Ship Ranking System

[Bonaparte]

I found a verrrry interesting article on Wikipedia.

It is a ranking system that was used by the Royal Navy for its warships.

Examples:

- Archeron of Mr. Tiber is a "Frigate" (lets say a "4th rate" since it has 2 gun deck and about 42 guns).

- The Excalibur (that I'm building) can be classified as "sloop of war" since it has 1 gun-deck and 16-18 guns. However, by adding 2 more guns it will become a "6th rate Frigate".

- The Isabella (by LeGoPiRaTe) is "Gun-brig" or "Cutter" since it has 1 gun-deck and between 6-14 guns.

What class is your ship?

Who has a 1st rate ship of the line (100 or more guns, 3+ decks, forecastle and quarterdeck)?

[oo7]

I also sugest you take a look at this Wikipedia article.

What class is your ship?

Looks like The HMS Prometheus clipper is an 8 gun cutter.

Who has a 1st rate ship of the line (100 or more guns, 3+ decks, forecastle and quarterdeck)?

Jonathan Keller does.

[Legeaux]

I think there are some inaccuracies in that article (eg a ship with less than three masts being called a 'sloop').

But more importantly, why would you apply the Royal Navy rating to non Royal Navy vessels?

While used in the RN, the rating would generally give way to the actual number of guns in documents.... eg Shipname (Number of Guns), possibly with the type of guns as a qualifier.

French frigates were described as heavy or light, and there wasn't a Sloop-of-war in sight (corvette being the preferred term).

[Mister Phes]

I found a verrrry interesting article on Wikipedia.

It is a ranking system that was used by the Royal Navy for its warships.

Examples:

- Archeron of Mr. Tiber is a "Frigate" (lets say a "4th rate" since it has 2 gun deck and about 42 guns).

According to the Wikipedia article 4th rate is 50 to 60 gun, while 5th rate is 32 to 40 guns.

But what I don't get is what rating a ship has if it has between 40 and 50 guns?

[Aaron Morse]

4 1/2 rate...ha! I crack me up...hows this then. remember these terms where used over a two hundred year age of sailing in primarily the british navy so there were some changes to the definitions over time.

First Rate - 100+ Guns

Second Rate - 90-98 Guns

Third Rate - 60-88 Guns

Fourth Rate - 46-60 guns

Fifth Rate - 32-44 guns

Sixth Rate - 20-30 guns

According to the Wikipedia article 4th rate is 50 to 60 gun, while 5th rate is 32 to 40 guns.

But what I don't get is what rating a ship has if it has between 40 and 50 guns?

[Bonaparte]

According to the Wikipedia article 4th rate is 50 to 60 gun, while 5th rate is 32 to 40 guns.

But what I don't get is what rating a ship has if it has between 40 and 50 guns?

I agree there are some "grey zones" in the catalogue system from this article.

I will try to find another source to fill these gaps.

[Mister Phes]

Why would there be "grey zones" though? Its not that complicated to class ships is it?

[Legeaux]

Almost all Lego vessels are going to fall somewhere below sixth rate in any case.

And, historically, most (though certainly not all) pirate vessels would have too.

It's also worth noting that the really big ships 1st, 2nd and some 3rd rates, were little used other than in line of battle and for impressing foreigners!

[Mister Phes]

Exactly how does one determine which rate a LEGO ship falls under? Its not like they're built to scale or with any historic accuracy.

[El Bucanero]

Examples:

- Archeron of Mr. Tiber is a "Frigate" (lets say a "4th rate" since it has 2 gun deck and about 42 guns).

I am trying to build a movie accurate ship so that would be 44 guns, altough my lego version already has cannon ports for 53 cannons...

[Aaron Morse]

Eh? I beg to differ. Mine is very much built to scale.

Exactly how does one determine which rate a LEGO ship falls under? Its not like they're built to scale or with any historic accuracy.

[Mister Phes]

I was referring to the ships built by The LEGO Company, not MOCs.

Mr Morse, how dido you to build yours to scale? I'm curious to know what measurements you made and what you based them on.

[Aaron Morse]

used measurements from cpu model & whitehall info to get all the dimensions, sketched in pics on grid sheet, figured approximately that one stud equaled about one foot (very approxiamately!) Roughed in the keel and started building from there. Btw my the keel on my new ship the Agamemnon is pretty much done, and got 40 cannons built already, it won't be quite as big as "legopirate83's" MOC since his is 100 gunner and mines only 64 but it will be pretty darn accurate and pretty darn big. My wifes having a fit trying to figure out where I can put it.

I was referring to the ships built by The LEGO Company, not MOCs.

Mr Morse, how dido you to build yours to scale? I'm curious to know what measurements you made and what you based them on.

[Evil Willy]

Ha how am I suposed to classify a silly ship like the lotus, when all it has are 4 guns :D

[Bonaparte]

Ha how am I suposed to classify a silly ship like the lotus, when all it has are 4 guns :D

Just add 2 guns and we can call it a Gun-brig or Cutter ;-)

[Mister Phes]

This is certainly confusing me! If the Lotus can be classified as a cutter, then what about "the cutter" in the Imperial Trading Post? What would that be classified as?

[El Bucanero]

The Lotus is a sloop, at least, that is what I think, the armament doesn't matter if your ship is a sloop...It can have 2 guns or 4, or whatever!

[Mister Phes]

Yeah, I've be agreeing with Mr Tiber on that. So where's the masterminds of this Ship Ranking System? I want clarity of the "Cutter" from Imperial Trading Post.

[Capn Frank]

Eh? I beg to differ. Mine is very much built to scale.

hey Aaron,

do you have a website with the pics of your vessel, i'd love to see it! :'-)

Update:

I've found your MOC frigate in the forum.

It looks great!

Using my mystical ninja foresight I predict that you will convice yourself Aaron's ship is the best on the web after seeing it.

LOL! :-D

[Norrington]

It would seem that the HMS Sabre is a brig, as it has 10 guns, but it has 2 firing decks, lower and fore castle, so i'm not sure, is it a brig or a 4th rate frigate with out as many guns?

edit: or is it sloop of war?

Edit:Edit: Now it has 3, stern, fore, and lower!

[El Bucanero]

I'm currently in the progress of el Flor Blanca, a Spanish ship.... I'm not sure yet about here rigging, I can give her one mast, what makes her a sloop, but I can also give her 2 masts, what makes here a brig or a schooner...I'm not out of that yet...

It would seem that the HMS Sabre is a brig, as it has 10 guns, but it has 2 firing decks, lower and fore castle, so i'm not sure, is it a brig or a 4th rate frigate with out as many guns?

edit: or is it sloop of war?

Edit:Edit: Now it has 3, stern, fore, and lower!

Just give us a picture of it so we can decide what type it is! :-D

[Capn Frank]

4 1/2 rate...ha! I crack me up...hows this then. remember these terms where used over a two hundred year age of sailing in primarily the british navy so there were some changes to the definitions over time.

First Rate - 100+ Guns

Second Rate - 90-98 Guns

Third Rate - 60-88 Guns

Fourth Rate - 46-60 guns

Fifth Rate - 32-44 guns

Sixth Rate - 20-30 guns

According to this my frigate started out as a Fifth Rate ship with the standard armament of 34 cannon on one gun deck. Now that the pirates took it over, I'd be considered a Fourth Rate ship with the added 15-20 cannons on the top deck.

I think legopirate83 would have the only First Rate lego ship i've seen that's seems close to scale.

[oo7]

hey Aaron,

do you have a website with the pics of your vessel, i'd love to see it! :'-)

Using my mystical ninja foresight I predict that you will convice yourself Aaron's ship is the best on the web after seeing it.

http://www.mocpages.com/moc.php/21250

this web site uses 3x3 angled bricks, this is my favorite mega pirate moc online right now

Creepy X-D

[Norrington]

Just give us a picture of it so we can decide what type it is! :-D

alas i can't. for it has been sunk by the vile imperial armada! The many imperial gaurd on board faught valiantly, buy lost to a small fleet of armade flagships. :'-( HOw ever do not despair, a new ship, a better ship, is coming with (hopefully X-D ) 2 decks, for sure 3 mast and 12 cannons, she will be quite the force to be reconed with. She in honou of this tradegy (and because of the fact i ran out of original names that hjave never been used before on my ships), will be be Named the HMS Sabre II :'-)

Take that IMperial Armada !

Armada's response: X-O NOt even a fleet of our 1 gunners cn stop this!! X-O

[El Bucanero]

alas i can't. for it has been sunk by the vile imperial armada! The many imperial gaurd on board faught valiantly, buy lost to a small fleet of armade flagships. :'-( HOw ever do not despair, a new ship, a better ship, is coming with (hopefully X-D ) 2 decks, for sure 3 mast and 12 cannons, she will be quite the force to be reconed with. She in honou of this tradegy (and because of the fact i ran out of original names that hjave never been used before on my ships), will be be Named the HMS Sabre II :'-)

Take that IMperial Armada !

Armada's response: X-O NOt even a fleet of our 1 gunners cn stop this!! X-O

2 decks = 1 gun deck and one top deck eh?(excluding sterncastle and forecastle),

this is sometimes confusing. some say a 2 deck ship is a ship with 2 gun decks, others say: it is a ship with 1 gundeck and a topdeck. And if that isn't confusing enough, some also count the hold, the stern- and forecastle....

And being an admiral of a Imperial Armada, we have more then only 1 gun ships!.... :armada1: :skel1: :armada3: :armada2: