Vikings 05: Vikings are Pirates

[Mister Phes]

Yes, that's right vikings are pirates! There hasbeen debate about this between certain Eurobricks members. However, I'm going to clarify the situation for everyone.

The definition of pirate is:

One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.

Now when we hear the word pirate most of think of some rogue based in the Caribbean with a peg leg, patch over his eye, hook, parrot on shoulder, etc. While it is correct to say this character fits the definition of being a pirate, this is not the definition of pirate. The correct definition for the character this is a buccaneer. Ever since Robert Louis Stevenson romantacized the genre the word "pirate" has become synonymous with the bucacaneer.

So therefore it is no different calling a buccaneer a pirate, than it is to call a viking a pirate. The defining difference is time and location. Obviously there are major cultural, technological, psychological, geographical differences, etc. between buccaneers and vikings but the fact they both pertain to the above definiton is what makes them pirates.

Similiarly, A Corsair was a pirate of the Barbary of the Ivory coast. They're all types of pirates, however are buccaneers, corsairs and vikings is merely a colloquial term used to distinguish them apart.

Here is a wonderful encyclopaedia article about Vikings for you to read

Of course some may still need to feel the need to debate this because you may find its a very radical concept to grasp. But just know a pirate is someone who does naughty things at or from the sea.

[The Middleman]

Phes... we debated this for, what, three or four pages when you first joined...

Bottom line: they're synonyms. Viking means sea raider. Pirate means sea raider. Viking came first. The end! No debate necessary.

So really, the title should be...

Pirates and Vikings are the same thing

[Mister Phes]

Yes, WE debated. But not everyone else has! And you've changed your tune alot since then.

But to say "Pirates and Vikings are the same thing" isn't technically correct, it would be better put "Vikings are a type of pirate"

[DoubleT]

He he I can hear you guys aint Skandinavian lol

Vikings where much more the Fighters............ They where Farmers............. Traders........... Viking is an Culture not an name...

only 1/10 of the time was used for war... The rest of the time they where big time traders, and famers..

Holland/England and Denmark only have big farming now becourse of Vikings

[The Middleman]

Ah, but T, you need to do a bit more research yourself, actually... Viking was the name given to them WHILE THEY WERE RAIDING... the rest of the time, they were known by their nationalities. Most of them were called Northumbrians or Danes.

'Viking' does NOT refer to a culture. It is literally a synonym for 'pirate'. The same cultural stereotyping has occurred with pirates - most people immediately think of 'yarr!' and parrots and peg legs. Are all pirates like that? Of course not! But modern culture has made it so. If the stereotypical Caribbean pirates had raided Western Europe as well, THEY would have been called Vikings.

A Viking is not a type of pirate. A pirate is not a type of Viking. They are the SAME THING. The words were simply used during different time periods. Saying one is a type of another is like saying 'box' is different from 'schachtel' (German for box) because they're different languages. Is a schachtel any different from a box? Of course not! This is the same principle.

[DoubleT]

Lol BJ

As an American you should know....

USA is an name for 50 states......... Indeed an Generel name for 50 "tribes"....

Viking is an term for many tribes, like the tribe known as the "Danes" where the ones who took England

So yes BJ the word "Viking" might come from Somewhere.... But it is now an Generel Name.......... Like USA..

[The Middleman]

Ah, but T, there's a flaw in your logic... 'United States of America' might have 'united states' in it, which is in and of itself a generic term, but there's also 'America', after Amerigo Vespucci, the defining noun that sets it apart. The word 'Viking' has no such noun, and remains generic.

The term was used for many similar tribes because the tribes all performed raids - however, it was generally not used for the tribes at large - only for the raiders, and only when they raided.

[DoubleT]

America is a place, Viking is not ;)

[The Middleman]

America is a place, Viking is not ;)

So you would rather equate Viking to American? Same logic applies.

[DoubleT]

"Viking" is an generel name for the people in Skandinavia at that time, yes the name have to come from somewhere....... But now Vikings are Vikings....... An generel term of many tribes...

And many Civilizations are now known by names given to them ;) Not the native name......

[The Middleman]

Historical Note, Page 332, The Last Kingdom by Bernard Cornwell

Some readers may be disappointed that [the] Danes are called Northmen or pagans in the novel, but are rarely described as Vikings.  In this I follow the early English writers who suffered from the Danes, and who rarely used the word Viking, which, anyway, describes an activity rather than a people or tribe.  To go viking meant to go raiding, and the Danes who fought against England in the ninth century, though undoubtedly raiders, were preeminently invaders and occupiers.

Bernard Cornwell is famed for his extremely accurate historical background information in his historical fiction novels. On top of that, this is from the Historical Note - which traditionally corrects any ERRORS the book may have made historically - so it definitely counts as a viable source.

[DoubleT]

BJ that does not change the fact that people from now know the people from that Time as "Vikings"........

And as i say for the 3 time, evry name comes from somewhere, and you possible correct where the name comes from..

But people now know them as Vikings ;)

[ImperialJohn]

I think the Pirate have you right where he wants you ;) Batteling for words :$

[The Middleman]

BJ that does not change the fact that people from now know the people from that Time as "Vikings"........

And as i say for the 3 time, evry name comes from somewhere, and you possible correct where the name comes from..

But people now know them as Vikings ;)

TT, Viking is not the correct name for them, even in this day and age. Again, they should be referred to as Northmen, Northumbrians, Danes, etc. Only people ignorant of the actualities of the culture would call them Vikings - that's too much of a blanket statement. Still, if you're talking only of the raiders, then that would be fine. Otherwise, they're not Vikings, even now. ;)

If you want to start discussing the governments and the grouping of the tribes within Scandinavia, however, I welcome you to that! Wrote a three-page paper on it just this afternoon...

[DoubleT]

Hey John, you know we Vinkings like a good fight ;) No where is the

[ImperialJohn]

Sure.... It is in our blood :^D

[DoubleT]

Can only say one thing to that...............

SK

[The Middleman]

Sure.... It is in our blood  :^D

Indeed it is... I'm 1/4 Norwegian (1/2 Belgian and 1/4 English). And you do know, of course, that Norway was the true center of the Northmen... Denmark simply took executive power of Iceland and Norway around the late 14th century, so it became the unofficial center of Scandinavia. Of course, it lost that power later.

TT, I did respond to you on the 1st page... make sure you respond... :-D

[DoubleT]

Ahh your only a 1/4th Breed ;)

[The Middleman]

Ahh your only a 1/4th Breed ;)

Ah, but Denmark is less Scandinavian than Norway! :-D

[DoubleT]

Have you ever bin here?

Norways was a part of Denmark, and also Sweden...... Norway have only a contry for 100 years, they had 100 years day this year

Oh and Norway Denmark and Sweden are much alike... oh apart of Denmark haveing the Cheap beer ;)

[ImperialJohn]

I'm 1/4 Norwegian (1/2 Belgian and 1/4 English).

Norwegians are p..... (It has been Danish a lot of years)

Belgian's can't play football.

And the English has allready been beaten once by the Vikings (or Norsemen ;) )

So give up

QED

[DoubleT]

When ImperialJohn says FootBal, he means the right kind, you know where you actuly use your feet ;)l

[The Middleman]

I'm 1/4 Norwegian (1/2 Belgian and 1/4 English).

Norwegians are p..... (It has been Danish a lot of years)

Belgian's can't play football.

And the English has allready been beaten once by the Vikings (or Norsemen ;) )

So give up

QED

Norwegians have fjords and Norwegian Blue Parrots...

Belgians have the best frites, waffles, and chocolate.

And the English drove back the Norsemen as they attempted to take over the last section of England - hence 'The Last Kingdom', the source I quoted. ;)

Anyway, insults take over only in the wake of logic, so I'll take that as concession that you have no argument against what I've said about the origin of 'Viking'...

@TT - Norway and Iceland were self-governed until 1262, when Iceland agreed to give executive power to the king of Norway. And then, as I said, in the late 14th century, Denmark in turn seized executive power of Norway and Iceland. And again, it lost that power fairly quickly. Denmark is less Scandinavian in origin than the rest of the countries... it's simply related because of the past rule it had over other Scandinavian countries.

PS - Quad Erat Demonstratum doesn't apply to this, John. ;)

[DoubleT]

Denmark is Skandinavian becourse we are the same people, and there where "Viking" People here in Denmark...

Now stop trying to be so cleaver, when you are wrong :)