Technic Part Questions.. Experts Needed!

[Crtlego]

Hello all!

I was considering making a Lego Direct order but when I realized my estimated cost for the order was really high I looked to see which parts were the most expensive for the quantities I was going to order... The parts responsible were the Extra Stiff 9.5 L Suspension and the new Unimog Tires!!!

I have been waiting to order some 9.5 L springs for a while now (since I only have the shorter ones) and I figured that the new Extra Stiff ones from the new Unimog would fit my new project perfectly (I have not started yet but it is going to be an 8 wheeler and relatively heavy). But since I would have to order 8 of them.. is it worth it? Are they too stiff? Or would it be worth the larger order of some looser springs and then put two per wheel instead of one?

Extra Stiff Suspension from 8110 Unimog U400

The other part was the Unimog Tire, of which I was planning to order 8 of.. I have 8 of the offroader tires (pictured below) but I do not believe they will look suited to my project. Maybe the functionality will be the same, but I do not know. Am I correct to say that the Unimog tires are not as wide as the Offroader ones? This could potentially help with clearance issues particularly when building the body of a vehicle around the wheels that have both suspension and steering. Any recommendations?

It turns out that the Unimog Tires are cheaper on Bricklink than they are from Lego Direct but they are still expensive when buying 8 of them. Is the cost worth it?

Thanks,

Crtlego

Tires from 8297 Offroader

Tires from 8110 Unimog U400

Edited December 7, 2011 by Crtlego

[zewy623]

I'm not an expert. But the shock absorbers will depend on what the vehicle would be, stiffer would be better for off-road or if you going to be using the spring alot more (in a sense they last longer.) And again, like the springs, the tires depend on what the vehicle is. The off-roader tires are more for off road but the unimog is also off-road but i think it would be better for you to use the off road tires for now until you have the chance to buy more unimog ones, or another set comes out with the unimog tires.

All of it is dependant on the vehicle type, extreme off road would need stiff springs and off-roader tires and if its like the unimog, which can go off road if you choose, wouldn't need the stiffer springs and you could still use the off-roader tire but the unimog tire would give it a nicer look.

[Jim]

I'm not an expert. But the shock absorbers will depend on what the vehicle would be, stiffer would be better for off-road or if you going to be using the spring alot more (in a sense they last longer.) And again, like the springs, the tires depend on what the vehicle is. The off-roader tires are more for off road but the unimog is also off-road but i think it would be better for you to use the off road tires for now until you have the chance to buy more unimog ones, or another set comes out with the unimog tires.

All of it is dependant on the vehicle type, extreme off road would need stiff springs and off-roader tires and if its like the unimog, which can go off road if you choose, wouldn't need the stiffer springs and you could still use the off-roader tire but the unimog tire would give it a nicer look.

I concur!

Whether something is worth it, is a hard to answer question. I for one, love the Unimog tires. Anytime I get the chance to fit these, they have precedence over other tires/wheels.

I take it you don't already own a Unimog, since you want to buy 8 tires. Wouldn't it be wise to save up the cash and go for the Unimog? It has 4 tires, suspension, lots of other parts which are great for building trucks and off-roaders? You can try to build your own model with 4 wheels and suspension and maybe later buy an extra set of tires and suspension. Paying 100 USD (I guess) for 8 tires and suspensions is rather expensive, compared to 200 USD (I guess again) for a complete Unimog set with 2000+ parts.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Gekke Ted

[Anio]

You can modulate the stiffness of shock absorbers by reducing the length of the lever arm they are attached to.

It is very interesting to see how a given shock absorber can produce very different results.

Look at the 8297. The suspensions are very strong.

And look at the Concept Car from Nathanaël Kuipers. It uses the same shock absorbers as 8927, but it is very smooth (actually, the best suspensions I have ever seen).

So, I think you can go with the shock absorber of 8110.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Anio

[Crtlego]

I'm not an expert. But the shock absorbers will depend on what the vehicle would be, stiffer would be better for off-road or if you going to be using the spring alot more (in a sense they last longer.) And again, like the springs, the tires depend on what the vehicle is. The off-roader tires are more for off road but the unimog is also off-road but i think it would be better for you to use the off road tires for now until you have the chance to buy more unimog ones, or another set comes out with the unimog tires.

All of it is dependant on the vehicle type, extreme off road would need stiff springs and off-roader tires and if its like the unimog, which can go off road if you choose, wouldn't need the stiffer springs and you could still use the off-roader tire but the unimog tire would give it a nicer look.

Thanks. The vehicle normally runs on pavement but it is meant to be able to cross difficult terrain. Thats why I think the Unimog tires are perfect for the vehicle. But like you said, I will probably wait until prices lower or I have more money to spend on Legos to get them..

I concur!

Whether something is worth it, is a hard to answer question. I for one, love the Unimog tires. Anytime I get the chance to fit these, they have precedence over other tires/wheels.

I take it you don't already own a Unimog, since you want to buy 8 tires. Wouldn't it be wise to save up the cash and go for the Unimog? It has 4 tires, suspension, lots of other parts which are great for building trucks and off-roaders? You can try to build your own model with 4 wheels and suspension and maybe later buy an extra set of tires and suspension. Paying 100 USD (I guess) for 8 tires and suspensions is rather expensive, compared to 200 USD (I guess again) for a complete Unimog set with 2000+ parts.

Yes. I guess asking whether it would be worth it is a rather subjective question. I feel like I would do the same thing if I owned some. I agree with you on buying the Unimog as it is much better cost per part wise, but seeing as how I still don't get the parts I need (and that I can't afford it).. I think I will have to wait on both the Unimog tires and the Unimog. Hopefully, Christmas will be full of surprises!

You can modulate the stiffness of shock absorbers by reducing the length of the lever arm they are attached to.

It is very interesting to see how a given shock absorber can produce very different results.

Look at the 8297. The suspensions are very strong.

And look at the Concept Car from Nathanaël Kuipers. It uses the same shock absorbers as 8927, but it is very smooth (actually, the best suspensions I have ever seen).

So, I think you can go with the shock absorber of 8110.

I see your point. How you use the shock absorbers is just as, if not more, important than the actual shock absorber itself.. for even if you have extra travel (6.5 vs 9.5), if you do not implement it correctly, it will be useless. This also means that there are many combinations to look into. I have experimented plenty with the 6.5L suspension but I think the extra travel is necessary for my project.. The question now is which shock absorber should I get? Bricklink only sells the following types (Minimum of 16 each): soft, hard, extra hard. The soft ones are half the cost of the extra hard ones from Lego Direct. The hard ones are roughly 50 cents cheaper than the Lego Direct ones. And the extra hard from Bricklink are mostly more expensive than the extra hard from Lego Direct. Thus, while I would want to go for the cheaper ones (soft) and order double (total of 16, two per wheel).. they may be too soft even with two per wheel. My vehicle will be relatively heavy (over 10 pounds?) so I need to be able to support the weight.

[DLuders]

@ Crtlego: When I ordered some Unimog-unique parts from Lego Direct in July 2011, the 95292c01 "Technic, Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Extra Hard Spring)" cost $1.91 each. The Lego Part Number is 4619319. That's a lot less than the typical cost of the same part on Bricklink (ranging from USD $2.66 to $10 on Bricklink's Price Guide).

I went to my basement to compare the 95292c01 Extra-Hard shock with the 2909c02 "Technic, Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Hard Spring)" (shown in the second picture below). The Extra-Hard shock feels about ~20% stiffer than the Hard shock, and has slightly-thicker wire. I recommend buying the 8 Extra-Hard shocks you need for your heavy Lego Technic vehicle from Lego Direct. You could give up eating lunch to gather the money needed....

[Crtlego]

@ Crtlego: When I ordered some Unimog-unique parts from Lego Direct in July 2011, the 95292c01 "Technic, Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Extra Hard Spring)" cost $1.91 each. The Lego Part Number is 4619319. That's a lot less than the typical cost of the same part on Bricklink (ranging from USD $2.66 to $10 on Bricklink's Price Guide).

I went to my basement to compare the 95292c01 Extra-Hard shock with the 2909c02 "Technic, Shock Absorber 9.5L, Complete Assembly (Hard Spring)" (shown in the second picture below). The Extra-Hard shock feels about ~20% stiffer than the Hard shock, and has slightly-thicker wire. I recommend buying the 8 Extra-Hard shocks you need for your heavy Lego Technic vehicle from Lego Direct. You could give up eating lunch to gather the money needed....

Thanks DLuders!

I recently called Lego for prices on various parts and unless they give me the price for the wrong part.. the extra hard shocks are now $3.00!!! Now that you say this, I may consider calling them again to check on that price because $1.91 is a much better price!

I wonder why the price would go up? It hasn't been used in additional sets.. yet?

I think I may end up buying the 8 extra hard shocks simply because 16 of any shock absorber is simply too many.

Hahaha. Maybe I will.. but not if I could get my hands on that burger!!

[Crtlego]

I didn't want to start another thread but I have yet another question for you all!

I have the opportunity to purchase the RC receiver, controller, and antennas from the Super Sonic RC in used but supposedly tested and working condition for roughly $60. I have three RC motors already so this would allow me to use them at their full potential.. in other words, without having them stop because of the PF receiver. The RC receiver also has built in steering with proportional control.

The question now is, is it better to buy the RC package, or to buy the Lego rechargeable battery? The rechargeable battery could be used with a variety of PF parts and is also smaller than the normal PF battery. It is expensive, $50 by itself, and needs a separate cable to charge it. I could use the PF rechargeable battery instead of the PF receiver to power the RC motors because the rechargeable battery doesn't (yes, no?) stop if the motor draws too much current. Thus, I could technically control the RC motors by motorizing the power dial on the rechargeable battery OR I could use the older RC setup. Also, for the PF battery, should anything go wrong, I could call Lego Support. But for the Super Sonic RC, the only (but still awesome and very capable) support I would have would be all of you! YAY!! Even though you guys could probably help me fix any potential problems , in the end, I suppose, only Lego Customer Service would replace my parts for free.

So, if anybody has chosen to read my long passage, even though the PF rechargeable battery seems to have many benefits versus the super sonic RC setup, what do you think? Any experiences you would like to share with either one would be greatly appreciated!

[DLuders]

@ Crtlego: Philo's "Lego 9V Technic Motors Compared Characteristics" webpage says that the 5292 Lego RC Buggy Motor is "Very powerful, [but] it also consumes a lot of energy." The USD $50 Lego 8878 Power Functions Rechargeable Battery Box only produces 7.4V (not 9V like you would get from using 6 ea. Alkaline AA batteries in the "regular" Power Functions Battery Box) -- see this Eurobricks post for explanation.

Philo's test results for the 5292 RC Buggy Motor indicated that it will run a lot slower at 7.4V than at 9V (~375 rpm vs. ~500 rpm). If you look at the purple "Current" graph below, you can see how many milliAmps one RC Buggy Motor will consume:

I prefer using the USD $13 88000 Power Functions AAA Battery Box (the second battery box shown above); I can use my own rechargeable AAA batteries, and the overall COST of the box+batteries is cheaper than the 8878 option. I understand that the RUNNING TIME of the AAA Battery Box option will not be as long as the PF Rechargeable Battery Box, but I usually don't play with my sets more than 5 minutes at a time anyway. See the discussion about both PF battery boxes on this Eurobricks post (with its hyperlinks).

Most batteries are rated for milliAmp-Hours (mAH), multiply the milliAmps that your batteries will produce time the hours you plan to use it. I use Energizer AA rechargeable batteries (producing 2450 mAH).

Edited December 10, 2011 by DLuders

[Crtlego]

Philo's test results for the 5292 RC Buggy Motor indicated that it will run a lot slower at 7.4V than at 9V (~375 rpm vs. ~500 rpm). If you look at the purple "Current" graph below, you can see how many milliAmps one RC Buggy Motor will consume:

I prefer using the USD $13 88000 Power Functions AAA Battery Box (the second battery box shown above); I can use my own rechargeable AAA batteries, and the overall COST of the box+batteries is cheaper than the 8878 option. I understand that the RUNNING TIME of the AAA Battery Box option will not be as long as the PF Rechargeable Battery Box, but I usually don't play with my sets more than 5 minutes at a time anyway. See the discussion about both PF battery boxes on this Eurobricks post (with its hyperlinks).

Most batteries are rated for milliAmp-Hours (mAH), multiply the milliAmps that your batteries will produce time the hours you plan to use it. I use Energizer AA rechargeable batteries (producing 2450 mAH).

Thanks DLuders! I decided that the price for such an "antique" was justified and thus I spent a total of $65 on the receiver, remote, and two antennas. I think I will find myself happy with this purchase.. and the fact that they should arrive for winter break!

Another inquiry about part numbers.. Does anybody happen to have the Lego part number for Tyre 68.8 x 36 ZR (44771) or Technic Beam Split 2 x 6 Towball Coupling Half Slope (32195b) (last found in the 2007 599 Fiorano)?

[DLuders]

@ Crtlego: I used Brickfactory.info to find the Parts List below for the 8146 Lego Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano set (which has both of the parts you want). The Lego Element ID (needed for Lego Direct orders) appears next to each item; they don't match the Bricklink numbers (which are generally the numerals embossed into the plastic parts). That set was produced in 2007, so you MAY still be able to get those parts (unless they have sold out).

Bricklink 44771 "Black Tire 68.8 x 36 ZR" --> Lego Element ID 4192535.

Bricklink 32195b "Technic, Steering Arm 6.5 x 2 with Towball Socket Rounded, Chamfered" --> Lego Element ID 4204025.

[KEvron]

I think I will find myself happy with this purchase

the price you paid is comparable to the average bricklink price, so you got a square deal, and i think you will, indeed, be happy with it, once you get used to its bulky, clumsy design. for my money, rf is the way to go for rc racers.

KEvron

[KEvron]

since it's come up, does anyone have information on the performance comparison between lego's rf remote and their ir remote, specifically with regard to range limits? and by "anyone", i mean, of course, DLuders....

KEvron

[DLuders]

From the official Lego Power Functions webpage, Frequently-Asked Question (FAQ) #18 has this answer:

"Under normal conditions reaching distance [of the Power Functions infrared signal] will exceed 10 meters or roughly 33 feet. Bright sunlight, low batteries in the IR Remote Control or blocking of the line of sight all can decrease reaching distance."

I could not find any scientific data about the Lego RC Racers' range, so I took my stock Lego 8675 Outdoor Challenger outside into about 1/4" (1 cm) of snow. I could control it out to AT LEAST 48 yards (144 feet, or 44 meters) before the signal got to be intermittent and the batteries got cold in sub-freezing temperatures. So the Lego RC tranmitter's range is at least 4 times greater than the Lego Power Functions' controller's range.

[KEvron]

yeah, i found the ir info at lego.com. google didn't reveal anything about the rf, but i figured it had the greater range. thanks for the legwork, D.

KEvron

[Crtlego]

@ Crtlego: I used Brickfactory.info to find the Parts List below for the 8146 Lego Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano set (which has both of the parts you want). The Lego Element ID (needed for Lego Direct orders) appears next to each item; they don't match the Bricklink numbers (which are generally the numerals embossed into the plastic parts). That set was produced in 2007, so you MAY still be able to get those parts (unless they have sold out).

Bricklink 44771 "Black Tire 68.8 x 36 ZR" --> Lego Element ID 4192535.

Bricklink 32195b "Technic, Steering Arm 6.5 x 2 with Towball Socket Rounded, Chamfered" --> Lego Element ID 4204025.

Thanks again DLuders!! Not only for the ID numbers but also for pointing out that great website!

I could not find any scientific data about the Lego RC Racers' range, so I took my stock Lego 8675 Outdoor Challenger outside into about 1/4" (1 cm) of snow. I could control it out to AT LEAST 48 yards (144 feet, or 44 meters) before the signal got to be intermittent and the batteries got cold in sub-freezing temperatures. So the Lego RC tranmitter's range is at least 4 times greater than the Lego Power Functions' controller's range.

I wish it was snowing in Washingtion D.C.!! Hopefully my RC stuff will arrive before the snow so I can be ready for any possible winter storms (hopefully one like last year's so that I can miss more school as well!)

[timslegos]

Hopefully my RC stuff will arrive before the snow so I can be ready for any possible winter storms (hopefully one like last year's so that I can miss more school as well!)

I remember that snow storm. My family traveled to DC over vacation and there was a LOT of snow in DC when we went.

tim

[Crtlego]

I remember that snow storm. My family traveled to DC over vacation and there was a LOT of snow in DC when we went.

tim

I remember having nearly a week off from school because of all the snow and ice. It was perfect because it took most of my teachers by surprise and stopped them from giving us too many extra assignments.. meaning more time for LEGO!!!

[Alasdair Ryan]

Snow......school? not here in Scotland it's all gone ,and i am to old for school.

[dhc6twinotter]

CRTlego, I'm not sure if you have purchased your shocks yet, but have you tried pneumatic cylinders for your suspension? I've seen a few people do this on larger mocs.

We haven't had any snow in this part of NC yet. It got close to 70 today.

[Erik Leppen]

One large disadvantage about the large shock absorbers is that they're wider than one stud. The small ones are exactly one stud wide so they are quite easy to fit into your models. The diameter of the large ones is about 1.3 studs so they effectively need at least 2 studs of open room to fit. This can be a drawback, although for offroaders you might have enough room anyway. If you already have other large shock absorbers (8466, 8880, some motorcycles) you can try and fit these and if that fits, go for the stiffer ones.

Also I don't have the idea that the 8110 ones are really that much stiffer than the all-yellow ones from 8466. When compressing them by hand, they feel about the same. The 8110 ones seem to feel a bit smoother but that can also simply be because they are newer.

So maybe you should go for the 8466 ones instead.

---

About the tyres, the width is 5 studs. And I also noticed they can carry a lot of weight. Much more than the huge 8466 offroader tyres, and probably much more than most balloon tyres. I can't really compare as I don't have the 8297 tyres.

[Crtlego]

Thanks for the responses. I called lego to check the price on the extra-stiff suspension again and I have confirmed its expensive price of $3.00.

CRTlego, I'm not sure if you have purchased your shocks yet, but have you tried pneumatic cylinders for your suspension? I've seen a few people do this on larger mocs.

We haven't had any snow in this part of NC yet. It got close to 70 today.

That is certainly an interesting idea.. I only have 4 of the large cylinders so maybe on my next 4x4 I can try that. On that note.. I also happened to ask them the price of the large pneumatic cylinders and they replied saying that they are only available in a "pneumatics package" that costs $25.

One large disadvantage about the large shock absorbers is that they're wider than one stud. The small ones are exactly one stud wide so they are quite easy to fit into your models. The diameter of the large ones is about 1.3 studs so they effectively need at least 2 studs of open room to fit. This can be a drawback, although for offroaders you might have enough room anyway. If you already have other large shock absorbers (8466, 8880, some motorcycles) you can try and fit these and if that fits, go for the stiffer ones.

Also I don't have the idea that the 8110 ones are really that much stiffer than the all-yellow ones from 8466. When compressing them by hand, they feel about the same. The 8110 ones seem to feel a bit smoother but that can also simply be because they are newer.

So maybe you should go for the 8466 ones instead.

---

About the tyres, the width is 5 studs. And I also noticed they can carry a lot of weight. Much more than the huge 8466 offroader tyres, and probably much more than most balloon tyres. I can't really compare as I don't have the 8297 tyres.

I was not aware of this. Thanks for the advice. I think I will wait until prices lower though before I buy either the shock absorbers or the Unimog tires.. which is a shame since they would be so perfect for my upcoming project.