Star Wars

[Mr Man]

I think a good balance is needed, the main problem with ROTS and AOTC was the lack of sets been built, it gave no depth to the acting, look at the Han Lea scene in ESB and compare it to the shots of Obi and Mace wandering up and down the Jedi temple, it's so much less immersive. However the Land Battles need to be a mixture of both, Geonosis was far too OTT and the colours so red you could hardly make out the action, whereas Hoth suffers (now) from things like the already destroyed turrets before the battle started (because of lack of money for re filming shots) they could easily be digitally corrected (leaving aside GL approach to SEs). Space battles need to really be all CGI or all Model, not a mixture, the Trench Run in ANH SE is a good example the new CGI fighters look really good but superimposed on a really plastic looking DS surface set. I've seen some all GCI fan remakes of the Battle of Endor, in the style of the Battle of Coruscant and they look suitably epic.

[Artanis I]

I find CGI stuff often looks amazing when you first see it, but years later looks like rubbish. Take Jurassic Park for example, it was cutting edge at the time. Looked so real! Now, it's so obvious that it's fake - but it's the same with the models, now you can tell the bits that are obviously robots, but back then it looked organic.

I watched the OT last weekend, and you can easily tell what has been digitally added, and also what was puppet-like in scale model animation. I hate when Luke & Han are shooting down TIEs and there's these black squares that are not the same black as the rest of space. I hate when the poorly stop-motioned AT-STs are getting blown up in ROTJ.

Movie magic is illusion, and when the illusion becomes apparent, the magic is gone.

[Faefrost]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I liked the look of RotS and was kinda hoping they'd continue with that technology. I was also kinda looking forward to the first SW film in real 3D which might have been interesting, but I have no interest in the 3D if it's converted (I hear the 3D in Star Trek sucked).

And while the statement that doing CG effects on film is not as easy as on digital film is true to an extent, it doesn't say anything about how many props they are going to use. It's still very possible for them to do everything in CG, it just gives the VFX artists more work. But yeah, I'd prefer more props as well.

One other reported rumor is that ILM is seriously ramping up their model shop and practical effects division. Word from on high is that Disney does not want another look alike CGI mess. And it's not like CGI saves them that much money for the fx stuff these days.

[Fives]

I just stumbled upon this brilliant deconstruction of Obi-Wan and Luke's pivotal discussion in A New Hope that makes me wish the prequels could be remade.

http://moviepilot.com/articles/1117583-star-wars-retrospective-obi-wan-lies-deconstructing-a-pivotal-scene-from-a-new-hope

[Brickadeer]

The link doesn't work for me :/ Can you give some more information?

[Fives]

The link doesn't work for me :/ Can you give some more information?

Basically, this guy deconstructs Luke and Ben's conversation from ANH when Ben tells Luke about his father and the Clone War. Basically, the lie that Owen told Luke about Anakin being a 'navigator on a spice freighter', Anakin being 'the best star pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior', areall kinda debunked in the prequels.

The same kind wrote another short article of how he thought that if TPM had been cast differently and Anakin been a young smuggler with profound Force abilities at the start of the trilogy would have made for a more convincing character, and helped make sense of Ben's comments to Luke.

He says that before Anakin became a Jedi, he could've been a smuggler who could've been captured by the Republic, and as a chance to make up for his 'criminal past', he's given the job of smuggling Jedi onto Naboo during the Crisis on Naboo, which could've been one of the main events that starts the Clone War.

The Jedi witness his amazing abilities as a pilot and see his potential with the Force, so they bring him under their wing.

The Clone War could start by the the end of the first film. Also, Anakin could meet Padme by then.

The second film would be when Anakin becomes Vader. This guy felt like the prequels could've been treated like the OT, with the first act setting everything up, the second act everything goes to shit, and the third things are 'resovled' and set up the stage for the OT.

In the second film, Anakin would demonstrate his prowess as a warrior and be considered a hero by the galaxy. At the same time, he a Padme are in secret having kids. The Jedi discover this and expell Anakin from the order, and take Padme under their protection as a way of securing Anakin's offspring will become Jedi. This separation from his family, caused by the Jedi, would be Anakin's motivation to turn to the Sith.

In ANH, Ben mentions how there was a betrayal. This family split up caused by the Jedi could be that.

Anyway, the second film would end with Anakin becoming Vader, but without the suit. The entire third film would be about the Jedi Purge, pretty much. In ANH, Ben says how Vader 'hunted' the Jedi, so this guy felt like the Purge should've been stretched out far longer.

Also, he goes into detail about how Owen could've been a main character in the prequels, either being Anakin's brother or Obi-Wan's brother. I like the idea of Owen be ping Anakin's brother, because it would help make sense of Owen's immense distrust of Anakin and Ben in ANH, and why he doesn't want Luke finding Ben.

Overall, he makes this amazing alternate version of the prequels that makes me cry, because now I wish this was the version we had. I'm thinking that if these films had been made, they could've used designs from McQuarrie's original paintings to create the costumes and ship designs. One thing I've noticed is now the costumes and overall designs of the Prequels feel very distant and far too different from the feel of the OT. If the designs and costumes had not been so drastically different, there would've been more of a feeling of continuity between the trilogies. Now when I watch the Prequels, I kinda feel like I'm watching films from a different universe.

If you can find it, go to Moviepilot.com and search Star Wars. This should be one of the most recent articles, and its definitely worth reading. It has completely changed my view of the PT, and really seeing what a catastrophe it is.

Anyway, I think I did a decent job of summarizing the main points of the article.

[Tariq j]

Hi, hopefully this is the right place to ask this, a friend of mine who, sadly, has never seen Star Wars before, so we've decided to have a SW movie marathon at my House on Saturday, anyway should I show him the PT first then the OT or the OT followed by the PT?

[Brickdoctor]

Show the OT and then say that the PT doesn't exist; it's just a conspiracy invented by Lucasfilm to confuse those who aren't true Star Wars fans.

[Brickadeer]

@Fives: thanks for taking the effort of writing such an extensive summary.

What always bothered me about the PT is that everything culminated in Anakin becoming Vader. It happened at the end of EP III, together with the destruction of the Jedi order, which always left me with the question what for Sidious exactly needed Vader. And I found the way the friendship of Anakin and Obi Wan was shown to be artificial and not convincing.

I think that I'd agree with a couple or even many of the ideas the guy suggested. I'd like to see a remake of the PT, but I don't think it's likely to happen.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Oky]

Hi, hopefully this is the right place to ask this, a friend of mine who, sadly, has never seen Star Wars before, so we've decided to have a SW movie marathon at my House on Saturday, anyway should I show him the PT first then the OT or the OT followed by the PT?

I'd say show the OT first, then the PT, as seeing the PT first might be off-putting to the average viewer and this way your friend can experience SW the way all the original fans experienced it. It's good to know what happens in the OT when watching the PT, but you don't need to watch the PT to enjoy the OT.

Show the OT and then say that the PT doesn't exist; it's just a conspiracy invented by Lucasfilm to confuse those who aren't true Star Wars fans.

[Scorpiox]

Show the OT and then say that the PT doesn't exist; it's just a conspiracy invented by Lucasfilm to confuse those who aren't true Star Wars fans.

I think that deciding for someone whether or not they should like a set of films is a bit of a stretch. Especially since most of the dislike for the prequels comes from those who saw the proper movies when they were new and are surprised by how much a director can gradually make his great work seem worse. The fair and unbiased thing to do would be to let the watch the original trilogy (because they are mostly good films), then offer them the chance to see the recent three if they are interested in bearing witness to George's mental decay. That's what the prequel series is, really, an obituary to Star Wars as a credible step forward in cinema.

And on a general note: if the writing and CGI for this new Disney line of films is anything like what Georgie butchered did to the Special Editions. Messing around with some of the best parts of those movies for the kiddies' first viewing and preventing them from ever seeing the original work should be considered child abuse, quite frankly.

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"Oh no! The kids these days are too dumb to cope with a man who has a gun in his face shooting first, I better lean Harrison Ford's skull to one side so that no-one mistakes him for a cold-blooded killer."

"Sure, George, go ahead. The fans'll love it! While you're at it, why don't you slap on some dinosaurs and the guy who plays Anakin's smug arrogant face on Sebastian Shaw? Ooh ooh! Maybe a ridiculous and infuriatingly childish song-and-dance routine into the dark and intimidating Jabba's Palace!"

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But heck, I say long live the prequels so long as LEGO keeps making sets of them. It's what got us LEGO Star Wars in the first place anyway.

[Brickdoctor]

Show the OT and then say that the PT doesn't exist; it's just a conspiracy invented by Lucasfilm to confuse those who aren't true Star Wars fans.

I think that deciding for someone whether or not they should like a set of films is a bit of a stretch.

You sound confused about the reality of the PT conspiracy. You must not be a true Star Wars fan.

[Scorpiox]

You sound confused about the reality of the PT conspiracy. You must not be a true Star Wars fan.

My apologies, I must have left my tin-foil hat somewhere along the road - my less-than-militant attitude is likely the result of them messing with my brain-waves! Ahhhhhh!

[Tariq j]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I think I'll show him the OT and then the PT.

[Mr Man]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I think I'll show him the OT and then the PT.

A good order to watch them in is IV, V, I, II, III, VI, so the PT is essentially watched as a flashback. Or the other way is chronological, I, II, III, IV, V, VI, there is no other way to watch them... .

[Brickdoctor]

A good order to watch them in is IV, V, I, II, III, VI,

I don't like that order because it kills some of the suspense (or at least that which remains out of common public knowledge) of the end of Empire when you have the PT explaining it before Jedi resolves it. The OT stands on its own as a story; the PT does not. I like OT first, you see it, it's a complete story, then if you want more explanation, you have the PT.

[Mr Man]

I don't like that order because it kills some of the suspense (or at least that which remains out of common public knowledge) of the end of Empire when you have the PT explaining it before Jedi resolves it. The OT stands on its own as a story; the PT does not. I like OT first, you see it, it's a complete story, then if you want more explanation, you have the PT.

I never felt that the OT was complete, it always felt that it dropped you right into something that you should know what's going on. With the OT there was no connection to the real world, no books it was an adaption of, plus starting with Episode IV kinda annoys most people (this was before TPM came out). The PT can feel like a complete closed ended story, just one were the bad guys win, and the last film was overly rushed.

[Brickdoctor]

I never felt that the OT was complete, it always felt that it dropped you right into something that you should know what's going on. With the OT there was no connection to the real world, no books it was an adaption of, plus starting with Episode IV kinda annoys most people (this was before TPM came out). The PT can feel like a complete closed ended story, just one were the bad guys win, and the last film was overly rushed.

You do know what's going on; that's what the opening crawl is for. And a lot of core Star Wars concepts are explained throughout the movie following Luke's progression. How else would people have watched Star Wars in 1977 without being confused?

[Leo604]

Tariq, this article may or may not be useful to you: https://bitly.com/bundles/shwitz/3

Essentially, the dude showed his first-time-watching kids in the order IV, V, I, II, III, VI and blogged about it in that link. Just some food for thought if you haven't already showed your friend the movies.

[Chills]

I'm definitely an OT guy, love those movies. I even love the fact you can see the darker squares around the models that Artanis was ripping on. I love the look of the models, and the story is fantastic.

I watched the PT many times, and each time I like it less and less. It's missing so much, like the deep friendship between Anakin and Obi-wan that was supposed to be there. Lucas never develops this. And the love between Padme and Anakin feels so artificial, there's no spark like between Han and Leia. And the whole convoluted scheme to build up and army and pitch the galaxy into war, it leaves so many questions unanswered and could have made more sense. We also should have seen Alderaan, and built up a relationship with the planet so we cared about it when Tarkin destroys it.

That being said not all of the PT is rubbish. The expansion of the ideas of the Force was great, especially the monk-like lives of the Jedi, the Sith/apprentice relationship, the use of clones vs. droids for a war, and the use of aliens from the OT throughout the scenes.

I am an optimist and I have high hopes for the Sequel Trilogy. I just hope JJ tones down the lens flares.

[Brickdoctor]

Tariq, this article may or may not be useful to you: https://bitly.com/bundles/shwitz/3

Very interesting. I think the IV, V, I, II, III, VI order might work for kids who don't know about how plots are set up or how characters can be dynamic or static, and all the info in Sith doesn't ruin Jedi. But for me, I started seeing the PT for the first time in...'02, I think (I was a "LEGO introduced me to Star Wars" person as opposed to the very common "Star Wars introduced me to LEGO".), and I think I saw it in the order I, IV, V, VI, II, III (because Clones wasn't out on VHS at that time). And there weren't any secrets in Menace that I couldn't figure out, and I liked having the PT expand on and explain the points already known from the OT as I saw Clones and Sith last as they came out.

[Artanis I]

There's a number of secrets/surprises that are spoiled if you watch the movies in a certain order. If you watch the OT you know before watching the PT: Anakin will become Darth Vader, Obi-Wan & Yoda will survive but no other jedi, Palpatine is a Sith Lord, dead jedi can come back as ghosts, Anakin has kids, the clones become the "enemy", the Republic will fail...

If you watch the PT first, before watching the OT you know: Luke & Leia are siblings, who Obi-Wan & Yoda are, Anakin is Darth Vader, I am your father, force lightning, R2D2 & C3PO have been to Tatooine before and know Obi-Wan...

I first saw them all out of order. VI, IV, I, II, III, V. Weirdest thing of all of that is that I saw Spaceballs before any of them. You've gotta watch it after the OT, really.

[Mr Man]

There is no one in the world (including children) who do not already know that

Luke an Leia are siblings and that Vader is Luke's Farther, and that Anakin is Vader, and Palps is the Emperor.

[Brickadeer]

I am an optimist and I have high hopes for the Sequel Trilogy. I just hope JJ tones down the lens flares.

I don't have high hopes. That doesn't mean that I expect the new movies to be bad either, but I'm prepared for the worst.

The point is that disney is a company that made an investment, and their primary goal is to generate revenue.

The current strategy for EP VII is risk-averse, that means they chose personel with a high reputation in the film business, like Abrams. Thus, I think the film will be made to appeal to the mass market, so if in doubt, the design principle will be "what sells" rather than "does it feel Star Wars'ish".

Per definition, a risk exists if the consequences of a certain decision are unknown at the point it is made. In this regard, making Star Wars back in the 70s was a risky decision: the genre crossover was new, and noone actually knew if the film would generate revenues or not. Basically, Lucas' vision and McQuarrie's visualization of this vision were the criteria to make the film.

The problem between creative freedom and predicatability s expressed in Steve Job's quotes, "How does somebody know what they want if they haven’t even seen it?", or "It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them." Now, will the guys making EP VII enjoy the freedom to design the film the way they want it, or will they have to take external restrictions into account, aiming on securing the outcome of their work? I think the last will be the case.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Brickadeer

[Artanis I]

There is no one in the world (including children) who do not already know

Now, now.