mostlytechnic Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 I am town and I am telling the truth. As I said earlier, as I magically know what jluck's role is, you know I am at least a rolecop, and if I were scum and he was town I would have kept that information secret and killed him tonight. However, if I am town and he is scum (which I believe is the most likely explanation) everything makes sense. Lynch Frank today, and if he flips town lynch me tomorrow. I'm not worried though, I'm 99% sure he is the scum tracker. A good bit of my argument relies on him being scum because I'm town and the town wouldn't have both a tracker and a rolecop in such a small game. Well, that seems like quite an assumption. Your argument that he's scum is 100% based on thinking we couldn't have both. Why not? I can easily buy this game having a rolecop and a tracker, instead of an investigator. Neither role reveals alignment, so I'd argue neither is as powerful as investigator, so both could happen. I'm just worried that if you're wrong, we end up lynching BOTH of you. And that would kill us and give the ultimatios the win. I'm being very cautious this game since lynches pretty much have to be unamimous, so less to learn about alignment there, and we have few people to sacrifice to the learning process. I'm almost more inclined to have you both use your abilities again tonight and see what we can learn.
Actor Builder Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Is it possible that both Michael and Frank are lying? If they are scum working together, then when we lynch Frank, Michael looks like he's town. It could be a very complicated ploy. This is all conjecture, of course, I honestly have no idea what to make of the recent claims.
mediumsnowman Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Is it possible that both Michael and Frank are lying? If they are scum working together, then when we lynch Frank, Michael looks like he's town. It could be a very complicated ploy. Bussing a teammate would be an idiotic move in such a small game.
jluck Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Is it possible that both Michael and Frank are lying? If they are scum working together, then when we lynch Frank, Michael looks like he's town. It could be a very complicated ploy. This is all conjecture, of course, I honestly have no idea what to make of the recent claims. We aren't both lying because I'm not scum and he's likely not either. Bussing is a usual scum ploy in larger games on later days, but here it would be far too risky. I feel that at this point it's more likely that we are both town and this is just turning into a very bad day for town.
mediumsnowman Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 ...this is just turning into a very bad day for town. It's actually a very good day for town, since we caught a scummo!!
Khscarymovie4 Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 It's actually a very good day for town, since we caught a scummo!! You seem as if you know for a fact that he is scum. As some people have stated it is possible to have both role cop and tracker on the same team, but somehow you know for a fact that this is not the case. (The voice thing is getting annoying to put in every sentence so I'm just not going to do it anymore.)
mediumsnowman Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 You seem as if you know for a fact that he is scum. As some people have stated it is possible to have both role cop and tracker on the same team, but somehow you know for a fact that this is not the case. I've made it very clear I don't think that there would be both a tracker and rolecop for town. Plus, tracker can act as a soft rolecop, which makes sense for a small scum team to have. (The voice thing is getting annoying to put in every sentence so I'm just not going to do it anymore.)
Skull-Mark_Ladybug Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I've made it very clear I don't think that there would be both a tracker and rolecop for town. Plus, tracker can act as a soft rolecop, which makes sense for a small scum team to have. See, you say that in point 1 below, but then in point 5 you state that you investigated jluck to check if he was an exclusively pro-town role such as a cop. According to you it is extremely unlikely that the town has a role cop and a tracker. But you imply that it is possible for there to be a town role-cop and a cop? That seems even more unlikely to me. 1) I highly doubt the town (mafia in this case, forgive me if I refer to them by traditional names for clarity) would have both a rolecop and a tracker on their side in a game of only 11 players. I know I'm town, so that leaves jluck as scum. 4) The scum killed KotZ last night. You know who was the only vote for him yesterday? jluck. Perchance, as they would know KotZ is a fairly experienced player, and the scum wanted to try and get him lynched on Day 1. When that didn't work, they killed him. Not a strong case, but something to consider none the less. 5) Why did I check out jluck, of all people? He is the only one I can PM, and if he turned up as an exclusively pro-town role (ie vigilante, cop, etc.) we could start to form a town block. I also disagree with point 4. I think jluck voted against KotZ for a good reason (him wasting his vote). The scum trying to get KotZ lynched day one seems to be a pretty big stretch. It would be easier to just kill him off at night rather than publicly voting for him.
Forresto Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Heres my thing if we were to hypothetically lynch (jluck) and it turns out hes a villager it would take us an additional day to lynch (mediumsnowman). In that time the ultimatio could take out another villager so by the next vote we would be down two people. Then the voting block needed to vote someone out would be five? If there are three or two ultimatio (is that the number in these size games?) they would have significantly more power. Do we take the risk and go ahead and lynch (jluck) on the offchance (mediumsnowman) is telling the truth? I honestly dont think (mediumsnowman) would be so stupid as to wish to pin a target on his back by stating himself to be a rolecop or tracker if he was not. If (mediumsnowman) is an ultimatio planting the seeds of chaos and destruction amongst us theres only one way to find out for sure. This may be stupid, i may be really tired from a long day of touring in the east coast heat but im going to take a chance... Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck) *sorry I will use character names next post. Im on my cellphone touring my visiting british friends around my city and we're all just finally taking a serious break.
Tariq j Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I've made it very clear I don't think that there would be both a tracker and rolecop for town. Plus, tracker can act as a soft rolecop, which makes sense for a small scum team to have. I think over thought this and you're both town. Frank voting for KotZ doesn't really mean that much. Just because a player votes for someone it doesn't mean that of they die the next day it's that player who killed them. Plus, as others have said It's not too out of the question for a tracker and a role cop to be in the same alignment. I'm sure its happened before in the past. The tracker can see who someone targeted, whilst the rolecop can see alignments, so it kind of makes sense to have them on the same team working together.
mostlytechnic Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 I've made it very clear I don't think that there would be both a tracker and rolecop for town. Plus, tracker can act as a soft rolecop, which makes sense for a small scum team to have. But again, you're asking us all to lynch a PR just based on that assumption. Yep, he could be a scum tracker. They're common enough. But he could just as easily be a town tracker, since I don't at all think that having both rolecop and tracker is overpowered for a small game, assuming they're the only investigative PRs. I'm looking at it this way - since you've both been outed as PRs, let's use those abilities and see if either of you is lying. And use those abilities to find for-sure ultimatios. Or heck, block him if you want. But the huge risk is that if you're wrong, we'd be lynching TWO town PRs at the same time the scum have two free days to pick off more of us, and we almost certainly lose.
Umbra-Manis Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Heres my thing if we were to hypothetically lynch (jluck) and it turns out hes a villager it would take us an additional day to lynch (mediumsnowman). In that time the ultimatio could take out another villager so by the next vote we would be down two people. Then the voting block needed to vote someone out would be five? If there are three or two ultimatio (is that the number in these size games?) they would have significantly more power. Do we take the risk and go ahead and lynch (jluck) on the offchance (mediumsnowman) is telling the truth? I honestly dont think (mediumsnowman) would be so stupid as to wish to pin a target on his back by stating himself to be a rolecop or tracker if he was not. If (mediumsnowman) is an ultimatio planting the seeds of chaos and destruction amongst us theres only one way to find out for sure. I have to agree that this is our best bet for lynching, unless we go in opposite order and lynch Michael Johnson first. We definitely don't gain anything by letting them both go free, besides having the town PR (who I believe to be Michael Johnson) killed in the night. Therefore, Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck)
JackJonespaw Posted June 9, 2016 Author Posted June 9, 2016 Hello! 4 Votes for Frank Johnson (jluck) - mediumsnowman, Rider Raider, Forresto, Umbra-Manis With 10 players, you need a 2/3 majority of 7 to lynch. You have 24 hours left.
jluck Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Here's the thing, if you lynch me today, I'll come up town tomorrow, you'll be a power role short, then you'll debate about the snowman all day tomorrow, likely Lynching him, who could also be town. By day 4, you'll have lynched 2 power roles and not discussed a single other option. It's not a good path were on. I'll gladly track whoever you want tonight to verify who I am and help the town, or stay home if you're worried. Heres my thing if we were to hypothetically lynch (jluck) and it turns out hes a villager it would take us an additional day to lynch (mediumsnowman). In that time the ultimatio could take out another villager so by the next vote we would be down two people. Then the voting block needed to vote someone out would be five? If there are three or two ultimatio (is that the number in these size games?) they would have significantly more power. Do we take the risk and go ahead and lynch (jluck) on the offchance (mediumsnowman) is telling the truth? I honestly dont think (mediumsnowman) would be so stupid as to wish to pin a target on his back by stating himself to be a rolecop or tracker if he was not. If (mediumsnowman) is an ultimatio planting the seeds of chaos and destruction amongst us theres only one way to find out for sure. This may be stupid, i may be really tired from a long day of touring in the east coast heat but im going to take a chance... Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck) *sorry I will use character names next post. Im on my cellphone touring my visiting british friends around my city and we're all just finally taking a serious break. I agree with most all this...except the vote.
mediumsnowman Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Frank is simply trying to buy time. This is such a small game that one extra day is all the scum needs. For a shot at victory, we need to lynch him today.
Tariq j Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 Frank is simply trying to buy time. This is such a small game that one extra day is all the scum needs. For a shot at victory, we need to lynch him today. Yes, but then what are the odds of You both being town? I mean like you said, this is a small game, two PR's being lost, which at this point could happen is a big blow to the town. I'm not saying I don't believe you but, this whole theory is relying on a lot of it's and maybe's there's no concrete evidence. And surely a much wiser thing to do would be too wait and see what jluck says and does in thread, analyse what he says, and then make your judgement. As oppose to just announcing a PR in thread.
mediumsnowman Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Yes, but then what are the odds of You both being town? I mean like you said, this is a small game, two PR's being lost, which at this point could happen is a big blow to the town. I'm not saying I don't believe you but, this whole theory is relying on a lot of it's and maybe's there's no concrete evidence. And surely a much wiser thing to do would be too wait and see what jluck says and does in thread, analyse what he says, and then make your judgement. As oppose to just announcing a PR in thread. The odds are very very very small that we are both town. Rolecop and tracker in this game simply doesn't make sense. I spent several hours thinking over this after I recieved my result, and the most likely explanation is that Frank is scum. What would the purpose of giving him another night to do his scummy deeds? Everyone knows he's a tracker, he even confirmed it himself! I'd even go so far as to say at least one or two of the people who don't want to lynch Frank today (MT, MacK, Actor, and Tariq) are scum, since they know we only need 3 dissenters to avoid another lynch. Darn typos. The bane of my existence. It should be received. I before E except after C!!
Actor Builder Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 I have neither confirmed nor denied my support in lynching anyone today. I have not voted yet because I have been working. As it is, I know I'll have to vote before I go to work in the morning, or I'll miss my chance, due to the time the day ends. This makes it tricky for me, as I'll miss some discussion. Please remember this tomorrow as we discuss why people voted for who. I will not have time to change my vote after I make one tonight.
Actor Builder Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Alright, for now, unless I come back today and rethink everything and come up with a different result... Vote: Frank The Tank (jluck) I'm not at all confident in this decision. I don't know. However, I'm joining the current majority on this for the sake of time. If I vote on someone else, or not at all, and we ended up one vote short of the right decision, I would feel pretty bad. So I'm the fifth vote for Frank. Whoever the final decision-making voters are, I hope you do the right thing, whatever that is. Just in case nicknames are not official votes: Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck)
Skull-Mark_Ladybug Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 The odds are very very very small that we are both town. Rolecop and tracker in this game simply doesn't make sense. I spent several hours thinking over this after I recieved my result, and the most likely explanation is that Frank is scum. What would the purpose of giving him another night to do his scummy deeds? Everyone knows he's a tracker, he even confirmed it himself! I'd even go so far as to say at least one or two of the people who don't want to lynch Frank today (MT, MacK, Actor, and Tariq) are scum, since they know we only need 3 dissenters to avoid another lynch. Darn typos. The bane of my existence. It should be received. I before E except after C!! Would you have believed that the town could have a role cop and a cop? In your initial post today you said that you were checking Frank to see if he was either a cop or vig. Did you and Frank at least talk in private about your roles before you presented your case to the public? If the 2 of you end up both being town then you've screwed up royally... I'd even go so far at to say at least one or two of the people who do want to lynch Frank today are scum, since if gives them the opportunity to either knock off a townie (If Frank is town), or to avoid suspicion for not voting off their team mate (If Frank is scum).
jluck Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Alright, for now, unless I come back today and rethink everything and come up with a different result... Vote: Frank The Tank (jluck) I'm not at all confident in this decision. I don't know. However, I'm joining the current majority on this for the sake of time. If I vote on someone else, or not at all, and we ended up one vote short of the right decision, I would feel pretty bad. So I'm the fifth vote for Frank. Whoever the final decision-making voters are, I hope you do the right thing, whatever that is. Just in case nicknames are not official votes: Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck) Ok, I can't go through without voting, so I'll vote:Adone Inzerillo (Actor Builder) I don't like the way he's acting so skeptical of his own vote...like he knows that I'll turn out to be town. Scum like to hide on the back end of a band wagon and hedge their vote by saying things like "I'm not at all confident in my decision". I think the reason you aren't confident is you know I'll be revealed as town and then you can say "see, I thought you all were wrong!". I've seen it done in many games, heck I've done it too! Remember these words if I die today or tonight. Would you have believed that the town could have a role cop and a cop? In your initial post today you said that you were checking Frank to see if he was either a cop or vig. Did you and Frank at least talk in private about your roles before you presented your case to the public? If the 2 of you end up both being town then you've screwed up royally... I'd even go so far at to say at least one or two of the people who do want to lynch Frank today are scum, since if gives them the opportunity to either knock off a townie (If Frank is town), or to avoid suspicion for not voting off their team mate (If Frank is scum). No, we did not discuss roles before this went public. He asked my if i knew anything about the death last night in our PM and I said no, and that I thought he was fishing to see if I was the vig. But it's an almost numerical certainty that there's at least one scum voting for me.
Umbra-Manis Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 At the time of this post we're 2 votes away and it's ~14 hours til the end of the day. We know where both Americans stand on this matter, I am the only Russian, 2 Italians are for it one against, the Mexicans are split, and both of our Japanese comrades have voiced oppositions. One of the primary oppositions voiced has been the reasoning that there can't be a town tracker and rolecop. This reasoning is definitely flawed (And I had hoped to avoid this) but simply because no-one has considered the possibility of each team having a tracker. I'm the town Tracker. Both Johnsons' posts confirm that they aren't lying about their role, and at this point in the day, it's the time to take a chance and lynch someone, see who dies in the night and go from there. We don't have enough time to get 7 votes switched, so I ask 2 of the non voters to take a chance and get us some progress in this game.
Skull-Mark_Ladybug Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 -snip- No, we did not discuss roles before this went public. He asked my if i knew anything about the death last night in our PM and I said no, and that I thought he was fishing to see if I was the vig. But it's an almost numerical certainty that there's at least one scum voting for me. Michael, why did you not try to at least communicate to Frank in private before the big reveal? You could have at tried to verify Frank's alignment, and if his responses led you to believe that he was scum it would then be more appropriate to reveal your roles. It seems that while I was composing my thoughts, our Russian comrade has revealed more. I will hence: Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck)
Actor Builder Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 Ok, I can't go through without voting, so I'll vote:Adone Inzerillo (Actor Builder) Alright, now I am fairly confident. Thanks for boosting my morale in a roundabout way. Frank Johnson for Lynch, 2016.
Khscarymovie4 Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 the Mexicans are split INot really, I was just pointing out the possibility of both a role cop and tracker on the same team. I have been thinking this over for awhile, I think we need a lynch today, and were only one vote away from one. So in that case Vote: Frank Johnson (jluck)
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