are, anyway) surfaces and so on. The main thing restraining me from using those to make customs is the fear I'd ruin them (to the point I prefer to buy/use other brands parts for my customs, or sculpting clay, and leave the original parts un-altered). Others, more experienced and confident, customisers do not share this fear, and this allows them to take the risk to make some wonderful creations. As badger said above, it's a matter of personal values, and I do not think it can be labelled as 'your parts cost less, so you can vandalise them light-hartedly' only.

As for the sheer purist or not-purist approach to customisation, I'm thorn between the two extremes. I like custom parts, like many others, because they add a greater variety to the LEGO world. On the other hand, I sometimes find they do not feel right in the context of some MOCs. I think it depends on the way one builds and also presents his creations. I've seen simple MOCs with a few selected custom parts which look great and blend perfectly. I've also seen horrible mish-mashes of official and custom parts which make one grind his teeth.

Lastly, I do not believe custom brands make only weapons and exploding things. Just look at BrickForge's palette, and you'll find lots of items other than weapons. BrickArms is more weapons oriented (well, just look at the name ), but you can see in their forum they are exploring other areas, too; if I remember correctly, there is a project about an hair dryer somewhere there, for example. But my main point is they do not make those weapons to fuel violence in the users hearts, but just to add more details to the generic, and often time-biased palette of LEGO's own weapons. Yes, they make war-related/violent material, but so does LEGO, and pretty much any other toy company like LEGO. I love Zoids, too, but those are just huge weapons shaped like robotic animals, really! On the other hand, as I and many others have stated, the custom LEGO related weapons are appreciated primarily for their accuracy to the original material, and for the craftsmanship involved in their making.

To conclude this long rant-ish post, I think you, as much as anybody else, are entitled of your opinions on what you like or not like in the LEGO world, and should try to enjoy those thigs to the max, without limiting th others' freedom to do the same. You see a cusom you do not like, just move along, and you'll find plenty of other MOCs you'll appreciate more!

[Itaria No Shintaku]

To conclude this long rant-ish post, I think you, as much as anybody else, are entitled of your opinions on what you like or not like in the LEGO world, and should try to enjoy those thigs to the max, without limiting th others' freedom to do the same. You see a cusom you do not like, just move along, and you'll find plenty of other MOCs you'll appreciate more!

Yes perhaps the misplaced use of the word "hate" has shifted the whole argument to another level... But to be honest when it comes on MOCs on this or whatever forum, if you say "yay, you're great, such a wonderful MOC " you're normal, whereas if you say "I dislike this and that " you're acting strange, and other people may refer you as a rude person. To improve anybody's skill you must stay real. This is my opinion. So when I see a MOC using megabloks (or if you're italian, you'd know UNIKO ), I can't like that, whatever the MOC is, for me it's no more LEGO, in my head it becomes like Playmobil... and story over. I know other people thinking like I do, like Jackjonespaw said...

so it comes to me another question to all people who said that they have no problems in putting third parts' parts in their MOCs... if you happen to buy kgs of LEGO via ebay auctions, and then you find a lot of Megabloks parts, don't you feel like cheated?

Well I do, if you say LEGO, LEGO must be. I have placed negative feedbacks for auctions on ebays resulting into being mix of LEGO and megabloks, and I have those megabloks re-sold in another auction I did, because they're not LEGO!

I am an AFOL, not an AFOL&MB

I can see that it can be difficult to understand for people who are used to mix the parts since their childhood, so I don't blame who doesn't understand me... I sometimes buy LEGO products I don't use, but I like the idea, just for making my little part into encouraging this company.

I mean, clearly they will never give a damn of who I am or what I do, but I love LEGO they are part of my life and they remind me of my happy childhood, they're like a Time Machine for me...

If someone for any reason feels like insulted from my words, please consider they were never meant for this purpose.

[L@go]

Well I do, if you say LEGO, LEGO must be. I have placed negative feedbacks for auctions on ebays resulting into being mix of LEGO and megabloks, and I have those megabloks re-sold in another auction I did, because they're not LEGO!

From what I've seen on this forum during the roughly three years I've been visiting it, I would estimate that the vast majority of the members here agrees with you about Megabloks. I would also estimate that the vast majority disagrees with you about BrickForge, BrickArms, Arealight and so on.

The reason for that is most likely that while Megabloks is part of a major toy company which competes directly with Lego, the other ones are not - they're small companies started by Lego fans to offer items that aren't currently manufactured by Lego itself. As I said earlier: It's a matter of adding to the Lego experience as opposed to replacing the Lego experience.

That said, nobody's denying you your right to a differing opinion :)

Edited May 14, 2012 by L@go

[Lyichir]

I have no issue with custom LEGO parts being used in MOCs. That said, I never use such molds myself, largely because most of the ones I've ever received are grab bags of oddly-colored weapons I got as freebies at conventions. And I always appreciate a creative use of an official part over a non-official custom. And finally, I dislike some custom parts because they seem almost too high in detail compared to official parts. That's why I tend to prefer Brickforge over Brickarms, since Brickforge makes a determined effort to make sure all of their molds are visually compatible with official LEGO.

[Omicron]

My hate for custom molds has a reason: I can't stand people creating parts for making WAR minifigures and soldiers.

Alright so that explains BrickArms and BrickWarriors. So why the disdain towards BrickForge and Arealight?

n. Why don't they mold, eg., a Vacuum Cleaner (apart from the fabuland one, we have no one) or headphones, or a washing sponge whatever you can imagine... no, they focus on destructive things, armies, and so on.

BrickForge makes lampposts, microphones, cleavers, golf clubs, saws, shovels, sickles, crowbars, reins, canteens, backpacks, Shepard crooks, electric guitars, acoustic guitars, violins, drumsticks, cows, pigs, sheep, bottles of all variety.

Or are those too destructive for you?

so it comes to me another question to all people who said that they have no problems in putting third parts' parts in their MOCs... if you happen to buy kgs of LEGO via ebay auctions, and then you find a lot of Megabloks parts, don't you feel like cheated?

No.

To improve anybody's skill you must stay real.

And I do. Lego encourages creativity, ad that's exactly what customizing is. To go against it means your going against creative minds.

-Omi

[the enigma that is badger]

My hate for custom molds has a reason: I can't stand people creating parts for making WAR minifigures and soldiers.

The reason why Will first started designing and producing BrickArms accessories is simple: there was and continues to be a strong demand in the community for modern, WWII, and scifi weaponry, and LEGO has made it clear on numerous occasions they do not plan to ever create such accessories. However, LEGO also has also stated that conflict-based play and building is a key component of childhood development particularly for the male core audience:

(From the 2011 LEGO Progress Report)

While LEGO does not choose to extend their accessories and other products to some aspects of conflict (particularly modern warfare), their rationale is equally valid when it comes to BrickArms: building and play with LEGO produces supplemented by BrickArms accessories helps younger builders process historical and contemporary events and how to handle conflict and issues of moral agency.

Of course, many AFOLs also find BrickArms invaluable in their building as many wish to add a greater degree of accuracy and detail to their displays in regards to minifig weaponry and headgear. Ultimately, Will has been truly honored that so many builders of all different ages enjoy his work and find ways to incorporate BrickArms accessories into their builds.

Why don't they mold, eg., a Vacuum Cleaner (apart from the fabuland one, we have no one) or headphones, or a washing sponge whatever you can imagine... no, they focus on destructive things, armies, and so on.

The answer to why BrickArms doesn't focus on other themes is again simple: Will feels those are themes LEGO has made clear they explore with their products. BrickArms exists to provide builders with elements LEGO will most likely never produce, namely accurate and detailed historical, modern, and scifi weaponry and other accessories. In this way, Will seeks to compliment and add to the building experience in a manner that in no way infringes on what LEGO already creates or may possibly create. The designers at Billund have truly been an an exceptional roll the last few years when it comes to the quality and quantity of minifigs and minifig accessories they've created, and it makes little sense to Will for him to try to compete!

If you're not fond of a given theme of building, you're obviously not obligated to build any MOCs in it. That's your prerogative. However, it's also the right of every other builder to create MOCs in the themes they'd like to explore in their creations. Building is an artistic means of self-expression, and while you don't choose to build anything with a conflict-based theme, you should respect that others choose to do so.

I dislike some custom parts because they seem almost too high in detail compared to official parts

The balance between detail, abstraction, and playability is something Will gives considerable attention to in designing every BrickArms product. Ultimately, Will tries to capture the caricature nature of the minifig aesthetic along with the added details and accuracy that BrickArms accessories the distinctive products they are (again, Will has no interest in copying LEGO or infringing on their design aesthetic) but in a way that still allows them to fit seamlessly into LEGO builds. It's a difficult process (for every builder that thinks less detail or abstraction should be featured in a give item, there's almost always someone that feels the opposite!), but the overall feedback on Will's design aesthetic appears to be "just right"

[Itaria No Shintaku]

(From the 2011 LEGO Progress Report)

Here I can read:

"The LEGO play experience must never be related to real world modern warfare"

So actually Brickarms goes against one of TLC focuses/missions, and all the modders who create parts for "real world modern warfare" are. So I don't really believe that TLC is encouraging these modding "companies", against what some said before.

I can understand stimulating fantasy, creativity, but I share TLC missions. I don't blame people for not doing that, but I don't accept people telling me that TLC encourages modding companies because that's simply not true.

Building is an artistic means of self-expression, and while you don't choose to build anything with a conflict-based theme, you should respect that others choose to do so.

Sorry I don't share your vision. I believe that if someone's creativity is representing something that is an offence to me (or to my lifestyle) I cannot respect that person's choice, like you said. I might not be entitled to disrespect the person itself, this is clear, but I feel entitled to disrespect his choices.

I believe that respecting or disrespecting something is part of an individual's freedom. So I am free to respect/disrespect based on my own beliefs until I do not harm somebody else, or harm his own freedom.

To make you understand my point, I would rather be offended by seeing a MOC based on black people slavery. Though it's an hystorical truth, I don't feel the urge to make such MOCs or to see such MOCs. And I strongly believe that if somebody created a LEGO ship with all black (reddish brown) minifigs in chains, and posted it here, half eurobricks would feel insulted.

So same goes with my avversion to war. You can share my opinion or not, but you really can't suggest me to respect people's choice to do such MOCs or mold such parts, sorry.

Again no offence meant, I am easy, it's just talking.

[LuxorV]

Ok, since this is getting pretty technical on why some customs are produced and others aren't, I'll move this topic to the MCW, where most people directly involved in this can share their opinions.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I'm going to add my two cents.

I was talking about that in my LUG some days ago, we saw a really beautiful Lego Train circuit.. but it ran over a diorama made with fictional NON LEGO grass, fictional NON LEGO mountains... so perhaps it makes the whole thing look greater than if it was made only by LEGO parts, but I feel this is a bit like cheating.

Umm... so??? LEGO does this too. When you go to a LEGO store, I saw Atlantis sets all displayed in "rock" or painted Styrofoam to look like underwater mountains. They carved caves and sea trenches. Does TLC "cheat?"

[the enigma that is badger]

So actually Brickarms goes against one of TLC focuses/missions, and all the modders who create parts for "real world modern warfare" are. So I don't really believe that TLC is encouraging these modding "companies", against what some said before.

To be clear, neither Will nor myself have ever made any claim to the effect that LEGO approves of or encourages BrickArms in any way. To be sure, LEGO is more than well-aware of BrickArms, and LEGO and BrickArms enjoy a cordial, if distant, relationship as Will respects LEGO intellectual property by not creating any accessories or elements that infringe on LEGO IP, specifically avoids creating accessories in themes that LEGO historically has explored with their own products and is likely to continue to do so, and very clearly labels all BrickArms products as custom elements that are in no way associated with the LEGO brand.

Again, LEGO has made clear that some themes do not fit how they choose to develop and market their brand. However, builders, especially teens and adults, are very much interested in exploring these themes as a means of self-expression and creativity. Through BrickArms, Will is happy to produce accessories for these themes to provides those builders with elements, particularly minifig accessories, that they might find useful in building in those themes.

I believe that respecting or disrespecting something is part of an individual's freedom. So I am free to respect/disrespect based on my own beliefs until I do not harm somebody else, or harm his own freedom.

Again, as I've stated several times now, you are free to build or not build in whatever themes fit your personal beliefs. What troubles me is your argument that building in some themes is somehow fundamentally immoral and/or a tacit endorsement of a particular ideology. Choosing to build an accurate WWII-era squad of soldier or tank doesn't make a builder any more in favor of war or likely to condone violence than building Dungeons & Dragons-based MOCs implies an individual is a disciple of the occult (and apparently unfit for service in the Israeli army).

LEGO produces bricks and other elements. Those items are packaged into sets which are LEGO chooses to produce in certain themes and market in particular ways to best reach their core audience. That you choose to only build in those themes is your decision, and if you enjoy doing so, I'm glad you do. However, the bricks themselves have no theme or market; working from their own imagination and creativity (along with whatever other elements they choose to incorporate), builders of all ages are constrained only by their imagination and inspiration in what they can create. What I'm encouraging you to consider is that even if you personally find some themes unacceptable to explore, you should respect those that do choose to build in them and give them the courtesy of the ability to share their work without judgements or inferences about their moral character for building MOCs in those themes.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Choosing to build an accurate WWII-era squad of soldier or tank doesn't make a builder any more in favor of war or likely to condone violence than building Dungeons & Dragons-based MOCs implies an individual is a disciple of the occult (and apparently unfit for service in the Israeli army).

I am really really sorry, and it's not a word just put there, I really am, but reading this comparison makes me want to end this argument briefly.

I beg pardon but I can't continue up to this premises.

I really wish you fun with our bricks.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Itaria No Shintaku

[Omicron]

Here I can read:

"The LEGO play experience must never be related to real world modern warfare"

So actually Brickarms goes against one of TLC focuses/missions, and all the modders who create parts for "real world modern warfare" are. So I don't really believe that TLC is encouraging these modding "companies", against what some said before.

BrickArms doesn't go against TLC's focus because BrickArms isn't Lego.

So I am free to respect/disrespect based on my own beliefs until I do not harm somebody else, or harm his own freedom.

Sounds unjustified if you ask me.

But your views harm my freedom.

-Omi

[Wardancer]

I think customizing is "ok" in every form. Having come out of the dark ages not long ago, I still marval at the creativity unleashed by this. And I enjoy building an army that no one else will ever have unless he copies all my customs.

My own perspective is that of a purist customizer, i.e. I enjoy customs most which look as if TLG would have produced them. The original LEGO has a certain naive, stylized look which should be preserved besides from pure compatibility to studs.

This applies to custom products as well as customization techniques (again, I am speaking of my personal tastes here).

Concerning products, it is a fine line. A Brickarms Damian Blade looks like an original product to me, a Brickarms Claimore a bit less... Some customizers have a very distinct style, most of their stuff doesn't work for me.

With techniques, there are some that take away the LEGO charm. Drybrushing for example, makes stuff look like Warhammer, also self-bent metal parts. Great customs may be the result (there was a great space marine here somewhere), but that is not what I go for.

I still hate megablocks and clone brands. But not for aestetic reasons, just because they imitate TLG and do it poorly.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

BrickArms doesn't go against TLC's focus because BrickArms isn't Lego.

I can go agaisnt someone else's focus without being that person.

Sounds unjustified if you ask me.

Ok that's your opinion. I didn't ask for it, but I respect your right to tell that.

But your views harm my freedom.

No they don't. They don't EVEN limit your freedom, I wonder how they could absurdly HARM it. You are still free to do whatever you want. Say whatever you like. Write whatever you like. So please don't make confusion on important things, thanks, it would really help.

By the way, since your manners are irritating me, I will stop replying to you.

I surely can consider that it's me being too sensitive, but before starting a useless fight, I close this here. It's not the first time that I disagree with you and it amazes me that you have been the only user in nearly two years since I registered that I find offensive and unpolite. But again, as I said, you probably are not and it's just my problem, so maybe reading this can help you feel better.

If I can, I suggest you not to bother replying me since I really won't spawn hate over hate. As I said, I'm a really pacific person and we're here basicly to discuss about a wonderful toy, not to fight each other.

I really shouldn't have started this topic.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Sounds unjustified if you ask me.

But your views harm my freedom.

-Omi

That's a poor argument. I'm sure people across the globe may understand this, but as an American- you surely will:

If a person is for gun-control and against the 2nd amendment, does he not have the right to voice his opinion? It doesn't harm your freedom, you are harming his.

BrickArms doesn't go against TLC's focus because BrickArms isn't Lego.

So? It still goes against TLC's focus.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

That's a poor argument. I'm sure people across the globe may understand this, but as an American- you surely will:

If a person is for gun-control and against the 2nd amendment, does he not have the right to voice his opinion? It doesn't harm your freedom, you are harming his.

So? It still goes against TLC's focus.

Oh thank you... I really was feeling like I was alone in my reasonments.

[Omicron]

So? It still goes against TLC's focus.

No because it isn't Lego, therefore not part of the focus. By saying it goes against the focus means you are saying it is Lego.

Ok that's your opinion. I didn't ask for it, but I respect your right to tell that.

Actually you did ask for my opinion, and for everyone else's. First post, Seventh line down, first sentence. It seems you're just wanting people to agree with you and shoot down everyone else who is against your opinion, like me and badger.

If a person is for gun-control and against the 2nd amendment, does he not have the right to voice his opinion? It doesn't harm your freedom, you are harming his.

Yes and no. The person is harming my freedom and right given to me by the second amendment. While his rights are protected, mine are as well.

And Itaria, I mean no disrespect. I just want to know the origin of all the disdain. It makes me curious.

-Omi

[obsidianheart]

I think it is a perilous thing to outright discount the products made by 3rd party customizers these days. I have noticed, particularly within the Collectible Minifig line, that LEGO is producing a lot of items that appear shall we say "inspired" by 3rd party equipment manufacturers. Brickforge more often that Brickarms, admittedly, but that is primarily due to BA's focus on (fantastic) modern combat weapons. But I seem to remember them doing a syringe first. So hating on 3rd party parts and accessories may very well be hating on the inspiration for parts of the future of the line we all love.

[Omicron]

I think it is a perilous thing to outright discount the products made by 3rd party customizers these days. I have noticed, particularly within the Collectible Minifig line, that LEGO is producing a lot of items that appear shall we say "inspired" by 3rd party equipment manufacturers. Brickforge more often that Brickarms, admittedly, but that is primarily due to BA's focus on (fantastic) modern combat weapons. But I seem to remember them doing a syringe first. So hating on 3rd party parts and accessories may very well be hating on the inspiration for parts of the future of the line we all love.

Lego has also been known to use some BF items in prototypes as well, before making their versions.

-Omi

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Yes and no. The person is harming my freedom and right given to me by the second amendment. While his rights are protected, mine are as well.

No he is not. He is voicing his opinion. Harming your rights would be him breaking into your house and seizing any firearm.

No because it isn't Lego, therefore not part of the focus. By saying it goes against the focus means you are saying it is Lego.

What?

therefore not part of the focus.

You just agreed with us. If TLC says: Modern Day Warfare is not our focus, then Brickarms goes against the focus. Why? Because Brickarms is modern weapons. It is not a LEGO product, but is still against the LEGO Company's focus. Consider this:

DirectTV days: Our focus is to provide television, blu-ray, movies, etc. to customers.

BlockBuster says: Don't get DirectTV, rent movies on our disks.

Is Blockbuster going against the focus? Of course. It is not a part of DirectTV, but it clearly is against "the focus."

Actually you did ask for my opinion, and for everyone else's. First post, Seventh line down, first sentence. It seems you're just wanting people to agree with you and shoot down everyone else who is against your opinion, like me and badger.

No he didn't ask for your opinion. You are talking about the first post. When Itaria said he didn't ask for your opinion, it was in response to your "unjustified" comment. Read what the other side is actually saying?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Capt.JohnPaul