GBC Train Query - Supplementry Motor

[doug72]

GBC Train System Query.

Currently working on an improved swing loader GBC train module but have hit problems due insufficient power to run it even with an L motor train unit, unless it is geared right down.
It is designed to keep the ball carrier horizontal throughout the loading cycle.

Works well when powered by a train with an L motor, but not when driven via areversing unit and sometimes reverser locks up.

I have tried using reversers using new 20t clutch gears and the older style 16T clutch gears and the older version seems better.

It can carry up to 30 balls in the ball carrier per trip but VERY SLOW cycle speed,  with less balls it is faster in operation.

Two full battery boxes acts as counterweights to balance the load.

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I am thinking of a supplementary drive L motor with it own battery pack directing powering the module and controlled by a PF reversing switch which have its own reversing unit synchronised with the train reverser unit.

I have tested this to see if is workable but needs more work to syncronise it with the train reverser.

Is this permissible and acceptable for GBC Train system ?

Edited January 23, 2020 by Doug72

[Berthil]

For me the attractive part of the train system is the fact that the train drives everything but it has its limitations as you state. I'm not in favor of it but when nicely executed into something spectacular why not :)
That said, I've made the pneumatic scissor lift that is timed by the train but air and an air compressor do the work. So I think I disqualified myself to pass on  judgement :)

[doug72]

On 1/20/2020 at 9:41 PM, Berthil said:

For me the attractive part of the train system is the fact that the train drives everything but it has its limitations as you state. I'm not in favor of it but when nicely executed into something spectacular why not :)
That said, I've made the pneumatic scissor lift that is timed by the train but air and an air compressor do the work. So I think I disqualified myself to pass on  judgement :)

Thanks for your comments, I will try a simple MOD to the Train reverser  before pressing on with the build with a supplementry power source.

Noted that when under heavy load the train car jumps around and the 8t axle gear can skip & loose contact with the 24t gear.
If I hold down the train by hand it functions better transfering the power to the module being driven.

I have added some extra parts to keep train car located correctly on the train reverser to keep it straight on the track.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Doug72
Image & MOD removed as train cannot exit !!

[doug72]

Now tested with modified train reverser and train car much more stable when under load.

With ball carrier and 30 balls cycle time is 1m 45 secs which a bit slow, currently have 20/12 step gears in drive chain, will try with 24/8 step up gears.

Now tested with 24/8 gears and cycle time is 1min with 30 balls in ball carrier.

Also need to identify some slight stiction in the drive train to the swinging arms.

Edited January 21, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

Swing Loader MOC.
Build so far have checked over & gearing changed to ensure everything runs smoothly but there is still mot enough power from a train unit to run module at a decent speed when carrying balls.
With a reverser for changing swing arm travel added even slower.

Therefore I have decided on an Electro/Mechanical system using a Lego motor to provide power for the Swing Loader.
The Train unit & reverser will control this.

Supplementary Power source.
Tested the Swing Loader with 30 balls in ball carrier using direct drive using M & L motors. Speed & cycle time now meets GBC regs for 30 balls per minute.

The system requires two PF switches of the old type which have free movement unlike the new ones without the small back pole change switch.

One switch is activated by an arriving Train Car to power up the system, and to switch off power when the Train car leaves the reverser module.

The PF switch is mounted on the train reverser as shown in the photos below.

Stops are required to limit switch travel and a counterweight arm to return the switch to the off position. Now tested this and works OK

Second Switch is required to control the supplementary motor.

The PF switch to control the supplementary motor will operated by a simple reverser unit, driven from the train reverser,

A short dwell period is required at  both ends of swing arm travel, which should be easy to achieve I hope.

Hardest task will be to set the timing !!

Edited January 23, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

Train GBC with supplementary drive motor.

Progress has been very slow getting the mechanics working smoothly but was finally achieved.
Controlling the movements when using a separate drive motor has so far not been successful.

Conclusion is that using a separate drive motor and controlled by PF switches is even more difficult than mechanical solutions.

See image:
Switch A = power supply

Switch B
Train arrives and pushes PF switch ON which supplies power to Switch C

At same time the train starts the reverser unit which has one trip arm with 72:1 reduction.

Switch C
Driven by train reversing unit, with 96:1 reduction to control the direction of the M drive motor.

The switch is operated by a push rod with stops and gives a short dwell period as it changes over.

If I can get it to synchronise the lash up of PF cables will be tided up !!

Suspect the ideal solution would be to use an EV3.

I received one for Xmas 2018 but have only used it once !!!!

Comments / ideas welcome.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Doug72

[doug72]

Update:-

Will now use EV3 motor to run this module, extra EV3 medium motor arrived today and will replace the PF M motor used previously on a failed attempt to time & sync the module.
Due the large size unable to fit a Large servo motor as it would foul the swing arm counterweight.

Train reverser from my Gantry Crane GBC Train module will be used which has a touch sensor to start the program and an EV3 medium motor to operated the reverser trip along with a cam to stop the train motor as it docks in the reverser unit.