Studs in technic holes?

[ReplicaOfLife]

I'm working on a new project that requires bricks/plates connected by their studs to technic holes.

I know that connecting plates with more than one stud to more than one technic holes of the same brick/beam is considered illegal (something to do with the duress this puts on the pieces).

However, I found that LDD apparently only allows 1x1 plates to connect to technic brick holes - not even 1x1 bricks want to connect, and you also can't connect a 1x1 technic brick to any plate with more than one stud.

Is there any work around for this?

The only thing I came up with so far is putting 3 1x1 plates instead of a brick where I need them, and n 1x1 plates for every 1xn plate I want to connect to the technic bricks (since I intend to break this particular rule anyway).

Is there an easier way?

I use LDD to design my MOCs and get a parts list for bricklink, so having to come up with a way to convert tons of 1x1 plates back to bricks and plates doesn't seem that enticing...

[Calabar]

You can replace the connected three 1x1 plates with an unconnected 1x1 brick.

That means the brick will stay there, but it won't be considered connected from LDD.

I don't know about replacing n 1x1 plates with a 1xn plate. As technic holes have different pitch than studs, the result could be a collision error that avoid the plate to stay in place.

Try, and tell us if this works.

[Superkalle]

My understanding is that the TLG themselves only allow connecting a stud into a technic hole very rarely, and then only for decorative elements/purposes. I guess bricks are seen as more construction elements and not decoration, and hence why LDD only allows plates.

I don't know of any workaround that would allow you to directly attach a 1x1 brick to a technic hole. The connectivity logic of the technic hole prevents even scaffolding a 1x1 brick in place. Ldraw will off course allow this, but I guess that's not what you wanted to hear.

It feels you are onto the best solution already; to use three stacked 1x1 plates, and then when placing the order on bricklink dividing by three to get the correct number of bricks. If you are also using the 1x1 plate in that color for other purposes, a trick could be to use a special color for the stacked 1x1 plates, so you can distinguish between them and other places where you really want it to be a 1x1 plate (and naturally another color for when the plates are side by side). (see attached image)

EDIT: Not sure I follow your reply Calabar. 1x1 bricks will not scaffold in place no matter how you try (at least I have never succeeded). Also, 1xn bricks/plates do have the same nominal pitch as Technic holes. The problem is more likely that the pitch precision in the physcial brick may be off with a slight value from stud to stud and hole to hole, which would put large forces on the bricks (since there is no "wiggle room" in a technic hole) and make it very difficult to put the brick in place and take apart. But maybe that's what you meant?

[Calabar]

The idea of Superkalle is very good.

Use a "strange" colour (a colour that is not among them used in the building) for elements that will be replaced.

Once the MOC is concluded, use the "select by colour" tool to select all these bricks and move them outside the building.

Then attach the bricks on the back of plates you want to replace (in a single direction!!!), so that all the structure will be moved by a single brick measure.

Once all the bricks has been added, delete all the placeholder plates (ever using the select by colour tool and then the delete key), and move the new bricks inside the building. As relative positions are the same, the bricks will stay perfectly in place.

NOTE; in order to put the bricks back you have to move together with the bricks that you want to replace a "connected brick" that will provide the connection for the whole group (without a connection, you can't put it in place).

As the connection have to be easy to manage, I suggest you to use an extra brick adequately placed (for example a 1x1 brick on a corner of the baseplate, if any), that you will delete it at the end of the procedure.

[ReplicaOfLife]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys!

I don't know of any workaround that would allow you to directly attach a 1x1 brick to a technic hole. The connectivity logic of the technic hole prevents even scaffolding a 1x1 brick in place. Ldraw will off course allow this, but I guess that's not what you wanted to hear.

It feels you are onto the best solution already; to use three stacked 1x1 plates, and then when placing the order on bricklink dividing by three to get the correct number of bricks. If you are also using the 1x1 plate in that color for other purposes, a trick could be to use a special color for the stacked 1x1 plates, so you can distinguish between them and other places where you really want it to be a 1x1 plate (and naturally another color for when the plates are side by side). (see attached image)

I might look into LDD alternatives at some point. While I like using LDD simply because I'm used to it, it has it's downsides that continually bug me, one example being that it's really complicated to build at angles (getting the round shape of the tower of my Record Store was a total bitch - luckily, once I had it, it was copy/paste from there), or that some legal builds are impossible, or of course the anual labour required to generate a Bricklink XML from the LDD file...

On the other hand, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to stuff like that

I also thought about using a special color to mark the replacement plates. I do something similar with pieces that are completely hidden from view - they all are bright purple in my LDD files, signifying I can just use any color & condition I have on hand.

EDIT: Not sure I follow your reply Calabar. 1x1 bricks will not scaffold in place no matter how you try (at least I have never succeeded).

This indeed does not work, I just tried it to make sure.

[SylvainLS]

In LDD, you can’t put the top stud of a brick in a technic hole but you can put a side-stud (only 1x1 bricks though).

Also don’t forget that technic holes are 0.12 mm higher than side-studs. That is, the border of the 1x1 plate you connect to the technic brick by one of its holes is 0.12 mm higher than the top of the brick.

You theoretically can’t put a part on top of the brick that would also be above the plate. You can force the connection IRL, you can sometimes force LDD to accept such a connection, and it’s found in some official sets, but it’s wrong

(LDraw technic bricks are all wrong: they have their holes at the same height as side-studs.)

[supertruper1988]

Thanks for the quick replies, guys!

I might look into LDD alternatives at some point. While I like using LDD simply because I'm used to it, it has it's downsides that continually bug me, one example being that it's really complicated to build at angles (getting the round shape of the tower of my Record Store was a total bitch - luckily, once I had it, it was copy/paste from there), or that some legal builds are impossible, or of course the anual labour required to generate a Bricklink XML from the LDD file...

On the other hand, I'm a bit lazy when it comes to stuff like that

I also thought about using a special color to mark the replacement plates. I do something similar with pieces that are completely hidden from view - they all are bright purple in my LDD files, signifying I can just use any color & condition I have on hand.

This indeed does not work, I just tried it to make sure.

You can now upload your LXF files direct to BrickLink

[Lego Otaku]

LEGO set 1682 has a pair of 1x3 plates mounted into the side of 1x4 technic brick (shuttle's engine assembly, part of orbit maneuvering engines). It was legal in mid 80s but not anymore.

[Calabar]

Not sure I follow your reply Calabar. 1x1 bricks will not scaffold in place no matter how you try (at least I have never succeeded).

Certainly, infact I spoke about using "placeholder plates". The bricks will be placed later, and they will be not connected (but put in place).

The only brick used in the first stage is the "connected brick" placed for example in a corner of the baseplate whose goal is to provide the missing connections of other bricks of the group.

But maybe that's what you meant?

Exactly. And I'm not sure the strict tolerance could cause some collision problem in LDD.

[ReplicaOfLife]

You can now upload your LXF files direct to BrickLink

That sounds handy. Haven't tried the new BL yet

The bricks will be placed later, and they will be not connected (but put in place).

Still not sure I get what you mean with 'put in place'. LDD doesn't allow placing bricks with their studs inside technic holes, no matter how, or when.

[Calabar]

Still not sure I get what you mean with 'put in place'. LDD doesn't allow placing bricks with their studs inside technic holes, no matter how, or when.

You mean there is some kind of collision error?

I've not an available LDD installation to test it now.

EDIT: I found an usable LDD to make some test. It seems there is a collision problem, so the replacement is not possible with collisions enabled.

The attached file is the best (but from being satisfactory) result I could obtain, using a different type of scaffolding.

test_technic-snot.lxf

Edited September 4, 2016 by Calabar