Where is 'the line' when it comes to custom parts?

[LordsofMedieval]

So... I mostly build trains. I dabble in other stuff (ships... sometimes castles), but trains are my forte.

Lately (and this is in NO WAY being critical of the builders. I admire their work, creativity, and desire to push the boundaries of the hobby. In the very least, it would be massively hypocritical of me to criticize them for something I do myself) I have noticed a trend specifically in trains (but it could be happening elsewhere) to go way, way beyond the use of custom wheels and driving rods (items I think most people would agree these specific items are kind of a necessity, considering how little attention TLG pays to trains overall): people are flexing pieces to the point they are broken; people are actually cutting pieces; people are using glue. I've seen models - models that are revered, have received high praise, and even, in some cases won awards - where a number of parts were 3d printed because shapes simply don't exist in Lego's inventory. Some guy, best I can tell, even 3d printed the entire sides of his tender (not going to name names - the model is really awesome, but it could be construed as calling a person out). 

I don't personally feel strongly about this subject one way or the other. I do everything conceivable to avoid using third party parts, or defaulting to a 3d printer. But sometimes if you're going to achieve a certain look - especially in smaller scales, where you're attempting to design something to mirror a real life object - that's the only option.

But there are clearly people who do feel strongly about it. I have seen comments on these very forums to the effect of "I wasn't even sure that was Lego anymore"... and I don't think they're always intended to be complimentary. There definitely seems to be an underlying 'purist' strain in the AFOL community where people are almost religiously opposed to the inclusion of non-Lego parts. And, while I don't agree with this crowd, I do concede there is a point where creativity starts to spill over into... laziness? Cheating (how can you cheat at something that has no rules)? <Insert participle of your choice here?> I don't know where that line is... but it's out there, and once you go beyond it, no, it can't really be considered Lego anymore because... so much of what you have in that endeavor isn't Lego.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start a fight. I was more just working on a model at the moment that was going to require a few... select 'fudged' elements, and was curious to see what other people thought about the issue. 

[Alexandrina]

I'm pretty purist personally (aside from a few specific minifigure elements) but I tend not to judge people too harshly for using non-Lego parts, especially since sometimes they make a MOC wonderful. I can't say I've heard of people 3D printing their own pieces (usually when people are using non-Lego, it's either customs from an established customs shop or other brands' pieces) but I don't think I'd bat an eye at a few small bits.

To me, it would get to the point where I'd say "is this Lego any more?" when a clear majority of the visible pieces are 3D printed specifically for the model, especially if they're large pieces that take up a lot of the surface area. To my mind using non-Lego elements to complement a build is not an issue at all, but if all you can see when you look at a build is non-Lego, I'm going to be wondering why you bothered making it out of Lego at all. That said, I can't think of any examples off hand.

[Murdoch17]

Anything beyond custom wheels or stickers is a no-no from me - especially 3D printing things that can be done reasonably well in LEGO bricks alone. However, having said that, I'm a realist (and a bit of a hypocrite): I've bought two three-way 3D printed switches because I don't have the table space / room to make it work with regular left / right switches. Doing things beyond that (I.E. 3D printing this or gluing that while painting the other) is a non-starter in my world. I don't do model railroading, I do Lego trains because it fits me better as person. ...and it's leagues cheaper to boot*!! If I wanted to do glue, 3D print, or paint, I'd do HO like my stepdad does. Once you do these things, why stick with the brick at all? You might as well build a scale model layout as it's nearly the same thing by that point.

*You think LEGO is expensive? Try looking in a Bachmann catalog for O scale stuff, as that's close to Lego track gauge. You will have your socks blown off by prices, and those several-hundred-dollar locos you see aren't even the really $$$$ brass ones! You'll be praising Lego for keeping prices as low as they have by the end of the catalog! 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Murdoch17

[Peppermint_M]

I use baseplates and figure accessories. Oh, and any stickers that fit what I like (Mostly Aviation decals and Racing numbers). 

Personal choice is what I would go with, as long as they are not entering contests with rules about such things.

3D printing is interesting for solving issues that LEGO can't, it has opened up a lot of possibilities.

[LordsofMedieval]

35 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

I use baseplates and figure accessories. Oh, and any stickers that fit what I like (Mostly Aviation decals and Racing numbers). 

Personal choice is what I would go with, as long as they are not entering contests with rules about such things.

3D printing is interesting for solving issues that LEGO can't, it has opened up a lot of possibilities.

I'm waiting on the technology to mature a bit more. I would really like to see home 3D printing achieve something close to injection-mold quality. Some of the professional websites (shapeways, etc.) offer prints that actually attain this level, albeit at insane prices. Another few years and I'm optimistic we'll see it spread to home printing. Then the sky's kind of the limit. 

[Mylenium]

At the end of the day it probably simply boils down to the same points as to whether one would be willing to use standardized bricks from other companies. Personally I'm a purist and stay completely away from that. Not in the sense that I'll say the "Hail LEGO!", but rather that once you start to get into this it muddies up the waters too much and the headaches aren't worth it. I only have so much space to store stuff separately, anyway. And in a way I find that fixing shortcomings and deficiencies of LEGO with custom parts/ alternate parts is a bit lame and just taking shortcuts. It's not that I for instance wouldn't love to have direction inverters for upside-down building, but whenever I see people sneaking in such stuff from "Chines company X" into their otherwise clean LEGO models it still makes me cringe. Therefore for me the only valid use of custom parts or alternate parts on LEGO models is really just two scenarios:

a) Filling in bulk with large models, but only with identical pieces that also exist as genuine LEGO.

b) Adding details to models and minifigures, but only for personal use and enjoyment.

There is of course room to interpret any of this and I'm well aware that the situation for train hobbyists, medieval knights, military and a few other scenarios is so dire that they just accept doing their own thing in those communities and creating the missing elements themselves/ using alternative pieces is just accepted practice, but I would just not do it.

Mylenium

[MAB]

I use custom parts for minifig accessories but not much else. I don't really care what others do so long as they are upfront about it when showing MOCs. 

[Lyichir]

I think unless you’re MOCing for a contest or something with specific rules, “the line” is wherever you want it to be. Some people are strictly purist, others will happily MOC with clone brands or even non-plastic “mixed media”.

Personally I lean more toward the purist end of the spectrum. That’s less because I’m ideologically opposed to clone brands or third-party customs and more because I generally haven’t found ones that satisfy my particular tastes. I love seeing the work of expert minifig customizers, though.

[Feuer Zug]

I'm mostly a purist, but understand people looking outside of LEGO options to make certain MOCs. Everybody has their personal reasons for using/playing with LEGO. If they want to incorporate outside parts or stick with only LEGO pieces, who am I to judge them. Only when a show or contest requires "purity", does it seem to really matter. As I dabble in trains and military builds, I am quite aware of the third party options out there for wheels, valve gear, side rods, switches, weapons and the like. I have a few third party switches and curves myself, along with using knock off baseplates when they are fully covered over. Thusly, I try not to be the hypocrite in the crowd. Now, let's all play nice.

[CallMeCarbiz]

For the longest time the only exception I allowed in my builds were some minifig swords and custom capes. In the last couple of years I've started using the generic blocks that I get when buying bulk lots to build up the foundation under my builds. So I guess percentage wise I'm not much of a purist, but as far as what you can see I am.

I've seen some cool 3D printed stuff that I wish LEGO would make, like some minifig sized Mickey Ears, but for the most part I'm satisfied with what LEGO offers in the brick department.

 

[Feuer Zug]

22 hours ago, CallMeCarbiz said:

In the last couple of years I've started using the generic blocks that I get when buying bulk lots to build up the foundation under my builds.

Have you considered Duplo where appropriate? I've gotten plenty of Duplo for dirt cheap with bulk lots and used them to hold up parts of my tunnels.

[MaximillianRebo]

Each to their own but it's the purist life for me. I can understand though why some, especially in themes like trains, would need to use pieces that don't exist in Lego's collection. It's a challenge sometimes to make a certain structure or shape work with only existing pieces - will there ever be a plate with studs on both sides? - but often that challenge/restriction pushes me in a direction I wouldn't otherwise consider and the results are better because of it.

[GlacierPhoenix]

I tend to use third party weapons and helmets for my Star Wars builds. A few custom printed bodies too but they're all printed on official LEGO.

A lot of the train people I know need custom parts for parts the curved in their railway, since LEGO only makes one curve size. 

Some are using custom baseplates and 16x16 or 32x32 plates to make the base layers for MILS as that's quite parts intensive and is only the base layer. 

[CallMeCarbiz]

On 6/7/2023 at 8:48 AM, Feuer Zug said:

Have you considered Duplo where appropriate? I've gotten plenty of Duplo for dirt cheap with bulk lots and used them to hold up parts of my tunnels.

I'll have to try it. I just offloaded the DUPLO parts from my past bulk lots to my neighbors kids.

[Toastie]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:30 PM, Lyichir said:

I think unless you’re MOCing for a contest or something with specific rules, “the line” is wherever you want it to be. Some people are strictly purist, others will happily MOC with clone brands or even non-plastic “mixed media”.

100% this - for me!

Tend to lean towards the One and Only. But that slowly but constantly fades away. Last week, my group (including me ) attended ASMS in Houston/Texas, and one company was giving away (literally) a serious "set" of one of their instruments - not the point. The thing is, I was completely blown away by the quality of the bricks and plates - from a clone company. I have no idea which one that is, but there is zero reason to not mix them with TLC's stuff. Will post on that thing in the EB Community Forum.

As a last resort, I sometimes drill through bricks and plates, cut them, and glue small pieces together. At age 60+, I simply don't want to waste any more time for TLG making the piece I need, they did not for 50+ years - but I was soooo long waiting for. And then sometimes (or better: quite often), they did. 

Best regards,
Thorsten

[MAB]

34 minutes ago, Toastie said:

I have no idea which one that is, but there is zero reason to not mix them with TLC's stuff. Will post on that thing in the EB Community Forum.

 

Some clones are very good quality these days but the reason I don't mix them is often due to colour, if they are close but not quite the same as LEGO. 

[Toastie]

The colors used in this model are "white", "LBG", and "black"; the latter even not being a color at all ... and I am color-blind. That is why I mix. You and others do certainly not.

Best,
Thorsten

 

[Feuer Zug]

On 6/12/2023 at 6:12 PM, MAB said:

Some clones are very good quality these days but the reason I don't mix them is often due to colour, if they are close but not quite the same as LEGO. 

Not like LEGO has consistent colour all the time. Add in the fading issue and who cares?

I'm with @Toastie, each person has their own line. Please respect their line as they should respect yours.

[MAB]

14 hours ago, Feuer Zug said:

Not like LEGO has consistent colour all the time. Add in the fading issue and who cares?

I'm with @Toastie, each person has their own line. Please respect their line as they should respect yours.

Where exactly was I disrespectful? Toastie said there is zero reason to mix clones with lego. There are many reasons not to mix clones with lego. Some people may not care about those, but they still exist.

[Feuer Zug]

4 hours ago, MAB said:

Where exactly was I disrespectful? Toastie said there is zero reason to mix clones with lego. There are many reasons not to mix clones with lego. Some people may not care about those, but they still exist.

I did not mean to imply you were disrespectful. If it came off that way, my apologies. My comment was meant more towards the general audience as a statement to the tune of, "If what somebody else is doing doesn't harm you, then why do you care?" I see too many people trying to push their opinion and would rather they mind their own business. Toastie mentioned being impressed with a clone brand and if he likes it and wants to mix it with his collection, I have no right to say a bloody word. Same goes for your adherence to the colour consistency of LEGO bricks versus clones. Again, I was implying that each person has their own way of doing things and that's fine by me.

[evank]

I think custom parts are awesome! (Non-commercial plug: I run the Facebook group called "BrickHacks" which is for people who love to drill, cut, modify, 3D print, paint, machine, use other brands, etc. so Lego models can do even more.)

Personally, the most common way that I modify parts is by sanding down corners and edges. This helps with parts that have to mesh together in large mechanical models.

[zinnn]

I’m a purist personally, and wouldn’t spend a penny on a non-Lego piece. But you do you 🤠

[Mordt]

I mostly avoid non Lego pieces, except for weapons/parts for minifigs. 
I’ve thought about getting a 3d printer for printing small SNOT bricks before, but the challenge by not doing that is fun. 
Rarely I’ll cut bricks, most of the time bars, so I can put together little double sided things for really small MOCs. 

[Toastie]

On 7/24/2023 at 8:44 PM, evank said:

I think custom parts are awesome! (Non-commercial plug: I run the Facebook group called "BrickHacks" which is for people who love to drill, cut, modify, 3D print, paint, machine, use other brands, etc. so Lego models can do even more.)

I do share this notion 100%.

Recently joined an Atari Forum to ask about Win11 COM port access within the Atari "Hatari" emulator, so that I can program something using GFABasic to access 9750 via the Atari's serial port. Won't work, but I do have an Atari 1040 STFM which works flawlessly; it has a GoTek as drive 0, the internal floppy as drive 1 (there is a nice pad on the PCB you can use to make that change with a switch). And it does talk flawlessly to 9750 via my little ArduinoNano serial2parallel converter I used before. Not the point:

There seems to be a "once upon a time" period, when even TLG was OK with doing things, that are nowadays unthinkable: Using tin foil, all sorts of wires, to make custom sensors and the like. I love that. In the Atari world, this hardware/software combo is called Atari Robokit. When you google this, you get the manual, PCB layout, and much more for the device to attach to one of the Atari ports:

The thing is: LEGO apparently endorsed this approach - using the 4.5V wires and a screwdriver to pop off the plugs, screw them to the Atari Robokit board, which is so much more flexible than any pure TLG solution ...

This is true TLG philosophy: Make what is needed to satisfy your demands. But after 1990 this philosophy fell into oblivion. For today's purists, that is. Back then, it was OK. And still pure, as it seems.

BTW: When you follow that video link and look around, there is so much more.

Best,
Thorsten

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Toastie

[evank]

With set 1038, Universal Buggy, I know for fact that Lego intended hobbyists to control it by their own means and hacks -- because Lego engineers who worked on it told me so. And there are plenty of examples of companies like the Robokit folks who loved using Lego with their own interfaces. But do you have any further evidence, preferably something documented, that Lego "endorsed" those aftermarket products? Just because Robokit and its peers used Lego, doesn't mean Lego officially endorsed it. So I am curious what makes you say that. :) We know Lego * tacitly * endorsed it. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by evank