Licensed Battle Packs VS. Castle & Pirates ones

[Oky]

As lego40k pointed out in the Toy Story thread, Star Wars battle packs cost around $10-11, and so do the unofficial BPs such as the Toy Story Army Men set or Indy's Ambush in Cairo or PoP's Hassasin Hideout, and include 4-5 figs and a vehicle, whereas the Castle and Pirates BPs include 5 figs with some accessories, but no vehicle, and cost $15. This is rather surprising since licensed Lego is usually more expensive than normal Lego. It becomes even more puzzling when you consider that the figs in the Castle and Pirate BPs are made out of a cheaper plastic.

So, what's up with that?

Edited October 11, 2009 by Oky Wan Kenobi

[Peppermint_M]

Yes it is quite vexing isn't it?

In Legoland they had them all on shelves and the price vs contents was a clear win in the licensed sets favour.

Maybe it is because the battlepacks for star wars are an easier sell than the castle ones?

[prateek]

Dont the Castle/Pirates BPs come in plasctic, whereas the licensed ones come in cardboard boxes?

[Oky]

Maybe it is because the battlepacks for star wars are an easier sell than the castle ones?

Perhaps, perhaps...

Dont the Castle/Pirates BPs come in plasctic, whereas the licensed ones come in cardboard boxes?

Yes, but can that really make a $4+ price difference?

[mikey]

A subject unfortunately close to my heart. I am disgusted at what Lego has done with the Castle Packs. I will not waste my money to get an inferior product, I would prefer to have less quantity, but a better quality. I am thankfull for this site in warning me of the inferior product that certain 'Merchandise' contains!

Maybe it is because the battlepacks for star wars are an easier sell than the castle ones?

Not surprising because the Star Wars Packs contain Real MiniFig's, the Castle Packs contain some kind of Fake MiniFig! I don't collect Star Wars, but if I had to buy a Battle Pack I would buy a Star Wars one over some cheap imitation Orc/ Dwarf Minifigs!

But saying that, you might think they would price the Orc Battle Pack cheaper than a Star Wars one to try to gain sales.

Dont the Castle/Pirates BPs come in plasctic, whereas the licensed ones come in cardboard boxes?

I got your quote the wrong way round (a reason for my edit!). True, maybe the plastic packaging could add a production cost. But considering they are using a Poor Quality Product within the packaging, this makes no sense!

Really the whole Product Concept is a mess. More expensive (MiniFig for MiniFig) than a Licensed Set (which will also contain a handfull of bricks!), but with a Inferior Quality Product!

Not that the packaging really matters, what is important is contained within. And the pre-assembled MiniFig's are inferior. I understand that Lego are aware of this, and are taking steps to recitfy the mess that they have got themselves into. Lets hope they are true to there word, and get there production issues sorted ASAP!

Edited October 10, 2009 by mikey

[Forresto]

It is pretty unsettling to me that they are trying to pass up these castle/pirate battle packs as good deals. I mean the big leg up lego has always had over *

megablocks

is that Lego is a better quality.

*I dare not speak it's name

[simonjedi]

Castle has a lot ,more printed/chrome parts than the star wars battlepacks so thats bound to increase the prices quite a bit.

Also i've never read the battle pack figures are of lower quality than normal figures before, i do know the chess set versions are, but that's because the figs are not intended for army building.

[ziljin]

well whether they increase the quality or not, people will still buy the castle battlepacks.

And the pirates battle pack has 4 minifigs, and a monkey(guess its the 5th minifig?). Only 2 weapons iirc. And a treasure chest. No review so far, so I don't know if they improved the quality for that battlepack. But assuming you don't mind the lower quality torsos (as far as I can tell, only the torsos are lower quality), the tic tac toe set is the better deal. If that pirates chess set ever comes out, that will be the tictactoe + battlepack combined basically.

I hope the battlepacks aren't expensive because of something lame like the plastic vs cardboard packaging (i would much prefer the cardboard), or presassembled vs non assembled (also would prefer assembling them myself, they put the brown beards on wrong for every dwarf battle pack!, annoying to remove imo). If so, some lego ambassador should tell Lego to go back to cardboard boxes, and unassembled minifigs.

EDIT: For those unaware, the thread I found out about the lower quality torsos at Classic Castle and Pirates section

Edited October 10, 2009 by lego40k

[ILikePi]

Don't forget about Ambush in Cairo and the upcoming Prince of Persia "battle pack."

I don't really get it, though. The licensed ones do come with a model and the minfigures themselves, while the non-licensed "battle packs" come only with lower quality minifigures and accessories for about $4 USD more.

[Blondie-Wan]

Wait, what's this about torsos (or any other parts) being of lower quality in the Pirate / Castle battlepacks? I thought they all came off the same production lines as each other. Are the battlepack knights, pirates, etc. more like those quasi-minifigs in the LEGO licensed pen sets, or what?

That said, I think the simple fact those battlepacks do include more minifigures accounts for the difference. Five minifigures are simply typically going to be more expensive than four, sometimes even if the four-pack has some additional regular bricks on the side. Minifigures are made of articulated, multi-piece parts, many of which are printed, and we know LEGO doesn't consider printing a trivial expense these days.

And that said, the thing I've been wondering about most is the 8401 City Minifigure Collection. It's a perfectly nice little set, and not really "bad" on value, but it does strike me that one actually gets a more substantial set with the typical licensed battlepacks and comparable licensed sets like Ambush in Cairo. 8401 has four minifigures broadly applicable to the Town / City theme - figures whose elements can be reused again and again for years on end, which have no associated license costs, etc. - and just a tiny handful of additional parts besides, with which to assemble a number of small, street sign-style "accessory"-like items, whereas the Star Wars battlepacks, say, actually have much more substantial whole little vehicles and so on, with more and larger pieces.

No, I haven't noticed any "quality difference" in the 8401 minifigures; I do just think the set offers less building potential than the comparably-priced Star Wars sets, and I don't know why this should be.

[ILikePi]

Wait, what's this about torsos (or any other parts) being of lower quality in the Pirate / Castle battlepacks? I thought they all came off the same production lines as each other. Are the battlepack knights, pirates, etc. more like those quasi-minifigs in the LEGO licensed pen sets, or what?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wunztwice/3812781149/

[simonjedi]

That's not really answered his question.

All the low quality mini fig complaints I have seen is for sets (Tic tac toe, chess sets, magnet sets) that are not really intended to be used for Army building/MOCs/whatever. Can some one link me to a thread with complaints for ACTUAL sets instead of promotionals.

On the UK S@H Castle Battle packs are £8.79 while the Clone BP is £9.79, which makes this thread rather pointless for UK members

[ziljin]

Castle Battle Packs are meant for army building. Here is your complaint right here at Classic Castle.

And this pic is from that topic

[Blondie-Wan]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wunztwice/3812781149/

Ah, hm. Thanks for that. To be honest, I don't know if I'd have characterized that as the huge difference in quality many others are doing, but I do notice the difference. I think it's something more subtle than some characterize it as being, but more perfect consistency would be desirable, and I certainly don't want these things to become huge problems with time.

Castle Battle Packs are meant for army building. Here is your complaint right here at Classic Castle.

And this pic is from that topic

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing here; I see only differences in the helmet color and the prints, not quality issues with the plastic. Are the torso prints really the issue? I'd have thought that was intentional, desirable variation.

The plastic quality is the main concern of mine, but differences in the molds honestly don't concern me, unless it affects functionality (clutch power in construction, movement of posable parts like minifig arms and hands, etc.). The tiny rectangular engraved cutouts on the insides of the arms don't strike me as being any kind of "quality" issue, only one of the many slight variations LEGO has introduced into its parts over the years (like the various other engraving differences one might see on the interiors / undersides of bricks, or whether the pins in the bottoms of 1-wide bricks might or might not be hollowed out) - I just don't see an issue with stuff like that. I do very much want bricks to fit together properly, though, and to last for decades, and it'd be nice if opaque elements were all indeed opaque.

Edited October 11, 2009 by Blondie-Wan

[ziljin]

Let say, that the set minfigs have always been 1st edition, and the promotional minfigs have been second edition. Now second edition minfigs have appeared in the most recent castle battlepacks. It makes one wonder, what if Lego intends on including second edition minifigs in other sets too? I think that's one of the things that bother people about the battlepacks with the different torsos.

[Front]

Let say, that the set minfigs have always been 1st edition, and the promotional minfigs have been second edition. Now second edition minfigs have appeared in the most recent castle battlepacks. It makes one wonder, what if Lego intends on including second edition minifigs in other sets too? I think that's one of the things that bother people about the battlepacks with the different torsos.

There is no 1st and 2nd edition of anything. There is good and bad plastic quality, quality regarding colour appearence.

I've bought sets where the half of some elements are in nice quality and the other half is of bad quality (gold 2x1 jumper pieces translucency).

That does not mean there is 1st edition and 2nd edition sets. It just means that colour accuracy and translucency is not where Lego scores flawless at the moment.

[ziljin]

The purposely made the torsos for tic tac toe, chess, and other promotional sets not the same quality as the ones that appear in the original sets. Not officially second edition minifigs, but you can treat them as such. If you want, you can replace the word second edition with lower quality, different mold, non standard ,etc. The point is, its of a quality that some customers do not approve of appearing in regular sets. I have a space minifig pack, the Blacktron II minfig it came with is the duplicate of the Blacktron II minifig that came with my Blacktron II sets. I can't say the same about my Trolls from the sets and battle packs. I personally don't mind to much because its a cheaper source of troll minifigs, but I definitely can see why some people would refuse to touch the Troll/Dwarf battlepacks.

[Front]

I opened a troll battle pack and compared to a random troll. In the light I view them in (artificial), colour appearence was slightly different (sand green), probably way inside tolerances.

Shine of head, slight difference, result of mould cavity differences. Brown colour looked very equal.

Arm mould is different, the one in the battle pack has cavity no. inside, as all moulds should have.

No print on neck in Battle pack troll, but I don't judge quality on useless prints.

What about dark red in cafe corner ? Is the colour quality a result of 1st and 2nd edition ?

[prateek]

I opened a troll battle pack and compared to a random troll. In the light I view them in (artificial), colour appearence was slightly different (sand green), probably way inside tolerances.

Shine of head, slight difference, result of mould cavity differences. Brown colour looked very equal.

Arm mould is different, the one in the battle pack has cavity no. inside, as all moulds should have.

No print on neck in Battle pack troll, but I don't judge quality on useless prints.

What about dark red in cafe corner ? Is the colour quality a result of 1st and 2nd edition ?

So is there any difference in hold? And I thought you said there were no 'editions'