MOC - Garden Toy Train - 12-wide

[Paperinik77pk]

Hi all, 

some days ago I was watching some videos of LGB G-Gauge trains running in the garden. They're big and very well done...and really out of budget for me. So I wondered if I could replicate such a big locomotive using Lego. And trying to be cheap!!! 

A big train like that needs:

• an XXL PF Motor;
• a simple PF battery box;
• a PF receiver;
• a PF remote control.

All in all we're at about 50  Euros from Lego Shop.

• 4 large flanged wheels from Lego or BBB (3 Euros each - 12 Euros) - our total increases to, let's say, 65 euros.

Then, it's time to think about a body - it must be as simple as possible, sturdy, and without too many special parts. Since I was not particularly inspired (in these days I'm playing a lot with the new Lego Boost set) , I used a well known Lego model. 

Yes, it is what is seems - a 7720 multiplied by 2 - 32 studs long, 12 studs wide. Even the Voltage is doubled .  This was painted blue, otherwise the two red "lights" would disappear.

Since track is now quite small - I chose to draw only one central buffer, suggesting this is a narrow gauge model. As you can see it is simple as it can be. I think I can try to stay below the 100 euros limit. 

Then, this weekend I began to prepare the mock-up to test how heavy it could be, if everything fits inside and so on. Here below you can see the yet unfinished 7720 on steroids .

In this photo I used a 45mm track from G-gauge - it is actually a part of LGB track. This big girl will be able to travel on both tracks.

Reasoning in studs, the L-gauge puts 4 studs between the wheels, while the G-gauge requires exactly 5 studs. Since wheels will be mounted internally respect to the fake suspensions, both gauges can be achieved by adding or removing two half Technic bushes between the wheels (one per side, so 4 studs + 0.5 stud + 0.5 stud =5 studs). 

But we want to be cheap - and LGB track are not - so we'll keep the standard Lego track.

You cannot see it from the photos, but the black part is all made by 3x2 and 4x2 parts - too small - but I had only those around. 

Inter-axle is 15 studs - BBB wheels can handle the R40 radius, but this is an heavy locomotive, so I think I'll shorten the inter-axle to 13 studs.

Now I'm studying how to transmit power to the wheels - I was tempted to use a chain-driven system based on lego 3711 parts, but it costs a lot and I'm not sure how much weight and torque it can handle. I'll end using the Lego 32702 gears - they seem right and are cheap enough.

Let's see how this develops!!! I personally am very curious to see it in action!

Ciao!

Davide

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[Capparezza]

What the hell.... this thing is HUGE! And chain driven as well? Wow. Looking forward to more pics, maybe some of the innards as well when they are ready.

[Paperinik77pk]

19 hours ago, Capparezza said:

What the hell.... this thing is HUGE! And chain driven as well? Wow. Looking forward to more pics, maybe some of the innards as well when they are ready.

Yes, she's a big lady  - as far as I could see from my old catalogs, the Marklin E69 in G gauge is 23cm long (buffers included) while this one is over 27. I can do it to fit the 23cm lenght, but I like the idea of "doubling" all the measures of a standard Lego train .

It is not yet chain driven  - I have too many 3711 parts to test it properly , so I found a very cheap auction and i  bought some more. The idea is to connect the two axles with a chain, and then connect the motor to one axle with another chain. Since it is a double-gauge locomotive, I can only use the available space between the two wheels to arrange the transmission. 

Yesterday I put a very simple transmission made with gears (only on one axle) and it moves well. It is nice to see it going! It is a bit heavy, but I think I can make it lighter, since now I can separate the body from chassis.

If this evening I have some time I'll make (and show) some updated photos 

[Paperinik77pk]

Hi all, I just redraw all the chassis - focusing  on the chain drive system. I still do not know if it will work, but I think it could handle the big lady. I can convert this system to a standard transission, if needed.

The two chains will connect:

• the two axles together;
• one of the axles (right side of the picture) to the transmission.

I did not draw the chains since on LDD is possible, but it is really a long work. As you can see I left some space near the fake suspensions, so I can change the wheelbase according to the curves diameter. For the moment it is set on standard Lego radius.

Having space inside the model is not bad - center of gravity can be lower and there's at least a double choice on the battery box mounting position .

Now the body can be detached from the chassis, this means you can have more than one body for the same base.

See you next time!

Davide

 

[dr_spock]

Neat, will you be building a permanent outdoor track layout?  LGB track is expensive.  I wonder if hand laying your own track would be cheaper? 

 

[Capparezza]

That's looking good, even if I don't get what all the parts are for :D The idea of the changeable top is cool.

[Paperinik77pk]

3 hours ago, dr_spock said:

Neat, will you be building a permanent outdoor track layout?  LGB track is expensive.  I wonder if hand laying your own track would be cheaper? 

 

Thank you!!!

Since I do not have a garden, I will use my father's and stepfather's gardens - so it won't be permanent.  It is my dream to have a permanent layout in my own garden - let's see - we're searching a new house right now.

I have retrieved from an old - now closed - hobby train model association a lot of G-gauge hand-made track, but I have to restore it since it's very old. I have some points too. it really was a lucky find! The LGB track shown in the first photo was found in an old garage - I don't know where the rest of track (and rolling stock) is.

For the moment I will use my normal PF Lego track indoor, and probably buy some cheap Chinese track (Ausini) for outdoor operation, so if it breaks up - I can easily and cheapily replace it.

34 minutes ago, Capparezza said:

That's looking good, even if I don't get what all the parts are for :D The idea of the changeable top is cool.

Thanks!!!

From pictures is hard to tell, you are right - as soon as the chain parts arrive, I will make a detailed photoshoot and a video - it is simpler than it looks - and it can be made a lot simpler in my opinion. Yesterday I started to modify the  body to make it lighter (I used 1-stud wide  bricks instead of 2-wide) - I hope it will be strong enough!!! 

[3797]

On 18.3.2018 at 10:38 PM, Paperinik77pk said:

Hi all, 

some days ago I was watching some videos of LGB G-Gauge trains running in the garden. They're big and very well done...and really out of budget for me. So I wondered if I could replicate such a big locomotive using Lego. And trying to be cheap!!! 

I've been in the same situation. In the early 90's I tried to use the parts from my Metroliner for a bigger train and back in 2012 I ended up getting a few cheap (incomplete) Playmobil locomotives for my parent's garden. They cost me less than 40€ each. I modded them with real RC parts and am pretty happy with the result. With LEGO I would be worried about losing bricks or my parents complaining about them getting torn to bits by the lawnmower. 

If you get around to it, then please feel free to post a video.

 

[Paperinik77pk]

 

1 hour ago, 3797 said:

I've been in the same situation. In the early 90's I tried to use the parts from my Metroliner for a bigger train and back in 2012 I ended up getting a few cheap (incomplete) Playmobil locomotives for my parent's garden. They cost me less than 40€ each. I modded them with real RC parts and am pretty happy with the result. With LEGO I would be worried about losing bricks or my parents complaining about them getting torn to bits by the lawnmower. 

If you get around to it, then please feel free to post a video.

 

Hi! It is a bit I've this idea of the Garden Railway - since the good season is coming I told myself "why not"  ? I understand your fear...losing parts is one of the main reasons why I'm keeping that basic and "childish" way to build . One of the inspirations I got, apart the Marklin "1" series, comes from PIKO - MyTrain series in H0 scale - which is specifically made for children, therefore nice locomotives, simple design, reduced details and vivid colors .

The video is one of the main things I want to do, I just bought an SQ11 small camera for this purpose - putting it in the cabin should result in a nice "driver's view" 

BTW also G-Gauge Playmobil locomotives were veeeery nice!!!

Edited March 21, 2018 by Paperinik77pk

[3797]

If you don't want to use G scale track, then I'd use two regular LEGO train motors and put the large BBB wheels on the sides as decorative pieces that can hide the train motors. That's pretty much how I "motorized" my 8880 Technic Supercar when I was a kid.

When I realized that LEGO didn't want to sell me another Creator Expert train, I decided to spend a couple thousand Euros elsewhere. Beware! Spoiler:

Spoiler

 

[Paperinik77pk]

Great stuff, even if it is not Lego it is a pleasure to see it in a real garden! 

The idea to use real train motors is not bad at all, I know they can easily handle also BBB wheels - my doubt is how much torque they have.

This is what I tried yesterday - I had to use the little chains of my vintage Technic forklift to power at least one axle. I simplified the transmission, and I think this is  a good way to follow. The central gear can move both axles with one chain. Battery is now mounted on its side,and not in vertical. This is nice since I'm lowering the center of weight and I can have a flatter chassis (and more free design on bodies). The battery can be turned on by the bottom of the locomotive, there is space to activate it by using the most economic switching device - the finger 

I'm not satisfied by the rigidity of the chassis - it is too flexible and the battery  and motor weight tend to bend it a bit . I must achieve more rigidity and a better mounting solution for the motor...this will be a task for Technic bricks.

There is room for the chain drive between the chassis and the wheels -  but I'd lose the double gauge feature, so it is not good.

Drawing is simple...reality is much worse!!! 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Paperinik77pk

[Paperinik77pk]

Hi all, time for some updates:

The chassis has been completely redesigned (for the fourth time, since it had some problems) and tested. It works, even if at the moment only one axle is driven by the chain (I do not have sufficient chain parts yet).

The XL motor now has a more solid mount, and I tried two different gear ratios. The current setup - photo below -  features two z16 gears (driver and driven).

The other gear ratio is faster, featuring a z24 driver gear. Both setups are smooth and move the locomotive without any effort. I sincerely prefer the slower gear ratio, since this is intended as a narrow-gauge locomotive to cruise around nice landscapes 

By the way, wagons will be quite lighter, but still quite heavy, so a good torque is welcome!!!

 

This chassis is only a mock-up with mixed colors, but starting from this I drew the final version in LDD (.ldd file is available if someone is interested).

Now the parts list is complete, and I can order what I need.

@3797 asked me for a video, some posts ago , here it is: 

It is made with my cell phone - and basic music from YouTube - I'm not very good at video making and editing ... as you can see, the video was made when the locomotive had the z24 driver gear mounted and it goes like a rollercoaster!!!

This is the last rendering with new chassis and removable body installed.

Micro camera has arrived today - I still have to try it, but it perfectly fits inside the cabin! 

Have a nice evening! 

Davide

[Sven J]

Hi Davide,

This is really an interesting project!
As I build MOCs for G-scale track, of course your double-gauge feature fascinates me most. I would love to see your locomotive run on LGB track.
But the removable body is a great idea, too!

However, I don’t really know whether it’s wise to use a chain drive. I once tried it on one of my engines – it was fine when the locomotive was running alone, but always ended up with a broken chain when the engine had to pull some load. Wagons in this scale can be quite heavy!
Finally, I replaced the chain with a gear wheel transmission.

Now I’m waiting for pictures from the "on-board camera“!

Best regards,
Sven

P.S.: Completely off-topic - but at the sight of your nickname, I can't help asking... Have you seen this?
(Says a lifetime Donald Duck fan )

Edited March 24, 2018 by Tenderlok

[Paperinik77pk]

On ‎24‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 10:20 PM, Tenderlok said:

Hi Davide,

This is really an interesting project!
As I build MOCs for G-scale track, of course your double-gauge feature fascinates me most. I would love to see your locomotive run on LGB track.
But the removable body is a great idea, too!

However, I don’t really know whether it’s wise to use a chain drive. I once tried it on one of my engines – it was fine when the locomotive was running alone, but always ended up with a broken chain when the engine had to pull some load. Wagons in this scale can be quite heavy!
Finally, I replaced the chain with a gear wheel transmission.

Now I’m waiting for pictures from the "on-board camera“!

Best regards,
Sven

P.S.: Completely off-topic - but at the sight of your nickname, I can't help asking... Have you seen this?
(Says a lifetime Donald Duck fan )

Hi Sven! Thanks for your kind words!

I would love too to see this big locomotive on 45mm track, but the rails I have are custom made...very old and not modular - threrefore I'll have to cut them in regular sizes, recreate the sleepers, and add joiners - it is a looooooooooooooooooooooooong work! 

So I'll use the standard Lego gauge for the moment  - but I want to keep the possibility to be compliant with 45mm gauge - who knows...maybe one day I'll find someone with a garden railroad and I'll ask him - may I try my Lego train on it? Just imagine the look of his face !!!

About the chain drive - I also imagined it could have some problems - for the moment I tested it pulling some 12v wagons on the track shown in the video - it worked, but being 2wd only - when I reached the load limit - I only had wheels spinning.

I tried to stop the chain driven axle with my fingers - it seems there's a difference on how the chain is mounted - it is hard to explain in words - I'll make some photos to show this behaviour. In one case (chain hooks facing the gear) I can quite stop the axle and the chain is still there, on the other case the chain literally explodes. Let's see - I have a "B plan" for the transmission in case the chain system fails (I find it somehow fascinating - I have to admit it ).

Oh, well - the "X" car of Phantomias is great!!! I Always wanted to create it in Lego Technic!!!

Today, having some free time, I created a second body and a slightly modified chassis with four ladders.

Ok, next one won't be a 7720, I promise! 

[dr_spock]

On 3/21/2018 at 5:04 AM, Paperinik77pk said:

Thank you!!!

Since I do not have a garden, I will use my father's and stepfather's gardens - so it won't be permanent.  It is my dream to have a permanent layout in my own garden - let's see - we're searching a new house right now.

I have retrieved from an old - now closed - hobby train model association a lot of G-gauge hand-made track, but I have to restore it since it's very old. I have some points too. it really was a lucky find! The LGB track shown in the first photo was found in an old garage - I don't know where the rest of track (and rolling stock) is.

For the moment I will use my normal PF Lego track indoor, and probably buy some cheap Chinese track (Ausini) for outdoor operation, so if it breaks up - I can easily and cheapily replace it.

 

That's a great track find. I have a backyard and a crazy idea to hand laid code 250 aluminum rail spaced 38mm L-gauge instead G-gauge 45mm rail spacing or make G-gauge track dual gauge. Not sure which yet since I don't have funding for such a crazy project in the budget.  I'm still dreaming. 

I picked up a SG12 camera earlier this year.  It can fit on and in 6-wide LEGO engines and rolling stock.  Waiting for my LUG's train events so I can try it out.

 

[Paperinik77pk]

10 hours ago, dr_spock said:

That's a great track find. I have a backyard and a crazy idea to hand laid code 250 aluminum rail spaced 38mm L-gauge instead G-gauge 45mm rail spacing or make G-gauge track dual gauge. Not sure which yet since I don't have funding for such a crazy project in the budget.  I'm still dreaming. 

I picked up a SG12 camera earlier this year.  It can fit on and in 6-wide LEGO engines and rolling stock.  Waiting for my LUG's train events so I can try it out.

 

Hi there, your camera seems to have quite the same dimension as mine, which is called SQ11 - a 20 Euros chinese thing found on Amazon (with vintage Sinclair ZX Spectrum look) 

 

It perfectly fits inside the 4x2x3 window frame - I think I'll use it also for "normal" sized trains - it works fine in HD but has a video limit of 5 minutes (then it creates another .avi file and goes on with recording - it must be a memory buffer limit) 

Your project seems great, I also like the idea to have a double gauge layout...but all dreams for the moment.

I have to order parts for the blue locomotive - I've read somewhere that bricklink accepts the parts list directly from LDD - is it true or I'm still dreaming?  

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Wow ...this project is amazing!

Great video and original idea!

The picture with the video camera inside the cap looks promising

[koalayummies]

The sheer size is quite amusing! The video makes it look very fun. Great work, very different from what we normally see around here.

[kieran]

That camera looks very promising

[Hod Carrier]

8 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

I've read somewhere that bricklink accepts the parts list directly from LDD - is it true or I'm still dreaming?  

It’s supposed to but I’ve never found it to work. If there is any single brick in your build that is not correctly described in terms of it’s shape, colour or part number, or if a part you have used does not actually exist, it will throw the whole list out. You may say that this should not happen given that LDD is the official software released by TLG themselves, but it’s all too common in my experience.

If you want to try I believe that Bricklink gives you the option to upload to the website rather than it being an option within LDD. It’s so long ago that I last tried it that I can’t honestly remember all the details.

[Paperinik77pk]

11 hours ago, LEGO Train 12 Volts said:

Wow ...this project is amazing!

Great video and original idea!

The picture with the video camera inside the cap looks promising

 

11 hours ago, koalayummies said:

The sheer size is quite amusing! The video makes it look very fun. Great work, very different from what we normally see around here.

 

11 hours ago, kieran said:

That camera looks very promising

Hi all! Thank you for your kind words!!!

The camera looks promising also to me, I made a video yesterday only to try it and it works fine! For its cost, is more than sufficient - I paid more the 32gb card than the camera!!!

9 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

It’s supposed to but I’ve never found it to work. If there is any single brick in your build that is not correctly described in terms of it’s shape, colour or part number, or if a part you have used does not actually exist, it will throw the whole list out. You may say that this should not happen given that LDD is the official software released by TLG themselves, but it’s all too common in my experience.

If you want to try I believe that Bricklink gives you the option to upload to the website rather than it being an option within LDD. It’s so long ago that I last tried it that I can’t honestly remember all the details.

Hi @Hod Carrier , I just placed the order on Bricklink. I had some problems to understand how it works, but now I'm used to it. The .lxf file was immediately accepted, but I had problems finding some parts in stores, so I had to modify some details in the locomotive to achieve the 100% of available parts (for example, the four 1x1 bricks with clip and some the 2x2 bricks with studs on one side - not available in blue). The chassis (without motor, battery  and wheels) was immediately accepted.

 

And now It's time to make an economic evaluation...

75 Euros for body and chassis parts (including shipping from three different shops), 65 Euros for wheels and motor/battery/receiver, 10 euros for chain (including shipping). In total the blue locomotive set is 150 Euros from all new parts. Already having wheels and electric stuff, I spent 85 Euros in total. So my objective to keep it around 100 Euros is miserably failed  - maybe with used parts it could be a bit better, but I think I could save 10 euros if I'm lucky.

Now it is time to design a two axle wagon - Since it will be 32 studs long (and I'd like to have the wheels more near to the wagon's ends) I think the castering effect study will be again useful! 

 

[Hod Carrier]

3 hours ago, Paperinik77pk said:

I just placed the order on Bricklink. I had some problems to understand how it works, but now I'm used to it. The .lxf file was immediately accepted, but I had problems finding some parts in stores, so I had to modify some details in the locomotive to achieve the 100% of available parts (for example, the four 1x1 bricks with clip and some the 2x2 bricks with studs on one side - not available in blue). The chassis (without motor, battery  and wheels) was immediately accepted.

That’s lucky. I guess your build doesn’t include any of the parts where LDD fails to agree completely with Bricklink.

As well as modifying your build to suit Bricklink, be aware that you can also look for alternative parts within the Bricklink catalogue. There are often minor variations in design, but LDD doesn’t differentiate between different versions of the same part (e.g. 1x2 tile with or without grooves). Also, some parts have more than one part number, sometimes because of a part being reissued or having some minor internal redesign. By exploring these differences in the catalogue you can sometimes find an alternative part which looks the same but in greater quantities and, therefore, at a lower price.

Basically, I use LDD as a design tool and a way of compiling a parts list, but I rarely stick faithfully to this list when making Bricklink orders.

[Paperinik77pk]

Yes, I was lucky since I used veeeery common parts . I have to use BL a bit, so I can discover all tricks. I think from now on I'll be often on that website 

[Paperinik77pk]

Hi all! Parts arrived - and yesterday I had the chance to build the big blue locomotive.

Since today was a really nice day, I prepared some track in our common garden and took some shots. I prepared also a video - pity it's only from outside , since I pressed the wrong button on the "driver's view" microcamera - so basically I turned it off instead of starting the recording . At least we spent a good afternoon with other neighbours and childrens!!!

The pictures you see are only for show purpose since the track, simply placed over grass, is hard to manage for such an heavy locomotive - it wobbles left and right and in some cases it falls on its side. Now I understand the importance to prepare a properly plain garden railway track. Pity I do not have my own garden...but who knows...

Creating some kind of track base (using wood for example) could help to solve the stability problem.

As you can see, there are some  differences from the red prototype and LDD projects:

• I kept the chain drive, but I used normal gears instead of yellow knob-gears. It drives more smoothly now. I increased the gear ratio a bit after some testing. No problems from chain drive for the moment.
• One of the bonnets was modified to accept IR receiver - which works quite fine. An S-Brick would be better, but for the moment I'll keep the IR solution.
• Side door handles were reinforced - they falled off easily - and this is not good in the garden "environment"
• There are no glasses on front and rear windows - the ones I received were basically no more transparent.
• It still is 2wd, I did not receive the chain parts yet. With two (old) red rubber traction bands things get better. In this photo the bands  are not pictured since I put them on after a while.

Now  it is time to figure out how to make wagons work properly - the R40 radius is reeeeeeally tight and the locomotive has a significant overhang when going around a standard Lego curve.

Hope you like it! Video coming soon!

Ciao!

Davide

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2018 by Paperinik77pk

[Sven J]

Very cute!

How do you want to couple the wagons? I see coupling plates beneath the buffers, but with the locomotive on track, it seems almost impossible to access them...