"New & Sealed" sets on Bricklink are a scam. Change my mind

[MAB]

8 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

Especially in the case of a minifigure, it's impossible, in my mind, for it to be sold as "new" but loose, because it requires assembly.

I have sold 1000s of new minifigures on bricklink. I open a set, remove the relevant minifig parts, and put them in their own ziplock bag. I've never felt the need for it to be assembled to be called a minifigure. For me, having all the correct parts in unused condition just as if you removed it from a LEGO bag yourself is the best you can have for the secondary market.

When buying anything on the secondary market, there is an element of trust on the buyer's part and reputation of the seller. For customers that lack trust,  they will have to buy full sets direct from LEGO or retailers.

[JesseNight]

21 hours ago, Kit Figsto said:

Regarding the point about instructions/individual parts not being "new," I've always felt that the distinction between selling individual parts, minifigures, boxes, or instructions and listing them as "new" was kind of hokey to begin with.

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This gets even more shady at times on eBay, where I see people all the time listing stuff that is blatantly used under the "new" category.  I can't tell how you many people I've seen literally listing built sets as "new" which, I don't care how good of condition it's in, that's just untrue (especially when it's a set from the early 90s!). 

Totally agree. The interpretation of "new" varies a lot, and obviously sellers and buyers use a different interpretation.
In my own language, we make a distinction between "new" and "as good as new" (literally translated), the latter meaning it's been barely used and in nearly new condition but opened and handled nonetheless. While true new is either MIB (mint in box, unopened) or MISB (mint in sealed box). But even with those clear distinctions, I see stuff misplaced as "new" all the time. And if you report or question it, it's just a case of "oops, misclicked".
Also I wonder how much a "sealed box" means nowadays considering equipment to reseal stuff is easy to get access to and not expensive anymore.

Therefore, I have to agree that I would most likely never pay premium for something "new" out of the hands of a third party other than an official store.

13 hours ago, MAB said:

When buying anything on the secondary market, there is an element of trust on the buyer's part and reputation of the seller. For customers that lack trust,  they will have to buy full sets direct from LEGO or retailers.

Very true.
At the same time, such trust can be easily damaged by a couple of bad experiences.

Edited June 16 by JesseNight

[MAB]

10 hours ago, JesseNight said:

Totally agree. The interpretation of "new" varies a lot, and obviously sellers and buyers use a different interpretation.
In my own language, we make a distinction between "new" and "as good as new" (literally translated), the latter meaning it's been barely used and in nearly new condition but opened and handled nonetheless. While true new is either MIB (mint in box, unopened) or MISB (mint in sealed box). But even with those clear distinctions, I see stuff misplaced as "new" all the time. And if you report or question it, it's just a case of "oops, misclicked".
Also I wonder how much a "sealed box" means nowadays considering equipment to reseal stuff is easy to get access to and not expensive anymore.

 

And on BL there is a clear definition of new. It is not used. As good as new is still used.

I don't understand the difference in your descriptions of (mint in box, unopened) and (mint in sealed box) and that is why people should use the correct settings on BL. If the contents are not used for building then select new, and if the box is still factory sealed then select sealed, if everything is present then select complete. People using their own conditions such as MISB, MIB, 9.5, 5 stars, etc just complicate things as they are not defined on BL. MISB causes arguments over whether only the contents need to be mint, or whether it means the box should also be mint. And using it implies a guarantee that there is no damage to anything inside the box, which a seller cannot guarantee if the box is sealed.

10 hours ago, JesseNight said:

Therefore, I have to agree that I would most likely never pay premium for something "new" out of the hands of a third party other than an official store.

Very true.
At the same time, such trust can be easily damaged by a couple of bad experiences.

Which is fine and those people should not be using Bricklink. They can stick to current sets at retail stores instead.

[JesseNight]

10 hours ago, MAB said:

And on BL there is a clear definition of new. It is not used. As good as new is still used.

That's good. I'm no seller myself so wasn't aware of it.
Are we really surprised about people either not knowing or just ignoring it though...?
 

10 hours ago, MAB said:

I don't understand the difference in your descriptions of (mint in box, unopened) and (mint in sealed box) and that is why people should use the correct settings on BL. If the contents are not used for building then select new, and if the box is still factory sealed then select sealed, if everything is present then select complete. People using their own conditions such as MISB, MIB, 9.5, 5 stars, etc just complicate things as they are not defined on BL.

Oh I brought up those terms just in a general context about selling, not specifically about BL or even LEGO at all.
From your description I can only tell that BL's terms are very clear. But again, I'm not surprised with people either not knowing or not following it.

[recovering_from_dark_ages]

A bit belated, but for all of the naysayers in this thread, I've attached proof that there is absolutely no excuse for the tires to be so worn on a "New & Sealed" 8455 set, from this current EBay listing. Notice that all four tires are in perfect condition with none of the obvious rear tire wear shown in my OP.