Minifigures never die!

[Shoc]

I love reading fiction stories, and writing my own, so I always have an interest in the storylines of Lego themes...

But one thing I've noticed is that (apart from Licensed themes), minifigs (or their animal counterparts) never die in the storylines. Even a lot of the already dead ones, like mummies and skeletons, come back to life to fight adventurers and knights! Not even Ogel died, in the end.

Why is this, and what do you think of this? Are there actually any exceptions? Is it because of the no violence policy?

:skull:

Edited February 28, 2009 by Shoc

[Dadster]

I wish they'd bring Ogel back in the new Agents line...

[Shoc]

I wish they'd bring Ogel back in the new Agents line...

Well, he is already the evil wizard leader of the skeleton army in the newer Castle sets, albeit with a beard.

:skull:

[Eilif]

I love reading fiction stories, and writing my own, so I always have an interest in the storylines of Lego themes...

But one thing I've noticed is that (apart from Licensed themes), minifigs (or their animal counterparts) never die in the storylines. Even a lot of the already dead ones, like mummies and skeletons, come back to life to fight adventurers and knights! Not even Ogel died, in the end.

Why is this, and what do you think of this? Are there actually any exceptions? Is it because of the no violence policy?

:skull:

As you guessed, it is the no violence policy. Mike Rayhawk, who has done some of the artwork for LEGO comics, cards talks a bit about that in his website. Here's one mention http://www.mikerayhawk.com/2004_playset.htm but there are a few others throughout his site.

Apparently, in most cases, TLG productions won't show the death of "people" or even good guys hitting bad guys.

[Shoc]

Ahah, Eilif, thanks for the information. You're like an encyclopaedia on obscure Lego facts!

I did wonder if it was the no violence policy. I still think there might have been deaths in the Bionicle storylines though...

:skull:

[Eilif]

Ahah, Eilif, thanks for the information. You're like an encyclopaedia on obscure Lego facts!

I did wonder if it was the no violence policy. I still think there might have been deaths in the Bionicle storylines though...

Thanks, I'm happy to help. I wondered about the bionicle storylines too. I'm not very knowlegable about Bionicle, though, so someone else will have to answer that one. If there are bionicle deaths wouldn't be surprised if TLG justifies it as not being the death of "people".

[Asuka]

As you guessed, it is the no violence policy. Mike Rayhawk, who has done some of the artwork for LEGO comics, cards talks a bit about that in his website. Here's one mention http://www.mikerayhawk.com/2004_playset.htm but there are a few others throughout his site.

Thanks for that very interesting link, Eilif.

Especially the part of that quote of him that I´ve highlighted sounds pretty, um... eerie:

The trickiest part about ending this story is that the heroes aren't allowed to use violence. Sure, there's plenty of violence implied, but as far as what we can actually show, they're limited to parrying evil blows or running into badguys to knock them over. To have the big victory over Vladek at the end, we had to cheat - Jayko doesn't attack Vladek directly but instead reflects his evil magic. That way, the badguys are still the source of the violent attack.

The lightning bolts were originally a dodge to let us avoid having swordfighting altogether - whacking each other with swords was too violent, so we weaseled out of it and decided that they shoot lightning bolts at each other instead. This is still how combat works in the Game Boy video game, from what I understand. However, for the comics we had to tone it down even from there, since we were worried about what the Bible Belt would think about heroes using magical powers and casting spells. That's right: our hands are tied in ways you never even thought of.

I mean, seriously... TLC´s designing their sets in preemptive obedience to the Bible Belt..? Well, maybe that´s meant more allegoric, but if this means indeed

that special U.S. home region of Protestant fundamentalism it would almost make me wish that America would never´ve got discovered (LEGO-wise) at all...

However, I guess the situation´s much more relaxed nowadays, at least when I think of all that great humor that´s coming along with all these new Castle, Agents

and SP III sets... by far too hilarious for the ordinary WASP type of guy I would think...

Edited February 28, 2009 by Asuka

[Brickthing]

Thanks, I'm happy to help. I wondered about the bionicle storylines too. I'm not very knowlegable about Bionicle, though, so someone else will have to answer that one. If there are bionicle deaths wouldn't be surprised if TLG justifies it as not being the death of "people".

Ah, I think I can chat a bit about BIONICLE.

In BIONICLE, there is more violence than other themes, but as with other themes, pretty much all the violence shown visually either uses fantasy elements, is implied, or is done against non-humanoid creatures.

The BIONICLE sets are equipped with many different kinds of weapons, anything ranging from swords to spears to giant claws or talons, but they use their weapons to shoot blasts of elements like fire or air, and never to directly hit the enemy.

Even the projectile weapons aren't that violent. The recent sets have almost all got some kind of ball shooting gimmick (which hurts if you shoot it in the face ), but in the story, the balls are quite non-real. In 2006, the balls contained gases that either enslaved or cured the local people to the bad guys, as opposed to physically hurting them. In the underwater setting of 2007, the balls hurt the bad guys by being pressurised air bubbles. In 2008 the balls hurt the bad guys ruled by shadows by being pressurised light.

The main deaths in BIONICLE have either been implied, or caused by a noble action. In 2007, one of the main characters dies sacrificing is life to bring the universe back to life.

Finally, one thing that's worth pointing out is that there is more violence in the books and online serials, with more characters dying, more violent battles and darker themes. However, this is probably because the stories are aimed at older kids, and nothing is visually shown. In the animations of BIONICLE, the characters just fly or run around the place and shoot each other with those fantasy balls, not anything really violent.

[Norro]

It's to facilitate head recycling...

God Bless,

Nathan

[Athos]

Short of having a printed grave stone, saying "here lies so-and-so," I'm not sure how they'd convey that a character has died. And since many of the original themes had no character names, I'm not sure how you'd convey it...

Steve

[ShaddowCroc]

Continuing on what 3D Brickthing said, in most of the recent BIONICLE media, there are gratuitous deaths. In 2008 alone, about fifty characters (Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit.) were killed off for no reason. Some were obscure characters, and a few were the stars as part of their respective year. Hell, six of the twelve main "Canister set" characters were killed off, and another four set characters died, too. BIONICLE is really into the whole deaths and things. It's sorta cool, really. But it's probably because BIONICLE story (Not the sets.) are aimed toward teens.

[Oky]

Well, of course TLC doesn't actually talk about death in their stories. Death is a very, very serious thing, and that's the last thing TLC would want to incorporate into their fun-oriented themes.

However, they do imply it by including weapons etc. to make stories more exciting. TLC's stories are only guidelines to inspire the kids. The rest is left to the imagination of the player. If you want death, you can have it by pretending a minifig to get shot, burned, drowned, or cut. If you don't want it, you can pretend that they only get wounded.

minifigs (or their animal counterparts) never die

Isn't a roasted turkey a dead turkey?

Short of having a printed grave stone, saying "here lies so-and-so," I'm not sure how they'd convey that a character has died. And since many of the original themes had no character names, I'm not sure how you'd convey it...

That's also true.

Well, he is already the evil wizard leader of the skeleton army in the newer Castle sets, albeit with a beard.

Hey, that actually makes sense!

In order to escape the Alpha team, he hopped into his evil time machine and traveled to the medieval times. There, he grew a beard, took on the new identity of a wizzard, and continued trying to take over the world with his evil skeleton minions (who now don't wear there "futuristic" cloths anymore to fit into the time)! And with his knowledge about electricity, he could make the knights believe that his staff shoots "magical" lightning!

Hehe, fiction is fun.

[Shoc]

I mean, seriously... TLC´s designing their sets in preemptive obedience to the Bible Belt..?

Yeah, that's really weird. There's certainly a lot of Lego sets which may cause offense to other religions, and we've had a lot of wizarding sets, particularily Harry Potter...

The main deaths in BIONICLE have either been implied, or caused by a noble action. In 2007, one of the main characters dies sacrificing is life to bring the universe back to life...

Finally, one thing that's worth pointing out is that there is more violence in the books and online serials, with more characters dying, more violent battles and darker themes. However, this is probably because the stories are aimed at older kids, and nothing is visually shown.

BIONICLE is really into the whole deaths and things. It's sorta cool, really. But it's probably because BIONICLE story (Not the sets.) are aimed toward teens.

I suppose it is because of the older age aiming that Bionicle allows deaths in the storyline. After all, we all understand death by the time we're teenagers.

Well, of course TLC doesn't actually talk about death in their stories. Death is a very, very serious thing, and that's the last thing TLC would want to incorporate into their fun-oriented themes.

However, they do imply it by including weapons etc. to make stories more exciting.

That makes sense. Death does not equal fun.

Isn't a roasted turkey a dead turkey?

Just as much as a skeleton minifigure is a dead person. I'm talking about deaths that happen in the storyline (but you knew that).

Hey, that actually makes sense!

In order to escape the Alpha team, he hopped into his evil time machine and traveled to the medieval times. There, he grew a beard, took on the new identity of a wizzard, and continued trying to take over the world with his evil skeleton minions (who now don't wear there "futuristic" cloths anymore to fit into the time)! And with his knowledge about electricity, he could make the knights believe that his staff shoots "magical" lightning!

Hehe, fiction is fun.

That's my theory too! The parallels between Ogel and the wizard are spooky! They look the same, they have skeleton soldiers, they shoot zappy things, and they both have skull-shaped castles! It must be the same guy...

:skull:

[Dadster]

Well, he is already the evil wizard leader of the skeleton army in the newer Castle sets, albeit with a beard.

:skull:

Yeah - but that just proves that he's found a way to keep himself alive throughout the centuries and needs to battle the Agents as Ogel!!

Okay - I swear I didn't read the above posts before making the travels through time argument myself.

Just great, creative thinking on all parties behalf!

Edited March 2, 2009 by Dadster

[Brickthing]

To add to this Ogel theory, I think it seems more appropriate that as Ogel's fourth scheme to take over the world and get rid of the Alpha team was to make an evil time machine and teleport to the past, change the future so that the Alpha team doesn't exist and the world is populated only by skeletons, then go back to the future and become leader of the world! Unfortunately, the Knights of the local Castle theme region foiled his plot by breaking his time machine and subduing his army. Now, trapped in the past, Ogel has given into his fate, and now spends his days as a crazed old magician who pesters the Knights from time to time with the odd skeleton attack.

Meanwhile, in the future, Ogel's tempering with time has meant that there is no Alpha Team, but there are the Agents instead. With Ogel's lack of presence in the future, Dr. Inferno has stepped in to fill the role of the evil villain faction. On a slightly unrelated note, Ogel's interference also caused a portal wormhole to open up in the middle of the earth, allowing the Power Miner rock monsters to come from the Rock Raider planet to start eating crystals here as well.

[Shoc]

3D Brickthing, I think you've figured it all out! Hehe.

I nearly made a topic about my Ogel theory, before. Now it seems we're getting it in this topic anyway.

:skull:

[Natman8000]

Ogel would make a good villain in agents. He'd have to get a modern make over though, his armor would look sweet modernized.

[Oky]

To add to this Ogel theory, I think it seems more appropriate that as Ogel's fourth scheme to take over the world and get rid of the Alpha team was to make an evil time machine and teleport to the past, change the future so that the Alpha team doesn't exist and the world is populated only by skeletons, then go back to the future and become leader of the world! Unfortunately, the Knights of the local Castle theme region foiled his plot by breaking his time machine and subduing his army. Now, trapped in the past, Ogel has given into his fate, and now spends his days as a crazed old magician who pesters the Knights from time to time with the odd skeleton attack.

Meanwhile, in the future, Ogel's tempering with time has meant that there is no Alpha Team, but there are the Agents instead. With Ogel's lack of presence in the future, Dr. Inferno has stepped in to fill the role of the evil villain faction.

That makes even more sense! Yes, I think that must be it.

But how do we explain his skeleton minions fighting Star Justice in space? Perhaps, when Ogel used the time machine, some of his minions got accidentally sent into the future instead of the past?

Yeah - but that just proves that he's found a way to keep himself alive throughout the centuries and needs to battle the Agents as Ogel!!

That's also an interesting theory! But I think I'll still go with Brickthing's theory.

[Shoc]

But how do we explain his skeleton minions fighting Star Justice in space? Perhaps, when Ogel used the time machine, some of his minions got accidentally sent into the future instead of the past?

Maybe... I wonder how many skeletons he took with him in that time machine. It must have been a lot. Either that, or he just brought a few along and the others multiplied (and mutated into the Castle skellies)!

Ah, this off-topic theory is inspiring me now...

:skull:

Edited March 3, 2009 by Shoc

[Dadster]

Maybe... I wonder how many skeletons he took with him in that time machine. It must have been a lot. Either that, or he just brought a few along and the others multiplied (and mutated into the Castle skellies)!

Ah, this off-topic theory is inspiring me now...

:skull:

Skeletons are all over the place. Its the unique machinery and weapons that Ogel uses to draw forth new skeletons from whenever he happens to be.

[Lordofdragonss]

I wonder what happend to paradisa? Maybe Ogel firts base was build there? I think Inferno is Ogels son. He trying to get "papa" back, and rebuild a time travel machine.

[Oky]

I wonder what happend to paradisa? Maybe Ogel firts base was built there?

Huh? What do you mean?

I think Inferno is Ogels son.

Maybe. But it's more likely IMO that he is Ogel's great, great, great, (...) nephew. Ogel probably married that witch from the Advent Calendar/Giant Chess Set and they had kids, etc. And Claw-dette is probably Inferno's sister/cousin! She has quite a resemblance to her great, great, great, (...) grandmother. (same head!)

He's trying to get "papa" back, and rebuild a time travel machine.

Nah. Even if you're right about him being his son, I don't think so. He's too busy trying to take over the world himself.

So... When do we get back on topic?

EDIT: Noobish remark: 1500th post!!! YAY!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Oky Wan Kenobi

[Shoc]

Maybe. But it's more likely IMO that he is Ogel's great, great, great, (...) nephew. Ogel probably married that witch from the Advent Calendar/Giant Chess Set and they had kids, etc. And Claw-dette is probably Inferno's sister/cousin! She has quite a resemblance to her great, great, great, (...) grandmother. (same head!)

Maybe Clawdette goes back in time too...

So... When do we get back on topic?

I don't think we will now!

Seriously though, this Ogel discussion has inspired me. Inspect to see me post a certain MOC (with story) soon...

:skull:

[Zarkan]

Who cares if TLC never shows minifigs dying? Anyone with a tiny bit of experience with lego could figure out how to "kill off" some minifigs easily. Kids have probably been doing it ever since TLC first introduced minifig weapon molds to the system line, and violence was even less evident back then!

I mean, seriously... TLC´s designing their sets in preemptive obedience to the Bible Belt..? Well, maybe that´s meant more allegoric, but if this means indeed

that special U.S. home region of Protestant fundamentalism it would almost make me wish that America would never´ve got discovered (LEGO-wise) at all...

Ah. That would be the legalism doing its work there. And, despite being a self professed Christian, I can say that that particular brand of Christianity is not my cup of tea either, especially since so much of what they claim God is against isn't actually in the Bible. Fortunately, as you said, that doesn't seem to be a real problem anymore. Just look at the current Castle line: there's more fantasy and magic related stuff in there than any previous line TLC has made! Gargoyles and reincarnated skeletons, wizards and witches, and so many other things that the legalists would not find acceptable.

[Oky]

Maybe Clawdette goes back in time too...

Hm... Are you implying that she is the which that Ogel marries? That would be kinda messed up, since in the case of my theory, this would mean that this is one of those weird stories where she makes herself her own grandmother. But it's a possibility, I guess.

In the case of lordofdragonss' theory, maybe Inferno sent her back to retrieve his father, but she fell in love with Ogel and decided to stay in the past with him instead.

I don't think we will now!

Then one of the mods should perhaps rename the topic to "Ogel Discussion Thread".

Seriously though, this Ogel discussion has inspired me. Inspect to see me post a certain MOC (with story) soon...

Awesome! Can't wait!

Who cares if TLC never shows minifigs dying? Anyone with a tiny bit of experience with lego could figure out how to "kill off" some minifigs easily.

Well, this is not what this topic is (supposed to be) about anyway. It's about there not being any deaths in the storylines provided by TLC.

This reminds me that death is usually something introduced at the end of a story. TLC's storylines are usually only the beginning of the story of a theme. They are just meant to spark the imagination of the player and it is up to the player to end the story. This way, he/she is also in charge of the decision if there is going to be deaths in the story or not.