LEGODalekbuster523 Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 Seriously, I mean it. Too often now it seems like they're more interested in original ideas, whereas I couldn't care less about a LEGO maze or LEGO Exo-Suit. Sets based on TV and film are more interesting because we are familiar with them - sets like Agents of SHIELD: The Bus, for instance. I mean, just look at how great this build is: ...and the minifigures are great: If it's too big, then reduce the size. If there's too many minifigures, reduce the number of them. There's solutions to any potential problems this set might have.
xboxtravis7992 Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) There are a lot of reasons this set might not be approved to be honest: 1. It is based on a licensed property. Lego has probably already considered the possibility of making sets based on Agents of Shield. The characters of the series showed up in a DLC for the Lego Avengers 2 game. Rumors suggest that next year we will be getting a Coulson and Lola set. If those rumors are true, then a large set based on The Bus would be a conflict of interest. An example of conflict of interest occurred early on in Lego Cuusoo days, when the Modular Western Town was dismissed due to its similarity to the upcoming Lone Ranger theme. The Bus would be considered to be conflicting with the Lola set. 2. The Bus hasn't actually featured in the show for two years. It was destroyed by the second season. Since then the main location of the show has been the former SSR base converted into a SHIELD hideout. The Zephyr airplane replaced The Bus. While I think The Bus is more iconic than The Zephyr in my opinion, it just hasn't been in the show for a while. Not to mention the show has smaller airplanes such as Quinjets that could be more easily made into set form. 3. The concept model is rather bizarrely proportioned. I want a Lego version of The Bus and have considered MOCcing it, but a true minifig scale model will need at least a three foot wide wingspan and a three foot long fuselage to be realistic compared to the scale of the previously released Quinjets. Its just to big to be made into an official set, unless it became some sort of UCS thing. Edited October 15, 2016 by xboxtravis7992
LEGODalekbuster523 Posted October 15, 2016 Author Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, xboxtravis7992 said: There are a lot of reasons this set might not be approved to be honest: 1. It is based on a licensed property. Lego has probably already considered the possibility of making sets based on Agents of Shield. The characters of the series showed up in a DLC for the Lego Avengers 2 game. Rumors suggest that next year we will be getting a Coulson and Lola set. If those rumors are true, then a large set based on The Bus would be a conflict of interest. An example of conflict of interest occurred early on in Lego Cuusoo days, when the Modular Western Town was dismissed due to its similarity to the upcoming Lone Ranger theme. The Bus would be considered to be conflicting with the Lola set. 2. The Bus hasn't actually featured in the show for two years. It was destroyed by the second season. Since then the main location of the show has been the former SSR base converted into a SHIELD hideout. The Zephyr airplane replaced The Bus. While I think The Bus is more iconic than The Zephyr in my opinion, it just hasn't been in the show for a while. Not to mention the show has smaller airplanes such as Quinjets that could be more easily made into set form. 3. The concept model is rather bizarrely proportioned. I want a Lego version of The Bus and have considered MOCcing it, but a true minifig scale model will need at least a three foot wide wingspan and a three foot long fuselage to be realistic compared to the scale of the previously released Quinjets. Its just to big to be made into an official set, unless it became some sort of UCS thing. 1. I highly doubt LEGO would make an Agents of SHIELD set without fan pressure. LEGO Ideas is fan pressure, Lola wouldn't be if the rumours turned out to be true. It's not as big as the MCU movies they tend to focus on. 2. I don't see how that matters. Last year's Doctor Who set was based on 2013's Time of the Doctor. 3. Again, don't see how it matters. Just don't make it realistic.
Aanchir Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 Not sure what you mean about "The Bus" being an excellent build. The interior features are nice, but the exterior is pretty awkward and boxy. It's not even a very good likeness of the vehicle from the show, which has very different shaping and proportions and a conspicuous windscreen and SHIELD insignia on the top. It's certainly not a particularly authentic rendition of the vehicle in question. Also, even with it being license-based, it doesn't seem like it would have a strong market due to its sheer size. It's around the same size as the Helicarrier set, yet based on a subject that's nowhere near as iconic. It's easy to say "just reduce the size" or "just reduce the number of minifigures", but who knows how many of its supporters supported it because of its size or the number of minifigures? The more features of a LEGO Ideas project have to be eliminated, the greater the risk of alienating the very people who supported it in the first place. Furthermore, while the LEGO Ideas team does definitely care about original ideas, those are not coming at the expense of pop culture licenses. Around half of all LEGO Ideas sets to date have been pop culture based, and I've seen no sign of that changing. I understand that you're a fan of Agents of Shield. I also understand that you might not be a fan of all the other licenses obtained through LEGO Ideas. But basing all your future emotional investment in LEGO Ideas on the success or failure of one project, despite LEGO Ideas having already provided you with other sets and licenses you've loved, seems like overkill.
xboxtravis7992 Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Aanchir said: Not sure what you mean about "The Bus" being an excellent build. The interior features are nice, but the exterior is pretty awkward and boxy. It's not even a very good likeness of the vehicle from the show, which has very different shaping and proportions and a conspicuous windscreen and SHIELD insignia on the top. It's certainly not a particularly authentic rendition of the vehicle in question. Yes that was the main reason I don't think I supported the project. The vehicle from the show is furthermore based on a real vehicle, the C-17 Globemaster. Looking at the real life pictures of a C-17, a full scale minifig sized model would actual be about six feet long and six feet wide (about two meters by two meters). That is HUGE. So it could be B.S.'d a bit and shrunk a little bit to fit more proper Lego sets scale, but even a 3' by 3' model would be a massive Lego set. Anything smaller than 2'x2' with correct proportions would run the risk of having such a skinny fuselage that Lola wouldn't be able to fit inside it anymore. It wouldn't have any swooshability, and would need to be disassembled for transport as smaller segments. I think that issue is why the proportions of the Ideas model are so bizarre, I think the project creator, rather than address the proper scale decided to create a box with stub wings big enough to include Lola and the laboratory room, and pass it off as The Bus. The bizarre proportions frankly remind me of this toy my sister used to own, it doesn't really look good as a display item. I'm sorry but to be frank, this has a very slim chance of ever passing the review. I want The Bus in Lego form to, but it is a subject that deserves to be made as a large MOC, as it could never be properly captured in an official set. Edited October 15, 2016 by xboxtravis7992
LEGODalekbuster523 Posted October 15, 2016 Author Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Aanchir said: Not sure what you mean about "The Bus" being an excellent build. The interior features are nice, but the exterior is pretty awkward and boxy. It's not even a very good likeness of the vehicle from the show, which has very different shaping and proportions and a conspicuous windscreen and SHIELD insignia on the top. It's certainly not a particularly authentic rendition of the vehicle in question. Also, even with it being license-based, it doesn't seem like it would have a strong market due to its sheer size. It's around the same size as the Helicarrier set, yet based on a subject that's nowhere near as iconic. It's easy to say "just reduce the size" or "just reduce the number of minifigures", but who knows how many of its supporters supported it because of its size or the number of minifigures? The more features of a LEGO Ideas project have to be eliminated, the greater the risk of alienating the very people who supported it in the first place. Furthermore, while the LEGO Ideas team does definitely care about original ideas, those are not coming at the expense of pop culture licenses. Around half of all LEGO Ideas sets to date have been pop culture based, and I've seen no sign of that changing. I understand that you're a fan of Agents of Shield. I also understand that you might not be a fan of all the other licenses obtained through LEGO Ideas. But basing all your future emotional investment in LEGO Ideas on the success or failure of one project, despite LEGO Ideas having already provided you with other sets and licenses you've loved, seems like overkill. It looks accurate enough to me and it's a bit much to expect a set to be submitted with the SHIELD logo on the top. Does that piece even exist? As for the size and minifigures: well, look at the Doctor Who set. They increased the size there and included 11 and 12 instead of 10 and Rose. It was still the most successful LEGO Ideas set ever released by LEGO. 26 minutes ago, xboxtravis7992 said: Yes that was the main reason I don't think I supported the project. The vehicle from the show is furthermore based on a real vehicle, the C-17 Globemaster. Looking at the real life pictures of a C-17, a full scale minifig sized model would actual be about six feet long and six feet wide (about two meters by two meters). That is HUGE. So it could be B.S.'d a bit and shrunk a little bit to fit more proper Lego sets scale, but even a 3' by 3' model would be a massive Lego set. Anything smaller than 2'x2' with correct proportions would run the risk of having such a skinny fuselage that Lola wouldn't be able to fit inside it anymore. It wouldn't have any swooshability, and would need to be disassembled for transport as smaller segments. I think that issue is why the proportions of the Ideas model are so bizarre, I think the project creator, rather than address the proper scale decided to create a box with stub wings big enough to include Lola and the laboratory room, and pass it off as The Bus. The bizarre proportions frankly remind me of this toy my sister used to own, it doesn't really look good as a display item. I'm sorry but to be frank, this has a very slim chance of ever passing the review. I want The Bus in Lego form to, but it is a subject that deserves to be made as a large MOC, as it could never be properly captured in an official set. Who cares about 'swooshability' and transportation? Also: Lola could always be removed from the final set.
deraven Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said: It looks accurate enough to me and it's a bit much to expect a set to be submitted with the SHIELD logo on the top. Does that piece even exist? Personal opinion, I guess, but I do agree that it looks just "OK" if you're only looking at it for the interior play features... but for a set that would end up priced pretty high like this, the exterior look has to sell it as well. 1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said: As for the size and minifigures: well, look at the Doctor Who set. They increased the size there and included 11 and 12 instead of 10 and Rose. It was still the most successful LEGO Ideas set ever released by LEGO. Yes, but 2 factors come into play there: 1, it's still nowhere near the size and thus market price that this would require. We're talking about going from maybe $55 to $59 on the Doctor Who set, and this one would have to start nearer to the $200 range to even begin to capture it properly. 2, with Doctor Who, that's a property that's been around for half a century, and the TARDIS is iconic throughout the entire run of the show (regardless of the interior decoration or the Doctor or Companions that're present), so even with the interior and minifigs they chose, there's still huge appeal even if it's just for the TARDIS exterior model. I have to agree with the others when they say Agents of SHIELD just doesn't have the same fan base. I mean, I like it fine and I'm a big geek, but I wouldn't drop a couple hundred bucks on this set. 1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said: Who cares about 'swooshability' and transportation? Also: Lola could always be removed from the final set. Not trying to be snarky here, but: All the designers and most potential buyers would care about that. If it's supposed to be a play set, it needs to be easy to move and play with. If you're aiming at collectors who want to display it, then the exterior look isn't good enough. This particular design, while a great effort and looking like a lot of fun, just hits a middle ground that doesn't work for an official set. Look at the Ghostbusters Firehouse. That's huge and has a ton of detail and is in the same general range for pieces/price that this would need to be to be done reasonably well, and the folks that were willing to spend $350 on that set complain that it's still not big enough to properly and easily fit the Ecto 1 (sold separately, as you suggested with Lola) well. So, again, it would need be on a massive scale, would still have to make compromises, and has a smaller potential audience. I think what would work is something more the size and concept of the Ultra Agent's boat HQ or Ultracopter: focussed on play with lots of nice features and great minifigs, capturing the spirit of The Bus but not really accurate to what we see on the screen as far as scope and size.
x105Black Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 It's a decent MOC, but it's not a good Ideas set. Honestly, I'll agree with everyone here that says it doesn't really capture the source material properly (and couldn't without it being larger and much more expensive). So, if it is approved, then I no longer care about LEGO Ideas. Of course, it doesn't matter if either one of us no longer cares, we are only 2 customers among millions.
MAB Posted October 15, 2016 Posted October 15, 2016 Looks awful to me, a big black box with wings. I'm also in the camp of "no way".
Lego Otaku Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 Fan pressure or not, LEGO will not go for new licenses unless they are sure the sets will be profitable, will not conflict with something else, and will not cost LEGO a lot to get license.
Littleworlds Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 9 hours ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said: Too often now it seems like they're more interested in original ideas Yes. Thats what Lego Ideas is about.
LEGODalekbuster523 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Posted October 16, 2016 12 hours ago, Littleworlds said: Yes. Thats what Lego Ideas is about. I disagree, the best sets have been based on licensed properties.
Littleworlds Posted October 16, 2016 Posted October 16, 2016 1 hour ago, LEGODalekbuster523 said: I disagree, the best sets have been based on licensed properties. What is the "best" lies in the eye of the beholder. I think Lego ideas as a platform for fresh and new input is just a wonderful idea. And if you look at sets like the Exo Suit, the Research Lab, the birds and the recent Fishing Shop - it works and it doesn't needs a license for having a intereting and pretty cool set. When I got the Exo Suit I was more or less fresh out of my dark ages and really enjoyed the inventiveness of the build. So many parts used in so unusual ways. It is one of the greatest sets of all time to me and what makes it even better is that it was originally a MOC and not an in-house desgin Thats the spirit which makes Lego Ideas so good. Of course I don't mind licensed sets. Neither in Ideas nor in the regular themes. But they shift Lego a bit away from being a construction toy with countless possibilities to create something new into something more static and conventional (For example I doubt that many kids take the expensive licensed sets from Star Wars or super heroes apart and build something new from its pieces). From that perspective I wont call the licensed sets being the best Lego did, since they just serve the fans of a certain franchise. There are some excellent designs amongst them, but the non licensed sets are just as good. I do like licensed sets though and I do own a number of them by myself. From several franchises. But I very much enjoy the freedom Lego gives me to simply modify and recombine and reinterprete the sets I have. Also looking at the recent changes in the rules for Lego ideas submissions, whilst they are clearly not against licensed sets (the caterham and the beatles sets are a clear indicator for that), they are nevertheless quite conscious to support the inventiveness of the submitters and to have a good share of non licensed sets released too. Just look at the competition the Fishing Store did win against. Apart from that, the Bus doesn't seems to me like a especially intersting set in the first place. The helicarrier was something really special with a distinctive look. The Bus looks basically just like a beefed-up airliner. If its actually for the sake of the minifigs, well, they might have higher chances to get accepted by themselves than together with a huge black jet, if you ask me. Maybe as a diorama.
LEGODalekbuster523 Posted October 16, 2016 Author Posted October 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Littleworlds said: Apart from that, the Bus doesn't seems to me like a especially intersting set in the first place. The helicarrier was something really special with a distinctive look. The Bus looks basically just like a beefed-up airliner. I disagree. It may not be as interesting as the TARDIS or the Delorean but it has an extremely cool design IMO.
LucyCol Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 On 10/15/2016 at 3:42 PM, LEGODalekbuster523 said: Too often now it seems like they're more interested in original ideas, whereas I couldn't care less about a LEGO maze or LEGO Exo-Suit. Sets based on TV and film are more interesting because we are familiar with them - sets like Agents of SHIELD: Actually I think they are more interested in original ideas, sets based on TV and Film are relatively easy to do, and they have a building full of there own designers doing just that 5 days a week, the original idea behind 'Ideas' was to see what people could come up with that wasn't currently being done by Lego themselves. To me something that is an original idea has a lot more attraction than something based on existing theme.
Captain Nemo Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 I'm not really sure this loosing-argument thread is necessary...clearly LEGODalekbuster523 believes this set should be officially released and clearly many others do not. There's also clearly no attempt to be persuaded one way or the other. Basically I just see this as a premature-rant thread, considering we don't even know the latest review results yet. So I'm just gonna close this... In the meantime if anyone wishes to continue this discussion, the Lego Ideas thread is more than willing to accommodate it.
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