Meatman Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Buy-It-Now $475.00 complete with instructions and stickers. They are crediting the Model to "Skyliner" but it still doesn't seem right. And apparently they don't know what "Gullwing Doors" are. Quote
Blakbird Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Buy-It-Now $475.00 complete with instructions and stickers. They are crediting the Model to "Skyliner" but it still doesn't seem right. The problem is not so much that they are selling a kit of parts, but that they are also selling Skyliner's instructions with it. The instructions are copyright and owned by Skyliner, so the sale is blatantly illegal. Quote
Paul Boratko Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 A week or so ago I sold a set of Tires and Wheels to the person who is selling kits for Skyliner's model... Quote
allanp Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Maybe he has permission and is paying some kind of royalties perhaps? At least I hope so anyway. Quote
Blakbird Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Maybe he has permission and is paying some kind of royalties perhaps? At least I hope so anyway. If so, then everything is fine. I suppose we should not jump to conclusions. Quote
Paul Boratko Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 (edited) If someone contacted me about selling one of my cars as a kit and paying me royalties, I would make damn sure that if they were selling something that had my name on it, that it had the proper information listed with it... Edited October 5, 2011 by Paul Boratko Quote
skyliner Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) The seller bought the instructions from me in august. That same month a number of parts for the countach were brought from from bricklink . I have had no contact from the seller. I presume they are unaware of the lego community. They do not have permission to sell on the countach instructions. I will contact them. i have found another seller in france, here: ebay skyliner Edited October 6, 2011 by skyliner Quote
JunkstyleGio Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Not paying royalties and giving credit to the original builder is so bad. I guess we will be seeing much more of these stealing-b**terds... And that is a shame. Quote
Burf2000 Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 You see a lot of this now on ebay, so many people selling instructions and models that are not theirs. Has anyone reported the item? Quote
AussieJimbo Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) The instructions are copyright and owned by Skyliner, so the sale is blatantly illegal. IANAL but I'd want more information about the specific terms under which the instructions were sold and how many were sold to the first seller before I passed final judgement on this. You can legitimately sell a PS3 game you have purchased, or a music CD, or a book, etc. These are copyrighted works but it's entirely reasonable for you to onsell your legitimate copy of these works. (Unless you have entered into a legal agreement not to do so). As such, if the first seller has purchased two copies of the instructions and is then reselling them along with the required pieces then I'm not sure there is a problem with it (unless specific agreement to the contrary). If he's only bought one set of instructions but is selling two, then there is a clear copyright infringement on the second set. The second seller does not mention if they are selling the instructions but appears to be selling only one copy of the model. Unless there was a specific agreement that the purchaser of the instructions was not permitted to sell the assembled results then I don't see how sale is illegal. Would have been nice if seller two mentioned the source of the design but I don't believe that is a breach of the law. Skyliner, I recognise and sympathise with the frustration you might feel about this. I make these comments respectfully and hope you could clarify some of the details. It might be useful for others who want to sell their instructions in the future. :classic: Edited October 6, 2011 by AussieJimbo Quote
skyliner Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) i sell my instructions on the request they are not copied or sold, simply used to build the design. I am happy the countach is being built and displayed by others, i encourage this, i am happy for them to sell the built model, if they wish. I would appreciate a mention, What they should not do is resell the instructions. If my design is sold in kit form in multiples, this should also be questioned. This has been debated before. I myself after i returned to lego building was not aware of the lego community, i used pictures found on bricklink. Early on i built others designs.It was not until i joined this forum that i realised that Lego is a passion, and designers love to display their ideas, and wish to inspire others to build. What they don't want is a direct copy of their work marketed for profit on ebay. It will happen, it is happening, not just with technic but with lego modular buildings and starwars ships, it is more a moral issue than a legal one. I no longer build others' designs other than for my own use. Is the seller selling 2 copies or are more in the pipeline? this remains to be seen. All the best Edited November 2, 2011 by skyliner Quote
Yucca Patrol Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Skyliner, I'm sorry this has happened, but it is nice to see that you have a pretty good outlook on it. As any sort of legal battle would be cost prohibitive, perhaps the best thing to do is let the sellers know that they are selling your design, hope that they compensate you somehow, but in the end, the best thing to do is simply be flattered that someone thinks your design is this awesome (and it is). Quote
allanp Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Just to clarify, is the seller making and selling copies of your instructions, or is he selling copies bought dirctly from you? Maybe my morals are a bit screwed up, but in all honesty i'm not that clear on what the problem is if he is only selling copies that he bought directly from you. Isn't it just like selling a car second hand? Quote
timslegos Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Just to clarify, is the seller making and selling copies of your instructions, or is he selling copies bought dirctly from you? Maybe my morals are a bit screwed up, but in all honesty i'm not that clear on what the problem is if he is only selling copies that he bought directly from you. Isn't it just like selling a car second hand? I kind of agree with you. Its not like he is selling instructions on the internet for profit. But i can understand how Skyliner should still get some note that the instructions are his. tim Quote
allanp Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 It would sure be appropiate to give the proper credit for the design. Quote
Lucas Posted October 7, 2011 Posted October 7, 2011 Just to clarify, is the seller making and selling copies of your instructions, or is he selling copies bought dirctly from you? Maybe my morals are a bit screwed up, but in all honesty i'm not that clear on what the problem is if he is only selling copies that he bought directly from you. Isn't it just like selling a car second hand? There is big difference. Car is a merchandise (physical product) - it's value is in physical object. This object is selled and owned by car users. No one else can use the same car. And it can be resell as object. Instructions are intelectual product and they are owned by author. They don't have physical atributes (PDF file is just a carrier). The author isn't selling instructions itself but he is selling licence to use it (instructions are still his property). Licence can be restricted to timeframe and geografical area, can be exclusive or non-exclusive and it can (or not) include right to reselling (this right must be mentioned to apply, otherwise it is considered prohibited). So if instructions was sold without right to reselling, no one can do that. Selling model built with instructions (without instructions) is ok. Quote
skyliner Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Buy-It-Now $475.00 complete with instructions and stickers. They are crediting the Model to "Skyliner" but it still doesn't seem right. And apparently they don't know what "Gullwing Doors" are. 2nd model now up for sale, will more follow? no contact from seller as yet. Quote
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