Licensed Themes VS Original Themes

[Lego David]

51 minutes ago, MAB said:

when viewed through adult eyes.

It's not like that. My 7-year old brother (my youngest brother) looks at them with disgust, and when I show him the old ones, he loves them. It's not like those old commercials wouldn't appeal to today's kids, it's just LEGO getting lazy and putting a smaller budget in them. Same with the LEGO sets. My little brother loved Nexo Knights, and now that it's over, he would just spend his money on old Bionicle sets rather than the new sets. I know this is weird for a 7-year old, but it's true. Me and my little brothers have long been done with the new sets. Weather it's me or my youngest brother, we both know that the new sets are trash compared to the old ones. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Lego David

[Aanchir]

10 hours ago, Lego David said:

It's not like that. My 7-year old brother (my youngest brother) looks at them with disgust, and when I show him the old ones, he loves them. It's not like those old commercials wouldn't appeal to today's kids, it's just LEGO getting lazy and putting a smaller budget in them. Same with the LEGO sets. My little brother loved Nexo Knights, and now that it's over, he would just spend his money on old Bionicle sets rather than the new sets. I know this is weird for a 7-year old, but it's true. Me and my little brothers have long been done with the new sets. Weather it's me or my youngest brother, we both know that the new sets are trash compared to the old ones. 

If your youngest brother loved Nexo Knights, which only came out three years ago and has been gone for less than a year, it seems downright ridiculous to generalize “new sets” as “trash”. That would be like saying that new music is trash because a radio station played three new songs you loved and then one you hated.

And of those Ninjago commercials you shared, it’s laughable that you think the second one showed less effort. Much bigger shooting location, several child actors filmed in live action, and effects that had to be spliced together with real-time, live action footage? Having worked on toy photography at Hasbro, I can tell you in a heartbeat that lifestyle shoots with several real models on camera at once tend to involve much more time, planning, editing, and reshoots than shots of the toy by itself or with a solitary hand model manipulating it. And my colleagues working in video assured me that their work is the same way: bigger shoots with more people means much greater complexity.

[Lego David]

6 hours ago, Aanchir said:

 If your youngest brother loved Nexo Knights, which only came out three years ago and has been gone for less than a year, it seems downright ridiculous to generalize “new sets” as “trash”

Nexo Knights and Ninjago were the only themes we were still buying. Now, that Nexo Knights is gone, we are only left with Ninjago. While we do occasionally get Ninjago sets, other then that all the other sets are trash. Taking your example with the radio it would rather be like this:

The radio played a lot of songs, from which only one I like, and hated all the others. So, with that, I can call it trash. The only set of 2018 that I thought was worth buying was the Bugatti Chiron. And so far, the only set of 2019 that I think is truly worth buying is the Monastery of Spinjutzu. Other then that, no other new sets either don't interest me, either I absolutely hate them.

 

6 hours ago, Aanchir said:

And of those Ninjago commercials you shared, it’s laughable that you think the second one showed less effort. Much bigger shooting location, several child actors filmed in live action, and effects that had to be spliced together with real-time, live action footage? Having worked on toy photography at Hasbro, I can tell you in a heartbeat that lifestyle shoots with several real models on camera at once tend to involve much more time, planning, editing, and reshoots than shots of the toy by itself or with a solitary hand model manipulating it. And my colleagues working in video assured me that their work is the same way: bigger shoots with more people means much greater complexity.

I do not care weather it has more work or not. The 2011 was so much better then the 2017 one. The 2011 one had great music and an amazing background. The 2017 one just shows some random kids playing. And if you look at the 2018+ ones (which for some reason I couldn't find on YT) they are so ridiculous. Just a man with a weird voice says "Oh no!" In such a stupid way. When you compare that with the old ones, the voiceing was almost perfect. I don't care how much work thay have put... as long as they are as ridiculous as they are now I hate them. 

Now, just as a side question, what side do  you stand on? I can clearly tell that you are more into original themes!

[Aanchir]

12 hours ago, Lego David said:

Now, just as a side question, what side do  you stand on? I can clearly tell that you are more into original themes!

Yeah, definitely! I buy licensed sets on occasion, but besides the LEGO Movie themes, I generally don't tend to collect them with any kind of regularity. I used to be an avid LEGO Star Wars collector but that stopped probably around a dozen years ago, and since then I've only gotten a few Star Wars sets (mostly buildable figures).

That said, I feel like it'd be pretty arrogant to dismiss anything I don't personally like/want as "garbage". There are lots of sets and themes (licensed and non-licensed alike) that I have no interest in whatsoever, but that I still think are cleverly designed… just as there have been ad campaigns that clearly aren't aimed at me that I still find cool or impressive in their own right. I've also learned that a lot of the time, ad campaigns that seemed forgettable or even slightly cringeworthy to me as a kid (such as the Toa Inika commercial with its decidedly non-Bionicle-looking bunkers and chain link fences) were in fact important and memorable to many other people, even those who enjoyed the same sets and themes I did.

One of the things I love about the direction LEGO has come is that it feels like its audience is becoming steadily more diverse, not just in terms of demographics but also interests. It brings a whole lot more perspectives to the AFOL community than there used to be back when stuff like Bionicle or Ninjago was typically spoken of with the same degree of scorn and derision as Jack Stone, Galidor, or Clikits. But with that diversification there has to be an understanding that not everybody is going to enjoy the same things for the same reasons, and that often even the sets and themes I like most aren't strictly designed or marketed with customers like me in mind.

Honestly, if any LEGO set is ever upsetting enough to you to engender feelings as strong as hate, then I think you might be taking this hobby quite a bit too seriously and might need to take some time to evaluate whether you'd be happier not paying so much attention to LEGO news and discussion to begin with. I mean, these are toys we're talking about.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Aanchir

[Lego David]

1 minute ago, Aanchir said:

Honestly, if any LEGO set is ever upsetting enough to you to engender feelings as strong as hate, then I think you might be taking this hobby quite a bit too seriously. I mean, these are toys we're talking about.

They are toys, but toys which have gotten worse over the time. The reason I call them "trash" is because most of them are just overpriced cash-gubs for LEGO to get quick money. Again, not all pf them. There are some which I actually really like, such as the Technic Bugatti Chiron. But sadly, as I said, good sets like this start to appear rarely. Back in the early 2000's LEGO only produced about 300 sets per year. Now, they produce about 800 sets per year. And I feel like most of those 800 sets are just rushed and don't really have much quality. I think somebody must remind them that quality is better then quantity. I understand the need of more sets per year, but if they just decresed the amont of sets they make just a little bit and focus more on the quality, then I would most likely have no reason to complain. 

If you still think LEGO is good, It's fine. But In my opinion, they have 100% gotten worse over the past five years.

 

[icm]

"Half of my advertising dollars are wasted," said the marketing executive. "The only problem is, I don't know which half."  I think many people on this forum would agree that the sheer number of sets released each year is bewildering, and that a large portion are pretty mediocre - so wouldn't it be better if Lego just focused on quality instead of quantity, and made fewer, better, sets?  The problem is that one AFOL's really good, well-made set is another AFOL's overpriced cash grab.  For example, you really like the Bugatti.  A lot of Technic gearheads would tell you in great detail why it's an overpriced trashy cash grab.  You probably think the Overwatch line is an overpriced cash grab; I mostly agree, except that I think the spaceships are pretty cool.  There's a lot of diversity in what people on this forum do and don't like, so I hesitate to make value judgments about the way Lego is going as a company except in my own personal opinion.  That said, by all means keep explaining why you don't like the choices the company has made in 2018 and 2019.  These kinds of conversations are valuable so that we can all hear each other's perspectives on the product, and some of what we talk about might even make its way into design/pricing/marketing decisions by the company.

[Aanchir]

53 minutes ago, icm said:

"Half of my advertising dollars are wasted," said the marketing executive. "The only problem is, I don't know which half."  I think many people on this forum would agree that the sheer number of sets released each year is bewildering, and that a large portion are pretty mediocre - so wouldn't it be better if Lego just focused on quality instead of quantity, and made fewer, better, sets?  The problem is that one AFOL's really good, well-made set is another AFOL's overpriced cash grab.  For example, you really like the Bugatti.  A lot of Technic gearheads would tell you in great detail why it's an overpriced trashy cash grab.  You probably think the Overwatch line is an overpriced cash grab; I mostly agree, except that I think the spaceships are pretty cool.  There's a lot of diversity in what people on this forum do and don't like, so I hesitate to make value judgments about the way Lego is going as a company except in my own personal opinion.  That said, by all means keep explaining why you don't like the choices the company has made in 2018 and 2019.  These kinds of conversations are valuable so that we can all hear each other's perspectives on the product, and some of what we talk about might even make its way into design/pricing/marketing decisions by the company.

This. I think a lot of people like to assume LEGO would do much, much better if they just made more of the sets they liked and fewer of the ones they didn't, but that will obviously vary from person to person. And one person's idea of what qualifies as "overpriced" will be different from another person's.

Like, I take it you thought things were better in 2011–2012? But back then, a $10 Ninjago spinner set only had between 19 and 26 pieces, and a $20 spinner two-pack had between 57 and 73 pieces. This year a $10 Ninjago spinner set has 97 to 117 pieces, and a $20 two-pack has between 208 and 227 pieces. Back in 2012, the Epic Dragon Battle set had 915 pieces for $120, this year the Ultra Dragon set has 951 pieces for $85. In the first wave of 2011, the Spinjitzu Dojo set had 373 pieces for $50 and Garmadon's Dark Fortress had 518 pieces for $70. This year, the Monastery of Spinjitzu has 1070 pieces for $80. That's all without adjusting any of those older prices for inflation. And you think TODAY'S sets are overpriced cash-grabs?

[ShaydDeGrai]

On January 18, 2019 at 5:20 PM, MAB said:

I can think of plenty of small non-licensed sets that wouldn't be much without the minfigures too...

I never claimed this "problem" was unique to licensed themes, simply more prevalent there

On January 18, 2019 at 5:20 PM, MAB said:

Is this:

really any better than this:

 

While very similar and theme and design I will grant you, the big difference I see between these two is that the LOTR set costs 50% more ($30 vs. $20) 

A more apples-to-apples comparison (price wise) for these same themes/waves might be to look at 6918:

A $10 stocking stuffer (Price per Piece 9.6c) that features a water wheel driven automatic hammer (hammer actually pound on anvil as you turn the water wheel) and forge.

OR,  for 30% more ($13 msrp) you can get 20% fewer parts (PPP 15.7c) and opt for 9469:

These two kits were the low-end price point for their respective waves when they came out (not counting poly-bags and promotional freebies).

In the grand scheme of things I think a cart is a bit better than some of the "minifigure support" builds that have come out from time to time; but I think it's an overpriced cart and, even for a ~60 part build,  the build experience and play factor afterwards is a little "blah".  The forge from #6918 doesn't look like much (how much can you expect from a small set?) but it has a cleverness about it than made it more interesting (at least for me) and, again, was only 2/3 the price of the LOTR cart.

And now for something completely different:

On the issue of "bad" licensed properties, I'd just like to say that _sometimes_ you get good kits that TLG might not otherwise  market if it weren't for a license, even if the property in question is a dud.  Case in point being The Lone Ranger.  As a film, I thought it was terrible; I saw it on cable while working on something else and I still felt that I'd wasted two hours of my life - BUT - I really liked the 79108 Stagecoach and the 79111 Constitution train.  I don't really care that they were inspired by a (bad) movie, I just liked the coach and thought it was overdue to get another stream engine design.  Would I have bought them if they'd come out of a generic Western theme and/or train theme? Of course, but there hasn't been a "western" theme in 20 years - licensed themes (such as Lone Ranger and Toy Story), in the mean time, have brought us two trains, some buildings and some army builders (and, if nothing else, kept very useful parts in production for more (non-licensed theme) MOC'ing). 

So, even if you prefer original themes and a licensed property turns out to be a complete bomb, _sometimes_ some good still can come out of it.  (As I recall, I even got a good deal on my stagecoach because the movie was so bad the all tie-in merchandise (including Lego kits) had been moved to the discount bin at one of my local retail haunts just to get rid of it).

 

 

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

I'll definitely agree that saying today sets is garbage is quite crossing the grid line there. It's all different point of views, what icm said pretty much nails it. While Lego David thinks that 2018 and 2019 stuffs is garbage, on the contrary, 2018's sets and stories have been very enjoyable for me which results in a fun year. And 2019 sets looks darn cool with the Lego Movie 2 stuffs. So yeah, I would guess our arguments will always not be completely justifiable.

Coming to commercials, I did say that before 2018 is pretty the golden times due to me liking the style. But like I said, post 2018 stuffs it not that bad if you try to look at it neutrally. I view it as trying to show how kids interact with it (which to think of it more, seems similar to the 80s and 90s commercials) while pre-2018 direction shows on how the sets and play functions are the stars of the show. Still, it's all the matter of perspective and I don't think there's an absolute answer.

Edited January 22, 2019 by JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)

[Lego David]

8 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Like, I take it you thought things were better in 2011–2012? But back then, a $10 Ninjago spinner set only had between 19 and 26 pieces, and a $20 spinner two-pack had between 57 and 73 pieces. This year a $10 Ninjago spinner set has 97 to 117 pieces, and a $20 two-pack has between 208 and 227 pieces. Back in 2012, the Epic Dragon Battle set had 915 pieces for $120, this year the Ultra Dragon set has 951 pieces for $85. In the first wave of 2011, the Spinjitzu Dojo set had 373 pieces for $50 and Garmadon's Dark Fortress had 518 pieces for $70. This year, the Monastery of Spinjitzu has 1070 pieces for $80. That's all without adjusting any of those older prices for inflation. And you think TODAY'S sets are overpriced cash-grabs?

I highly depends on themes. While Ninjago sets might have better prices, it's not the case with all the sets. Compare The New Samurai X Mech which costs 15$ and has 154 pieces with Kai's Blade Cycle from 2012 which is at the exact same price and has 188 pieces. Not only that, but with Kai's Blade Cycle you get a build which feels at the perfect size, when The Samurai Mech feels a bit oversimplified to me.

 

17 minutes ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

In the grand scheme of things I think a cart is a bit better than some of the "minifigure support" builds that have come out from time to time; but I think it's an overpriced cart and, even for a ~60 part build,  the build experience and play factor afterwards is a little "blah".  The forge from #6918 doesn't look like much (how much can you expect from a small set?) but it has a cleverness about it than made it more interesting (at least for me) and, again, was only 2/3 the price of the LOTR cart.

This. Yeah, to be honest I prefer the Kingdoms set a lot more. It's simple, but a fun set.

 

5 minutes ago, JJ Tong (zfogshooterz) said:

Coming to commercials, I did say that before 2018 is pretty the golden times due to me liking the style. But like I said, post 2018 stuffs it not that bad if you try to look at it neutrally. I view it as trying to show how kids interact with it (which to think of it more, seems similar to the 80s and 90s commercials) while pre-2018 direction shows on how the sets and play functions are the stars of the show. Still, it's all the matter of perspective and I don't think there's an absolute answer.

Yeah, I personally prefered the commercials where the functions/play features were showcased rather than those new ones with some random kids playing.

[Johnny1360]

A lot of very well expressed opinions in this thread obviously well thought out and intelligently stated. As I have said before I like both original and licensed themes, having said that though there are many themes I simply don't care for, some of them hugely popular and I won't name them to avoid argument. I just don't buy these and move on to one's I do enjoy, which are plentiful. 

The one thing I don't understand though is why if someone dislikes mostly everything LEGO  is putting out and thinks the whole company stinks and disagrees with most people's opinion on the matter, why would they even waste thier money on LEGO or spend time on this forum. Just quit the hobby and move on, that is what I would do. 

[Lego David]

9 hours ago, Johnny1360 said:

The one thing I don't understand though is why if someone dislikes mostly everything LEGO  is putting out and thinks the whole company stinks and disagrees with most people's opinion on the matter, why would they even waste thier money on LEGO or spend time on this forum. Just quit the hobby and move on, that is what I would do

Although I have quit with buying the new sets, I have discovered something new: OLD LEGO. I just look at those old themes and say "I want them all". Without this problem, I would have probably never discovered this. Sets that either I have mist on, or where made before I was even born, I want them all. So obiously my LEGO hobby still lives. And since I can get old sets from the 2nd market a lot cheaper than the new LEGO sets.... What is the point of buying the new sets? A year or two ago I almost quit LEGO. But the discovery of old LEGO, the beauty of LEGO used to be, kept me into it.

[icm]

Just be patient.  Buy all the old sets you like for now, and I guarantee that in another few years there will be another cluster of original themes that you like just as much as the original themes between 2007 and 2014. 

When I was a kid, all I wanted was a Lego space shuttle that could carry a couple of minifigures and a satellite, had the external tank and solid rocket boosters, and looked reasonably good.  But I was too young to get the 1995 model, even though it was still in the catalogs when I was introduced to Lego, and the 1998 model was terrible, and the 2003 model was too big and didn't come with the boosters or launch pad.  I was worried that Lego would never release a space shuttle again.  Then seven years later! (2010) Lego released the amazing Shuttle Adventure, and there's been a steady sequence of space shuttles ever since: two in 2011, two in 2015, one in 2017, one in 2018, three in 2019 already (sort of) and one or two more later this year!  From my perspective as a kid when I thought Lego was going down the tubes, this is an embarrassment of riches.  

[MAB]

^ Similarly, I used to like licensed sets a lot when LOTR and The Hobbit were being produced. These days, there is not so much for me in licensed. SW is OK for the Original Trilogy stuff, but I'm not really into the new movies. I'm not really into SH, aside from maybe a few variants of the main well-known characters. Before that I was more into unlicensed, when they were doing Castle. But of course, none of this is licensed vs unlicensed. It is theme vs theme. I have no interest in Speed Champions. However, that doesn't cloud my interest in other licensed properties. I'm glad they make them too, as people that like cars and lego have something (small) to buy. Similarly, I'm also glad they make vehicles in City sets, as people that want to play everyday life have something for them, which here are unlicensed. Given the wide range of subjects covered in Creator and City sets,  I am always surprised when people cannot find anything of interest in new LEGO, preferring instead the old pre-licensed sets. Although I can understand the draw of nostalgia for old sets.

 

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

as people that like cars and lego have something (small) to buy.

Before they had LEGO Racers. Gosh, this theme was miles better than Speed Champions. I'd gladly get rid of Speed Champions in return for Racers. And don't try to argue here: Racers lasted for 11 years. In this time, it had tons on subthemes, so any racing fan would be pleased. No matter if you were into real cars or Hot-Wheels-Style cars, this theme had it all. Compare this with Speed Champions, which only has one subtheme, and lacks any other type of racing.

[Digger of Bricks]

Just now, Lego David said:

Before they had LEGO Racers. Gosh, this theme was miles better than Speed Champions. I'd gladly get rid of Speed Champions in return for Racers. And don't try to argue here: Racers lasted for 11 years. In this time, it had tons on subthemes, so any racing fan would be pleased. No matter if you were into real cars or Hot-Wheels-Style cars, this theme had it all. Compare this with Speed Champions, which only has one subtheme, and lacks any other type of racing.

I'd gladly welcome the return of the Racers theme, but not at the expense of Speed Champions, as I'd rather wish to see that become a subtheme under a much broader Racers umbrella theme. Actually, that's what we need more of nowadays: UMBRELLA THEMES.

[JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I'd gladly welcome the return of the Racers theme, but not at the expense of Speed Champions, as I'd rather wish to see that become a subtheme under a much broader Racers umbrella theme. Actually, that's what we need more of nowadays: UMBRELLA THEMES.

Agreed. Although I don't collect Speed Champions, I'll admit that it's a pretty cool theme. And would be cooler indeed if it's under the Racers banner. Racers did have a dip in licensed stuffs too. It should be possible for licensed cars like speed champions and illegal racing stuff and etc to coexist there. I mean city already had a racing subline.

Edited January 23, 2019 by JJ Tong (zfogshooterz)

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

Before they had LEGO Racers. Gosh, this theme was miles better than Speed Champions. I'd gladly get rid of Speed Champions in return for Racers. And don't try to argue here: Racers lasted for 11 years. In this time, it had tons on subthemes, so any racing fan would be pleased. No matter if you were into real cars or Hot-Wheels-Style cars, this theme had it all. Compare this with Speed Champions, which only has one subtheme, and lacks any other type of racing.

 

Racers did change themes with time. Anything lasting a long time has to change, otherwise it becomes stale and boring. I don't mind Speed Champions at all, but chances are it will evolve then give way to another car theme. They could have called it Racers: Speed Champions, and made it part of the overall Racers umbrella, to use the word from above. As far as I can tell, the current Speed Champions is great for anyone into fairly realistic performance cars - and that will include both LEGO fans and non-LEGO fans interested in displaying the licensed brands. And that is partly what the licenses do, bring in people that might not traditionally buy LEGO.

 

[Lego David]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I'd gladly welcome the return of the Racers theme, but not at the expense of Speed Champions, as I'd rather wish to see that become a subtheme under a much broader Racers umbrella theme. Actually, that's what we need more of nowadays: UMBRELLA THEMES.

This

 

14 minutes ago, JJ Tong (zfogshooterz) said:

Agreed. Although I don't collect Speed Champions, I'll admit that it's a pretty cool theme. And would be cooler indeed if it's under the Racers banner. Racers did have a dip in licensed stuffs too. It should be possible for licensed cars like speed champions and illegal racing stuff and etc to coexist there. I mean city already had a racing subline.

And this. Speed Champions should be a subtheme of Racers. The Racers theme itself had the Ferrari subtheme, which was not very different from Speed Champions (except the fact that it was only based on Ferrari, maybe). Those two themes could co-exist in a perfect way.

4 minutes ago, MAB said:

Racers did change themes with time. Anything lasting a long time has to change, otherwise it becomes stale and boring. I don't mind Speed Champions at all, but chances are it will evolve then give way to another car theme. They could have called it Racers: Speed Champions, and made it part of the overall Racers umbrella, to use the word from above. As far as I can tell, the current Speed Champions is great for anyone into fairly realistic performance cars - and that will include both LEGO fans and non-LEGO fans interested in displaying the licensed brands. And that is partly what the licenses do, bring in people that might not traditionally buy LEGO.

And I agree with this too.

[danth]

On 1/22/2019 at 12:55 PM, Johnny1360 said:

The one thing I don't understand though is why if someone dislikes mostly everything LEGO  is putting out and thinks the whole company stinks and disagrees with most people's opinion on the matter, why would they even waste thier money on LEGO or spend time on this forum. Just quit the hobby and move on, that is what I would do. 

But here you are complaining about other people voicing different opinions, instead of moving on.

[Aanchir]

11 hours ago, Digger of Bricks said:

I'd gladly welcome the return of the Racers theme, but not at the expense of Speed Champions, as I'd rather wish to see that become a subtheme under a much broader Racers umbrella theme. Actually, that's what we need more of nowadays: UMBRELLA THEMES.

This perspective is a little surprising to me, considering how often I see people complaining about the possibility that big and highly varied themes like City, Friends, and Ninjago are getting in the way of smaller and shorter-lived themes.

Like, right now, as I brought up in a Racers related thread in the Special Themes subforum, most of the types of non-licensed sets that used to show up in the Racers theme now show up in other themes that you might consider "umbrella themes": realistic minifig-scale vehicles tend to show up in City, more futuristic/fantasy-influenced street vehicles tend to show up in Ninjago, brick-built vehicles at more varied scales tend to show up in Creator, and Technic-based vehicles tend to show up in Technic. I suspect all these sets are a lot more successful in these themes with other sets like them than they were in the Racers theme, considering its lack of a consistent scale or even a consistent setting/story framework. After all, most of these themes have had a stronger record as best-sellers than Racers ever was.

And why take my word for it? Take a look at Brickset, where many AFOLs like us log their collections. Obviously the Brickset userbase is just a small and not especially representative sample of the overall audience for LEGO sets, but it still often gives a decent enough a taste of what sets people are buying. The non-licensed Racers set owned by the most Brickset users is 8641 Flame Glider, owned by 1732 Brickset users, and the most widely owned at minifig scale is 4585 Nitro Pulverizer, owned by 1429 Brickset users.

Contrast with City: 60052 Race Car is owned by 7662 Brickset users, 60055 Monster Truck by 5855 users, 60113 Rally Car by 4769 users, 60025 Grand Prix Truck by 4613 users, 60148 ATV Race Team by 3621 users, 60146 Stunt Truck by 3121 Brickset users, 30314 Go-Kart Racer by 2736 users, etc.

Likewise, in Ninjago's case, 9441 Kai's Blade Cycle is owned by 4962 Brickset users, 2259 Skull Motorbike by 3927 users, 9444 Cole's Tread Assault by 2829 users, 70722 OverBorg Attack by 2288 users, Fangpyre Truck Ambush by 2259 users, 70600 Ninja Bike Chase by 1952 users, 70755 Jungle Raider by 1933 users, etc.

In the Creator theme, 6743 Street Speeder is owned by 4877 Brickset users, 31006 Highway Speedster by 4047 users, 31017 Sunset Speeder by 3743 users, 31027 Blue Racer by 3145 users, 5867 Super Speedster by 3035 users, 4939 Cool Cars by 3032 users, 6910 Mini Sports Car by 2967 users, etc. In this case, even the age of the sets can be pretty easily dismissed as a factor, as several of these sets were released when the Racers theme itself was still ongoing!

And as for Technic? 42039 24 Hours Race Car is owned by 4877 Brickset users, 42000 Grand Prix Racer by 4765 users, 42036 Street Motorcycle by 3790 users, 42065 RC Tracked Racer by 3778 users, 42026 Black Champion Racer by 2967 users, 42027 Desert Racer by 2812 users, 42011 Race Car by 2768 users, etc.

Why lump all racing-related sets together in one disjointed theme where a lot of the sets are hardly compatible with one another, when the same types of sets seem vastly more successful when grouped together with sets more closely related in scale, building style, and/or degree of fantasy vs. realism? Particularly when rather than abandoning their roots, this approach is a good example of the LEGO Group doing exactly the opposite. Themes like Town, Basic, and Technic were the home to racing car sets for many decades before "LEGO Racers" even existed.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Aanchir
Fixed some bad link formatting

[TeriXeri]

12 hours ago, Lego David said:

Before they had LEGO Racers. Gosh, this theme was miles better than Speed Champions. I'd gladly get rid of Speed Champions in return for Racers. And don't try to argue here: Racers lasted for 11 years. In this time, it had tons on subthemes, so any racing fan would be pleased. No matter if you were into real cars or Hot-Wheels-Style cars, this theme had it all. Compare this with Speed Champions, which only has one subtheme, and lacks any other type of racing.

Many of the elements Racers had have been covered by other themes: Technic, Creator, Mighty Micros, DC/Marvel, City , Friends over the years, not just strictly Speed Champions.

Chima, Ninjago, Spider-Man,Batman and even Nexo Knights have had multiple Motorcycles.

Buggies, Trucks, SUVs also been covered by a large number of themes.

Technic and Creator(Expert) vehicles have come in all sorts of sizes, from polybags and microscale all the way up to large display models.

2018 even had a RC batmobile, and a Friends go-kart subtheme.

Since 2013, Technic has had 2 pullback motor smaller sets per year, even ongoing for 2019.

Remote Control cars are still ongoing, with a technic set for 2019.

Really the only thing I see truly unique to the Racers theme was a racetrack like this:

And  I say that from a pretty neutral standpoint, I have no particular nostalgia for 2001-2015 sets as I didn't follow LEGO during that time, I'm just mostly comparing Racers theme to the 2012-2019 sets.

Edited January 24, 2019 by TeriXeri

[Johnny1360]

8 hours ago, danth said:

But here you are complaining about other people voicing different opinions, instead of moving on.

No complaints from me, I am quite enjoying my hobby and reading every one's opinion, as I clearly stated in the part of my post you chose not to quote. 

[Vindicare]

17 hours ago, Lego David said:

Before they had LEGO Racers. Gosh, this theme was miles better than Speed Champions. I'd gladly get rid of Speed Champions in return for Racers. And don't try to argue here: Racers lasted for 11 years. In this time, it had tons on subthemes, so any racing fan would be pleased. No matter if you were into real cars or Hot-Wheels-Style cars, this theme had it all. Compare this with Speed Champions, which only has one subtheme, and lacks any other type of racing.

While Speed Champions doesn’t have sub themes, they have a variety of racing types. Without looking at their full line up, we’ve had an F1 car, a few Le Mans cars, some GT cars, regular super cars. This year we have a NASCAR inspired one & the Mini two pack with off road rally cars. We just don’t have the diecast inspired ones. 

[Lego David]

7 hours ago, Aanchir said:

This perspective is a little surprising to me, considering how often I see people complaining about the possibility that big and highly varied themes like City, Friends, and Ninjago are getting in the way of smaller and shorter-lived themes.

Like, right now, as I brought up in a Racers related thread in the Special Themes subforum, most of the types of non-licensed sets that used to show up in the Racers theme now show up in other themes that you might consider "umbrella themes": realistic minifig-scale vehicles tend to show up in City, more futuristic/fantasy-influenced street vehicles tend to show up in Ninjago, brick-built vehicles at more varied scales tend to show up in Creator, and Technic-based vehicles tend to show up in Technic. I suspect all these sets are a lot more successful in these themes with other sets like them than they were in the Racers theme, considering its lack of a consistent scale or even a consistent setting/story framework. After all, most of these themes have had a stronger record as best-sellers than Racers ever was.

And why take my word for it? Take a look at Brickset, where many AFOLs like us log their collections. Obviously the Brickset userbase is just a small and not especially representative sample of the overall audience for LEGO sets, but it still often gives a decent enough a taste of what sets people are buying. The non-licensed Racers set owned by the most Brickset users is 8641 Flame Glider, owned by 1732 Brickset users, and the most widely owned at minifig scale is 4585 Nitro Pulverizer, owned by 1429 Brickset users.

Contrast with City: 60052 Race Car is owned by 7662 Brickset users, 60055 Monster Truck by 5855 users, 60113 Rally Car by 4769 users, 60025 Grand Prix Truck by 4613 users, 60148 ATV Race Team by 3621 users, 60146 Stunt Truck by 3121 Brickset users, 30314 Go-Kart Racer by 2736 users, etc.

Likewise, in Ninjago's case, 9441 Kai's Blade Cycle is owned by 4962 Brickset users, 2259 Skull Motorbike by 3927 users, 9444 Cole's Tread Assault by 2829 users, 70722 OverBorg Attack by 2288 users, Fangpyre Truck Ambush by 2259 users, 70600 Ninja Bike Chase by 1952 users, 70755 Jungle Raider by 1933 users, etc.

In the Creator theme, 6743 Street Speeder is owned by 4877 Brickset users, 31006 Highway Speedster by 4047 users, 31017 Sunset Speeder by 3743 users, 31027 Blue Racer by 3145 users, 5867 Super Speedster by 3035 users, 4939 Cool Cars by 3032 users, 6910 Mini Sports Car by 2967 users, etc. In this case, even the age of the sets can be pretty easily dismissed as a factor, as several of these sets were released when the Racers theme itself was still ongoing!

And as for Technic? 42039 24 Hours Race Car is owned by 4877 Brickset users, 42000 Grand Prix Racer by 4765 users, 42036 Street Motorcycle by 3790 users, 42065 RC Tracked Racer by 3778 users, 42026 Black Champion Racer by 2967 users, 42027 Desert Racer by 2812 users, 42011 Race Car by 2768 users, etc.

Why lump all racing-related sets together in one disjointed theme where a lot of the sets are hardly compatible with one another, when the same types of sets seem vastly more successful when grouped together with sets more closely related in scale, building style, and/or degree of fantasy vs. realism? Particularly when rather than abandoning their roots, this approach is a good example of the LEGO Group doing exactly the opposite. Themes like Town, Basic, and Technic were the home to racing car sets for many decades before "LEGO Racers" even existed.

I don't care. I just want Racers in its authentic form back. These old Racers sets look a lot cooler than any supposed Race car we got recently. Those sets look so cool that I fell in love with them at first sight and set The  goal to collect as many from them as possible. 

I don't care about Speed Champions or Techinc very much. I just want them all to be together in one huge theme. Also, the reason so few people own them on Brickset is because the whole theme itself is very underrated.