Does anyone know what is going on with crowkillers? Very Odd messege p

[TechnicJuan]

I just noticed that this was posted at his site. Does anyone know what the heck this is all about?

ATTENTION-* Someone is buying up all of the parts at Bricklink that are required to build my Lamborghini Gallardo. If you see anyone selling kits or sets and that person is NOT ME, please Contact me As Soon As Possible! I am not putting instructions and pictures out there for Free so that People can Steal my Work to profit from it! Thank You.

How could he possibly know this?

[JunkstyleGio]

It's not that strange. You can get stats on parts at bricklink. So he probably had essential parts used and found out that there is an increase in sales on those parts.

But if anyone is trying to make a profit this way by selling complete sets that is certainly disturbing.

Edited October 9, 2010 by JunkstyleGio

[Anio]

Few minutes ago, on TB's, here is what I wrote about the contests of TLG :

"All applicants have to be fair-play about that, but we all know that is not realistic. It is obvious that some people are greedy when there is a way to get a 160$ set for free."

So, this problem with Crowkiller's Gallardo is yet another example of what I said.

Money, money, money...

Pathetic.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Anio

[dolittle]

Not that I am doing this, but why is this a "problem"?

It is one thing to sell sets/kits that build X and another thing to sell the instructions.

If they are selling the instructions then its illegal and "malicious".

If they are selling a kit that has all the parts for a set of instructions, then I can't see anything wrong with it, its a free market, Crowkillers can do the same if they want.

I know it sucks, but this is the nature of the Internet and free market.

[Anio]

Not that I am doing this, but why is this a "problem"?

The problem is that this person make money with someone else work (and also may prevent Crowkiller to make is own kits and to sell is own work !).

That's not fair.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Anio

[Rijkvv]

Crowkillers has shared the instructions for free. Maybe that someone only buys the parts to make his own copy, but if he sells the kit, he makes money with Crowkillers' work. That is not only unfair, but can prevent Crowkillers (and others) from sharing instructions for free in the future.

[dolittle]

The problem is that this person make money with someone else work (and also may prevent Crowkiller to make is own kits and to sell is own work !).

That's not fair.

Hi Anio,

I agree its not fair, but the only thing Crowkiller can do is put a copyright on his work, instructions, photos, etc

And then send Bricklink notices to people selling off his copyrighted material (if that is even happening), otherwise it is a free world, and unfair world, and people exploit and use other people's work to get money.

I feel bad, as I think it is unfair, as much as you do, but the only thing Crowkiller can do, is stop publishing instructions - which is bad for me and you - and it will prevent others from exploiting his work.

An alternative would be of course to sue the sellers for giving his stuff without permissions - unlikely to happen...

[allanp]

I get the feeling that some people saw his designs from photos, liked what they saw and went to bricklink to buy the parts needed to build it from the photos as you don't really need the instructions. It's just like any other lego set, if you have, or can get the parts then there are plenty of pics available on the net to build it without buying a kit. You can build a set (or something similar but just as good if not better) that's not been released yet just from the preliminary pics. I'm not sure how anyone could prevent this unless the model required some parts that are new or unique to the kit (like 8880 for example).

It would be interesting to know if the people buying the parts from bricklink are many people (suggesting what I said above is accurate) or if they are primarily only being bought by one person (suggesting Crowkillers fears are well founded). In anycase i'm not sure of the legalities pertaining to the copyright (if any) of how a product is used (in this case the design of how TLGs own copyright protected parts are put together). Technically, as soon as you design something, you own the copyright (proving it may require the copyright symbol or some kind of documentation and so on). So does this mean that as soon as I post pictures of one of my MOCs then you have to ask my permission before you build one the same? Personally I don't think so. However, if the issue is to do with the copying and selling of the instructions, then can you copyright something that contains the copyrighted parts of TLG?

I know this situation sucks for somebody that has put alot of time and effort in his design, but I never understood how he could have prevented this. I'm not saying it's his fault and it is bitterly unfair, but he has left himself open to this.

[Erik Leppen]

Collecting all the parts to build a specific MOC and combining them into single packages for that specific MOC, can also be seen as a labor-intensive process to help the people wanting to build the MOC getting their parts in a simple way. If you look at it this way, I don't particularly see much wrong with it. As long as the original designer of the MOC is credited, I might even consider this a good thing for people wanting to build it. Those people can then just buy such a parts package much like a set with no instructions, and use the instructions to build the model. That the person organizing the parts makes a bit of profit doing so, isn't even that far-fetched of a thought. After all, he's dealing with lots of worldwide cash transfers.

But I might be wrong of course. It might be someone trying to rip off other people's work. But I'm not going to assume people have bad intentions if there's no reason to believe that.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Erik Leppen

[TechnicJuan]

I think the issue at hand here may be the fact that Paul does in fact put his own kits together and provides them to the Community, so now if someone else is doing this, they are sort of stepping on Paul's toes. Especially if they don't contact him and let him know what their intentions are. I did check out parts that have been sold at bricklink against the parts list with his instructions and I must say that almost all of the parts for his model have in fact been bought in heavy quantity last month and this month.

[DLuders]

Yes, "Crowkillers" puts his own kits together and sells them on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Custom-Lego-Technic-Lamborghini-Gallardo-Kit-/270646154513?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f03c49511 .

If some of the ~1,500 parts needed for this MOC are rare, why doesn't everybody just get them from "Lego Direct"? That way, the supply of available parts increases and the prices stay low for everybody ("Supply and Demand"). It's a "Win-Win" situation -- TLG gets to sell its parts, and Crowkillers and the mysterious Bricklink buyers get their parts. I've built the Lamborghini Gallardo set, and I don't recall many parts that have not been manufactured in official Lego sets in the past 3 years.

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Hmmm, this story sounds very familiar... I've recently experienced something very similar.

Just as Crowkillers, I provide the instructions for my models for free, I want them to be available to everybody. But a couple of weeks ago, I got an email of someone who had just bought the instructions for my Little Devil sportscar from eBay. Contact & copyright info was in the instructions, so that's how he found me. He asked if I had given permission to somebody to sell my instructions, to which I answered: "No, they are supposed to be Free of charge". He also sent me the link the advert, in which there was no refference to the maker of the model & instructions (me). I reported the advert as illegal, contacted the seller and the other buyer of the instructions (2 were sold already). Then the seller returned the money to the 2 buyers and removed his ad, so everything turned out well.

So I guess there's nothing we can do about the fact that some people taking advantage from other people's hard work. But it sucks bigtime !! However, it will not stop me from making new instructions and providing them for free. And I hope Crowkillers will do the same.

[TechnicJuan]

Jurgen, do you have a link for the auction where someone sold your instructions? I was browsing through completed listings and couldn't find anything.

On s side note, looks like someone REALLY got burned on this.

8653 Enzo instructions

Someone isn't going to be happy when they receive their item in the mail.

[Milan]

On s side note, looks like someone REALLY got burned on this.

8653 Enzo instructions

Someone isn't going to be happy when they receive their item in the mail.

This is something!!!

I can't believe it.

[dolittle]

This is something!!!

I can't believe it.

For instructions?

Wow!

[TechnicJuan]

Obviously someone thought that they were bidding on the actual set. The seller even stated that it was for the manual only. Another 8653 Instruction book had just previously sold for $15

How Crazy is this?

I guess some people have never heard of bricklink.

Edited October 9, 2010 by TechnicJuan

[dolittle]

Not all eBay bids are this bad...

Look at this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEGO-TECHNIC-GEARS-SHOCKS-STEERING-ENGINE-PARTS_W0QQitemZ120628534577

It is a nice "kit" for a currently low price, you just need to be careful to not over bid :)

Thanks,

Noam

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

Jurgen, do you have a link for the auction where someone sold your instructions? I was browsing through completed listings and couldn't find anything.

On s side note, looks like someone REALLY got burned on this.

8653 Enzo instructions

Someone isn't going to be happy when they receive their item in the mail.

Here is the link to the ad. I even know the name & email-adress is the seller. Why do you wanna know if I may ask ?

[TechnicJuan]

I was just wondering if it was a shady seller or what his story was. So you contacted him then? It amazes me that people will try and sell something that is offered for free.

[rgbrown]

Not that I am doing this, but why is this a "problem"?

It is one thing to sell sets/kits that build X and another thing to sell the instructions.

If they are selling the instructions then its illegal and "malicious".

If they are selling a kit that has all the parts for a set of instructions, then I can't see anything wrong with it, its a free market, Crowkillers can do the same if they want.

I know it sucks, but this is the nature of the Internet and free market.

Crowkillers/Blakbird have copyright over the instructions. They could/should have been more explicit about what constitutes fair use of the instructions (building a MOC for private use). But as soon as the sellers of the bundle of parts makes reference to the Gallardo instructions, be it by bundling them into a kit, or by providing a link to them, they're commercially exploiting Crowkillers/Blakbird's work without permission and hence, I think, violating copyright.

[Jurgen Krooshoop]

I was just wondering if it was a shady seller or what his story was. So you contacted him then? It amazes me that people will try and sell something that is offered for free.

Well, I tried contacting him directly, but he didn't reply to my messages. One of the buyers told me he got his money back.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Jurgen Krooshoop

[roamingstop]

Well, I tried contacting him directly, but he didn't reply to my messages. One of the buyers told me he got his money back.

Ebay tells me the item was relisted - and sold - under ebay.nl

[Jetro]

Sad thing is there appears to be no option to mark an offer as a scam or report it for bad practise.

[dolittle]

Sad thing is there appears to be no option to mark an offer as a scam or report it for bad practise.

From experience (not related to LEGO) you need to go here:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/vero-rights-owner.html

And follow the steps listed there, there are several options, one of them is to claim copyright on things you did/create:

"If you have a good faith belief that a listing on eBay infringes your copyright, trademark, or other intellectual property rights, all you need to do is fill out our Notice of Claimed Infringement (NOCI) form, print it out, and fax it to eBay. Open eBay's NOCI form."

Thanks,

Noam

[Blakbird]

In my experience, this is a waste of time. I made instructions for Grazi's 5000 part tow truck and posted them for free on Bricklink, then I found people on eBay selling them for $30. My name (and Grazi's) are on the instructions. I contacted eBay and filled out all the right forms, but they didn't really seem to care and nothing even happened. As far as I know, this guy is still selling my work.